Could Katrina evacuees be in Detention Camps?

[Tigress DEM]

I know I am digging up old news, but I was thinking of our "Sports Arena Alert" and "Bird Flu" being used as reasons for using the "imigrant detention" camps being used "soon" against "fifth column" types - ie: if you ain't for us you're agin' us - go to detention.

Then this old article hit me anew. And I had a painful thought.

What if we already have people from Katrina in detention facilities on the border and maybe they just think they are in Government Housing while their own is being rebuilt? Wasn't there some kind of sugar coating of the reasons Hitler put the Jews in the Ghetto to begin with?


http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/climatechange-Katrina-05.htm

If We Understand New Orleans; we understand the Bush strategy
Mike Whitney
September 13, 2005

<snip>
New Orleans provides us with a reliable template for judging what the Bush administration will do in the event of a massive "casualty-producing" terrorist attack. However depressing, this is useful information.

Special military units will be deployed to the affected areas to patrol the streets in heavily-armored vehicles; conducting house-to-house searches according to their own discretion.

The cities will be placed under martial law; invoking shoot to kill orders for anyone either looting or out of doors after the designated curfew.

---- -----

Now, the city is a fully-militarized war-zone no different than Baghdad or Kabul. Already, reports are coming in of doors being kicked down by armed soldiers and terrified residents being shunted off to special detention camps in hand cuffs.

---- -----



I looked up some old posts found these links but honestly I never delved into the subject because I was thinking we'd KNOW if they started putting people in Detainment Camps.... BUT WOULD WE?

And KNOWING how Georgie likes to paint by the numbers and follow his own way at the same time, he usually starts doing these things on his own "Devine" authority before anyone can stop him.

I keep thinking we'd eventually find some bodies chewed up by wild pigs or alligators to make up for the missing unaccounted for... and the firm they hired to do this really did put bodies in the woods to be consumed by wild pigs in Florida, so I'm not making a bold statement there.

But what if the death count is so low because we've got slave camps filled with people who fled Katrina and sought help?



Someone tell me I'm just having a bad dream. That there is no way this can be true.






AMERICAN CONCENTRATION CAMPS
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm

FEMA Concentration Camps: Locations and Executive Orders
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm

U.S. Concentration Camps: FEMA and the REX 84 Program
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html

Concentration Camps in U.S.
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Concentration_Camps /

U.S. DENTENTION CENTERS: DON'T BE IN DENIAL!!!
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm

What's Next...Concentration Camps?
http://www.counterpunch.org/shivani0813.html

ENDGAME: Office of Detention and Removal Strategic Plan, 2003-2012
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
http://www.yuricareport.com/Civil%20Rights/Endgame.pdf

Civilian Inmate Labor Program: Army Regulation 210-35
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

Compound / Range 3
This is the site with the latest info & pictures concerning the "Camp Grayling Range 3 area" speculated by some to be a citizen detention camp located on a Michigan military reservation.
Surely, this is a very real place...But, what is this place exactly, and does it serve as a sinister holding area for future government dissidents through Rex '84, Operation Garden Plot, & FEMA programs?
Decide for yourself...

http://www.geocities.com/stealth_shadow2005/index.html

..... TACMAR codes embeded in our roadsigns that lead to Camp Grayling?
http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com ..... scrubbed website? were these codes multipurpose military directionals and did they have to take it down on account of "national security"? or were they co-hearsed?

Anybody ever read this site when it was operational? What do you make of their adieu?

[cali]

1. No.

This is boilerplate tinfoil material. If that many people were missing, we'd hear it. There are still excellent investigative reporters in this country, despite the constant bemoaning of some. And they're free to publish. Sy Hersh comest to mind immediately as do many writers for Harper's, Mother Jones and the New Yorker.

This is just so ridiculous, your sources are the left wing equivalent of the right wing sources that claim Hillary murdered Vince and a score of others, that claim that the dems are really a front for International (gasp) Communism.

We have real and serious threats posed by this admin confronting us. This is bullshit.

[Tigress DEM]

4. Well, the one that scared me was the actual army site.

Initially I read that and thought keep an eye on it. I remember the wording of the first resolution that they proposed for building those - it gave the SEC of Homeland Security carte blanche authority. Buried in section 101 it may have snuck through. People raised a great stink, but worse things came up.

The fact that Army regs have been written seems like there is some credence to their consideration of using these imigration camps for citizens.

