How Can You Or Anyone Use What You Know About 9-11 To Get More Truth?

[Christophera]

If you think you understand something or know something about 9-11; that you or anyone can use to get more truth, identify what you understand, think, suspect etc and what evidence you have, and who you would approach to engage the use of the information; then post it here.

Goal:

What is most useful of what we know and how do we use it?

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. The disappearance of the Top Leadership

during the most critical hours of the attack.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Myers, and everyone under them went on ignore during the attack. I have links to all of their original accounts of what they did that morning. Their deliberate dereliction of duty is all we need to prove and I think the documented evidence speaks for itself.

I think that this is the most useful because it doesn't require any speculation. Their words and actions are enough.

[Christophera]

2. A Better Aspect Of An Unenforceable Law- Attitude Ridden Area Politically

The peoples attitude on that issue is that "they are incompetent and all government is" or, "That has been happening since the beginning of time." A glut of overgeneralization.

Then, .......... who can we turn to to get the laws enforced?


Still, it is one of the better of that type of event that officials should be accountable for incompetence and neglect if that is what it is supposed to be.

If people were going to get fired up about it, they would have already.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. Most people don't know what really happened that day

and if the M$M doesn't cover it, it didn't happen.

I think the deliberate stand down that morning is a big deal. And I think there is enough documentation to make a case. Plus no tinfoil is required to prove what happened.

[Chomp]

4. I agree

that the MIHOPpers and MIHOP Sceptics can find common ground on this issue.

The only problem is that one side will believe that the top brass were out of sight because they were busy orchestrating 4 acts of mass murder.

The other side will say that they were nowhere to be seen because they are incomptant, cowardly snakes with a track record of grossly derelicting their duty.

There's common ground and at the same time, er...clear blue water between the positions (to mix my geographical metaphors).

[Christophera]

10. What Happened-EXACTLY: Collapse or Something ?????? @%$ else

Which is the main reason the WTC towers are so important to focus on.


What happened to them was unique beyond any description.




If it were a unique, custom handgun.........



say a 57.8 caliber known throughout the world, and used for murder, forensic examination of the bullet would tell us immediately which gun, narrowing the field immensely.



Continuous explosions in with a unique delay sequence descibed by fire fighters allowing free fall.

http://www.letsroll911.org/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

A very custom demolition.

[Christophera]

6. Understand The Hat Factor, But If Standown Was THE Issue, It Would Have

already been enough to motivate people to get over their differences and preserve their democracy, rights and freedoms.

The reason I started this thread was to compare all the issues and the comparitive effect of focusing, working on one as compared to another. Important issues such as the standown, initially, can only be addressed with an accountable government because there are so many questions that need to be addressed before specific completion as to culpability, and we do not have an accountable government so basically we can do nothing with it. Everybody knows that our air defense was not functioning and has depended on accountable government for years making clear that the issue is DOA until accountability is created.

It is a big deal, but it appears not the right kind of deal. And yes, media coverage has a great deal to do with it. Aganl, how do we make media accountable to fully and impartially report facts? Same problem.

I do have a strategy to deal with media and have made and robust web site about it but it appears to be way over the heads of most Americans. Hopefully you can see it, and how natural, comprehensive and timely it is.

I'll start you on this page,

http://algoxy.com/poly/children_and_tv.html

because most of us now were raised partially by TV.

There, is an extensive and very advanced strategy to take back the space between us, our government and our Constitution in its highest ideal.

[libertypirate]

5. I have had a very redundant thought about this...

There is evidence I have not been much of a collector, but the media, and specifically the polls do more to establish reality then reality does.

What happens when you see a poll that states 63% of Americans believe....?

Your perception is set, the most dangerous perception of the truth is an assumption.

There is a major assumption that these polls are not being mucked with, let me just say they mess with everything.

Polls I suspect are no different.

A poll can establish belief to more people then it can measure what is truely believed; and that is dangerous to finding the truth.

Assumptions lead one to believe that the government is not capable of "pulling off" a 9-1 1 opp.

Assumptions lead to one still believing that electronic voting glitches, are not effecting the outcome results.

