The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll

[JackieO]

New York Magazine covers the 9/11 truth movement. It's a really long article.

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/news/features/16464/index.html

Saying he was in New York “to debunk the outrageous myth . . . the absurd fairy tale” that the tragic events of September 11, 2001, were the work of nineteen fanatics with box cutters sent by a bearded man in a cave, the 60-year-old Tarpley projected a slide designated “State-Sponsored False Flag Terrorism,” depicting a Venn diagram of three interconnected circles.

Circle one was labeled patsies, comprising “dupes,” “useful idiots,” “fanatics,” “provocateurs,” and “Oswalds.” Included here were the demonized bin Laden and alleged lead hijacker Mohammad Atta. The second ring, marked MOLES, contained “government officials loyal to the invisible government,” such as Paul Wolfowitz, Tony Blair, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and, of course, George W. Bush. The third circle, PROFESSIONAL KILLERS, encompassed “technicians,” “CIA special forces,” “old boys”—the unnamed ones who did the dirty work and kept their mouths shut.

September 11 was the true face of corporatized terror, said Tarpley, graduate of Flushing High School, class of 1962 (also Princeton), and author of an “unauthorized” biography of George Herbert Walker Bush. The book paints the Bush-family patriarch, Senator Prescott Bush, as knowingly profiting from Hitler’s Third Reich in his role as a director of the Union Banking Corporation, where, Tarpley’s book says, the Nazis kept their money.

According to Tarpley, this, roughly, is how it went down on September 11: Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the Pet Goat–engrossed president played their assigned roles enabling the strange events of the day, including the wholesale “stand-down” of the multi-trillion-dollar American air-defense system. Cued by fellow mole Richard Clarke, the main players made sure the CIA-owned-and-operated Osama and his alleged 72-virgin-craving crew got the blame, the towers collapsing not from fire, as reported by the brainwashed mainstream media, but thanks to a well-planned “controlled demolition.”

[wtmusic]

1. Tarpley is a CIA plant whose job is to reinforce the "loonie left"

public perception...all part of the plan... :silly:

[pberq]

3. So in that case you must have an explanation

for all the things that have been either omitted or coverd up in the 9/11 Commission Report.

See "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions"
by David Ray Griffin http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566565847/qid=1142873623/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-1035603-0796811?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Among the problems Griffin says the commissioners fail to address are discrepancies in the hijackers' identities; the behavior exhibited by President Bush and his Secret Service contingent in Florida; and the charges of obstruction by higher-ups made by FBI agent Coleen Rowley and other mid-level officials. In fact, "revisionism" was the Commission's major goal, argues the author, since the report reconstructs the timelines of the hijackings, officials' teleconferences and the plane crashes to absolve the military of mishandling jet fighters' intercepts of the doomed passenger aircraft. Supported by news media reports, government documents and readily available secondary sources, Griffin's research raises valid questions about the Commission's political aims and investigative methods.

______________________

The above merely scratches the surface of the obvious whitewash of the 9/11 Commission.

[reprehensor]

8. Perhaps he is a charter member...

of the CIA Bin Laden Fan Club, Chairman, Anonymous;

...in the CIA, there’s a remarkable phenomenon, there’s a Bin Laden fan club, and I have a couple of documents on this, one is a guy called Michael Scheuer, who wrote a book called ‘Imperial Hubris’ which came out during 2004. And the interesting thing is when he wrote this book; he was a serving CIA official, the person who had run at a previous time the Bin Laden station. And what’s his thesis about Bin Laden?

He says that Bin Laden is the greatest political genius of the 21st century he actually compares him to Abraham Lincoln. He defends him against criticism, because I think the obvious thing is Bin Laden is a bungler, a dreamer, an ideologue, he’s probably somebody who couldn’t find his way around without a CIA covert operation to help him. The person who actually makes the decisions looks like Zawahiri, who was part of the Sadat assassination, who then lived in England for a long time, even though the Egyptians had arrest warrants out for him killing a head of state, Zawahiri looks like an agent of MI5 or MI6, the British intelligence agencies.

Most impartial observers would say that Zawahiri runs the show and that Bin Laden is simply somebody that they bring out to babble at certain times, if he exists at all. But what you can see is what the CIA wants to do is build up Bin Laden. Why would the CIA want to build up Bin Laden?