And it was a senator that suggested the whole "fifth column" thing as a way to justify that the pRes could imprison "enemy combatants" or their "sympathisers" and their is a government official being tried for calling the people in the White House the biggest terrorist threat. He was at a Muslim gathering. But it seems like a truthful American observation to me. He didn't tell people to do anything about it except not let others define "Muslim" to them.

I'm not a tinfoil type. It occurred to me those could be photos of regular old prisons. Inmates aren't outside much.

My main problem is every time I think, "Nah, they wouldn't - couldn't do THAT." They do it and worse.

[NoGOP]

5. I agree.......

I see no basis for this speculation.

We've got more than enough things "really" going on to be concerned about.

[Tigress DEM]

9. 17 posts. Ooops now 18. Legitimate disagreement or.... another tag team?

Suppose I'll have to put you two on my watch list. < cali - NoGop >

Who better to replace an outgoing mole than someone who establishes them self as "foe of the freeper" in a massive greatest post and a little newbie that people will want to cut some slack.

If I'm wrong, I apologize profusely. But even your tag line is a bit.... androgynous. GOP = telling people how to live their lives. Not so bold as to show it really bugs you that it happens.

OK. So what are the REAL issues in your estimation, friend? If you truly are on DU for DEM reasons.

[NoGOP]

19. Watch away......

I'm just more concerned about real problems in this country going on, such as the enormous spending on this war, the Theology mindset of the GOP (Official Religion of Missouri anyone?), abortion legislation in South Dakota and Mississippi, judicial nominees, Scooter Libby, etc... to get worked up over stuff like this and conspiracy theories about Dick Cheney shooting people while hunting.

[greyl]

35. Welcome to DU! :) nt

[Tigress DEM]

7. Most real DEMs try for a respectful tone BTW.

She who bashes freepers so loudly.

Do you feel that way about just them or everyone who you disagree with?

[cali]

12. Tigress Dem,

I apologize for the disrespectful tone. I'm sure your concerns are real to you. My concerns are that when we speculate on things that are so unlikely we do twofold harm. One is that we create an atmosphere of fear, and fear is not a healthy state. Two is that we get sidetracked from real and pressing issues. Finally, and I know this is a minor thing; I think DU marginalizes itself when we get into the more bizarre conspiracy theories.

Respectfully,

Cali

[Tigress DEM]

14. Thanks for that.

However, and believe me, I'm not usually like this... but IF there are people in detention camps already, which I admitt is a stretch I never went to before this post, WOULD WE REALLY KNOW?

They are still denying the rendition flights and people got pictures of the planes that undertook them.

The problem is that we face a difficult challenge even among ourselves. How can we stick to just the facts when the facts tend to pretty stale as far as us being able to do anything about it?

We all watched on TV as Katrina unfolded and if you've been here awhile you know that FEMA didn't just fumble, they blocked assistance from helping source after helping source and the Dept of Fish and Wildlife followed suit. People trying to help couldn't get to the people who needed it. They even pulled a doctor away from a patient mid attend, and told him a replacement would arrive in a few days. That patient and another died in front of the doctor's eyes.

People still think Ohio had a reasonably fair election because Ken Blackwell sat on the facts that would convict him. Reporters did report on what they knew, but nothing came of it and even at this second trial, I don't know if anything will. He's using the same tactics preparing for 2006.

[bedazzled]

17. the problem with the terms "tinfoil hat" and "conspiracy theories"

is that if the administration is truly creative in its atrocities, unbelievable even, then you can just shout "conspiracy theory." the fact is, that there are such things as conspiracies, and the bush administration has shown many times there is no crime too obvious, or depth too deep, for them to plumb.

as far as marginalizing DU, i'm afraid i don't think that the fate of katrina victims is not a pressing issue...

[HamdenRice]

22. Agree it's not likely but factual correction: thousands are missing

You said that if many people were missing we'd hear about it. But Amy Goodman on Democracy Now and other Pacifica outlets have regularly reported that there are something like 2500 people still missing -- and that's according to official records.

That's an extraordinary fact that is never mentioned in the MSM.

Supposedly it's because these people are scattered across the country and lost touch with their families. Guess they still can't afford a long distance phone call or know how to call collect.

My guess is they are dead and still in the debris that has yet to be cleaned up, rather than in detention camps.

[Tigress DEM]

2. RE: Pigs and Alligators and the low body count.... info on that

This Kenyon actually complained that FEMA was entangling them in a beuaurcratic nightmare and was asking them to do "WAY MORE than ORIGINALLY Asked to do" in providing mobile morge services and went to work instead for the state of Louisianna.



http://tinyurl.com/7vlxb

theRAWstory

FEMA, La. outsource Katrina body count to firm implicated in body-dumping scandals

Miriam Raftery


The Federal Emergency Management Agency has hired Kenyon International to set up a mobile morgue for handling bodies in Baton Rouge, Louisiana following Hurricane Katrina, RAW STORY has learned.

Kenyon is a subsidiary of Service Corporation International (SCI), a scandal-ridden Texas-based company operated by a friend of the Bush family. Recently, SCI subsidiaries have been implicated in illegally discarding and desecrating corpses.

...............

In other words, FEMA and then Blanco outsourced the body count from Hurricane Katrina -- which many believe the worst natural disaster in U.S. history -- to a firm whose parent company is known for its "experience" at hiding and dumping bodies.

The Menorah Gardens cemetery chain, owned by SCI, desecrated vaults, removed hundreds of bodies from two cemeteries in Florida and dumped the gruesome remains in woods frequented by wild hogs, investigators discovered in 2001. In one case, a backhoe was used to crack open a vault, remove corpses and make room for more dead bodies.




The above was my reply to the OP.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1839281#1839433

[Junkdrawer]

3. Dead...unidetentified...and permanently "missing" ....

blamed on the nationwide temporary relocation.

[Tigress DEM]

6. Like I was telling Cali, I don't usually go into this tinfoil stuff....

But if we don't actually KNOW where people wound up, how can we be sure?

I want to believe in a loving universe and my hope is that you shine the light in the corners and you find the roaches and deal with them. I want my country back and I want *ush out of office not in the least for the terrible things that happened during Katrina, but for their insistance on not letting anyone in to help.

FEMA didn't just mismanage, they Blocked supplies and assistance.

[Junkdrawer]

8. I should have added "In mass graves"...BTW: As for FEMA...

try this one on for size: They seem to want to control the ports, huh? :tinfoilhat:

[Tigress DEM]

11. Well maybe their practise of turning all help away will come in handy.

They can keep our ports so safe we'll have to become self sufficient and make everything in house and get to energy conservation like - yesterday.

[Tuesday_Morning]

39. Remember this thread?

Oklahoma evacuee facility turned into FEMA Detainment Camp

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4734380

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html photos here

I've been wondering and worrying about folks in this situation ever since I read this.

I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

I'm extremely depressed to report that things seem to only be getting sadder concerning the people so devastatingly affected by Katrina last week. Two car loads of us headed over to Falls Creek, a youth camp for Southern Baptist churches in Oklahoma that agreed to have its facilities used to house Louisiana refugees. I'm afraid the camp is not going to be used as the kind people of the churches who own the cabins believe it was going to be used.

Jesse Jackson was right when he said "refugees" was not the appropriate word for the poor souls dislocated due to Katrina. But he was wrong about why it is not appropriate. It's not appropriate because they are detainees, not refugees.

<snip>

We then started lugging in our food products. The foods I had purchased were mainly snacks, but my mother - God bless her soul - had gone all out with fresh vegetables, fruits, canned goods, breakfast cereals, rice, and pancake fixings. That's when we got the next message: They will not be able to use the kitchen.

Excuse me? I asked incredulously.

FEMA will not allow any of the kitchen facilities in any of the cabins to be used by the occupants due to fire hazards. FEMA will deliver meals to the cabins. The refugees will be given two meals per day by FEMA. They will not be able to cook. In fact, the "host" goes on to explain, some churches had already enquired about whether they could come in on weekends and fix meals for the people staying in their cabin. FEMA won't allow it because there could be a situation where one cabin gets steaks and another gets hot dogs - and...

it could cause a riot.

It gets worse.

He then precedes to tell us that some churches had already enquired into whether they could send a van or bus on Sundays to pick up any occupants of their cabins who might be interested in attending church. FEMA will not allow this. The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. If they leave the camp they may never return. They will be issued FEMA identification cards and "a sum of money" and they will remain within the camp for the next 5 months.

My son looks at me and mumbles "Welcome to Krakow."

much more at link...

