The Cleveland Center partial evacuation on 9/11

[MercutioATC]

O.K., I finally hooked up with the people at work that I wanted to talk to. I wasn't there on 9/11, so what I'm relating is THEIR account, not mine.

Cleveland Center was PARTIALLY evacuated (a skeleton crew was left to work planes) beginning at about 10:00am until about 1:00pm on 9/11. Office staff was evacuated first and controllers were sent out of the facility as traffic permitted. At no time were there less than 12-15 controllers and a half-dozen supervisors on the floor watching the scopes.

The exact reason for the evacuation? Nobody seems to know, exactly. As I've mentioned in previous posts, Rick Kettell was the chief at the time and he's since moved to a different facility. I really can't shed any light there. Frankly, I don't see why it matters. The important point is that at NO time were scopes left unattended. At NO time was safety compromised. At NO time would the contention that "the government evacuated the facility so there'd be no witnesses" be valid.

Questions? Ask away...

[Andre II]

1. 10:00 now!

Thanks for coming back.

So, now it's 10:00.
And not before 9:35 anymore?
So, you've changed your opinion now?
You agree that UA 93 can't have been the reason for the evacuation, as you've claimed in January and February?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=26505&mesg_id=68066

So, what was the reason?
Are we back to Delta as it falls perfectly into the timeframe of this plane?

How many controllers do norma

[Andre II]

17. How many controllers do

normally work at Cleveland?

[stickdog]

2. A partial evacuation for three hours for no reason.

And, of course, the reason doesn't matter!

Wow, thanks for "clearing that up"! That non-answer was definitely worth waiting two months for!

http://www.newsnet5.com/News/1608371/detail.html

Then, as controllers worked to clear the skies, a small plane was spotted flying erratically above the Cleveland center. The decision was made to evacuate.

"We actually evacuated, out in the parking lot," said Rick Kettell, Cleveland air traffic manager.

Luckily, controllers there had already landed most of the planes before the evacuation. "Had that happened a half-hour earlier, I probably would have done a limited evacuation," Kettell said.

The Federal Aviation Administration is still investigating what plane that was and what it was doing. "We never did find out exactly who it was," Kettell said. "The airplane flew off to the north, and we lost radar on it."

So in his Cleveland TV interview, why do you think your former manager -- and seemingly the only person in the world who knows WHY the Cleveland Air Route Traffic Control Center, the busiest in the nation, was evacuated during the single biggest crisis in US air traffic history -- lied about the time, extent and cause of the evacuation?

[MercutioATC]

3. I'm just relaying what I was yold.

As I've said, I wasn't there that day.

[stickdog]

5. Why did Kettell lie to his TV interviewers 11 months after the fact?

According the same article:

http://www.newsnet5.com/News/1608371/detail.html

Cleveland Air Route Traffic Control Center landed 4,546 planes safely in 2.5 hours. Since the order came to clear the skies around 9:45 EDT, I'm assuming that these landings took place from around 9:45 AM to around 12:15 PM.

Meanwhile, you tell us the evacuation took place between 10:00 AM and 1:00 PM, during which time we must assume that literally THOUSANDS of these planes were landed.

But Kettell says:

"We actually evacuated, out in the parking lot," said Rick Kettell, Cleveland air traffic manager.

Luckily, controllers there had already landed most of the planes before the evacuation.

"Had that happened a half-hour earlier, I probably would have done a limited evacuation," Kettell said.

This makes no sense whatsoever, considering that, according to you, the evacuation occurred less than 20 minutes after the FAA gave the order to clear the skies and IN THE MIDDLE of an existing Flight 93 hijacking crisis at a time when nobody knew for sure that Flight 93 would be the last of the hijacking problems.

[MercutioATC]

8. My source tells me that the evacuation began at about 10:00...

...it was underway when UAL93 crashed, so between 9:45 and 10:00 as a start time would probably be fair. It took place over time...controllers were let go as traffic allowed.

He said that it lasted about three hours, which would be about 1:00.

[Andre II]

10. An evacuation lasting three hours?

That's kind of strange?
Sorry, but all the evacuations I've heard about aim at a very quick evacuation. Certainly not one lasting three hours.
Why on earth would this evacuation also continue after 11 am? This was an incredibly difficult day for the ATC. Landing all commercial planes as quick as possible. And the busiest facility of the planet decides for no reason to have an evacuation lasting three hours?
Is there any other facility that had also an evacuation taking place at 10:00??

