Military Jet Fuel & Pyrocool

[mirandapriestly]

It looks like FDNY used this stuff called Pyrocool to quell the fires after 9-11:

www.pyrocool.org/news.htm
On the morning of September 30, two thousand gallons of pyrocool FEF was delivered to the Liberty Sector Command Post at Liberty and West Streets, adjacent to the West side of what was the North Tower. Staging operations were coordinated by WTC Incident Command and FDNY Research and Development (R&D) that would apply pyrocool to two areas of immediate concern -the debris field on the West side of the North Tower and the backside of the debris field of the Federal Building (No. Seven). For the Building Seven operation, a 75-foot ladder tower (Truck Company 133-Brooklyn) was utilized, together with a 500 GPM Akron educator. Foam was applied, at approximately 500 GPM, for two hours to the middle section of Building Seven, after which a portable infrared camera revealed that the area had been fully extinguished. In fact, no hot spots were found in the area where pyrocool had been applied. Pyrocool FEF had been used prior (in the civilian sector) to put out troublesome fires, however, prior to Sept 11, 2001 Pyrocool FEF was used mostly by the military to douse incendiary attacks (Incendiary armour piercing weapons fire).
From the pyrocool site -- "Combustible metal fires can also be extinguished using PYROCOOL® FEF. "


PYROCOOL "FEF" FIRE EXTINGUISHING FOAM
ACTUAL PRODUCT LABEL
This formula is recommended for use for Class A and Class B combustibles, including highly volatile hydrocarbon fires (e.g. military jet fuel) and three-dimensional and pressurized fires.

PYROCOOL® FEF is effective for extinguishing unleaded gasoline with MTBE additive. Combustible metal fires can also be extinguished using PYROCOOL® FEF. Underwriters Laboratories of Canada certification pending."

...
MILITARY JET FUEL? Hmm, what is different between regular jet fuel and MILITARY jet fuel , I wondered. I looked it up. Military jet fuel is kerosene like normal jet fuel, except it has this stuff tri-ethyl borane(TEB) that keeps the flashpoint low to keep it hard to ignite , okay., but what else does TEB do?:

IT BURNS AT A HIGHER TEMPERATURE WHEN OXIDIZED (combined with air).


I don't know what happened exactly, but there has been speculation that military craft were used & the fires were hotter than you would expect. And : prior to Sept 11, 2001 pyrocool FEF was used mostly by the MILITARY TO DOUSE INCENDIARY ATTACKS (Incendiary armour piercing weapons fire). (like, missiles n stuff) . It also contains A-50 which reduces it's ability to be detected by radar, but I don't know if that is reduced from normal jet fuel or from the shock waves created by the TEB, also interesting.

About military jet fuel:
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Evolution_of_Technology/fuel/Tech21.htm
Engine designers and fuel chemists created JP-7 with a high flashpoint that would not explode in the aircraft's tanks, but this also made the fuel hard to ignite within the engines themselves. Because JP-7 is so hard to ignite, particularly at the low pressures encountered at high altitudes, these planes used a special chemical called tri-ethyl borane (TEB), which burns at a high temperature when it is oxidized (combined with air). Another problem that the A-12 encountered was that the engine exhaust (particularly shock waves created in the exhaust when the engines were at full afterburner) was easily seen by radar. The engine designers added an expensive chemical known as A-50, which contained cesium, to the fuel for operational flights that reduced its ability to be detected by radar.

[hack89]

1. One correction - JP 8 is the standard USAF jet fuel..

JP7 was a unique fuel and is not commonly used:

The development of the SR-71 in the late 1960s required a new fuel having low vapor pressure and excellent thermal oxidative stability to meet the requirements of high altitude and Mach 3+ cruising. JP-7 is not a distillate fuel like most other jet fuels, but is composed of special blending stocks to produce a very clean hydrocarbon mixture low in aromatics (typically 3%), and nearly void of the sulfur, nitrogen and oxygen impurities found in other fuels.

http://www.airbp.com/airbp/public/generalinterest/jethistory.html

JP8 is not significantly different from commercial jet fuel:

JP-8 is the military equivalent of Jet A-1 with the addition of corrosion inhibitor and anti-icing additives; it meets the requirements of the U.S. Military Specification MIL-T-83188D. JP-8 also meets the requirements of the British Specification DEF STAN 91-87 AVTUR/FSII (formerly DERD 2453). NATO Code F-34.

Jet A-1 is a kerosene grade of fuel suitable for most turbine engined aircraft. It is produced to a stringent internationally agreed standard, has a flash point above 38°C (100°F) and a freeze point maximum of -47°C. It is widely available outside the U.S.A. Jet A-1 meets the requirements of British specification DEF STAN 91-91 (Jet A-1), (formerly DERD 2494 (AVTUR)), ASTM specification D1655 (Jet A-1) and IATA Guidance Material (Kerosine Type), NATO Code F-35.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/jetfuel.html

But I am not sure why this is important - surely you don't believe that there was still jet fuel burning 19 days after 9/11?

