Reflections 4 years later: When I saw the 2nd Jet hit Tower 2, I knew

[mopaul]

i watched it live, that morning of sept. 11th, 2001, and my first reaction sitting alone at my monitor was, 'bush did this'.

for whatever reasons, after all the investigations and official stories and conclusions, i have not changed my mind.

[ck4829]

1. I used to believe the 'official story'

Used to anyway...

[ComerPerro]

2. Mine was similar, although, to be honest, it wasn't my *first* thought

my first thought was something incoherent, like "holy fucking shit".

But once that passed, after about half an hour, and I could think rationally, I immediately realized that, if nothing else, this disaster I was witnessing would be exactly what Bush needed, and I thought about how convenient it was for him.

But I couldn't discuss my thoughts with anyone.

[Nay]

43. My exact reaction as well. And I couldn't talk about it either, because

I was watching the TV at work among a bunch of RWers. I remember thinking, "how fucking convenient for Bush" among other things. Then, days later as the 7 minutes of cluelessness, My Pet Goat, flying to Nebraska happened with Bush, I felt like 9/11 was going to sink him because of his obvious cluelessness. I was wrong about that.

[ComerPerro]

44. I told my roommate that very afternoon

that we would start some war on an unseen enemy, probably go after Iraq and Iran, and Bush would be able to be a "war president", because that was gonna be the only chance in hell he would have of any kind of claim to legitimacy.

My friends response was something like: "Thats impossible. He can't just start some unending war and expect people to fall for it"

[ima_sinnic]

3. I had the exact same reaction--maybe not instantaneous, but

very shortly thereafter (on edit: remembering mr sinnic saying "bush did that" a little later on 9/11 and knowing he was right)

And the first time the word "Iraq" passed his vampire lips after 9/11, I knew he was going to convince the country that attacking Iraq was the only possible answer to 9/11. How anyone could not have seen through his bullcrap then is beyond me.

[willing dwarf]

4. Kick off event

As soon as I heard about the dirst plane, I was on the phone to my husband telling him I wanted to leave the country. Little did I know it would lead to 4 years of constant agression from the US.

[tallahasseedem]

30. Welcome to DU!!!!

:hi: Glad you could join us.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

5. I didn't realize it that quickly. It took me a few months later when

literally out of nowhere, sitting at my computer, the thought came to me, an epiphany. And with minutes of surfing the web I knew it was true.

BTW... It was one of the most beautiful mornings I will ever remember. I was watching the Today Show when it cut into local NY news reporting that a plane crashed into Tower One. I remember a person on the street who had called News4NY up who thought it was a small plane. Needless to say, I didn't turn off the TV and saw the Flight 175 hit Tower Two and all the events that unfolded that day.

My older son was home ill from school, and I told him these were deliberate attacks. We called my ex-husband who works in midtown, and he was out of the office for a meeting. We had no idea where. Luckily, when he got back to us, he was in midtown at the time. He saw and smelt the smoke.

About an hour after they called all planes out of the skies, my son and I heard a plane outside (I live 50 due north of NYC) and that plane was heading south towards Manhattan. I thought it, my son said it, where's Indian Point from here mom (nuclear power plant). I told him southwest, then we saw the plane veer to the east and we both let out our breaths. For months later, every time we heard a plane, we either went out on the deck, or looked out the window.

[oddtext]

6. my reaction was almost like "yep, exactly"

in fact, after we dissed the UN commission on race/human rights, left the int'l conventions for small arms, bioweapons and money laundering i actually felt that something like that was brewing behind the scenes. bush was doing poorly in polling; i predicted that these assholes would start a war to distract from all the negative attention. i predicted afghanistan. when it came to pass a friend began to call me toddstrodamus. hee hee.

i'm hoping that many see the obvious pattern now 9/11-Iraq-Katrina. disaster-disaster-disaster -- who could have forseen it?

:nuke:

[Dem Agog]

7. At first I could not believe Bush did that...

Then when the yellowcake uranium falsehood sprung to life, my worst fears were realized.

I have never liked him one whit, but when I found out he lied in that SOTU address, that's when my worst fears were realized.

I now believe at the very least in the LIHOP theory of 9/11 and I almost believe in the MIHOP theory.

I also believe LIHOP was the rule of the day after Katrina. He didn't let the "hurricane" happen of course, but there was some LIHOP/MIHOP going on in the levee failures and failures in response.

[nookiemonster]

8. Flight 93 did it for me.

I never believed the "Let's Roll" bullshit. I will go to my grave believing that the aircraft was downed by our military.

The scary thing is, it was justifiable at the time. Why the fuck can't they just fess up to it? Hell, Cheney authorized it.