[MercutioATC]

11. It didn't take 3 hours to evacuate...

...the partial evacuation LASTED 3 hours (controllers began leaving a little before 10:00 and came back around 1:00).

I don't know why it lasted three hours, but there were no planes in the sky at 1:00, so they really could have stayed out all day.

[Woody Box]

13. Your source is either ill-informed...

...or Rick Kettell is caught with another lie:

After the plane crashed, a small aircraft was spotted flying over the city of Oberlin, Kettell said.

``I made a decision to evacuate the facility except for a bare minimum staffing,'' he said.

http://tinyurl.com/hzkg5

[MercutioATC]

14. Well, since my source was one of the ones who didn't evacuate,

I think he's pretty reliable. But remember, this was 5 years ago. His exact words were that the evacuation started after AAL77 crashed and shortly before UAL93 crashed.

Since the evacuation doesn't lend credence to any CT, I still don't see why it's an issue...

[Woody Box]

4. Thanks, Mercutio

I'm glad you are back! ;-)

There are many different reasons given for the evacuation, but they all can be subsumed under one headline: it was a threat caused by an approaching plane.

By the way, is there an airport between Oberlin and Lake Erie?

[MercutioATC]

7. Thanks :)

Directly between Oberlin and Lake Erie? No.

We're about 7 minutes WSW of Lorain County Airport, though.

http://www.lcraa.com/facility.html

[Woody Box]

12. Veeery interesting...

So why did Rick Kettell tell the Akron Beacon Journal that the plane that caused the evacuation landed at an airport "north of Oberlin?"


After the plane crashed, a small aircraft was spotted flying over the city of Oberlin, Kettell said.

``I made a decision to evacuate the facility except for a bare minimum staffing,'' he said.

That plane eventually landed at an airport north of Oberlin, he said.

http://tinyurl.com/hzkg5


I have to say this is pretty confusing. Here Kettell says the "small plane" landed at a not-existing airport; on another occasion - look at stickdog's post #2 - he says it "disappeared from radar".

Then we have Stacey Taylor relating that UA 93 was the plane that caused the evacuation, and I remember someone - was it you, coincidentally? - saying that Delta 1989 was the reason.

I mean, we're not talking about a boring routine exercise you forget after some days. We're talking about an absolute unique situation where every controller was needed to ground thousands of planes. An evacuation ot the biggest ARTCC in the USA is certainly not the best idea inmidst this situation if you're not 100% sure that it's 100% necessary, don't you agree?

I think Rick Kettell is a good candidate to testify in front of the next 9/11 panel.

[MercutioATC]

15. Well, Lorain County Airport IS "north of Oberlin"...

specifically, WNW, but that's still "north".

As far as the actual reasons for the evacuation, I've heard UAL93, DAL1989, and a bomb threat. People who were there at the time seem to have different recollections, which isn't surprising, as there are about 700 of us in that building.

Still, nobody has been able to tell me how this has one ounce of importance. The scopes were NEVER left unattended. Radar tapes were always there to be reviewed.

If you had to evaluate the importance of an event, wouldn't the FIRST people you'd ask be those who actually do the job and understand the procedures? Even the one MIHOP person I know at work doesn't think anything of the evacuation.

If you'll tell me what concerns you about this specific event, I'll try to explain in greater depth.

[savemefromdumbya]

6. Ohio

interesting

[Andre II]

9. How come that in January 2006

you stated that the stories you've heard at yoru facility indicated that UA 93 was the reason for the evacuation and you even went at length to try to prove that actually the evacuation happened before UA 93 turned east.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=26505&mesg_id=68551


Btw: How many ATC are normally working at your facility?

[MercutioATC]

16. As I said, different people have different recollections.

I've talked with about a half a dozen people who were there that day and they have different impressions of what actually happened.

Please note that none of them got an explanation of why the facility was evacuated. By the time the evacuation took place, they were aware of some of the events that had occurred and were told the facility was going to go to minimum staffing. What I've determined over the past couple of years is that any "reason" they cite is probably something they've either come up with themselves or been told by somebody else.

Full staffing is about 460 controllers (for the 24/7 operation) and 130 or so support staff (most of them weekdays 9-5). On an average Tuesday morning there would usually be a little over 100 controllers and somewhere around 100 support staff in the building.

[Woody Box]

18. kick

:patriot: