Mohammed Atta alive and well and this is what he looks like:

[seatnineb]

More here:

http://www.madcowprod.com/05022005.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x38702#38905

[savemefromdumbya]

1. Is this a shot from Jack abramoff's Casino Cruz boat?

[mirandapriestly]

2. Wouldn't you love to see one like that of Tom DeLay

or any of those mofos for that matter.

[mirandapriestly]

3. So that guy is saying that it was him not the

Other Atta? and this is to coverup for the other Atta's un Islamic Fundamentalist behavior? Where did the drag queen photo come from? Who is the brunette girl?

[seatnineb]

4. Hypothesis:

Dan Hopsicker has gone on the record in this very forum implying that all the witnesses that he(Hopsicker) had interviewed were adamant that the man that they saw was none other than the Egyptian Mohammed Atta:

Which would be this man(who's real name by the way was Mohammed El-Amir JR):



In the words of Dan Hopsicker:
Wed May-04-05 09:53 PM

frankly, i don't believe anyone COULD confuse atta's instantly-recognizable and permanently-grim visage for someone else.

and that's WITHOUT factoring in the eyewitness testimony of a half-dozen people.
<SNIP>
if you mean to suggest that these people--including her husband, the postman,the apartment manager, his wife--are all MISTAKEN in identifying Atta as the person they saw come in and out and go up and down the stairs on a daily basis for MONTHS... please state your reasons.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x38702#38866

Hopsicker then went onto confirm that these same witnesses were being harassed by the FBI not to speak regarding their encounters with Atta........

In the words of Dan Hopsicker:
Wed May-04-05 09:53 PM

under FBI duress. the same duress complained of by at least three other individuals, each of whom VOLUNTEERED it almost as soon as i walked through the door.
actually they burst out with it. these people were pissed off and they wanted to talk about it. and they did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x38702#38866

And that is the part I have a problem with......because I am pretty sure that if the FBI wanted to stop these people who had encountered Atta in Florida from talking.......then they would have stopped them!....maybe imposing something similar like the gag order that has been strapped on Sibel Edmunds.

Yet we still have these same "harrased by the FBI" witnesses who encountered "Atta" speaking openly about "Atta" to this Floridian journalist who goes by the name of Dan Hopsicker......

My hunch is that these witnesses did in fact encounter this very man BEFORE 9/11:



......who went by the name of Mohammed Atta /Arrajakki:

But because of a change to the 9/11 plotline (regarding the stories and profiles of some of the hijackers), POST 9/11 ,these same witnesses were "debriefed/harrassed" by the FBI into only being able to talk to journalists like Hopsicker so long as they said that the Atta they met was the Egyptian Atta:



Hopsicker should reckon with the fact that maybe the witnesses that he has interviewed have lied to him(under FBI duress!).

Yes they did meet Mohammed Atta:

But they met this Mohammed Atta:



......not this one:



It basically shows that something happened within the 1st 24-48 hrs after 9/11 that forced the authorities to ditch this spook/agent/mercenary:



.......and rendition this man :



...... into the 9/11 plot.

It might explain why his father has claimed on more than one occasion that his son ,Mohammed El Amir JR,
phoned him on 9/12/01.....

"He(Atta JR) telephoned me the day after(September 11).It was in the morning and as usual he asked me about my health and whether I had given up smoking yet.
I am absolutely sure that my son is somewhere in America or has been liquidated by the Americans"
Masterminds Of Terror.
Page 34.
By Yosri Fouda and Nick Fielding.

I can't prove the above but it is possibly one explanation as to why we have this situation.

I am still tryin' to work it out.........

[reprehensor]

5. Mohamed Atta Senior in U.S. Two Weeks Before 9.11 Attack

What do you make of this report?

http://www.madcowprod.com/08232005.html

While Atta’s father stood at the counter supervising the sending of the fax, he related, Atta and Marwan took chairs in the pharmacy waiting area. When Mohamed Atta impatiently got up out of his chair while the fax was being sent, Atta Senior spoke to him in a loud commanding voice...

“I recognized him immediately. He was very imperious, arrogant almost, big hand gestures, and an air of authority. I also remember that when he paid for the fax, he had a wallet that was larger in size than any I’ve ever seen. It sort of unfolded on the counter.”

