Andy Stephenson: Gannon = Guckert = Gosch?

[HamiltonHabs32]

Older MSNBC Video Clip featuring the late Andy Stephenson, You've probably already watched this but it is very interesting topic non-the-less

Video: http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/04/gannon-guckert-gosch.html

Mindblowing stories are always... well, mindblowing, here is an archived LibertyPost file about the topic http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=88263

[HamdenRice]

1. No Gannon = Guckert but does not = Gosch

I normally would not respond to a non 9/11 post that has been dumped here because it sounds like a "wacky" conspiracy theory, but will do so here, because in a way, the famous DU thread on Gannon/Gosch is probably why 9/11 theories are kept out of GD.

The story of Gannon being a prostitute calling himself "Bulldog" and in reality being Guckert, was broken I believe on Americablog. This did indeed open up a lot of questions about why a gay prostitute was in the white house, and revived interest in a near forgotten, but bizarre, incident, confirmed in the mainstream press, concerning the Bush I administration: that a creepy Republican operative was taking boy prostitutes on mid night tours of the White House. This got people worked up over child sex slavery, and someone on DU got the idea that Gannon/Guckert was a kid (Johnny Gosch) who had gone missing from Nebraska, which was the center of an apparently real child sex scandal and banking scandal in the 80s (the so called Franklin scandal), and that
Gosch had been brought up as a child sex slave, subjected to MK Ultra type mind control, and was a kind of journalist Manchurian candidate.

DUers themselves eventually debunked this notion -- mainly because Guckert has a paper trail going back into childhood that doesn't match Gosch.

But this consumed DU for days and when it was shown to be untrue, right wing blogs had a field day. I think it was around that time that the pejorative, DUmmies, for DUers, took off in the right wing blogosphere.

I think since then, the Mods have been very wary of allowing DU to be embarrassed like that again, and hence even legitimate questions about 9/11 are consigned to the dungeon.

BTW, there were a lot of fruitful avenues for research about just how truly creepy the Gannon/Guckert situation was, but we were sidetracked by disinformation that we ourselved generated or perpetuated.

One alternative avenue of research was my first big post that rocketed around the blogosphere -- namely that the connections between Gannon/Guckert and other unsavory characters was actually more interesting. I think the key was a guy named Aziz al-Taee, an Iraqi American who had the amazing career of having:

1. been convicted of being involved in the biggest crack distribution ring on the east coast but gets an astonishingly light sentence;

2. was convicted of fraud in the sale of electronics

3. becomes a leading member of the Iraqi American Council

4. appears at the Council on Foreign Relations as an expert in the months leading up to the war, as a representative of those Iraqis who want the US to liberate their country

5. appears on CNN, PBS and other legitimate news outlets as an expert

6. goes barnstorming around right wing rallies with Gannon, and is interviewed by Gannon

7. shows up in Iraq asking Gannon like soft ball questions at press briefings given by the military

8. goes into business with Nick Berg

9. is reported to be the last person to see and speak to his "business partner," Nick Berg.

Here is my post -- but I retract what I said about Todd Blodgett, because I later learned that that was disinfo.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3238821&mesg_id=3238821

That's the way things work, unfortunately; a lot of good info gets contaminated by bad info -- and Gannon=Gosch was bad info.

[Old and In the Way]

2. Good recap.

It was a fascinating collection of threads and an excellent example of collaborative "open source" journalism. It's too bad that it would get such negative PR....I think it actually showed how a hypothesis could be developed (Guckert = Gosch), but with, many real time contributions, eventually refute that premise. Nothing particularly wacky about that, IMHO.

One thing I remember that piqued my interest was when Gosch's mother was made aware of the discussion and she seemed to corroborate that Guckert was indeed her long lost son. I never heard how that ended up. I know they finally traced Guckert back to a HS yearbook....IIRC, no one could find anything on Jeff from the time after he graduated form college and when he showed up on the scene as a Talon correspondent. Did his history ever get filled in?

