Black ops and the new Flight 93 movie

[SSX]

I've been seeing reports all day on the news about the trailer for the new movie about United's Flight 93. The newscritters keep asking the question, "are we ready for this yet?" Oddly enough I have not seen the actual trailer on TV, just on the news. Anyone out there think this is part of a propaganda campaign to heighten the 9/11 fear just before the elections?
Keep the fever up on the news, create controversy, delay the opening of the film until a little closer to the elections,9/11, fear, 9/11, fear, go vote.
The attempts to tie 9/11 into every speech by the Admin. is no longer working. A picture is worth a thousand words. Just thinkin'

[ClusterFreak]

1. Interesting perspective...

You could have something here, hard to say for sure whether its part of a grand plan, but a movie like this would certainly be welcomed by those on the right who like to instill fear to ensure obedience.

[Canuckistanian]

2. Even Rush was talking about the "it's too soon" thing

Of course, it was the libruls who were saying it, because we think 9/11 "was just a fluke".

It's always good to listen to Rush. That way, I can understand myself.

[Joanne98]

3. Alot of people think 93 was shot down.

It had a very large debris field. But I suppose the movie will be about heroism. LET'S ROLL!

[Hardrada]

7. Has anyone seen Lisa Beamer on TV lately?

Thought she'd have something to say about this.

[Joanne98]

9. I haven't.

[SSX]

11. CNN interviewed Alice Hoagland

She was mother of Mark Bingham. They also interviewed Sean Smith of Newsweek who said all of the families involved approved of the movie.
cnn. com has a video of the interview up on their homepage. scroll down to "free videos".

[hwmnbn]

4. you have a point, SSX .....

Interesting to find out when it is scheduled for release nationwide.

Just checked their official site and it is scheduled for release on April 28. I've not heard anything about this movie except here on DU.

http://www.flight93themovie.com/index.php

[xray s]

5. I think it will remind people we STILL haven't captured bin Laden

let's hope so

[savemefromdumbya]

19. OH YES! wanted dead or alive!

[enigma000]

6. and Syriana and Why We Fight and Fahrenheit 911 and

V for Vendetta didn't have its own anti-Bush agenda? I'm not so sure Hollywood is about to crank out a bunch of pro-bushwar films anytime soon.......

[SSX]

8. which makes it all the more interesting.

All the movies you mentioned have an anti-Bush slant. This one,at least from what little I have gleaned from snippets on the news and interviews w/ family members is supposed to be a realistic depiction of the events w/o sensationalizing events. What better avenue for Bush support than American heroes taking down the terrorists and saving us from further destruction being released on the big screen prior to the elections. I also think there has been a couple of tv movies and a play on the subject that have already been released w/o near the hype.

[ChristianLibrul]

10. Flight 93 was shot down

There's no question. Two unimpeachable and independent sources--one law enforcement, one Air Force--told me within days of 9-11 that wreckage from Flight 93 was found eight miles from the impact site. Since then, several other sources have confirmed this fact. And transcripts were released recently quoting Cheney as saying he issued the order to shoot it down.

Now, it was the right thing to do. Who knows what its target was? It was a terrible decision, but the right one. And it's easy to understand why it was the right order to give. So why are they still lying to us? Can republicans utter a single sentence without lying about something? Apparently not.

[Disturbed]

12. Who knows what its target was?

The White House or Congress.

[petgoat]

31. I've seen a suggestion the target was Camp David. nt

[savemefromdumbya]

21. that's if it was flight 93?

[SSX]

26. The question is not was it shot down or crashed,

those questions can be debated in another thread. But given this cabal's penchant for lying to the people, my thoughts are that they may be creating an opportunity to use whatever happened to rekindle the fear card that has been used for so long by purposefully creating controversy about the movie and using the media to fuel it.
Has anyone seen actual interviews of people who went screaming and crying from the theaters after watching rhe trailers? If so who are they?

[Neil Lisst]

13. They shot it down, and covered it up with the hero story.

Good Lord, the airplane was scattered over miles, and that required a high up mid air explosion that utterly destroyed the airplane.

Just like with Pat Tilman and Jessica Lynch, they make up some bullshit story.

[OutsidetheBox]

14. Blasted out of the sky, covering it up through propaganda

Cheney to NORAD, giving orders to shoot down: "Let's Roll!"

[Neil Lisst]

16. exactly. They couldn't let it get any closer, had to take it down

over a rural area.

And they all know that if you're going to lie, lie big. They were heroes!! They may have been heroes, but the plane was shot down by a missle. IMHO.

[petgoat]

33. "They couldn't let it get any closer"

Well that's a puzzling issue. If the plane was headed for DC, it would have been over Blair Witch
country for at least ten minutes more. So why were they in such a hurry to shoot it down?

