Plane melting into butter-creme Tower

[theSaiGirl]

The video magic of the South Tower hit.

Ever crushed an aluminum beer can in your hand ?
Imagine a commercial jet, made mostly of light-weight aluminum (light-weight for easy lift into flight) ...
smashing into the solid steel and concrete of the South Tower ....

LOOK MA !! .... NO IMPACT !!!

It just "melts" into the building ....

Thanks CNN .... for showing us just how ignorant and gullible the American televison-watching audience is.

"Who ya gonna believe ? ..... Me ? ....Or your lying eyes ?'

http://www.911hoax.com/Table_Contents.asp

http://www.911hoax.com/

[hack89]

1. I think you need to research aircraft design

pay close attention to the major structural elements like the center wing spar box, wing spars and cabin floor. Unless your beer can has an immensely strong skeleton inside of it, your analogy is a very poor one.

[sgsmith]

2. Better yet

Take that aluminum beer can. DON'T EMPTY IT. Now that that full can, which approximates a pressurized airliner, and try to crush it.

Bet it doesn't crush.

Now take that full beer can. Have someone throw it at you from a car speeding down the interstate at 70 mph. Bet it hurts real bad. Might even break a bone, could do some serious harm to you if it hit you in the head. Repeat experiment at 100 mph. See if it hurts more. You might even die if a full beer can hit your head from a car driven at 100 mph.

** Please don't throw full beer cans at people. If you do, I'm not responsible for your actions.

[jschurchin]

3. You know something............

you really need to get out more and not watch CNN all the time. Better yet, try turning off your TV and spending more time doing research online, and at your local library.

[Make7]

4. Ooh...................

...if that was a sugar plane with a hint of vanilla, it would've made one hell of a frosting. Mmmmmmmm......

- Make7

[mirandapriestly]

5. It does have the appearance of "melting like butter"

and I have not really read a good explanation for that. Rather than attack the OP, I wish posters would describe WHY the plane appears to melt like butter on bread or cake or whatever.

I read this this article on shaped charge explosives and they use the term "like a knife through butter" . I thought it was interesting how explosives can have that effect on steel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4320818.stm

[Kevin Fenton]

7. Butter?

When I look at the slideshow:
http://thewebfairy.com/911/slideshow/2explosion/
it doesn't look much like butter to me. The plane goes up to the tower, hits it, pieces of debris fly off, but most of it goes into the tower, carried there by its residual momentum. Why should the rear section of the plane slow down, when the perimeter wall has already been destroyed by the forward section of the plane?

[mirandapriestly]

8. what I see is a plane disappearing

without any immediate sign of damage, sort of like a knife into butter. I think that it is a fairly common reaction which I have seen to the slowed down version of the plane entering. It is un-traumatic. I would think chunks of building and plane would be falling or exposed.
I didn't say anything about the rear slowing down, but I would think that if the forward part of the craft had met resistance several times then the rear part would slow down.

[Kevin Fenton]

9. When I look at frame 11...

... I see the plane's tail disapearring into the hole and also the damage caused by the wings and fuselage. I would describe the hole as traumatic and point out that it is clearly visible immediately after the wings have passed into the building. The resolution of the video does not allow small debris pieces to be seen, but they can be seen on other photographs, such as the ones you can find here:
http://www.pbase.com/image/1459850
You can click on next a few times and read the comments too.

The perimeter box columns were about a quarter of an inch thick (i.e. a quarter of an inch on each side) at that level - how much do you think they should slow the plane down in the fraction of a second it takes the plane to go through the hole?

[mirandapriestly]

14. I'd be glad if you were right

because I don't really like the no-plane issue, although the missile added to plane issue is interesting. I will look at it and try to see what you see.

[Kevin Fenton]

15. This is how I see it

Frame 1 - Plane has not yet hit
Frame 2 - Plane has not yet hit?
Frame 3 - Plane has not yet hit?
Frame 4 - Nose has entered tower
Frame 5 - Nose has entered tower, engines have not
Frame 6 - Engines very near or in tower
Frame 7 - Engines have penetrated tower
Frame 8 - Engines in tower, wings have hit tower, fuel tanks ruptured, some fuel spilling behind plane
Frame 9 - Wings are mostly in tower
Frame 10 - Wings completely in tower
Frame 11 - Only tail showing
Frame 12 - Only tail showing
Frame 13 - Tail just outside tower
Frame 14 - Tail inside tower

To me it seems to slow down towards the end, but not by much. Try going through frame by frame and keeping your eye on the tail. I'm not particularly concerned - the front breaking up shouldn't necessarily make the back stop.

[dailykoff]

19. but wouldn't the fuselage have tipped up

on impact, instead of tunnnel-boring straight through the structure?

[hack89]

20. Why?

if it hit straight on it should continue to travel straight.

