America: From Freedom to Fascism

[DemInDistress]

Tired of paying Federal Income Taxes? Watch this 4 minute trailer and go see this film when its released (if ever). Many notables discuss the ilegality of the I.R.S. and the Federal Reserve Bank.
watch it here.. http://www.freedomtofascism.com/w_low.html

snip.. Framed around the efforts of We The People to pursue what is generally (and incorrectly) labeled a class-action suit challenging the government’s authority to impose a direct income tax, America starts with revelations that are guaranteed to shock. The 16th Amendment to the US Constitution was never ratified by a sufficient number of states and therefore is not law. The Federal Reserve is a privately-owned bank that prints our money and collects interest on the national debt. Nowhere in the IRS Code (huge as it is) is there a specific law mandating that Americans actually pay an income tax. We learn that the income tax is a “voluntary” contract accepted by most Americans.

Voluntary?

Add to that the fact that the current income tax – in violation of the Constitution – is neither direct or apportioned (an equal rate for every citizen through all states and incomes), and it’s clear why audiences are reacting. The capper is that Supreme Court decisions affirming the above are routinely ignored by federal courts and lawyers have been fined for trying to inject the Constitution and the Supreme Court into their arguments.

How rude! How did all this come to pass? Why does it continue? You need to watch the movie to find out.
more here.. http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/031406_money_works.shtml

edit to add: http://www.givemeliberty.org/ great site, I kid you not !! end Federal Taxes now..joing the chorus and voice your support. thank you

[GregD]

1. Saw it this weekend in Ashland, OR

and posted about it, but didn't get much of a response. Michael Rupert of FromTheWilderness was there.

Anyhow, I was all pumped up about the event, but my wife was skeptical. She did some research, and found out some interesting tid bits.

This guy Robert Schultz gives a 4-hour presentation. He starts out with an oral presentation, followed by a video covering a lawsuit he has filed againt the Feds. That is followed by more talk, then the "Freedom to Fascism" flick. Stand and applause, pass the donation cans...

Well - it turns out that the former IRS guy who is a key figure in the first video was arrested for tax evasion, as have others. I'm not positive, but this whole "we the people foundation" caper may just be a huge scam. Not sure, but the wife found a bunch of imcriminating stuff.

[DemInDistress]

2. thanks for that info..tonight was the first I heard of it

but it sounded intriguing. Is it true that the IRS is a scam agency? I know of the Federal Reserve bank and back in 1963 JFK was going to disband that entity and back US money with "silver certificates" but was soon
killed. I did like the trailer and provoked me to post it. I felt positive until you mentioned passed around the donation cans. Now I don't know what to make of it. I also read a few stories from the give me liberty site and still feel their on to something. We'll see..\
Thanks again for the feedback.

[GregD]

7. as for the "freedom to fascism"

the folks behind it can't get anyone to distribute it. They are working with a group of smaller distribution houses, and are putting together an overall distribution plan incorporating traditional and Internet-based approaches.

One thing they asked us to indicate on a form they passed around was whether we were willing to help fund the distribution in the future. If nothing else, F to F is as worthy of being part of your video library as any (for example) 9/11 investigative or other such video. It was quite intriguing.

[Ufomammut]

3. The word "federal" is misleading

Looking foward to seeing this one even if I already have at least peripheral knowledge of much of the material.

This will probably be one of those that's just too much truth for the average person to internalize without huge doses of congnitive dissonance ....like the people who think Michael Moore "goes too far." LOL

[rman]

4. un-fucking-believable

this forum has become the trash can for any topic that strokes some mod the wrong way.

[GregD]

6. why was this moved to this forum?

[mirandapriestly]

8. Why be so afraid

of how things look - I think that is the mods mentality. Don't want to look too "extreme".

[reprehensor]

9. Sometimes they just lock 'em.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=665409&mesg_id=665409

[izzybeans]

5. this sounds like Grover Norquist mumbo jumbo

[rman]

10. Much more then him: Michael Moore, Mike Rupert, Sheldon Cohen -former IRS

Commissioner
Peter Gibbons, tax attorney
Sherry Jackson, former IRS agent
Ron Paul, congressman (R-Texas)
Edwin Viera, professor of constitutional law
Edward Griffin, author of "Creature from Jekyll Island"
Joe Banister, former IRS criminal investigator

And they all sound coherent.

As do these fellows:

~350BC - Aristotle
"The trade of the petty usurer(1 is hated with most reason: it makes a profit from currency itself, instead of making it from the process which currency was meant to serve. Their common characteristic is obviously their sordid avarice(2."

1787 - President Thomas Jefferson
"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America rise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation."

~1800 - President James Madison, Founding Father of the Constitution
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance."