“The FBI sent two young agents over to see me, but they already knew about Atta Senior’s visit, and so didn’t consider what we had to tell them to be any big deal,” he stated...

In television interviews after the attack Atta’s father had strenuously contended that his son had nothing to do with the 9.11 attack, even stating his son had phoned home on September 12th to assure him he was alive...

[seatnineb]

6. This is my personal opinion.........

And I say this as someone who has long admired.....and still admires the work of Dan Hopsicker........

But if you actually break down this particular Hopsicker article.......

You will notice there is only words....but no substance.

As an example:

In the words of Dan Hopsicker:
a number of credible witnesses called the Sarasota office of the FBI to report they had seen Atta’s father in Venice with his son ten days to two weeks before the attack.
http://www.madcowprod.com/08232005.html

WHICH "credible witnesses" saw Atta and his father...WHO were they?

The only explanation that Hopsicker offers is that one of these "credible witnesses" is a pharmamcist who was "Known to Hopsicker" over a period of 25 years......

That is hardly compelling evidence of anything..........

And when it comes to the crucial piece of evidence of the video tape that allegedly shows ATTA SR with ATTA JR in the pharmacy.......well surprise surprise.......that particular portion of the tape is missing!

In the words of Dan Hopsicker:
closed circuit videotape provided to the FBI with evidence of his presence(ATTA SR) has apparently been erased.
http://www.madcowprod.com/08232005.html

So there is still no substantial evidence of ATTA SR's presense at the pharmacy.........

Hopsicker then tries to portray ATTA SR as plain unreliable by citing the "CNN interview" that took place after the 7/7 bombings.....

In the words of Dan Hopsicker:

Mohammed Atta's father told CNN "Muslims are like nuclear bombs which have been activated." And he offered to finance future suicide bombings himself by charging the CNN crew a $5,000 fee for an interview, then giving the money to terrorist groups.
http://www.madcowprod.com/08232005.html

The CNN article itself can be found here.......

Speaking to CNN producer Ayman Mohyeldin Tuesday in his apartment in the upper-middle-class Cairo suburb of Giza, Mohamed el-Amir said he would like to see more attacks like the July 7 bombings of three London subway trains and a bus that killed 52 people, plus the four bombers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/19/atta.father.terror/index.html

If Atta SR did in fact say the above then he is dead wrong and bang out of order.....but that is IF he said the above....

CNN have been known to tell lies with regards to other hijacker relatives before..........

Here is an example:

(Ziad)Jarrah's family said he had spent some time in Afghanistan 18 months ago.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/18/inv.terror.jarrah/

But in fact Jarrah's family had adamantly denied that Jarrah had been to Afghanistan......


TIM PALMER: Had he(Ziad Jarrah) ever been to Afghanistan, as has been suggested?

JAMAL JARRAH(uncle of Ziad Jarrah): No. No. The rumour as I understand, sticks to Ziad, just to complete the story.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2001/s369744.htm

And the 9/11 commission itself has been caught lying it's big fat ass with regards to the statements of ATTA SR himself....

He(Atta JR) apparently placed one last call to his own father(Atta SR) on September 9.
9/11 CR.
Page 249.

But in the words of Atta SR:

"He(Atta JR) telephoned me the day after(September 11).It was in the morning and as usual he asked me about my health and whether I had given up smoking yet.
I am absolutely sure that my son is somewhere in America or has been liquidated by the Americans"
Masterminds Of Terror.
Page 34.
By Yosri Fouda and Nick Fielding.

Somewhere between the truths,half truths and lies that are spun by the likes of Hopsicker,CNN,ABC and the 9/11 commission is the truth behind 9/11.......and that truth maybe called Mohammed Arrajakki!

[Rich Hunt]

7. wait, which Atta IS that?

Is that the one who was the architecture student? I never bought that a crazy, hateful, wild-eyed man like the one who flew the plane had the presence of mind to do serious scholarship. Not to mention the fact that architecture programs are serious 'weed-out' schools designed to flush out those who would be reckless and invite liabilities and lawsuits. I was told this myself when I was studying architecture. They threw out two talented sketch artists because of plagiarism and a lack of dedication to principle. But I digress.

Anyway, surely there must be more than one guy named "Mohammed Atta" anyway.