They want Bin Laden to be the political leader of the Arab world. Because if Bin Laden is the political leader of the Arab world, the Arab world is doomed. Bin Laden’s line is, if you’re a real believer, and you meet a non-believer, you have to kill the infidel. Think what that means, if you’re an Arab country, in today’s world you need to find some kind of an ally against the British and the US, you need to find Russia, or China, or Pakistan, or South Africa, or Japan or somebody and all of them, or most of them are likely to be non-Muslim. So if you cut yourself out of those types of alliances, you’re guaranteed to be absolutely isolated, and very, very easy prey for the British and the US...

But I doubt it...

[EVDebs]

13. When the oil runs out in 25 years where does this leave the Arab world ?

In a very bad place.

[Canuckistanian]

25. They might need sand for making solar cells

But such a small amount is needed, that they could get it from a beach in Kennebunkport instead.

[pberq]

2. Kick & Nominated - Any thing to forward the movement

for getting the truth of 9/11!

The wildest conspiracy theory of 9/11 is the "official" story that leaves unexplained most of what happened that day.

[soulcore]

4. k & r. for truth and justice.

911 truth. Now.

[Dhalgren]

5. K&R!

If it is a "loony left" idea to actually investigate the events of 9/11, then by the gods, let it be loony left! The idea that anyone trying to get to the truth of 9/11 is castigated as "crazy" or "goofy" is absurd. 9/11 is the worse criminal event perpetrated upon citizens in our nation's history and not only is it not investigated, but anyone suggesting that BE investigated is ridiculed - unbelievable...

[Fridays Child]

6. k/r

[TrogL]

7. If they'd just leave out 'controlled demolition', they'd be fine

They're throwing a red-herring into the mix that will degrade their main point when it's proven false.

Whowever did '9-11' intended to throw terror into the American public by making a big boom on US soil. Crashing aircraft into towers was plenty. Having them fall down was a bonus. Having them fall badly and affect adjoining buildings would have been better(at least to them) (wouldn't have happened - gravity sucks). 'controlled demolition' is completely unnecessary to MIHOP or LIHOP. Why muddy the waters?

[FiveGoodMen]

9. What happened to Building 7?

[rman]

36. WTC7:

There were several fires in 7, but it was not "on fire" as some would have it. It had possibly sustained some damage from debris from the collapse of the towers, but not very extensive and the damage would be asymmetrical. Late in the afternoon it just fell in on itself in perfect symmetry.
The FEMA report concludes they don't know why 7 collapsed. The NIST report and the 9-11 Commission Report ignore WTC7. The collapse of 7 has very rarely been shown in the MSM.

photos:
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc7.html

video footage:
http://www.wtc7.net/videos.html

[FiveGoodMen]

45. "We decided to pull it."

Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, 'America Rebuilds' that he and the NYFD decided to 'pull' WTC 7 on the day of the attack. The word 'pull' is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/011904wtc7.html

So it was brought down by controlled demolition. Trouble is, that would mean it was already wired for demolition. If that's the case, it wouldn't be a great stretch to suppose that buildings One and Two were similarly wired.

[reprehensor]

10. Maybe.

From THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Assistant Fire Commissioner: "I thought . . . before . . . No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . the lower level of the building. You know like when they . . . blow up a building. . . ?”

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Gregory_Stephen.txt

# NYC firefighter: “It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit. . . e originally had thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.”

Link to quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Cachia_Edward.txt


# From The San Francisco Chronicle / SFGate.com:

Captain of Emergency Medical Services: "somewhere around the middle of the world trade center there was this orange and red flash coming out ... initially it was just one flash then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode ... and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides ... as far as could see these popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger going both up and down and then all around the building"

Link to quote:
http://sfgate.com/gate/pictures/2005/09/10/ga_karin_deshore.pdf

# "When we got to about 50 feet from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go...
...There was an explosion and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down. I stood there for a second in total awe, and then said, "What the F###?" I honestly thought it was Hollywood."

- Eye-witness Jeff Birnbaum, president of Broadway Electrical Supply Co., New York

Link to quote:
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/electric_broadway_electrical_supplys/

# Member of the FDNY:
"We were trying to get some of the people out, but then there was secondary explosions and then subsequent collapses."

Video: http://www.911blimp.net/videos/FDNY-explosions.mov

# Firefighter:
"As we were getting our gear on and making our way to the stairway, there was a heavy duty explosion."

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/heavy.duty.explosion.wmv

More...

[TrogL]

21. All summed up in a single word - "pancaking"

That's not the point.