[dailykoff]

23. Transference of linear momentum into angular momentum.

Another way to think of it is the path of least resistance: the plane body encounters less resistance by tipping than by boring into a steel wall backed by steel and concrete floor assemblies.

[hack89]

33. I think you will have to go into greater detail

before I buy this. It doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

[dailykoff]

37. Read all about it:

Momentum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

Angular momentum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_momentum

Hope that helps.

[hack89]

39. That's no answer .. just definitions.

You need to:

1. show how momentum and angular momentum are related and how energy can transfer from one to the other.

2. Relate number 1 to a 767 hitting the WTC.

Do you really understand or are you merely googling words?

[dailykoff]

40. I think what you need is a tutor.

And no, I'm not interested.

[hack89]

41. Thanks for the laugh!

The good thing about you is that the threads are short because you can't explain anything. You never have never expressed a technical thought deeper then what you can google and you know that as well as everyone else on this board.

Bye bye!

[dailykoff]

42. I knew you'd understand. (n/t)

[mirandapriestly]

45. Take a peekers at this vid

http://www.manos.com/videos.html

scroll down to the bottom "my wtc videos" or something like that. They are taken from NJ or LI or something of the impact and when it is slowed down you can SEE the missi...I mean plane going through the tower and the all the debris showers down on the other side. freaky!

[mirandapriestly]

6. delete by me, mistake

[LARED]

10. 911Hoax.com: statement of principles

There is no documentation confirming that commercial jets AA 11 and UA 175 struck the North and South Towers of the World Trade Center on 9/11/01. All of the video, still photos and audio that have been broadcast of these events by the major news media is phony.

The author of this site doesn't know what really struck the WTC. Maybe missiles were fired at it. Maybe a hologram projection was employed to keep eyewitnesses distracted.

There has been enormous effort to suppress the idea that the TV news video was fake.

Because Indymedia and other ersatz news sources have been so determined to prevent skepticism over the 9/11 news video from spreading this idea must concern powerful interests.

Anyone who wants to try to stop the unjust wars abroad and destruction of civil liberties in the US should consider telling other people that the 9/11 news video is disputed

http://www.911hoax.com/Statement_Principles.asp

People should know they are dealing with a web site from the paraniod fringe. They really believe All of the video, still photos and audio that have been broadcast of these events by the major news media is phony.

Really??????

[mirandapriestly]

13. They make some good points

but their insistence that EVERYTHING is fake and their sureness that a plane didn't hit and refusal to look at anything other than the no plane issue makes them lose credibility.
I sent a link with the Bodyatomic video to this guy , just cuz I wanted to see what he thought of it. I sent this guy an email with a link of a video on it and without telling me first he sent the email with MY NAME & REAL EMAIL ADDRESS on it to a yahoo news group (where web fairy posts) where it was posted. For this and other reasons I don't trust these people. Then the video turned up on web fairy's sight , saying that it was a "fake". but leaving out the information that I thought was important and incriminating in the first place....hmmmm...

[PerpetualYnquisitive]

11. MMMMMMMM,

Butter-planes, melt in your buildings not in your hands.

[HamdenRice]

12. If you've ever been inside the towers, the images make sense

The towers had a deceiving visual quality. From the outside, and far away, they looked like they had an metal "skin". But from inside you would immediately notice that the surface was mostly glass. One of the most fun things about visiting the inside observation deck of the south tower was that you could press right up against the floor to almost ceiling windows and look straight down. It was a dizzying experience, and some friends visiting NYC would refuse to come close to those amazing windows.

My sense of the video is that the planes were basically shredded between the upright steel beams and but passed through the mostly glass curtain wall. That's why a shredded plane and explosive jet fuel explodes out the other side of the tower after each impact.

So my 2 cents: the visual are exactly what I would expect when a jet crashes into a glass curtain wall skyscraper.

On the other hand, I agree with your overall idea that we should not believe everything we see.

[theSaiGirl]

16. Melting... melting... melting ..... disappearing

reviewing from a previous post ....

Frame 9 - Wings are mostly in tower
Frame 10 - Wings completely in tower
Frame 11 - Only tail showing
Frame 12 - Only tail showing
Frame 13 - Tail just outside tower
Frame 14 - Tail inside tower


FRAME 14 - TAIL INSIDE TOWER ........ completely absurd

"Who ya gonna believe ? ..... Me ? ....Or your lying eyes ?'

http://www.911hoax.com/Table_Contents.asp
http://www.911hoax.com /

[HamdenRice]

17. Try to imagine a plane at 500 mph flying into a glass wall ...

and you get the idea. The plane would disappear into the glass.

Now imagine a glass wall with beams. The plane would mostly go throught the glass, except where the beam are.