[seatnineb]

8. It is the Atta who listened to the Beastie Boys......

It is the Atta who had a stripper gilrfriend.

It is the Atta who snorted coke.

It is the Atta who loved pork chops.

It is the Atta who wore fanny packs...

It is the Atta who disemboweled Kittens.

It is the Atta who claimed to have a 9 year old son to a French woman.

It is the Atta who already had a pilot's licence BEFORE arriving in the U.S.

And most importantly it is probably the Atta who claimed to be a Saudi prince.

The original 9/11 legend would have had these 2 individuals as the principal hijackers of American Airlines flight 11:

Adnan Bukhari:
Saudi Arabian Airlines pilot



Not to be forgotten is that King Abdullah himself:



.......... sits on the board of directors of Saudi Arabian Airlines.

The other co-pilot/co-hijacker would have been Mohammed Arrajakki(alias Atta)......



....who claimed to be a saudi prince........


"This story about Mohamed Atta being royalty and al-Shehhi being his bodyguard, was that something just that Huffman's told you? I mean do you think that was something that they even believed or…"

"It was my impression that it was generally believed," Greaves states. "Because it was my instructor who told me this at the time so I had the impression that that was generally believed, yes.

"That Mohamed Atta was royalty?"

"That he had some connection of the Royal House of Saudi, yes."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0203/S00057.htm

It is my personal opinion that Saudi Arabia was the country that 9/11 was originally designed to frame up and attack......but the perps did not reckon with the influence and power of George W Bush.....who unframed his Saudi buddies from the 9/11 plot.....and framed up Afghanistan instead.......

[medienanalyse]

9. uhm ... "crazy, hateful, wild-eyed man like the one who flew the plane"

So you know for sure who flew the plane?

And you are able to differ between several Attas ?

I only know that the photos of Florida-Atta were destroyed systematically by the FBI. That his landlord did not recognize the photo he was shown.

So there is neither evidence at all that any Atta can be spotted by photo evidence. Nor that one of the Attas was on a pilots seat on 9/11.

It is just not the way to clarify anything ...

[mirandapriestly]

10. So let me get this straight...

the Floridians partied it up with the David Cassidy look alike Atta.
the FBI talked to them on 911 and "persuaded" them to say that it was the Egyptian Atta because of some unknown problem with the Cassidy Atta.
Then the Cassidy Atta is saying that it was really him, but the Floridians are denying it.

You know, I just can't imagine the stripper shacking it up with the Egyptian Atta, but i could see her with the better looking one.

So...why would this Atta be saying that it was him and not the Egyptian? Is he not part of it?

[seatnineb]

12. I think you have asked the core question:

In the words of Mirandapriestly:
So...why would this Atta be saying that it was him and not the Egyptian? Is he not part of it?


DU poster Minstrel Boy who has read the Welcome To Terrorland book said the following:

Posted by Minstrel Boy on Mon Apr-19-04 02:11 AM

14. Under pressure from the FBI, and despite numerous witnesses who had known them together, Keller publicly retracted her story of having lived with Atta, saying he’d been another hijacker named Mohammed, no last name, who seems to have only existed to get Atta out of this story that didn’t fit the official version.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=104&topic_id=1433886&mesg_id=1433886

So we can look at this 2 ways:


1)

Amanda Keller:



....... was pressured by the FBI(post 9/11) into telling the public(Hopsicker included) that she was going out with this man before 9/11:



....when in fact she had been going out with this man before 9/11:



Or 2)


Amanda Keller:



..........was pressured by the FBI(post 9/11) into telling the public(Hopsicker Included) that she was going out with this man before 9/11



....when in fact she had been going out with this man before 9/11:



I personally believe in 1).

[mirandapriestly]

14. whereas Hopsicker thinks the" handsome" Atta is just an unexplained

loose end. I see. your version makes more sense, I can easily see her with the French Arab Atta and not at all with the taciturn, studious not as good looking Atta. But why would the handsome atta email Hopsicker, that would indicate that he was not involved. That is the question.

[seatnineb]

16. Thanks Miranda!

I read your statement below.......and all of a sudden it hit me!

In the words of Mirandapriestly:
Thu Apr-27-06 04:24 PM

But why would the handsome atta email Hopsicker, that would indicate that he was not involved. That is the question.