[bedazzled]

10. it's sad, but nothing bad would surprise me about this administration

i do tend to think they'd just shoot them where they stand, as opposed to hiding and feeding them. they're not nice enough to keep them alive.

boy, some folks here are really confident they have all the answers. must be great to be so sure about things.

[Tigress DEM]

13. Yeah, I'd just rather catch them in the act some time, rather than after..

the fact.

The thing is, if no one knows these guys could be American made sweat shops. I'm sure it wouldn't be "nice" that motivated them, but if this group can find a way to turn a profit.....

Yeah. Knowing all the answers is just too big of a responsibility to take on for me. I did use to try to be that way at one time, but I heard a great phrase and it stopped me in my tracks, "Who died and made YOU God?"

I mean, no one IS capable of knowing everything, except possibly God and I hear he has a lake of forgettfulness he throws our sins in, so even He sets SOME limits on it.

[bedazzled]

15. wow! you set your sights low enough to find a possible reason

that's the bush administration -- "don't dream it - be it." there's no level of degradation that would not be possible for this bunch of monsters.

yep, i freely admit that i don't understand much anymore. but i do subscribe to the theory that the path to wisdom is admitting you are ignorant, and i do have my feet firmly on that path. being fairly slow moving, i don't move very far or fast along it, alas...

[undeterred]

16. I can't believe this was moved to the September 11 forum

:think:

[bedazzled]

18. really! has anybody even mentioned 9/11?

maybe the moderator made a mistake?

[WoodrowFan]

20. no mistake

wackjob tinfoil posts go to the 9-11 forum. Tells you what the mods think of this "theory" especially as the original poster used some far rw tinfoils sites in her post..

[undeterred]

21. this post may belong in a tinfoil forum but that degrades the 911 forum

The people in this forum put a huge amount of research into exposing the truth about 911... the truth is that the administration made or allowed it to happen.

[HamdenRice]

23. We should officially contact the mods about this ...

I am resigned to the fact that all discussion of 9/11 is banished here. But I don't think that every tinfoil hat idea, from chem trails to weather war, also goes here.

It degrades any rational discussion of 9/11.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marie26]

38. I don't mind so much

if speculative posts are moved to a smaller forum, it's the total deletions that bother me. People put time & effort researching a lot of this - why erase the posts completely? A lot of time people complain about stories being "disappeared" on news web sites. Well, plenty of stories are "disappeared" as well on DU, the site that's supposed to be promoting free information. And yeah, probably most of them are nutty, but still, I think it's good to at least have that reasource to research things.

[rman]

26. It's getting beyond ridiculous

First that story about a House Bill regarding weather modification, now this.

Neither is theory nor has either anything to do with 9/11.

[file83]

28. I agree with you rman, 100%.

I wish they would at least put up an "alternative research" forum (topics like this Katrina one aren't "theories", they are alternative lines of questioning on mainstream topics). Just wholesale dumping of every unpopular thread into "September 11" is laziness. Talk about a topic dump site, Jeebus.

[rman]

25. They are:

Democracy Now
New Orleans Evacuees and Activists Testify at Explosive House Hearing on the Role of Race and Class in Government's Response to Hurricane Katrina
December 9th, 2005
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/09/1443240&mode=thread&tid=25

<snip>

Jefferson Parish is where the Causeway concentration camp was housed, where we experienced the Gestapo-type oppression, as opposed to being rescued. We were three minutes away from the airport. They could have taken us to the airport. Those military vehicles could have taken us to any dry, safe city in America. Instead, they dumped us at a dumping ground, sealed us in there, and they backed up all their authority with military M-16s.

<snip>

REP. JEFF MILLER: Miss Hodges, would you be offended if I respectfully asked you not to call the Causeway area a concentration camp?

LEAH HODGES: I am going to call it what it is. If I put a dress on a pig, a pig is still a pig.

REP. JEFF MILLER: Are you familiar with the history?

LEAH HODGES: Yes, sir, I am. And that is the only thing I could compare what we went through to: a concentration camp.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: And that's the truth.

LEAH HODGES: And everybody in the place with me, the lady sitting next to me was there, my mother was there, my younger brother was there, my two sisters; we ran into others. That is the point, that they broke up families and dispersed us.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: That's right.

LEAH HODGES: And they stood over us with guns and enforced their authority, and yes, they tortured us. And then they used various forms of torture. And yes, I know what a concentration camp is. I'm a college-educated woman.