Assumptions are the grey area where the evil fucks who muck with the truth live.

[Christophera]

7. Attitude Based In Assumption & It Controls Perceptions

And defintely polls can be faked to direct those that pay attention to media too much.

[mirandapriestly]

12. Very true, but I have noticed these assumptions personally

When I tell people about 9-11 and "lay out the case" with the non air response, the "Omission" Commission, all of the suspicious irrefutable info from that day's behavior, they usually accept it in a very blase' way, they don't think I'm crazy at all, but then they go on to another topic. People are just sort of traumatized and they don't even want to think about what is happening any more, except those who are in denial.

[Christophera]

17. Our Biggest Problem W/9-11 Truth Is Psychological-Fear

People are traumatized, not just sort of either. Their entire belief system has been rocked hard.

It is a learned behavior with dynamics. First there is fear them their is a sense of entitlement, like freedom is free and they are entitled to it automatically. As if those, us, who are unafraid to realize the truth and talk about it are some how impinging on their freedom.

[petgoat]

8. "If people were going to get fired up about it, they would have already."

People don't know. I didn't know until I read a pamphlet thrust into my unwilling hands and
learned there was no air defense for 90 minutes on 9/11. I couldn't believe it. I'd assumed
that the attacks took place simultaneously and that 93 might have been shot down.

90 minutes? I went to a chat room for an aerospace stock and asked: "Is this true?"
The answer I got was a chorus calling for me to move to France.

Yeah, it was true.

What are the obvious anomalies?

The coverups: The destruction of the WTC steel, the crummy reports from FEMA and NIST
about the WTC collapses, the missing black boxes, the three minute gap in the 93 CVR,
the 115 omissions or distortiong in the 9CR.

The fact that the SS did not whisk Bush away from the Booker school, Rummy's three stories
about his whereabouts that morning, Rummy playing Florence Nightengale when the nation was
under attack, the discrepancy between Mineta's 9:20 story about Cheney's shootdown order
in the WH bunker and the 9CR claim that Cheney didn't get there until 9:58.

The missing Pentagon videotapes. The fact that they ID'd the hiujackers so fast.

[Christophera]

9. People DID Know-Media Neglected To Keep Reminding Them

The lack of air defense was on the news for at least 2 months off and on throughout the days after 9-11. People forgot what wasn't getting explained. They were set off the trail by the hijacker, attack, fire, collapse lie, and failed to do critical thinking on the instant ID of the hijackers, the destruction of evidence etc, they were distracted by war the media did hype.

And you are absolutely correct about the obvious anomalies.

Let me add that there are anomalies that are obvious that do not require experts or authority to confirm. The implications of those obvious anomalies are profound. They will never be shared by media unless the people recognize them because the experts media depends on will not. Right now that information is obscured by less profound and less meaningful info, but few realize that fact.

This thread is about all the other information that people did get from media that did not alert them to the scam that is not profound enough on its own to justify peoples outrage now.

THX for you sincerely provided input, right on!

[canetoad]

11. I don't post very much

but read everything about 911 I can get my hands on - even the debunkers. As yet I can see many many things that point to mihop or lihop, and very little to inarguably support the official story.

Each time there is some mainstream reporting of alternative 911 theories, such as Scholars, Charlie Sheen etc, there is an influx of posts moved to this forum from GD. People starting to question for the first time, after seeing the Pentagon no Plane flash, or Loose Change. The temptation is to go, 'yadda yadda,' when someone who had not given a second thought to questioning the official story watches Loose Change and thinks they have seen the light. And I'm not even as completely immersed in the topic as many of you here are.

So, my answer to the original post is that anything at all which makes people sit up, pay attention, ask questions, is the best kind of way of getting the news out. It matters not if they progress through all the available research, or stop short at the Pentagon flash. The complacent belief of the official story must be replaced by a mainstream, grass-roots belief that there are questions that still need satisfactory answers.

For this reason I resent the mindless, droning debunkers who offer no logical arguments, preferring to coat their words in a condecending sarcasm. Their minds are closed to further investigation and questioning.