[me b zola]

15. Olbermann played the full trailer last night

I don't know how to describe it. There were quick cuts to NORAD talking about scrambling planes. I thought--when did they scramble any planes?

[mcscajun]

18. There were planes "scrambled" by NORAD that day.

Just too little, too late, and too disorganized.

[mcscajun]

17. The trailer is only playing in theaters showing "Inside Man" so far...

...that's at least the story I read today.

I saw the trailer last weekend before "Inside Man", and it was somewhat disturbing.

[Disturbed]

22. Was Flight 93 shot down?

http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/nbbw.cgi

[Marie26]

20. This might be an odd question

Why are people so upset about this movie? I don't understand. On ABC News, they said that audiences actually broke out screaming "no,no" at the previews, & got upset that they were subjected to the trailer. Apparently there are efforts to boycott this film. The correspondent broke up while she was talking about the movie to Charlie Gibson, who also looked on the verge of tears. This will sound horrible - but it was five years ago. 3,000 people died, and yes, it was horrible. But we have had national tragedies before & gotten over them. Why are we seemingly unable to heal from 9/11? I understand why the families & friends of those who died would be upset at this movie, but it was apparently made w/the support of the Flight 93 families. Why are strangers still so traumatized, five years later, that they can't stand the sight of a movie about 9/11? It's like, we as a nation, are still suffering a massive case of PTSD. And I don't understand.

I think this is all connected w/the way that Bush has kept 9/11 alive in the national consciousness & dragged us straight into war w/o giving the nation a chance to heal & recover. It's like we're still in shock. Which might be what they want, because a patient in shock will take whatever medicine you offer.

[SSX]

23. I agree totally

amd I wonder how much of the reaction is real and how much is being manufactured.

[Rainscents]

24. I don't remeber who...

Either Rummy or Chenney did said... Flight 93 was shot down! They slipped and said this.

[petgoat]

34. Rumsfeld referred to the "the people who attacked the United States

in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/27/rumsfeld.flt93/

He also predicted both the WTC strike and the Pentagon strike in conversation with Rep. Cox
just minutes before they occurred.

That's why Rummy is still Secy of Defense; they can't let him run around loose.

[file83]

25. Well, first of all - the whole premise behind the "climax" of the film

is fabricated - no one has ANY clue as to what really took that plane down. No one. Sure we've all heard the Urban Legend that the people on board the plane beat up the pilots and during the brave struggle, the plane crashed.

But it's just modern folklore. No one witnessed it. Even if we are to believe that the last words heard were "let's roll", the events that took place afterwards are completely unknown to anyone.

So, this movie is really just a work of fiction inspired by unknown events.

This movie is the dictionary definition of "propaganda", because it's being sold as the "truth".

[rman]

27. I understand the movie reveals that there is no plane

at the supposed crash site.

[greyl]

32. Why do you keep repeating that bs?

As I told you before, you misunderstand. You are repeating a falsehood. Are you doing it knowingly?

[petgoat]

35. Oh there is a plane at the crash site? Got pictures?

rman--the A&E cable TV movie "Flight 93" opened and closed with the emergency personnel stating
there was no plane wreckage. Are you sure the new movie uses this motif too?

[greyl]

37. You'll see rman's red herring and raise your own, eh?

Conversations actually go places when the participants in them have respect for logical progression of debate.
http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/Logical%20Fallacies.htm#red-herring

And yes, most of the plane is in that hole.

[petgoat]

38. "most of the plane is in that hole" You have evidence for this

opinion, I suppose.

[greyl]

39. To remind you,

this thread is about a movie and psyops.

Are you saying no plane crashed there? If so, what is your evidence? While your at it, do you think Barry Bonds should be barred from the Hall of Fame? If so, why?

[petgoat]

40. You didn't answer the question. Where is the evidence?

You stated confidently that there's a plane in that hole. I'd just like to know
upon what evidence you base this opinion, because I've never seen it.

[greyl]

41. The relevant unanswered question here is

why rman keeps repeating the falsehood that this movie says there was no plane there.

As I patiently explained to you in the Skepticism, Science, and Pseudoscience group that you entered to disrupt, nobody is required to respond to every red herring of yours, or to every already previously dealt with issue.
The rules of logic work. Please try them out as soon as you get the chance.
Show respect to the OP here, and start a brand new thread about this issue, or kick an already existing one. Then it won't be a red herring any longer.

edit: format

[SSX]

43. thanks. n/t

[SSX]

28. 2 recent articles got me thinking along these lines

March 23, 2006 WASHINGTON (Reuters) -" The Pentagon will review whether it is proper for the military to pay news organizations to publish positive stories secretly written by U.S. forces, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Thursday."