Several years ago, there was a terrible car accident in my neighborhood. Some kids were racing at about 80 mph and hit a tree head-on. The car wrapped around the tree and almost broke in half.

That is what the beams did to the plane where there was no glass.

Sorry, but the no plane theories are too far fetched and a distraction from the well documented aspects of this crime.

[rman]

18. Observation deck is mostly glass, windows in rest of towers were smaller

You refer to the observation deck as though its windows were typical for all the building - but it is not.

Most of the perimeter walls was about 50/50 steel and glass.


http://911research.com/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/eng-news-record.htm

[simonm]

21. Simple experiment: The straw and potato

Materials:

1. regular drinking straw
2. raw potato

Question: Can you force the straw through the potato?


Hint: Inertia and momentum makes a big difference.

[jschurchin]

22. I truly do believe.......

that is way, way to complicated a test for the OPer. Just my humble opinion.

[dailykoff]

24. Now imagine a plane-size potato colliding with the WTC.

Where are the french fries going to fall?

[jschurchin]

27. Mass and velocity.

First year Physic's. Please tell me you have studied Physic's.

[mirandapriestly]

28. lol.nt

[LARED]

25. Maybe I'm dense, but what is the point of your experiment? nt

[jschurchin]

26. You are kidding, Right?

[simonm]

29. Simple

Never underestimate the power of the straw!

Looks can be deceiving. If the straw has enough velocity it can easily go through the potato.

[LARED]

34. Now I get it and agree n/t

[theSaiGirl]

43. Will that be paper or plastic, please ?

First ... are we talking about a raw potato(e) or a cooked one ?
(Apologies to Dan Quayle)

Now...
Assuming a feshly picked raw potato ...

A paper straw would probably be crushed before it penetrated the outer skin of the potato.
A hard plastic straw might stand half a chance of penetrating it .... depending on the thickness of the plastic.

Hence, by analogy, if the "plane" were made of hardened steel (as in steel beams and girders), it stands a better chance of penetrating the concrete and steel of the Tower.

Now... if the steel exterior were hardened with depleted uranium (as in "missile") ...
well that would be an entirely different kettle of fish..
or should I say kettle of potato soup.

But .. alas... Boeing commercial jets are mostly made of lightweight aluminum.

My thanks to the Boeing corporation for their simple explanation:
"Lightweight materials contribute to the overall efficiency of the 757 models. Improved aluminum alloys, primarily in the wing skins, save 610 pounds (276 kilograms). Advanced composites such as graphite/epoxy are used in control surfaces (including rudder, elevators and ailerons), aerodynamic fairings, engine cowlings and landing gear doors for a weight savings of 1,100 pounds (500 kilograms). Another 650 pounds (295 kilograms) of weight savings is attributable to carbon brakes, which have the added advantage of longer service life than conventional steel brakes."
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family/pf/pf_200back.html

We are talking "materials science" here folks.
Please do your homework...

[Make7]

46. RE: "Please do your homework..."

An excellent suggestion. May I be so bold as to recommend a starting point for your own homework?

You should begin by doing some research on the series of aluminum alloys typically used in aircraft manufacture. Then you might want to find out how heat-treating those alloys will affect the strength of the metal. Finally, compare that to the steel used in the perimeter columns of the WTC towers.

I will be very interested to read the results of your studies.

- Make7

[mirandapriestly]

44. But the mass makes a big difference

the experiment with the f14 hitting concrete was for the purpose of finding out which part of the plane did the most damage at impact (sorry I paraphrased), and they concluded that ,easily, it was the engines. Why? Cuz they're heavier...

[jschurchin]

30. Plane melting into a.........

solid block of concrete.

http://www.sandia.gov/videos2005/F4-crash.asx

Now according to some of the post's I have read, it should just bounce off and all the pieces fall straight down to the hole in front of the concrete block. That is not what happens. Wanna know why? One word, velocity.

[dailykoff]

31. But the Sandia plane doesn't penetrate the block,

at least as far as I can tell -- no butter creme there. So the debris would fall in front of the block.

I can't get your video to play for some reason, but here's a pic and link from 911review.com:



http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html

[jschurchin]

35. Do you have Window's Media Player?

If you do the, video should start automatically, if not, that may be the problem. You can download it free at Microsoft.com.

You can believe what you want about the plane, Physic's however can prove that an aircraft with a high enough velocity can penetrate a structure with the design and construction materials of the WTC towers.

[dailykoff]

38. There are an awful lot of variables,

but I agree that physics (enough of it) would probably show that SOME of the plane would penetrate the building, but that most of it would not.

[simonm]

36. Seeing is Believing

Examples of tornado damage from projectiles.

http://www.weatherstock.com/tornadocat-damage.html

[MrSammo1]

32. Ever crushed an aluminum beer can in your hand ?

Try crushing a closed can!