I learned very early on that when making a presentation put your best points foward and leave out anything that could be challenged if it isn't necessary for getting what you want.

[bpilgrim]

34. Watch this Video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

peace

[petgoat]

19. "Crashing aircraft into towers was plenty."

Not true. Standing towers would have been an image of strength, and a monument to the Bush
administration's failure to prevent the attacks.

The towers had to collapse to create the image of a vulnerable civilization that required extraordinary
measures to ensure its survival. The collapse was necessary to the psychological effect.

[rman]

27. Natural collapse is so implausible, given the evidence

Granted though, how the towers came down is not the main point. On other hand, proving CD by itself goes a long way toward proving mihop. At least it should arise enough suspicions to reopen the investigation. All you have to do then is follow the money and you'll arrive at the main point.

[mirandapriestly]

38. The government admits that the fuel fires

weren't enough to bring the building down. So what do you think did?

[CJCRANE]

11. Just follow the money:

it's pretty obvious what 9/11 was all about.

Just where did the hijackers come from?
Where was the money transferred from?
Who are Bushco's "allies in the war on terror"?
What countries do the BFEE have strong business ties to?
Was Saddam's Iraq a threat/rival to those countries?

Just answer those questions and read the PNAC document then..

Someone please join the dots.

Forget controlled demolitions and missile pods and blaming it on the jews and look at the financial and personal connections hiding in plain sight (but rarely talked about).

[reprehensor]

15. Why didn't the 9/11 Commission do this?

And why didn't they seriously investigate allegations of insider trading before 9/11? Specifically; increases in "Put Options" on UA and AA?

This is not our job.

They failed in so many ways...

[katty]

17. they are cronies, with political ties to cronies-same with

the Kennedy assination Warren Report
9-11 truth/websites have everything, w/MSM press coverage from day one on all of this.

[rman]

23. 28 missing pages

BUSH AND THE SAUDIS SITTIN' IN A TREE, KAY EYE ESS ESS EYE EN GEE
Friday, August 1, 2003
Greg Palast
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=254&row=1

But here's the real kick in the head. Turns out that unlike the 18 minutes missing from the Nixon tape, the 28 pages missing from Congress' publicly released report on the September 11 attack has been found. And it turns out to be a summary of Saudi Arabia's financing of terrorist fronts including the 'charities' supporting Al Qaeda.

[glitch]

41. Nah, much easier to roll eyes and point at loony conspiracy theorists.

Analysis is "hard work". One big part of our nation's problem is sheer laziness and the need for instant gratification.
The official story is swallowed hole. But reality exists whether it's acknowledged or not, so ridicule is necessary.
Necessary to the true believers but irrelevant to reality.

[EVDebs]

12. 9-11 wargames, Ptech/GoAgile, and the WhiteHouse...

The Pentagon attack could only have been accomplished with the wargames being already known about (see the
http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html#airforce
weblink showing in detail ) and any 'insiders' who could give such information to the Saudi/UAE hijackers

Ptech article
http://www.madcowprod.com/index45.html

showing their FAA and NAS computer access, along with other clients tied to intelligence. I understand that Ptech has now changed its name to GoAgile, for what it's worth.

Dollars of Terror
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17730

""Ptech’s clients in 2001 included the Department of Justice, the Department of Energy, Customs, Air Force, the White House, the FAA, IBM, Sysco, Aetna, and Motorola, to name just a few...
The FBI finally raided Ptech on December 6, 2002. However, no arrests were made and the company continues to operate, and according to Ptech’s CEO, Oussama Ziade, in May 2004, "Ptech still has government agencies as customers, including the White House."...Recently, Ptech changed both the name of the company and of its software to GoAgile.""

For the template to be discarded, the WhiteHouse would have to disown its current contractor GoAgile. They would have to admit that 9-11 happened on their watch, possibly with their own assistance. That assistance could have been either LIHOP or MIHOP or even just plain old negligence. The question of how 9-11 happened while wargames were ongoing and whether terrorists had foreknowledge of those wargames is begged. Coincidence ? Highly unlikely.

In any event, another 9-11 could happen with a port agreement and foreign insiders. Makes you wonder about this administration, though, doesn't it ?

[CJCRANE]

16. The port sell-off

shows exactly who B*shco's working for.

I find it so ironic that freepers foam at the mouth about killing muslims and arabs but don't notice who B*shco's real paymasters are or that America's revenge has rained down on Iraq, a country which had nothing to with 9/11.