[peacebuzzard]

13. "Lets Roll" was actually in reference to a service cart,

that the hijacked passengers were using as a weapon to ram up to the front of the cabin.
There are many censored portions of the 9/11 report that will not be known for years, however, the "lets roll" was this scenario.

[mopaul]

14. NONE of the black boxes were ever found from that day

what are the odds of three black boxes going missing on the same day? they find these things two miles below the sea for god's sake.

[oblivious]

9. I scoffed at the idea that a govt would do such a thing to its own people.

Turns out I didn't know much about history.

Turns out I was pretty gullible.

What an education I've had since then.

[havocmom]

20. Most folks believe those governing them have values similar to their own.

Evil people count on that trait of the masses to assume all are guided by the principles they personally live by. Most assume the limits and inhibitions they have are universal. That little blind spot allows us to function in a world that is sometimes quite horrible.

[Jeanette in FL]

10. Similar reaction

I said either they did it or heads will roll. Well since no heads rolled left me with the no other choice.

[Solly Mack]

11. I must be truly callous because I worried about the aftermath

and what Bush would do to the country using the events as an excuse

I thought about the people dying...and I cursed Bush for it.

But to be honest, it was the "now what?" that worried me more.

[atomic-fly]

12. my first thought was...

I woke my brother up in New Mexico as this was going on.
We discussed who would do it. He mentioned that Bin Laden was
responsible(news story), but I immediately thought of Timothy Mc Veigh
and OK city bombing. For some reason I thought there was a connection.
I later dismissed this, but after a few years it seems there may have been some connections.
I'm still on the fence with this whole issue, but I am leaning towards MIHOP.
Look up Operations Northwoods.

[Solly Mack]

23. I got to DU that morning and there was a

note from the Admins. on how now is not the time to attack Bush - so I stayed away from DU for a few days because:

I respect the admins

and

Because I thought it was the time to attack Bush and attack Bush harshly. I knew he would come after Americans and use the WTC as an excuse. I didn't stand with Bush on September 11 (or any day before or after) I didn't stand with those crying for revenge.(and still don't) I didn't stand with those supporting war for a criminal act. (and still don't) I wondered what Bush had to do with it all and I knew Americans were about to lose civil rights.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. Thank you Solly for sharing this. I recently did a search in the DU

archives for posts made on 9/11 to get a feeling of what members felt then, and couldn't find anything earlier than 2002. :hi:

[DrDebug]

72. The older posts exists, but they are on a different system

This is the first 9/11 forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?forum=DCForumID43&az=list&archive=yes

And this is General Discussion on 9/11, but there was an outage for most of the day:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID35&mm=3880&archive=yes

hephra (35840 posts)
Sep-11-01, 09:28 AM (ET)

GO TO BREAKING NEWS NOW!!

TERRORIST ATTACK ON TRADE TOWERS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4274&forum=DCForumID35&archive=yes

[hardrainfallin]

15. On 9/11, I said

"Whether they were *behind* it or not, I don't know, but, regardless, there will be corks popping in the WH basement tonight."

I got my ass slammed on "liberal message boards" (not this one obviously, since I am new here.) for being "un-patriotic". Yeah, well.

Considering the "conspiracy theory" paranoia, I've always just thought it was strategically wiser to not even push the issue, so it's not a "theory" I tend to support or propound, but it is a very real and very deep suspicion ....

[tallahasseedem]

31. Welcome to DU!!!!

:hi: It certainly is great to see so many new members.

[peacebuzzard]

16. Today was actually the end of our era, I flew from Newark @ 9 am 9/10,

and made several stops and connections before barely missing my last flight home, arriving home at midnight, 8 hours before the world would change.

[havocmom]

17. My gut reaction too. But I work hard to make my brain the lead organ

in my life. When the news that the 'passports had been found' yet the black box was likely vaporized, my brain told my gut "Yeah, I'm in with ya now'.

Look who gains then tell me it's time for my foil bonnet. HA!

[nookiemonster]

22. You bet! Who benefits?

I really want to know what was in those 22 redacted pages.

It has to be some pretty damning info.

[havocmom]

24. One of the owners of the towers recently on TV commenting that they never

fully reached their economic potential and they were looking to re-develope the site prior to 9-11. Gee, think it would have been hard to talk him into going along with the plan for the 'new Pearl Harbor'?

And does anybody fully understand why that third building came down?

[pretzel4gore]

18. so obviously staged by 'hollywood'

or rather the bushevik branch of hollywood.....i remember thinking that the plane hitting the pentagon destroyed the innocence and resulting honourable outrage that existed up till then; by attacking the pentagon too, the organizers put lipstick on a pig, or rather tossed their pig in with the sweet lil baby victim....
remember, the US spends 1/2 the entire planet's military budget, so the pig need some inclusion, or maybe 911 wrath would INCLUDE the pig!
all you blind people please say 'i see...'