[mirandapriestly]

2. the initial fires would have been hotter,nt

no, I don't think it would be around 30 days later.

[hack89]

3. But not by a significant amount ..

how can it be when JP8 is nearly identical to commercial aviation fuel?

[mirandapriestly]

4. Some military craft, still use jp7

such as the SR71 stealth, http://www.compilots.com/article1029.html

and I would think other military aircraft still use it if they were made when it was still being used, also TEB is an additive that is sometimes put into military planes. If the intent were to have an extremely hot fire from a plane crash that would be a way to get it.
The significance of the use of Pyrocool is that it was a substance used to cool unusually hot burning fires such as those caused by military fuel & incendiary military weapons before 9-11. What made this fire burn so hot? One answer is military jet fuel or fires FROM OTHER MILITARY WEAPONS.
I do not think anyone has come up with a good "official" reason for the heat of these fires.

[hack89]

5. The SR71 was a unique aircraft with unique engines ..

JP7 was formulate just for the SR71 and it was the only aircraft that used JP7.

When operating at high cruising speeds, the turbine inlet temperatures reached over 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, which required the development of a new type of fuel, known as JP7. It had a much higher ignition temperature than JP4. It required the use of a new type of chemical ignition system based on a fluid known as tri-ethyl borane.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f12.html

No other air force jet used a chemical ignition system

The rubble fire was not unusually hot - it was about 1200C. The problem is that the hot spots in the rubble pile were so large - we know it was not fuel burning 19 days after 9/11 and no one can even suggest a military weapon that would create such large and persistent fires. Napalm, thermite, white phosphorous create extremely high temperatures but they are short lived chemical reactions - they wouldn't be burning for days.

A better place for an answer is to perhaps look at underground fires like landfill or mine fires - perhaps what made the 9/11 fires so hard to put out was not their temperatures but the fact that they were inaccessible

[mirandapriestly]

6. That fuel was/is used in different things from what I can see

The point is, those fires were unusually hot , that's why they called a company that previously had only been used for fires from military jet fuel (do you think the company only waited for calls from SR71's?) and fires from incendiary military weapons. Now why would they call a place like that? It's an issue of perception.

[mirandapriestly]

7. Pyrocool,also absorbs ultra violet radiation

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1634

Now let's see what gives off ultra violet radiation....oh yeah, thermite!

[LARED]

9. Ultraviolet Radiation

is everywhere.

What are some sources of ultraviolet radiation?

Sunlight is the greatest source of UV radiation. Man-made ultraviolet sources include several types of UV lamps, arc welding, and mercury vapour lamps.

UV radiation is widely used in industrial processes and in medical and dental practices for a variety of purposes, such as killing bacteria, creating fluorescent effects, curing inks and resins, phototherapy and suntanning. Different UV wavelengths and intensities are used for different purposes.

Table 1 gives some examples of occupations with a potential risk of ultraviolet exposure. Table 2 gives examples of devices which employ UV radiation.

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/ultravioletradiation.html

It's quite unclear why you think the use of pyrocool is meaningful in the context of a conspiracy on 9/11. It's a fire fighting material. It was used on a fire.????????

[mirandapriestly]

11. ooh, then I better spray pyrocool on my house, it's sunny today

actually , it's cloudy, sigh...obviously there was TOO MUCH uv , not from sunlight.

[LARED]

12. obviously there was TOO MUCH uv

Huh?

What are you talikng about?

[rman]

8. You're saying WTC7 fires were fueled by (military) jet fuel?

Then how did jet fuel end up in WTC7 in such large amounts that it caused prolonged fires that were _fueled by_ that fuel? (as opposed to just caused by it)

Even if jet fuel caused the fires in 7 then it would normally only be the _cause_ of the fire; as in the towers the fuel would have burned off rather quickly, leaving fires fueled by office contents.

More likely the fires in 7 were started and/or fueled by diesel fuel, and "PYROCOOL" may have been used to extinguish some of it.

[mirandapriestly]

10. I never said that,

Man, you people...I said the FDNY called a company that specialized in fires caused by military fuel & incendiary military weapons. A company that absorbs ultraviolet , the radiation that comes from thermite. I think that is an interesting coincidence. if you are going to try to bully me, at least use what I actually said.

[salvorhardin]

13. A company that absorbs ultraviolet?

Wouldn't that be an OSHA violation? Forcing your workers to absorb ultraviolet?