[katty]

18. inability to comprehend 'cause & effect'

[AuntiBush]

29. You Know...

If the port deal doesn't do it for the rest I don't know what the hell ever will.

9/11. Terra color levels elevated daily. Jump forward to 1-2 weeks back w/port deal w/country connected to who Bush said was connected to 9/11.

When something does not seem right, then its not right meaning something is wrong, right!?!

Will we ever know the truth?

[EVDebs]

30. Walter Pincus article on contracted out intelligence

Increase in Contracting Intelligence Jobs Raises Concerns
By Walter Pincus
The Washington Post

Monday 20 March 2006
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032006H.shtml

which is essentially what Ptech/GoAgile had during 9-11 with access to wargames and FAA computers.

[AuntiBush]

32. Thank you for the link.

Ptech. Now, GoAgile. Didn't know that till now. Hm.

[Up2Late]

14. Nothing new to see here, move along...

...:boring: This is a good HISTORY and summery of the so-called 9/11 "truth movement," but for those of us who have been down this road, it's all old info.

It does make a lot of good points, but it also fans the flames and boosts the book sales for the snake oil salesmen that are pushing this crap.

I have no doubt that there's a little bit of truth sprinkled through most of these "theories," but most of it is BS, being spun by modern "snake-oil" salesmen and far-right reactionaries, who would rather believe this stuff, than admit that when you work in a major sky-scraper, you are adding risk to your life.

Here's a few REAL FACTS:

1) The so-called "proof" the mentioned websites offer almost always point to Photos and video that are posted to the the web.

2) These photos are almost always Jpeg pictures and small quicktime and mpg video, all of which are small and compressed, to make them viewable on the web, without having to waste a lot of time waiting for them to down-load. Proof would be form the Original film or at least a Tiff file.

3) When you compress photos and video, these already low resolution photos and video become even less sharp and clear. (the U.S. standard NTSC, is only 525 lines of resolution AT BEST, most broadcast and cable video is received at 325 lines of resolution) I you want to see what I'm talking about, go sit close to your television, as close as you are from you computer screen right now, and have a look. If you have a way to capture video on your computer, capture something with text, then have a look.


If you want to see some of the higher resolution photos (but still Jpeg) that have been collected from people all around the world (pictures these "truth" sites do not link too) check out these links: <http://www.911digitalarchive.org/images/>

<http://www.911digitalarchive.org/>

<http://911da.org/crr/images/CRRDB/World%20Trade%20Center/WTC%20Attack.htm>

Lot's of (small) Newswire photos at this link: <http://wtc10048nyc.free.fr/index2.html>

[petgoat]

20. If you want to see the real pictures, sign the petition

Scholars for 9/11 Truth is calling for "Immediate release of 6,899 photographs and 6,977 segments of
video footage held by NIST, largely from private photographers, regarding the collapses of WTC buildings
on 9/11/2001" among other things.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/929981172?ltl=1141667399

[rman]

26. The pictures in that archive

From a quick look my guess is about half of the pictures isn't about the events that the 9-11 truth movement deals with.

Can you point me to any one that dispells any aspect of the 9-11 truth CT? A picture that proves the WTC buildings did not fall at near free fall speed? One that shows WTC7 "on fire" as opposed to having a few office fires? One that shows flight 93 at its supposed crash site?
I don't think you can.

I think people should have a look for themselves, at WTC7 in particular.

[rman]

22. "Grassy Knoll" is pretty damning

Many people have never come to believe the Warren Report. Jennings special on JFK didn't exactly help.

[EVDebs]

31. The Zapruder film was doctored along with autopsy photos...

http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/wound.html

JFK was shot from the front with the kill shot. Either that or both the autopsy photos AND the Zapruder film was altered.

Also, read Joan Mellen's new book on the intelligence role in the assassination,

www.joanmellen.net

A Farewell To Justice

[rman]

35. I know

I recommend

JFK II: The Bush Connection
http://madcowpolitics.com/jfk2bb.wmv

It's both a tribute and a sequel of sorts to Stone's "JFK". It takes apart Jennings' presentation, and takes long hard look at the network behind the assasination all the way back to Prescott and you-know-who.