[zanne]

19. That first day, I thought...

Bush was toast. After all, he was the president, right? Ultimately, he's responsible for our national security, right? I was so naive back then I didn't imagine he would be able to exploit it so much.

[Swede]

21. My brother phoned me to wake me up when the first plane hit

CNN where speculating it was a private jet off course. Then the second plane came in as I watched.

[MellowOne]

25. As a former flight attendant

My first reaction was "it's an inside job." Other airline personnel I know, including pilots, agree. There's no way four hijacked planes would be allowed be fly out of control without NORAD intervention.

Edit: can't type this morning

[flyarm]

47. as a flight attendant who retired after 9/11 for one of the airlines

involved on 9/11..i have no doubt it was an inside job..not one doubt!!

and i know of no pilots who do not believe it was an inside job..

we just can not talk about it..

but i will tell you this...i was invited last october to a round table with BOB KERRY ..one of the commissioners...to univ of tampa.. i was one of 15 people allowed to ask questions..my hubby was also one of the 15...and i aksed 3 questions of mr kerry..inside questions that only pilots and f/a's would know about ..and i trained (!!) my hubby to ask 2 questions because i knew i would get only so much time to ask questions...

well BOB KERRY..did not answer one of my questions..nor did he answer my husband...

and i took my graduation picture getting my wings in 1970 with me..with CR SMITH in the picture..he was the founder of American Airlines...and i told BOB KERRY holding up the picture 1 foot from mr kerrys face..that the most important thing to CR SMITH was the safety of his crew, and the safety of his passengers...and i told BOB KERRY with the bullshit those commissioners put in that report..CR SMITH was rolling over in his grave , and would be awaiting the commissioners on the 'other side" and he would make them pay for their lies and cover up!

Mr Bob Kerry was sick white when i got through with him...then he had to deal with my husband who went at him hard as well...Bob Kerry couldn't get out of that room quick enough!!
and i was sitting the enitre time inches from him!! he had to look at me the entire time...and i asked the first questions in a room full of professors and phd's from univ of tampa!
i made him as uncomfortable as i possible could...

and i tell you ..he did not answer one of my questions nor none of my husbands!

i was 2001 flight attendant of the year for my airline in the ny base!

and i served with the union many years ago..

i know without a shadow of a doubt...it was an inside job!

not one doubt!
i have not had one doubt since day one!

fly

[pretzel4gore]

66. but why would bob kerry care?

your story is amazing. i hope you write it up and post it somewhere... my question about bob kerry is: why would he want to cover up the 911 fiasco-it being an inside job staged as part of the 2000 'coup' (cuz that's what it was) should cause bob kerry to condemn bush and the criminals, and call for demonstrations outside congress or something, unless bob kerry was complicit somehow.
>i want to save your post for use to send to local media who playact stupid (hey goofycool!) and pretend the history is written and osama yo mama hijacked them 4 jets all by hisself and crashed them etc...all this from a cave aka 'hidey hole' he shared with his buddy saddam ...prez bush top gun was trying to stop the hijackings between attending his duty reading pet goat in junior kindygarten and flying to new york to save the day but goddam bill jeff clinton refused to put gas in the f16!...that dirty bastard clinton!
like henry ford said, history is bunk....

[MellowOne]

68. That's amazing

I quit in May, a few months before 9/11. Since that day, I've gathered a laundy-list of reasons why it was an inside job. I'm sure you know those reasons as well as I do.

[hang a left]

26. I bought the official story at first.

It took me about a year. Then I read everything I could get my hands on. The biggest awakening I have ever had was when I came to the conclusion that elements within our military and government planned, prepared for, and executed the murders on September 11, 2001.

I haven't been the same since.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. Although it took me a few months to realize it was an inside job, I never

bought the original story from day 1. All of the "facts" were coming in rapidly, suspiciously and my BS detector was going full force. I was just too traumatized to take that to the next level.

[Flying Dream Blues]

55. Exactly my experience.

I couldn't understand how they already knew it was Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, and as a one-time New Yorker, I knew that there was a very tight airspace watch over the city. It was common knowledge that you would quickly be looking down the nose of an airforce jet if you came anywhere close to the skyline and especially the WTC. So I kept wondering..."where the heck is NORAD??" that day.

The low numbers on the flights were also strange, and the fact that some people had been warned not to fly that day. The way the buildings fell also struck a false note...one of them, maybe, but both?? And falling so cleanly?

Like you, it took me quite awhile to allow my gut misgivings (and the facts that continued to emerge and cast doubt on the official story) to transcend my core belief that my country would not LIHOP, much less MIHOP.