1818 - President Thomas Jefferson
"The system of banking is a blot left in all our Constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction. I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

1829 - President Andrew Jackson
"You (the Bankers) are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the eternal God, I will rout you out.
If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given to be used by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations."

1836 - President Andrew Jackson
"The bold effort the present (central) bank (second Federal Bank) had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."

1864 - President Abraham Lincoln (assasinated)
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching. It unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

- President Abraham Lincoln
"If the American people knew tonight, exactly how the monetary and banking system worked, there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

~1880? - Chancelor Otto Von Bismarck
"The death of Lincoln was a disaster. I fear that foreign bankers with their craftiness and tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America and use it to systematically corrupt modern civilization. They will not hesitate to plunge the whole of (humanity) into war and chaos in order that the earth shall become their inheritance."

1881 - President James Abram Garfield (assasinated)
"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."

1920 - Maynard Keynes, writer
"By a continuous process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The process engages all of the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner that not one man in a million can diagnose." ("Economic Consequences of the Peace")

1933 - President Franklin D. Roosevelt, First Inaugural Address
"A host of unemployed citizens face the grim problem of existence. Primarily this is because the rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men."

1933 - President Franklin D. Roosevelt
"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American US President."

1957 - George W. Mallone, U.S. Senator, speaking before Congress
"I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over the last 49 years, they would move on Washington; they would not wait for an election... It adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States!"

1964 - Wright Patman, US Congressman
"The dollar represents a one dollar debt to the Federal Reserve System. The Federal Reserve Banks create money out of thin air to buy Government Bonds from the U.S. Treasury, and has created out of nothing a debt which the American people are obliged to pay with interest."

---

Looks like this is one issue where the Left and the Right have common ground.

[izzybeans]

11. Money has always been a social fiction.

Good luck getting rid of it and good luck garnering the universal trust required for it to have value. Value is not created by magic nor by a fictional "invisible hand". Whether it be backed by Gold, Silver, or the sewage in your pipes, it is nothing more or less. But its a fiction whose universal value is built upon collective trust upheld by a centralized institution. Imagine if everyone could print their own money and make a claim for its value. Here is a piece of scrap paper, I say its worth millions. What say you? Whose to arbitrate our dispute? That is precisely why there can never be a "free market".

Those quotes above are quotes dealing with the banking system. And some are spot on and some are quite naive. The whole damn "free market" relies on this system for its existence. This is not a problem of governance its a problem of economic exchange. Sure we must indebt ourselves...if you've got a theory that can replace the current monetary system and not create a social catastrophe I'm all ears. But start from the bottom up, from chaos (not merely fiscally either) because what you imply requires setting up an entirely different fiction which then have to be regulated and rationalized by some central authority-starting with printing of bill and ending with the creation of its value (and this is prior to the bill entering into an economic exchange). Unless you are Karl Marx or perhaps would like to try and trade 'coon skins for tobacco I'm willing to bet this answer will not be adequate.

But just know this critique has bigger consequences than you realize. If you want an open banking system you'll see some fun stuff happen to "value" (the social fiction aspect of the piece of paper printed by the Reserve). YOu are already starting to see worldwide consolidation of this value with the creation of the Euro and the diminishing centrality of the dollar. The value of the dollar is wholly dependent upon the government, if it were not them then it would be dependent on some authority outside of the control of citizens, such as a centralized private bank. Those are the choices you have. Pick one.

[rman]

13. We shouldn't get rid of money, we should control it

"we" as in, the government.


"If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given to be used by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations."
-- President Andrew Jackson


Currency is as much a "common" of the people as are for instance elections and the media. It is the oxygen of the economy - our economy, and it should be under our control.

The main thing about the issuing of currency is that there's enough of it to cover the value of the goods and services for which there is demand and which are being traded. There's no particular reason why its regulation should be in control of private institutions rather then under government control. There is however good reason why it should be under government control: we wouldn't have ourselves pay interest to ourselves.

[DemInDistress]

12. Thanks rman for those bits of information. looks like some heavy

hitters weighed in on out banking system. I was shocked to see this moved to the 911 forum of all places. Wonder why they did that? I see no connections to the Sept.11 attacks other than the scumbags in banking who might also be involved with 911. I ask myself,"who stood to profit from those attacks?" Osama? or the bush crime family,pentagon,defense contractors,big oil,tele-com,BANKS, and any others who I fail to mention...
The management now has me snake bitten, do I antagonize them and repost or blow it off and forget it? Is this the America we want.Is this the DU we want? Is it fair? or is this a case of,"its my football" you don't like my rules then leave.
Thanks again for the feedback.

Dem