<more>

[BlueStorm]

29. This burns me...

"Alva, a 51-year-old grandmother from New Orleans East, remembers, “When we were taken to the higher ground in Jefferson Parish, what did we have to greet us? A line of military police with M-16 rifles. They watched us, caged us, laughed at us, took pictures of us with their camera-phones. I saw a young man get down on his knees and beg for water for his little baby, and I saw the child die right there on the concrete. This was murder. They wanted us dead. They just didn't think so many of us would survive."

From the DemocracyNow! site listed above..

Yep, racism is still alive and burning well. I wonder how many whites wished that slavery was still around... I am not saying that all whites think this way... No wonder Bush and Co. wanted to squelch this. But as my mom would say... this is probably not new.

As for the camps... it could be true, perhaps America is entering a dark age?

Blu

[file83]

27. Well, there are STILL about 1900 people missing in Louisiana alone.

Read this story from ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1668003&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312&WNT=true

Feb. 28, 2006 - Six months after Hurricane Katrina unleashed death and destruction on the Gulf Coast, more than 1,900 hundred people remain unaccounted for in Louisiana alone.

Notice too, how these 1900 people are easily "written off":

The state medical examiner, Dr. Louis Catilde, admits that some of those still lost will never be reunited with their families.

"Are there people in the marshes? Quite probably," said Catilde. "Are there people who washed into the Gulf? Very probably. Will they ultimately be found? I don't know the answer to that. Possibly never."

All I'm saying is that the answer to your question is: Yes, it is possible.

Anything is possible, but it would be an awfully risky operation. If the Gov't got caught keeping 1900 people detained & completely isolated from the outside world - the shit would hit the fan.

I still have to admit, too, that it's possible that very many of these 1900 missing are probably dead and washed away - but "no one" knows for sure. Interesting topic.

[Duer 157099]

30. Historically speaking, detention camps are a reality, not "tinfoil"

People who don't understand that are underestimating the power of evil.

Germany, and Japanese camps right HERE in the USA. Not to mention Russian gulags, etc etc etc etc etc

WOW, I just say wow to those who dismiss the possibility so easily. Makes it easier to understand how the holocaust and the internment camps here happened.

You'd think we'd know better by now.

I'm not saying it's true, I'm just saying it certainly is POSSIBLE.

[RedSock]

31. TIME for a new topic forum

Why don't the mods create a "Conspiracy" folder so that threads that have ZERO to do with September 11 don't get dumped into the September 11 folder?

Honestly, sometimes I think it's amazing that they allow anything to be said about 9/11 on this site.

[LoZoccolo]

32. "Someone tell me I'm just having a bad dream."

Sort of, but when you're awake, convinced of it, and feeling the need to tell everyone else about it, you might even call it a "delusion".

[DemInDistress]

33. skeptics scoff at this thread but the fact is we are just one

major attack away from its implementation. If others don't accept the bush crime family murdered 3,000 citizens on 911 and not the arabs then they wont accept that this concentration camp shit is real. When Martial Law comes to the USA (soon) ( March 26 2006) the Bill of Rights will be suspended,06' elections canceled, anti war Americans, dissidents and those who can't pay the mortgage will end up in these camps. I am a believer of this crap as some call it. Who could have imagined terrorists would hijack and crash commercial jets into skyscrapers h'm.
good thread my friend just give it more time to come to pass..we're dealing with fucking scumbag oilmen from texas whose backs feel the heat now.

[greyl]

36. No, it's the lack of facts that make it crap speculation. nt

[Jose Diablo]

34. No, I don't think Katrina refugees are in detention camps

If the government activates detention camps and rounds people up, we will know about it. You can be sure, many here on DU will be among the first rounded up.

There does seem to be a lot more people 'missing' than the official records indicate though. But I atribute that to the regime not wanting a true picture of the death toll to become public information. By the time the rebuilding gets well underway, after the Republicans manage to have the property condemned and bought-up for pennies on the dollar, practically all of the 'undiscovered' dead will be buried in the Mississippi mud. Maybe in several years someone will undertake to locate the missing, through document searches, but by then it will be just so much history.

Sorry if anyone here has missing friends and relations. I hope by being blunt that others understand I am just trying to be realistic about the people in power today, I am not trying to hurt.

[LARED]

37. My ex-sister-in law is an evacuee living in Waco tx

She used to live in Biloxi Miss. We are in regular contact with her and so far, she has failed to mention the detention camp. This is of course not important if you consider an apartment a detention camp.