As another poster said, once that epiphany happened, I was never the same again. Sometimes I wish I could go back to that time; knowing is not only difficult but brings responsibility.

[JohnyCanuck]

27. Anyone here speak Dutch? (TweeVandaag examines 9/11)

Dutch TV news program examines Meacher and Von Bulow allegations:

Michael Meacher is a former British environment minister and Andreas Von Bulow is a former German parliamentarian who served on a parliamentary commission overseeing the German secret service. Both have come out and publicly rejected the official 911 explanation and say it doesn't hold water and they believe there was likely to have been some inside involvement at some level from within the US government.

In this Dutch TV news show Meacher and Von Bulow are allowed to state their positions and explain why they don't believe the official story. Among other things, Meacher mentions the PNAC plans for US hegemony and their document Rebuilding America's Defenses as a factor in explaining why some people in the US might have an ulterior motive in allowing the 911 attacks to succeed. He also brings up the lack of US fighter response etc. The show is in Dutch but Meacher and Von Bulow explain their position in English and German respectively with Dutch subtitles.

Here's a little bit about the show

'TweeVandaag' (Channel 2 Today) is a daily current affairs' show broadcast on Nederland 2.
video

The show was first screened in 1993 and is produced by TROS and AVRO: two of the broadcasters which make up Netherlands' independent public broadcasting corporation. 'TweeVandaag' is non commercial and does not broadcast sponsored reports.

'TweeVandaag' is screened from Monday through Saturday from 18.25 – 19.05 and draws a daily audience of some 850,000 viewers. It has a market share of 20 %, and ranks among the most important current affairs' shows on Dutch TV.

http://www.2vandaag.nl/index.php?module=PX_Story&func=view&cid=17

Here's the link for the TweeVandaag show with Meacher and Von Bulow.

http://www.2vandaag.nl/index.php?module=PX_Story&func=view&cid=2&sid=29834#

Click on the link that says video to view the program (it's in Dutch but Meacher and Von Bulow speak in English and German).

Here's a link to an article in The Guardian by Michael Meacher from Sept 2003.

This War on Terrorism is Bogus

First, it is clear the US authorities did little or nothing to pre-empt the events of 9/11. It is known that at least 11 countries provided advance warning to the US of the 9/11 attacks. Two senior Mossad experts were sent to Washington in August 2001 to alert the CIA and FBI to a cell of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation (Daily Telegraph, September 16 2001). The list they provided included the names of four of the 9/11 hijackers, none of whom was arrested.

It had been known as early as 1996 that there were plans to hit Washington targets with aeroplanes. Then in 1999 a US national intelligence council report noted that "al-Qaida suicide bombers could crash-land an aircraft packed with high explosives into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the CIA, or the White House".

Fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers obtained their visas in Saudi Arabia. Michael Springman, the former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, has stated that since 1987 the CIA had been illicitly issuing visas to unqualified applicants from the Middle East and bringing them to the US for training in terrorism for the Afghan war in collaboration with Bin Laden (BBC, November 6 2001). It seems this operation continued after the Afghan war for other purposes. It is also reported that five of the hijackers received training at secure US military installations in the 1990s (Newsweek, September 15 2001).

Instructive leads prior to 9/11 were not followed up. French Moroccan flight student Zacarias Moussaoui (now thought to be the 20th hijacker) was arrested in August 2001 after an instructor reported he showed a suspicious interest in learning how to steer large airliners. When US agents learned from French intelligence he had radical Islamist ties, they sought a warrant to search his computer, which contained clues to the September 11 mission (Times, November 3 2001). But they were turned down by the FBI. One agent wrote, a month before 9/11, that Moussaoui might be planning to crash into the Twin Towers (Newsweek, May 20 2002).

This War on Terrorism is Bogus

[leesa]

28. The moment they found the intact passport of one of the alleged hijackers

I knew our government had done it.

[tallahasseedem]

32. Isnt it ridiculous...

that they "found" a passport but no black boxes?

[flyarm]

49. not only ridiculous, but preposterous!

Atta was supposedly in the cockpit..he was supposedly sitting in first class for take off..what part of that plane entered the building first??

people have not asked the simple questions..i have gone out for almost two years speaking to groups about that day and the crashes..and i keep saying over and over again..ask the simple questions..

its all really very simple...

in most crashes who usually dies first??

what hits first??

does anyone believe that a plane hitting a solid object ( building) that anything in that first section that hit would survive??

security precludes me from pointing every fact out..but simple logic would lead one to understand the possibility of the white house story is impossible!

impossible , improbable..and absolutely preposterous!

there are certain places on a plane that are weaker than others..and i assure you if anything were to be found from any of those planes ..it would have been flight crews stuff found..but that is also preposterous!