[mirandapriestly]

16. read the information before

jumping on the debunkers bandwagon

[LARED]

14. What makes you think Pyrocool

specialized in fires caused by military fuel & incendiary military weapons? Nothing I see on their website indicates they specialize in those fields. They seem like an ordinary company that supplies firefighting products used all over the place.

[mirandapriestly]

15. my first post

Pyrocool FEF had been used prior (in the civilian sector) to put out troublesome fires, however, prior to Sept 11, 2001 Pyrocool FEF was used mostly by the military to douse incendiary attacks (Incendiary armour piercing weapons fire).
From the pyrocool site -- "Combustible metal fires can also be extinguished using PYROCOOL® FEF. "


PYROCOOL "FEF" FIRE EXTINGUISHING FOAM
ACTUAL PRODUCT LABEL
This formula is recommended for use for Class A and Class B combustibles, including highly volatile hydrocarbon fires (e.g. military jet fuel) and three-dimensional and pressurized fires.

PYROCOOL® FEF is effective for extinguishing unleaded gasoline with MTBE additive. Combustible metal fires can also be extinguished using PYROCOOL® FEF. Underwriters Laboratories of Canada certification pending."

[piobair]

21. from the label

Recommended use including unleaded gas. The point is that Pyrocool is used for all hydrocarbon fires and not just for "military jet fuel". We currently have 200 gallons in the fire house and the closest military base is 200 miles away. It is mixed on the engine at a rate of 1 to 2%. One of the reasons foam is so effective is that the surface area of the bubbles is able to disipate more heat than plain water. It also helps to smother the fire and starve it of oxygen.

[mirandapriestly]

22. They've started marketing it for other uses, including

household. But, the site says it was used for military fuels, and fires from military incendiary weapons prior to 911, as though fires somehow changed after 911.

[piobair]

23. marketing

Sounds like a marketing tool to me. Pyrocool is one of probably a dozen brand names of AFFF foam. All do about the same thing.

[rman]

17. I'm not trying to bully you

Certain passages in your OP caused me to think you were suggesting military jet fuel was involved in the fires in WTC7;

"...BURNS AT A HIGHER TEMPERATURE WHEN OXIDIZED (combined with air).
..speculation that military craft were used & the fires were hotter than you would expect."

You mentioned the bit about absorbing UV in a later post.

But the absorbing is indeed rather interesting. Although i wonder if it isn't UV but rather Infra-Red ("heat radiation"), since thermite works primarily because it causes a lot of heat. Strong UV radiation can be damaging to life forms, but i seriously wonder if thermite produces that much UV, if it produces any significant amount of UV at all. Otoh large scale use of thermite is definitely expected to cause excessive amounts of heat to the point of possibly arising suspicions. I'm not sure how UV radiation would be a problem for the perpetrators.

[mirandapriestly]

19. Sorry...

I thought you were ridiculing me...it just seems like such an obvious conclusion to me, not a smoking gun or anything, but it's just another indication that those fires were caused by something more than kerosene. I wasn't necessarily saying that it is fact,though.. Guess I just want others to see what I see.(don't we all)

[rman]

24. That's ok

Been there, done that.

I think the fires in the towers on and near the floors that were hit were ignited by kerosene from the planes. Those may have been military planes and they may have been carrying military jet fuel. That might in turn mean that initially the fires was hotter then if it was standard jet fuel. But fuel burns off quickly either way and then you're left with an office fire that isn't any hotter then any other office fire under similar circumstances (aside from any jet fuel).
There are indications of many very localized fires all over the part of the towers above the crash zone. Many dense but narrow plumes of smoke can be seen but no fires are visible. Those along with visible fires far away from the impact zone look rather suspicious to me. Also in some closeups something is visible that looks very much as though parts of the steel are locally glowing hot.

WTC7 is different. Officially the fires there were due to diesel fuel from damaged fuel tanks in the building. Diesel doesn't burn particularly hot and FEMA has concluded it is very unlikely those fires were the cause of the collapse. It's plausible the building had sustained some damaged by debris from the collapsing towers, although it wasn't very near the towers (it was across the street, and there was another building in between it and the nearest tower), and the damage would be a-symmetrical.

In all these cases i think thermite was involved to bring down the buildings, and that's where the pyrocool might fit in. Maybe just to prevent large fires from occurring after the buildings had collapsed. Although i understand it was used only on 7, not on 1 and 2. Maybe because of the fuel tanks in WTC7.

[hack89]

18. Simple question for you ..

What was burning in the rubble pile 19 days after 9/11?

[mirandapriestly]

20. There were reports of molten steel

and FEMA said that office furniture and other debris caught fire in secondary fires,which isn't necessarily true, but I would guess that debris was still burning. But, that isn't my point , my point isn't what was burning in the rubble, it was why it was still burning, and why they turned to someone who specialized in military fires...