For these debunkers, here is a scenario:
Osama Bin Laden has been captured, and is about to stand trial in the USA. You are the prosecutor charged with convicting him.
What evidence would you present to the court?

[mirandapriestly]

13. You won't be getting any answers on that last one:)

Good observations and I noticed the posts from Loose Change, but then notice the "debunkers" immediately start saying that Loose Change is full of "outright lies", etc.....in a sort of Rovian way, like, who cares if the overall truth is there if there are a few points that might be debatable a la the memo from Dan Rather. It works too, people will dismiss an article or documentary when they are told that. I have even seen several authors or filmmakers retract stuff that turned out to be TRUE because of this tactic.

[canetoad]

16. At least some interest was stirred up.

Say a hundred DU'ers watched loose change last week. Half of them had a light bulb go on over their heads. 20 of those posted about it, one or two got put off by the debunkers!

That still leaves 15 or more who will stay, follow links, get interested, maybe get involved. Tell others to watch Loose Change. I believe there is a version 3 due out soon, and its too late to retract it because its sitting on lots of computers and DVDs right now.

I think you'd be surprised how many people outside USA take for granted that 911 was in some way the child of the Bush admin. It was ironic that they used the term Shock and Awe to describe the Iraqi bombings when they had so recently and successfully used the same tactic on their own citizens. And I hate to say this, but at least the Iraqis are putting up a fight.

[Christophera]

14. When Others Agree On Critical Issue That Explains Free Fall, Folk Stand Up

You have a really valid point when saying anything that makes them sit up is is a good way to get the news out. What is being said is that the fact that when numerous people are posting various aspects with evidence that makes sense, those viewing realize there is some agreement amongst that group. That reduces their fear levels to see people agreeing openly, even if it is an amorphus type agreement. The mass response with evidence says the answers were not satisfactory, did not address evidence.

canetoad wrote

So, my answer to the original post is that anything at all which makes people sit up, pay attention, ask questions, is the best kind of way of getting the news out. It matters not if they progress through all the available research, or stop short at the Pentagon flash. The complacent belief of the official story must be replaced by a mainstream, grass-roots belief that there are questions that still need satisfactory answers.

Good post!

What I'd like to see is people agreeing on one issue that explains some absolute factor of 9-11 at the WTC. I think that the best is free fall because that was the dominant event that morning and it also shows demolition way before you even try to describe how. The quantity of available research on 9-11 needs to be prioritized.

Since free fall was the dominant event and both towers did that, almost identically, any agreement showing an intentional deception relating to both towers that helps explain free fall is a very powerful agreement. Now that will make people stand up.

[canetoad]

15. I agree

that the collapse of the towers was the most emotional, most shockinly-awesome event and is more likely to capture attention, but I wonder if there are still too many raw wounds associated with the towers that it may have the opposite effect.

And without the steel, the evidence, I doubt there is any way of proving beyond (justified) doubt that the collapse was the result of a demolition.

Personally I believe that the conspiracy will start to unravel on the question of Who Benefits? And that boils down to financial benefit. Out of interest, someone was moaning that poor Silverstein actually lost money, on another thread. Crunch these numbers; bought lease of WTC 3.2 bil. Collected around 7 bil insurance, conveniently getting rid of building that needed so much refurbishment that if it was a car, it would be a write-off. New WTC cost estimated about 15 bill. Containing, get this, 12.2 million square feet of leasable space. Would appreciate if someone in the know can let us know how much a square foot goes for in lower Manhattan.

I digress. The steel has gone, but people are slacker about covering up electronic and paper trails. I predict a breakthrough will come from a completely unexpected source.

I'm not sure of the value of all 911 researchers focussing on one aspect of the day. I think its good that there are so many streams of investigation, and how often the same old ground is gone over as it only ncreases the chance of someone making the crucial breakthrough.

[Christophera]

18. Crucial Break Through Is When INTENT Is Clearly Shown

I'm not sure of the value of all 911 researchers focussing on one aspect of the day. I think its good that there are so many streams of investigation, and how often the same old ground is gone over as it only ncreases the chance of someone making the crucial breakthrough.