[Jose Diablo]

4. That HS picture was good detective work

I can remember in HS, there was some students that refused to have their picture taken or published. At that time, I could never understand why, I put it down as they couldn't get the money for a professional photographer. I've wondered since then if the government can go back and change the 'publicly' available yearbooks to revise history more or less. Probably if it was important enough I guess they could. But if a HS picture does exist, it would be hard dispute who you are. Even aging 40-50 years, there are computer programs that can decipher a then and now to say yes or no, its the same person. Problem is, finding which HS they attended.

Edit: BTW, on the 'skip tracing' of gannon-guckert, it's hard as hell to track people after school, unless the SSN is known. With a SSN, and the individual continues to use that same SSN, then tracking is a piece of cake. It used to be fairly easy to get a new SSN, but the administration is far more cautious in issuing new numbers. Plus with the IRS's help on verifying dependent and forcing parents to get SSN as soon as someone is born, about the only way someone could get a different SSN is to assume somebody elses number. That could be done. But you notice the Soc SEc now sends out periodic account statements, so in that case extra income would be seen, plu you can bet there is some computer massaging the data looking for 'imposible' employment situations indicated by the data.

It used to be possible to read the obituaries, looking for someone about the same age that was born and died in different states as in most cases the birth state never knew when someone dies, so it would be simple to get a birth certificate and with that a new drivers license and SSN. But nowdays, I doubt that could happen with the feds coordinating the records. We hear about the new regs on drivers licenses, that's what it's all about, not so much terrorists as they will get a stolen foriegn passport. It's about tracking down deadbeat dads for alimoney and child support payments. Same thing with this immagration issue now popping-up.

The government doesn't like people just disappearing and changging their identity. Used to be, they didn't care, but now it's a law and order state, soon to be a police state. All this changed when the USSR went down the toilet, the government could then focus inward rather than at an outside 'enemy'.

It wasn't Junior that started all these changes, it started in the late 80's. And it looks like to me, the brother became much more interested in average people were doing around that time.

But you know, the criminals stealing ID and cracking credit reports getting credit cards, that has really ballooned since the 80's also. Right around the time Russia tanked, there was a large influx of crooks from the former USSR, thus the increased interest in ID could be justified by the police as there are some real pro crooks that cut their teeth on avoiding the KGB. Maybe thats why we have become more like the USSR as many of the USSR's problems became our law enforcement problems when these people came here.

OK, when Germany tanked, we get the Nazi's, when Cuba went communist, we get Ciba's crooks (not just the political opposition, tbut also the crooks) and the when the USSR tanked, we end up with the worst of their crooks too. I have no doubt that we are getting a lot of crooks from Mexico also. No wonder our country is so screwed-up. Maybe we do need a revolution, to clear out the riff-raff.

[HamiltonHabs32]

3. I could have swore...

I posted this under General Discussion.. I didnt know there was a 911 board here... I guess I should go parusing more often

Well Since I'm here I might as well add a link to an actual 911 Conspiracy theory, the Charlie Sheen Interview

http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/03/charlie-sheen-questions-official-911.html

[Beam Me Up]

5. Aziz al-Taee -- Nick Berg -- Free Republic --

Somewhere, it would take some time to find, there is an ancient DU thread which shows how FREEPERS exposed Berg's parents as being members of Internationals ANSWER and that that may have led to his death.

Here is Aziz al-Taee at a podium with an FR banner in front:




On Edit: it might be worthwhile to review this thread if anyone is of a mind:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3238821

And here's another one:



Another image from this "Rally for America"

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

6. "DUers themselves eventually debunked this notion...

...mainly because Guckert has a paper trail going back into childhood that doesn't match Gosch."

I'm not trying to challenge this notion, but I would like to read the threads you say debunked the Gannon/Gosch theory.

Seems to me the clearly best way to put that one to rest would be DNA comparisons between Gannon and Mrs. Gosch who I understand is still living. Was this ever done? If not, I wonder why.

[salvorhardin]

7. Why should Guckert submit to a DNA comparison?

As slimey a individual as he is, we do have some rights left in this country.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

8. I wasn't suggesting that he be...

...forced to, but why should he refuse such a request?

[RedSock]

9. Create a "Conspiracy" Folder

Why don't the mods create a separate "Copnspiracy" Folder and leave the 9/11 Folder for threads about ... ummm ... 9/11?

[greyl]

10. Right to privacy. It's pretty important these days, ya know? nt