look up payne stewards plane that decompressioned...and look at the response time of norad! in east jabip! not the ny corridor!

look at egypt air with a pilot deliberately trying to nose dive crash that plane..see what the computerized plane did even with the auto pilot turned off! ( that was a 767..but compare to flt 93 it was a 757 but they had the same computers!) couldn't happen the way this white house and commissioners said..it was all a cover up! and it was a white house complicit with 9/11!

and look at the temp jet fuel burns at..and what it takes to melt that steel in the wtc.....look how many steel structure buildings have collapsed in history?? from fire!!...

didn't happen the way you were lied to about!!

fly

edited for spelling

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

61. They actually did find 3 black boxes and it hasn't been publicized.

Rescue workers found them.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410B.html

[flyarm]

62. the families of flt 93 heard the voices on the black boxes..

but how much they heard is only known by them as they had to sign papers saying they would not disclose what they heard!

fly

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

63. The extent of their blackmail is shameless! nt

[tallahasseedem]

29. I did too...

I actually felt guilty and silly at the time. I certainly dont feel that way now.

[RandomKoolzip]

33. What was really spooky for me about 9/11/01 was.... (story)

The sunday before (9/9/01), I was working at a restuarant in Nashville, and my boss claimed to work for US Special Forces. Since he had a reputation as a pathological liar, we all listened to his stories about Special Forces training with skeptical ears.

That sunday, my boss and I and a coworker had a strange conversation.

"What we need in this country is another war. Something to boost the economy," said my boss.

My boss, Mr. Special Forces, was an admitted conservative, and he knew I was a liberal, so I guessed he was trying to get my goat. I smiled and played along.

"Oh yeah?" I said. "Who should we go to war with this time? China?"

"Islam" was his reply. "We should attack the middle east...Iraq or Iran or Syria. The country needs to be unified, and all those war machines being built will help the economy. The US is a Christian nation, and if we sell it as a war against Islam, America will back it up."

"But we can't just attack some country unprovoked. That's insane."

He gave me a funny look and said, "Something's gonna happen soon. Maybe Israel will get nuked, maybe it'll happen on US soil."

My coworker, who was also a liberal, was chuckling and smirking skeptically. The whole thing sounded stupid. It was a slow work night, as sundays usually were, and conversations like this happened all the time. It was a way of amusing ourselves in the face of torpor.

I forgot about it until the following tuesday.

This whole thing still scares me a little bit, although I'm sure it was a coincidence.

[linazelle]

35. I knew something was terribly wrong--but I was clueless about BUSH

As I drove to work I heard that the second plane hit. When I got to work, all of my coworkers were huddled around radios or finding TVs. We all were in shock. We had to have our car trunks searched before leaving the building parking lot and when entering for the rest of the week.

I REMEMBER WONDERING WHERE BUSH WAS. The fucking coward was nowhere to be found. And yet, the media keeps bringing up Giuliani's greatness without asking why Bush wasn't around then either.

I marvel at how far I've come in my political leanings since then. Just call me enlightened--thanks to DU.

[Porcupine]

37. I rememebered that Bush had missiles in Milan for G7 talks

and protesters were accused of planning to fly a small, radio-controlled aircraft into the conference with a bomb.

Two months later a jumbo flys into the Pentagon with over an hours warning. It mysteriously manages to hit the empty wing. I never believed for a moment that D.C. had zero air defences.

I knew Bush had done this immediately.

[Mutley]

38. I was at work...

hanging up a new shipment of girls socks. My SO called and told me what had happened at 10:30am. I didn't get to watch any of it on TV until I got home that day. I was too much in shock for a couple days to come to any conclusions about fault, but when fingers starting pointing at Islamic terrorists it dawned on me. I remember thinking when Bush was selected that he was going to find a way to get us back into it with Iraq -- walk in Daddy's footsteps and all -- finish what Daddy started. Now he had found that way. I certainly subscribe the LIHOP theory, maybe even MIHOP.

[Z_I_Peevey]

39. Yeah, me too.

But I never thought Junior did it. I knew it was more of an initials thing.

[tlsmith1963]

40. I Was Fooled at First

But when Bush went to Iraq, I began to see the truth. I think he may have had something to do with 9/11. The way he has been behaving in the last few days with the Katrina aftermath proves that he has no regard for human life. I mean, why couldn't this guy have helped orchestrate 9/11? It fits his personality completely.

Tammy

[PatriotMom]

41. I knew he did it right away, when I saw the buildings implode

Our Government waged war on us a long long time ago, why can't we see that?

[Beam Me Up]

42. "Bush" didn't 'do' it. THE PEOPLE WHO RUN HIM DID. Can we name them?

Cheney. Rumsfeld. Those two for sure. General Eberhard, head of NORAD, afterward promoted to the newly formed Northern Command, had to have been in on it, I'd think.