You may have answered this question for both of us!

By sending that email to Hopsicker and making himself temporarily visible to the public......Arajaki has made himself appear like he is innocent...........and simultaneously, by ridiculing Keller's story , subtly re-inforcing the official story.

Talk about killing 2 birds with the same stone!

At the very least it certainly could be an explanation.....

[mirandapriestly]

11. Why would Atta Senior

change his mind like that? Are there two Atta Seniors? The Atta Senior in the picture definitely has a resemblance to the Egyptian Atta. What was the FBI hiding by removing the videotape of Atta Senior?
All this information does is create confusion. It also makes us realized that the FBI is lying. Unfortunately, I doubt there is much information that Hopsicker could pull up that someone didn't put there for him to pull up, unfortunately.
The idea of framing the Saudis is interesting. Everyone remembers the photos shot of Bush and the Saudi Prince smooching and holding hands, I wonder if this was staged to make the American people look away from thinking the Saudis were guilty of 911(had the opposite effect on me).I'm getting the feeling that there might be more to this than the US gov't "did" 911 and they are trying to frame others for it, but what?
Anybody have any revelations?

[seatnineb]

13. That CNN interview does not make sense.

Atta SR


Atta Sr began the news conference by condemning the assaults on the US, citing a verse from the Holy Qur'an that may be translated as: "He who unjustly takes a soul has, in effect, taken so many more lives."
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2001/553/eg2.htm

(note that the above article has Atta's SR saying that Atta JR contacted him 3 days after 9/11.....NOT 1 day as described in other reports...this could be a journalistic mistake although I know the trolls will probably say that this is proof that Atta's father is a lying ****!)


So how do we contrast the above statement with CNN's "alledged interview" with this same Atta SR nearly 3 1/2 years later?:

El-Amir said the attacks in the United States and the July 7 attacks in London were the beginning of what would be a 50-year religious war, in which there would be many more fighters like his son.

He declared that terror cells around the world were a "nuclear bomb that has now been activated and is ticking."
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/19/atta.father.terror/index.html

As it stands.........

If Hopsicker can definetevly prove that Atta SR was in Florida...then we might have something.

[mirandapriestly]

15. He could have been induced into saying the second remarks

by some sort of intelligence technique. After all he is saying exactly what they would want him to say to support the official version. (kind of like Moussaoui). I wonder if there are pictures that go along with the "changed" interview, iow was that really Atta Senior?
What do you think it means that Atta Senior was in Florida?

[seatnineb]

17. Yeah I agree......

That CNN interview literally came out of the blue.

There is no transcript ,no video or audio tape that accompanies that story.

And it strongly contradicts Atta SR' s earlier views.

Interesting that CNN(and Hopsicker for that matter) did not site that earlier interview where Atta SR showed sympathy/empathy for those who had been killed on 9/11.

As for Atta SR being in Florida......

If it is proven to be true then it would tie his son (the Egyptian Atta JR) to Florida which until now has been a tenouse link at most.

Basically it would re-inforce the official story as we know it.

[Spoonerian]

18. These Atta Sr. reports parallel

the way the Bin Laden missives have evolved since immediately after 9/11 when Bin Laden condemned the attacks and the idea of collective punishment for the crimes of the US government. Then later on they started playing us tapes where Bin Laden seems to presume that of course he's behind it just like CNN has been telling us.

I chalk it up to some kind of mass mind control technique. Just as the US government must simultaneously portray itself as compassionate and crazed, the villians in these spectacles must also be presented as in-comprehensible characters. It would be dangerous to put on a show where the audience could accidently draw meaningful moral conclusions.