[JackRiddler]

24. K & R and a link...

Full article archived here with commentary:

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060320164312944

March 20, 2006:

What may be the best coverage ever for the 9/11 truth movement in a US corporate medium was published as a feature story by Mark Jacobson in the current issue of New York magazine. Jacobson (or his editor) wrap the subject in the familiar defusing language: "Conspiracy theorists run amok... Ground Zero grassy knoll... wild-eyed nuts..." But this is not the usual attack piece. The 8,000-word article fairly summarizes several key arguments underlying 9/11 skepticism, with a bit of extraneous apocrypha tossed in, apparently for color. More significant surely is the inclusion of a dozen books and web sites by name, including this one. (One current and one former regional 911Truth.org director figure in the piece.)

Jacobson describes his own Ground Zero experience, of being warned on the evening of Sept. 11 that WTC 7 was about to fall, seeing it collapse, and still dreaming about it to this day. NIST head investigator Shyam Sunder is forced to admit to Jacobson that he cannot account for the collapse of Seven.

Jacobson provides details of a lecture by Webster Tarpley to 200 people in Manhattan (as part of a weekly series held nearly every Sunday at St. Mark's Church). He quotes September 11th relative Monica Gabrielle on her realization about the much-disparaged "conspiracy theorists." "They cared more than those supposedly doing the investigating," Gabrielle says. "If you ask me they’re just Americans, looking for the truth, which is supposed to be our right."

Lest you forget, New Yorkers are exercising their right to demand truth at Ground Zero and the offices of Eliot Spitzer, starting at high noon this Wednesday. If you're anywhere nearby, we hope to see you there. (nl)

[JackieO]

33. nice

thanks for that

[IndyOp]

28. William Rodriguez: Massive explosion below, then the first plane hit...

Of all of the reports about 'controlled demotion' reports of explosions in the basement get my attention -- you have to blow a building up starting at the base to get them to drop down into their own footprint. Could the explosions heard after the plane struck be due to 'systems' in the building malfunctioning - yes. But an explosion in the basement before the first plane struck could not...

On 9/11, William was late. Instead of mopping the stairwells on the 110th floor, where he almost certainly would have died, he was chatting with the maintenance crew on level B-1 in the basement. “I heard this massive explosion below, on level B-2 or 3. I saw this guy come up the stairs. The skin on his arms was peeled away . . . hanging. Then I heard another explosion, from above. That was the first plane, hitting the building.”

In possession of one of the few master keys in the building, William led firemen up the stairwells. He was responsible for getting at least a dozen people out of the towers. Trying to escape as the North Tower fell, he found himself beneath a half-buried fire engine.

<snip>

Acclaimed as “the last man pulled from the rubble,” William became a hero of 9/11. “I was at the White House. They took my picture with President Bush.”

Four years later, after repeatedly being rebuffed in his attempts to tell officials his story about the basement explosion, William is suing the U.S. government under the rico statute, legislation drafted to prosecute Mafia families. The suit reads like an Air America wet dream, with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, John Ashcroft, George Tenet, Karl Rove, and others (the Diebold Company is thrown in for good measure) listed as defendants.

“They say I’m a conspiracy theorist; I call them conspirators, too,” William says.

“It is like Randi said. There’s reality, and there’s illusion. When illusion becomes reality, that’s a problem. Nine-eleven is a giant illusion. Besides, what can they do to me? I’m a national hero, Bush told me so himself.”

[MrSammo1]

37. What Mr Rodriguez heard was.......

the blowing of the water pumps. The neocons had to make sure that the fires didn't go out quickly. Otherwise the demolitions would have been harder to sell to the American sheeple.

[althecat]

39. Why do I get an error "You Can't Reccommend Threads From This Forum"?

Should I believe my lying eyes?

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. Seems we can't let the rest of world

get exposed to our 'insanity'. They don't call this forum the dungeon for nothing.

[BrklynLiberal]

42. If this is all just tinfoil hat nonsense then there is no harm in checking

it all out.
I live in Brooklyn, and worked in the WTC. I want to know the TRUTH!!!!

From the moment I saw the second plane hit the South tower I knew in my heart of hearts that the Bushites were responsible for it. Someday, somehow, the truth will come out.

[Grateful for Hope]

43. I hope it is sooner rather than later, BL

I think it is imperative that the truth be known.

[BrklynLiberal]

44. I agree 100%

[EVDebs]

46. Start with Ptech now called GoAgile. They're in the computer software

business and have the White House and many federal agencies as clients right now.

[savemefromdumbya]

47. This is interesting!