I am certain that a number of the lines of investigation are based in misinformation, which eventually will be used to dismiss other valid information, after that the misinformation is identified as such and truth goes down the tubes. I've already seen it happen at least 3 times, each time costing huge public support. That is how 5 years has past with out any result from the good people in government. It is up to us to focus on something that can logically compel the good people in government to unify and engage legal mechanisms they cannot now becuase of lack of evidence. Evidence can be created from data by focus, but the focus needs to be shows an area of INTENT.

[mirandapriestly]

22. Yes, It was the lack of air defense that got me, too

and that is what I always tell people about.

[Christophera]

23. AIr Defense Is Biggest Q About Big $ For Readiness For Last 30 Years

I do believe tax payers were defrauded, at least once if not multiple times. But, ................. how will they recover from this fatal, gross neglect. How will they assure that it not happen again?

What issue will shake their isolation, their indifference to lawless government and make them forget their differences and unite?

We've already seen the awareness in this thread that we view the standown, or lack of accountability on it, as very disturbing. Like disturbing enough to walk down the street chanting "Truth 9-11" or somthing, but the general public. They know the defenses were not in the air as we've been told all of our lives throught th ecold war that there were always planes in the air. We all paid for it.

What is it that they might know in addition to the stand down issue that they migh combine with the stand down that might make them become active like we are? What would be cathartic to using what they already know?

THINK!

[Christophera]

24. AIr Defense Is Biggest Q About Big $ For Readiness For Last 30 Years

I do believe tax payers were defrauded, at least once if not multiple times. But, ................. how will they recover from this fatal, gross neglect. How will they assure that it not happen again?

What issue will shake their isolation, their indifference to lawless government and make them forget their differences and unite?

We've already seen the awareness in this thread that we view the standown, or lack of accountability on it, as very disturbing. Like disturbing enough to walk down the street chanting "Truth 9-11" or somthing, but the general public. They know the defenses were not in the air as we've been told all of our lives throught the cold war that there were always planes in the air. We all paid for it.

What is it that they might know in addition to the stand down issue that they might combine with the stand down that might make them become active like we are? What would be cathartic to using what they already know?

THINK!

[DemInDistress]

19. How do we combat denials of "FOIL" requests? The evidence

we seek lays in the belly of DC. what do they (BFEE) have to hide? 911 was a public event a world event and
denying access to pertinent documents, videos and photo's only make them look more GUILTY. I have recently found more evidence of explosions (flashes,sparkies) from both towers at terrorize.dk look here http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem3/index2.php
scroll down to the 6 (jpg,gif??) boxes. watch it a few times. what are the flashes? CONTROLLED DETONATIONS?
Then there are others higher up in WT2 (100th floor) what cause them? Fluorescent bulbs blowing (lol).

check this page out scroll down to the 5 (jpg,gif??) boxes for watch the flashes, what are they? sure looks like the signature of a controlled demolition to me.

give me your opinion. http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem3/

edit to add link

[Christophera]

20. Yes NO COURTS: Scale And Proportion Of Events Must Relate To Conclusion

Yes, yes, yes ....... the courts are not recognizing and following laws, making all routes of gaining information from government sources blocked. Keep it on the list of "things to get", but, at this time, don't get worked up about it because major indiscretions such as the election sabotage seems to dwarf the subject.

We need a nice simple lie that shows an intent to decieve covering a key aspect of a well known event that already is a big question in itself.

Scale And Proportion Of Events Must Relate To Conclusion:

In other words. There are many, many mysteries related to 9-11. Flashes in the smoke may be discrete and separate uses of demolitions materials. Such could be used to direct the specific falling components. Study locations timing and you may learn. However, the scale and speed of the towers descent belies any association with small flashes as contributory to the plumes of gravel and sand or upward heaving assemblies of steel 400 feet. Then, total pulverization at ground zero.

[Christophera]

21. NON Respnse On FOIL - COMPLAINT FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE

A COMPLAINT FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE is probably the correct form. Get as many plaintiffs as you can.