* The shrub may have been told something was going to happen and may have even 'OKed' it, but he didn't put this plan in motion, I don't think.

Who else would HAD to have known in advance? There had to have been people in building 7 that knew what was going on. The "white moving van" has always been highly suspiscious to me; they seemed to know. Who else?

Then there are those who would HAVE to have known after the fact. Bush may be one of those...he is such a puppet he'd go along with anything.

[flyarm]

51. * is owned! he is owned by those who did this..

he is their Manchurian candidate!

he is run by them and he is owned by them!

fly

[dogday]

45. You realized it a lot quicker than I did. It

took almost a year till I realized and I was in denial. I could not believe our Government would let this happen for whatever reason. The more I search for the truth, the more the truth revealed itself and I began to suspect this was set up. It hurt like hell when I finally realized what was going on. It really hurt to think our President would be involved with this. He is supposed to protect us. He is supposed to watch out for the American people. He has just screwed us and left us to fend for ourselves....

[flyarm]

52. remember this.." IN PLANE SITE" ...n/t

[pretzel4gore]

67. like finding out santa claus is a thief!

that would be hard to accept even if santa got busted with the silver and the vcr....

[atomic-fly]

46. Hard to believe

Hard to believe that our government would be involved in something like this. I still can't believe that you can silence that many people(to go along with something like this), but the gov has considered this before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods


Operation Northwoods or Northwoods was the code name for various false flag actions, including terror attacks on U.S. soil, proposed in 1962 by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders to generate U.S. public support for military action against Cuba.

The proposal was presented in a draft memorandum written by the Department of Defense and Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The draft memo was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. McNamara rejected the proposal.

The proposal's existence was often dismissed as unfounded conspiracy theory until the draft memorandum was declassified in recent years through a Freedom of Information Act request by the National Security Archive.

[flyarm]

54. look deeper into "able danger"

looks like it is being exposed right now those who were in on able danger were air force and military insiders who were put there with no knowledge of Clinton or Richard Clarke!

this is just some starters to begin looking into how deep this went and was ignored by the 9/11 commission!

this take over of fascists began well before the election of 2000!
they had infiltrated our pentagon!!
http://www.legitgov.org/9_1_1_oddities.html

http://www.timesherald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15032471&BRD=1672&PAG=461
snip:

'Able Danger' Shut Down In February 2001 (Can't blame Bill Clinton, folks!) 13 Aug 2005 Ten days before publication of the 9/11 Commission report, commission staff discounted information from a military officer linking Sept. 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta to a terror cell believed to be operating in New York City more than a year before the terrorist attacks. According to a statement released Friday by The 9/11 Public Discourse Project, the two commission staff members who interviewed the officer in July 2004 concluded his story about a Defense Department intelligence counterterrorism program, called Able Danger, that worked to identify and target al-Qaida and other terrorists, was not credible. As a result, the information was not included in the commission's final report published July 22, 2004... A small group of Defense Intelligence Agency employees ran the Able Danger operation from fall 1999 to February 2001 - just seven months before the terrorist attacks - when the operation was unceremoniously axed, according to a former defense intelligence official familiar with the program. The former official asked not to be identified.



NO WONDER THE *HITS ARE NOW SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN..THEY AXED THE PROGRAM!!!


look who was involved in this who ran the 9/11 commission!!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/24/124834/678
snip:
Intel agents Michael Shaffer and Scott Philpott have confirmed Rep. Weldon's claims that a chart with Atta's face, soon the photos of 3 other members of the 9-11 terror team, were known to DIA team Able Danger by early 2000.

This diary will show that Pete Schoomaker and Philip Zelikow are two of the main Perpetraitors in this scandal, that they deliberately withheld information from the President of the United States that would have prevented 9/11, that they and their neo-con rulers Let It Happen On Purpose.

clue....Zelikow!!!!!!!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard

snip:
robertpaulsen


Able Danger is a Pandora's Box that will blow up in the RW's face.
Re-open the 9/11 investigation? BRING IT ON! Here's why:

So the responsibility for stopping DIA program Able Danger, which had Identified Atta and 3 other hijackers and linked them to 56 other al-Queda terrorists overseas, has been laid at the feet of Bill Clinton--except he and Richard Clarke were never told about it at all.

That's right. Bill Clinton was never told about Able Danger and the ID of Atta because Richard Clarke was never told about AD. How do I know? He never wrote about it in his book, nor did he testify about it's existence before the 9-11 Commission!