This reminds me of something I read by Noam Chomsky a while ago in "Rouge States":

A secret 1995 study of the Strategic Command, which is responsible for the strategic nuclear arsenal, outlines the basic thinking. Released through the Freedom of Information act, the study, Essentials of Post-Cold War Deterrence, "shows how the United States shifted its deterrent strategy from the defunct Soviet Union to so-called rogue states such as Iraq, Libya, Cuba and North Korea," AP reports. The study advocates that the U.S. exploit its nuclear arsenal to portray itself as "irrational and vindictive if its vital interests are attacked." That "should be a part of the national persona we project to all adversaries," particularly the "rogue states." "It hurts to portray ourselves as too fully rational and cool-headed," let alone committed to such silliness as international law and treaty obligations. "The fact that some elements" of the U.S. government "may appear to be potentially 'out of control' can be beneficial to creating and reinforcing fears and doubts within the minds of an adversary's decision makers." The report resurrects Nixon's "madman theory": our enemies should recognize that we are crazed and unpredictable, with extraordinary destructive force at our command, so they will bend to our will in fear. The concept was apparently devised in Israel in the 1950s by the governing Labor Party, whose leaders "preached in favor of acts of madness," Prime Minister Moshe Sharett records in his diary, warning that "we will go crazy" ("nishtagea") if crossed, a "secret weapon" aimed in part against the U.S., not considered sufficiently reliable at the time. In the hands of the world's sole superpower, which regards itself as an outlaw state and is subject to few constraints from elites within, that stance poses no
small problem for the world.

[mirandapriestly]

20. Love your post

I have noticed that too. The two different statements by bin laden, yes! and I was STILL believing that he had admitted to 911 until I looked into it and realized that he hadn't at all. The Bush admin- are they incompetent or evil geniuses? Then Mohammad Atta this information is hopeless to try to figure out, same with many aspects of 911. The info seems to Have been planted for no apparent reason, so maybe it wasn't planted, which version is fake? round and round we go...

[mirandapriestly]

19. Oh I see, duh,

But then, of course, the footage is missing isn't it? and it is only the pharmacists word...I bet the pharmacist atta senior was someone else..I wonder what kind of stuff the FBI says to people to get them to "agree" with them publicly?

[seatnineb]

21. Who is telling the story?

Perhaps we need to concentrate on those who tell the story as opposed to those who are in the story.

Storytellers like the 2 bartenders who served Atta on 9/7/01....Tony Amos and Patricia Idrissi.

This whole confusion with the actual identity of Atta has it's genesis in this very story:


9/12/01
Amos said the two men had each consumed several drinks Friday night and had given the bartender a hard time. Mohamed told Amos he was a pilot.
"The guy Mohamed was drunk, his voice was slurred and he had a thick accent," Amos said.
Bartender Patricia Idrissi said the men argued over the bill, and when she asked if there was a problem, "Mohamed said he worked for American Airlines and he could pay his bill."
<http://web.archive.org/web/20030224152521/http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20010912/10103.html


Let's think about this logically......Amos and Idrissi were interviewed by the FBI within 12-24 hrs after 9/11.

Yet almost immedietly after being interviewed by the FBI....both Amos and Idrissi are allowed to openly talk to the local Floridian press!...........how can that be?....would the FBI allow 2 important witnesses like these talk to the press so soon after 9/11 when they are
in the middle of such a huge criminal investigation like 9/11!

Many years later Dan Hopsicker tries to meet both Amos and Idrissi only to dicover that they have gone.

In the words of Daniel Hopsicker:
We wanted to ask Tony Amos. But when we stopped at Shuckum’s we discovered that neither he(Amos) nor bartender Idrissi were there any longer. No one knew where they’d gone. The current bartender indicated their leave-taking had been somehow 9/11 related.
Like numerous other eyewitnesses with inconvenient knowledge, Amos and Idrissi had purchased a ticket to the Island of Lost Witnesses. For their sake we hoped it was round trip.
http://www.madcowprod.com/05192005.html

It is amazing how the likes of Arajakki,Amos and Idrissi can give testimony.....and then just disappear!

[mirandapriestly]

22. OMG. Ya know, I don't think it was the Atta they say it is at all..

but, the "handsome" Atta, why would he come forward? I wonder where those people are? And I wonder if the pharmacist is still around.

[seatnineb]

25. Terry McDermot

Terry Mcdermot is well versed in the dynamics of the official story as we know it.

He is to the 9/11 official story what Palpatine is to Star Wars....



I think McDermot is full of shit.....

In the words of McDermot:
But there is another possibility. Over the last four years I have interviewed dozens of people who swore they saw Atta somewhere he wasn't. This includes an assortment of waiters, students, flight instructors, taxi drivers and, more dramatically, two women who each claim to have been married to Atta, this despite the fact that they were never in the same city at the same time he was.