From the Sun Herald (http://www.sundayherald.com/54975) ..."This is the age of information warfare, and details of how this new military doctrine will affect everyone on the planet are contained in a report, entitled The Information Operations Roadmap, commissioned and approved by US secretary of defence Donald Rumsfeld and seen by the Sunday Herald."

"The Pentagon has already signed off $383 million to force through the document’s recommendations by 2009. Military and intelligence sources in the US talk of “a revolution in the concept of warfare”. The report orders three new developments in America’s approach to warfare:

lFirstly, the Pentagon says it will wage war against the internet in order to dominate the realm of communications, prevent digital attacks on the US and its allies, and to have the upper hand when launching cyber-attacks against enemies."

Are not democratic voters and anyone who dissents from this government the enemy?

"Secondly, psychological military operations, known as psyops, will be at the heart of future military action. Psyops involve using any media – from newspapers, books and posters to the internet, music, Blackberrys and personal digital assistants (PDAs) – to put out black propaganda to assist government and military strategy. Psyops involve the dissemination of lies and fake stories and releasing information to wrong-foot the enemy."

To assist government strategy? What is the strategy of this government at this point other than to stay in power by any means neccessary?

[SSX]

29. and the just released 9/11 tapes of phone calls from the WTC

What else does Rove have in his bag of tricks to garner sympathy that he can unleash just before the October "Iran Go Boom" surprise?

[Duer 157099]

30. You know, if I were Bush, I'd cringe every time 9/11 were mentioned

That seems logical, doesn't it? What is it about our current upside-down mentality that has turned what should be Bush's most shameful moment EVER (and he's had alot of them) into his rally cry for glory?

Why can't the dems effectively make this oh-so-obvious point to the huddled masses?

(I know I know, we all know, but still I just had to voice it)

[petgoat]

36. Why can't the dems effectively make this oh-so-obvious point

I have my own ideas, but I'd like to hear yours.

[SSX]

42. They become distracted and do not stay on message.

Kind of like this thread. I originally posted it in GD to see if I could get any reaction and research into the movie being used as propaganda by the government. The questions I posed had nothing to due with the actual plot of the movie or it's factualness( is that a word?)The question is- is the movie being used a a visual rah-rah fear card to be played before the elections and is the Admin. behind it? The discussion quickly turned to whether there was any plane left?, was it shot down?, did it crash? The thread was moved to this forum with little to no response to the original premise being addressed. I am to assume from the responses that my premise is not worth discussing. The Republicans have been great at taking a question making an outrageous statement that has nothing to do with the question and changing the discussion and thus killing the original question.(Scott McClellan 101) "Nothing to see, here move along".

[petgoat]

44. I can understand your frustration at having your thread

hijacked, and I'm sorry that I have contributed to that frustration.

Part of the problem with the topic is that it's impossible to prove one way or
the other so all we can do is speculate on people's motives. I think the profit
potential in a Flight 93 movie is ample motivation for anyone to do the movie
(also I imagine it would be rather cheap to make since the set is so limited)
but certainly elements in the gov't would like to exploit the propaganda
opportunity.

I prefer to discuss facts and the reasoning process rather than engage
in speculation, myself.

[Duer 157099]

45. If I understood the original premise, then it is very much worth

discussing. In fact it is, imo, critical. Did I correctly understand the question to be about the Bush administration's repeated and apparently successful attempts to capitalize on the tragedy that is 9/11? That this is prep for the November elections?

I say to them: Bring.It.On. Because, in much the way that this thread was instantly diverted into a discussion of the strange anomolies that surround 9/11, over time that will seep into the public at large's consciousness (I HOPE). And any vehicle that facilitates this is a good thing.

Let's keep 9/11 in the front of everyone's faces, until we can all rest that we know the truth.

[SSX]

46. I agree that 9/11 should stay in the forefront of discussions

regarding this admin.'s lies and cover ups. What I am trying to ascertain is the news media being used by the government through promotion of controversy of this movie to rekindle patriotism through visual enactment.
What I am going for is trying to find out where these news reports on the film's trailer receiving these kind of reactions being produced. And is there any government involvement? We've all heard about the fake news put out by private entities and the various government agencies being broadcast as "real" news.( see http://www.prwatch.org/) I am trying to see if this is the case. I'm looking at the producers of the movie, Universal Studios, and researching the names of interviewees that are quoted as to having watched the trailer. If I turn anything up I will report back. If not,I will tighten my tin foil chin strap a little tighter, look down some more dark alleys and prepare for the bumpy ride ahead. "Roll it"