You see Richard Clarke was known for being obsessed with Osama Bin Laden and HE was the guy the neo-con moles did not want to find out about Atta and the gang. Schoomaker and the neo-cons knew telling the FBI would inform Clarke and then Mr. Laser Beam himself, President of the United State William Jefferson Clinton, would have gotten involved--and the Pearl Harbor-type attack would never take place (the neo-cons talked about the need for a Pearl Harbor-type attack before the PNAC Plan would be accepted by the American people--so when one presented itself, they let it happen).

General Pete Schoomaker, who were later heavily rewarded by the neo-cons in the Bush Administration, blocked the upward motion of the DIA information by having Shaffer and Philpott meet with Pentagon lawyers opinions--lawyers who were rubberstamping ridiculous legal opinions to carry out the neo-con plan. These certain people were neo-cons in the Clinton Administration, covertly carrying out the PNAC plan to let a Pearl Harbor-type attack occur so Iraq and 6 other countries could be invaded.

more


http://www.warandpiece.com

Was Able Danger Shut Down After It Detected Condi-PRC Spy Ring?
Mon Aug-29-05 10:18 AM

DID DOD SHUT DOWN ABLE DANGER AFTER IT DETECTED CONDI’S CONNECTION WITH A PRC SPY RING?

Copyright 2005, Mark G. Levey

According to official accounts, the Pentagon shut the Able Danger project down several months after the Bush Administration took power in 2001. There is now a report that the Defense Intelligence Agency was using the project's data-mining technology to investigate other national security threats in addition to al-Qaeda cells detected inside the U.S.. The program may have revealed details of suspected espionage that got too close to the White House, leading to the termination of the program.

Laura Rozen, who has been closely tracking the Able Danger story, says in her War and Piece.com. blog on Aug. 27:http://www.warandpiece.com /

"This New York Post report on Able Danger is the most revealing so far. I had heard as well that Able Danger was shut down after it submitted papers for its budget review that included a huge China analysis that had the Pentagon review general scratching his head. But I had not heard about the Condoleezza Rice stuff, which would go a long way to explaining why Able Danger may have been shut down:"






snip:



http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/1/23/2031
snip
The Chinese Army Spy and Condoleezza Rice
Charles R. Smith
Wednesday, Jan. 24, 2001

Condoleezza Rice, national security adviser to President Bush, has recently granted an interview to virtually every reporter but me. Perhaps it is because I keep asking her questions about the Chinese spy in her past.
Rice has impeccable credentials. She worked for the elder George Bush in the White House, handling Russian issues. She is a distinguished fellow at the Hoover Institution and former provost of Stanford University. Rice is very close to former Clinton Secretary of Defense William Perry. Rice worked with Perry and the Clinton administration during her term at Stanford. The Clinton White House once mentioned her as being on the short list for secretary of state.

Yet it is her years at Stanford working with Perry that have rendered Rice silent. While working at Stanford, she became involved in the most successful Chinese army penetration of the Clinton Defense Department. She will not answer questions about her relationship with Chinese spy Hua Di.



http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,109896...

[atomic-fly]

64. holy shit...deeper than i thought

I have some more reading to do.

[smirkymonkey]

48. So did I - and I watched it in person.

Immediately, I thought - who benefits? Bush was tanking right before that and people were getting angry. Never for one moment did I believe the official story - for a number of reasons that I won't go into.

I have a feeling we are back to that place again where he's tanking and desperate, and I fear very much what that evil VINDICTIVE family will do to get back at American citizens for "turning" on them.

[Nigel_Tufnel]

50. i thought so after the first plane hit

i cried the day the supremes awarded him the election because i knew we were in for hard times. i felt there was no evil that was beyond these monsters.

my husband calls me a conspiracy theorist. he says i have no evidence, but i have the evidence that's in my heart.

i put nothing past them, including murder.

[Tsiyu]

53. DU helped me see the light

I had questions and doubts, but when I finally found DU ( thanks to my daughter) I began to read the MIHOP and LIHOP threads and realized 911 was most definitely an inside job: the NeoCons New Pearl Harbor.

The moment I realized this I was in a sort of state of shock. "How could our own government do this?" I was stunned by the concept that people are really that evil.

**'s actions in Iraq and NO only offer more evidence of the evil of the NeoCons. Life means NOTHING to them. Power and money are everything.

[Just Me]

56. Not me. I was scared shitless for a solid six weeks!!!!

At the time, I was living in an area vulnerable to attack and I was very afraid that more attacks were on the way. I stocked up food, emergency supplies, water tablets, survival books, and everything needed to survive in the woods for a month ready to load within 5 minutes.

I was not as informed and aware of what this government had done behind my back as I thought.

In August 2002, I immediately recognized the war propaganda against Iraq. That recognition sent me on a self-initiated journey for the truth that left me in shock far longer than the events of 9/11. Although I've always engaged in activism for women and children, my life changed and my focus changed.