How could it be that so many people remember that they knew Atta, that they saw him or his name, when all the facts argue otherwise? I don't think they are all lying. Maybe none of them are. I think Atta entered an American psyche desperate for a name and face and an explanation. He came complete with what has become one of the iconic images of 9/11 — his Florida DMV mug shot, an image so memorable, so powerful and perfect for the moment that it allowed people to see in it whatever they needed to see. I think people subsequently, subconsciously placed that face where it made sense to them. There is no reason that a congressman or even two career military men searching for solutions are any less susceptible to seeing what they need to see, where they want to see it...
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002421.html

I can bet you your bottom dollar that McDermot has not interviewed Amanda Keller!

[mirandapriestly]

23. Landlords describing the "handsome" Atta

Scroll down a few articles for this. So, is Keller "missing" too? Why do we think she is a stripper? Sounds like she is a restaurant manager...According to this Keller was "enamored" of Mohamed, not "she felt sorry for him" like she said to Hopsicker.

http://www.medienanalyse-international.de/faksimiles.html

Thursday began like a normal day for North Port residents Tony and Vonnie LaConca, but they would later learn a man who rented their Agress Avenue home is someone whom authorities think may be connected with Tuesday's attacks.

An FDLE agent working in conjunction with the FBI arrived at the LaConca home around 10:30 a.m. Thursday and questioned the couple for two hours concerning a man they knew only as "Mohamed."

The couple told the agent the man was about 25, 5 feet 10 inches, 160 pounds, had "dark, perfect" skin, and was clean cut and "very polite."

"He was a very handsome guy," Vonnie LaConca said in an interview. "He had beautiful, unblemished skin."

Mohamed was associated with a local woman believed to be Amanda Keller, a local restaurant manager, LaConca said. The FBI is looking for Keller for additional questioning, but she might be missing.

LaConca told the agent that Keller had "dishwater blonde hair, was about 21 years old, big boned with freckles" and seemed to be enamored of Mohamed.

In an effort to locate Keller, the agent accompanied Tony LaConca to the North Port Police Department to pick up a Feb. 25 police report in which Keller had called police about harassing cell phone calls.

According to the police report, after Keller called police about the calls, a computer check was conducted and showed an outstanding warrant from Marion County on a worthless check charge.

"Mohamed bailed her out of South County Jail," Vonnie LaConca said. "We told agents this because we thought they (FBI) might be able to get his last name from the reports."

Keller, who allegedly met Mohamed while working at Papa John's Pizza in Venice, told the couple she would translate because Mohamed spoke limited English. She said he was French/Canadian. She told the LaConcas that he was not a U.S. citizen.
"

[seatnineb]

24. Thanks for your input Miranda.

The Laconca's need to be interviewed again......

And preferably NOT by Dan Hopsicker.

As for the bartender Amos......even before disappearing ....he changed his story.

9/12/01
Amos said the two men had each consumed several drinks Friday night and had given the bartender a hard time. Mohamed told Amos he was a pilot.
"The guy MOHAMED WAS DRUNK , his voice was slurred and he had a thick accent," AMOS SAID.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030224152521/http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20010912/10103.html


9/27/01
The owner, TONY AMOS, says Atta sat quietly by himself AND DRANK CRANBERRY JUICE and played a video game, while Al-Shehhi and the other customer tossed back mixed drinks and argued.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010927120728/http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-092701atta.story


Now either Amos is a poor liar.

Or journalists have lied under duress.

Something here points to a desperation because even within the 1st 12-24 hrs AFTER 9/11......the hijacker profiles were being amended.

Something that really should not have happened considering that this was all planned for a considerable amount of time BEFORE 9/11.

[mirandapriestly]

26. so he switched to a devout religious profile.

Hopsicker gathers a lot of information, but doesn't put it together very well, IMHO. Plus, he takes what people say at face value. is that what you mean? I am glad you posted this, because I have read Hopsicker's accounts before, but I can't process any of the information. I think you are on the right track and I now have a pretty good idea of what is going on. Now if only we had a real media somewhere. :eyes:

The way these witnesses(or journalists) changed their stories (probably under duress) shows how ridiculous the argument that "people can't keep a conspiracy this big a secret" is.