For the first time in my life, my activism gained sharp focus on government accountability and fundamental human rights. For the first time in my life, I participated in marches across this country. For the first time in my life, I was afraid of my own government.

It's been a helluva awakening and journey!!!

[flyarm]

65. please don't beafraid..thats what they want you to be...

be proactive...be balls to the walls!!

fear is your greatest enemy!!

that does not mean be uprepared for anything..but be prepared with knowledge first...know everything you can about what your government is doing..and ask,,,,,,,,,,ask the simple questions..leave nothing unturned...look at things objectively...look at whats going on around you..ask so many questions you drive everyone nuts...do not take no for an answer...

your greatest defence is offence..but offence with knowledge...demand answers from all around you...and ask the little questions...people think its always going to be the big stuff..but it is a cumulation of all the little stuff...the simple things..ask...and demand answers..its the only way you can be safe!

and beat the doors down when you don't get the answers...and the worst thing you can be is complacent and afraid of what others will say when yiu make a stand or you ask your questions...it is they that are the fool..not you who are asking and demanding the answers!!

fly

[Politically_Wrong]

57. haha what?

how can you automatically blame bush for that? even when theres no evidence yet?

[scarletwoman]

58. As soon as I saw the 2nd plane hit that morning, I *KNEW*.

In the pit of my gut: dead certainty -- and the words ringing in my mind like a tolling bell: "*THEY* did this!" (*they* being the bush cabal)

I had been feeling a looming darkness growing closer from even before the Supreme Court "selection", there was an evil blackness descending upon our country as clear and palpable to me as watching thunderheads in the distant sky building up before a storm.

After 9/11 I immediately plunged into a months-long obsessive search for every bit of information I could find to fill in the details of what I already knew, in my deepest soul, to be true: *THEY* did it.

sw

[Cleita]

59. Yep, they needed that Pearl Harbor incident to have an

excuse to invade Iraq. When intelligence pointed to this act being planned by Osama, Condaleeza filed it away. Then they just sat back and let it happen at the very least. They might have helped Osama get it done too. It was the same thing with the Reichstag fire. The Nazis were planning it and when the communist firebug Dutch citizen Marinus (I think that was his name) came to their attention. They helped him do it. It also gave them convenient scapegoats to blame, the communists.

[spooked911]

60. I knew something very strange had happened and it was at least partly

due to Bush. And that is still my assessment today. But now I know the evidence for government involvement is rather extensive.

[philb]

69. Complicity of some U.S. officials is well documented by testimony

to the 9/11 Commission-that wasn't included in the Report
and other evidence, such as the documentation in Dr. D.R. Griffin's books The New Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions;
and as summerized by
http://www.flcv.com/offcom77.html
http://www.flcv.com/offcom93.html
http://www.flcv.com/offcom11.html
http://www.flcv.com/offco175.html
http://www.flcv.com/warnings.html
http://www.flcv.com/coverup.html

[leftofthedial]

70. yup

:thumbsup:


every scrap of information since convinces me even more.

[StrafingMoose]

71. My first reaction was..

like alot of others "hole freaking sh*t!!!". Then "OK, bin Laden did it, but...at the same time they're saying he's hiding in mountains in Afghanistan...Hmm..OK, I'll let them explain _that_". Somehow, probable and coherent explications never came (at least not from the 'official mouth'). Then I tought that, no matter how awful the attacks were, it was kind of pointless strategicaly speaking. A wall, 2 buildings, 3000 invididuals (non fighting-force that is), way to go Four Star General Bin Laden :sarcasm: A 4 years old could have drawn better plans to bring down the world's superpower...

[HughBeaumont]

73. WTC7 - the first tinge of LIHOP for me.

I remember watching the Dan Rather footage of the collapse in the late afternoon and thinking: "that's kind of odd. They've been showing that building through some parts of the day and it looked like it was fine. Not only that, that collapse looked WAY too uniform. Something ain't right here."

Then the next two thoughts that went through my head really sent me reeling:

1. How did four planes get hijacked AT THE SAME TIME? Aren't there supposed to be security measures, terrorist watch lists, fighters being dispatched at the first sign of danger . . . ANY of that?

2. How in the HELL did a plane reach the heart of America's defense, the Nation's Capital, the Pentagon and it's restricted, supposedly iron-tight defended airspace, UNTOUCHED (at this point, I was sketchy about the flight pattern of 77)?? Nary a SAM, nary a fighter shooting this thing out of the sky? Where was the protection?

Of course, in light of the TONS of unanswered questions and flat-out dubious and erroneous explanations of the events of that day, I've become what I call a COIN-OP'er (Collectively Orchestrated It Neatly On Purpose). Your government IS this bad, because we don't have a government. It's now a stealth Junta for the wealthy.