Flight 93 survived the Pennsylvania Crash

[Woody Box]

One day after the attacks, Air Controllers of Washington ARTC Center related to Matthew L. Wald from the New York Times how they spotted an unidentified aircraft that "crossed their radar screen", approaching Washington from the West. They believed it was UA 93.

In contrast, controllers at the Washington Air Route Traffic Control Center had much more warning that something was wrong. Those controllers, who handled American Airlines Flight 77, which dived into the Pentagon, knew about the hijacking of the first plane to crash, even before it hit the World Trade Center, those involved said. That was more than an hour before they watched another hijacked plane, United Flight 93, cross their radar screen on its way to the Pentagon.


http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/national/13AVIA.html


A quick look at an ARTCC map reveals that UA 93 never was in or near the airspace of Washington Center (ZDC) - according to the official story. Even when it crashed in Southern Pennsylvania, it was 50 miles out of this area.

So which airplane crossed the radar screen of the Washington controllers?

[Andre II]

1. I'd like to know that, too. n/t

[RayUbinger]

2. Pennsylvania crash, what Pennsylvania crash?

Crashes have DEBRIS. The scene at Shanksville didn't:
http://thewebfairy.com/911/93

Just last week on Larry King, the UA93 pilot's widow, Sandy Dahl, said, "I couldn't believe what I was seeing on television, being a flight attendant, I couldn't believe there was nothing LEFT, it was just a hole. I was expecting to see airplane parts."

[ediedidcare]

3. corection: 8 mile long debris field

with body parts pulled from Indian Lake, PA
snip>
" At the horseshoe-shaped Indian Lake, about a mile east of the official crash site, several eyewitnesses recalled hearing “a screaming thing” that “screeched” as it passed over the golf course and lakeside community immediately before a huge explosion shook the ground.

Chris Smith, the groundskeeper at the golf course, said something with a “very loud screeching sound” passed over in the immediate vicinity of the golf course before he heard a huge explosion.

“It was like nothing I’ve ever heard before,” Smith said.

The explosion that followed sounded like a “sonic boom,” he said. Smith and others said they felt the shock wave from the explosion."

[Dancing_Dave]

6. Does this sound like a passenger plane to you?

And were any parts recovered, which could be identifed as parts of Flight 93 by their serial numbers?

No one doubts that something happened in the Pennsylvania skys that spread debris over a wide area. The current question is whether Flight 93 was brought down there.

And the official story of Flight 93 that's now a Hollywood fantasy movie isn't consistant with the wreckage being scattered over a wide area, either. Anyway you look at it, the official story does not add up.

[ediedidcare]

7. I believe 93 did go down ( shot down) in PA

but the passenger list swelled when passengers from 11, 175 and 77 were loaded on board
(see Operation Pearl -Hopkins?)

there is a reason each plane was only 1/4 sold.

Imagine the horror...

[sabbat hunter]

10. passengers

well you start with a wrong notion. the planes were each more than 1/4 full. they were 35-40% full. plus the fact you have to add available seats for the crew of each plane.

so your theory doesnt hold water.

[Woody Box]

12. Hey, sabbat hunter

It was interesting to note your comment to a secondary post which has nothing to do with the original one.

So what's your take on the "phantom flight 93" then? I'm looking forward to a fruitful discussion.

[sabbat hunter]

13. link

the NYT link you have requires registration. got any other links to the article that doesnt require registration?

but i think it is important to note that it says "they believed that it was flight 93" with all that was going on and the transponders off, it was nearly impossible to tell which plane was which.

IMO flight 93 was probably shot down over PA.

two planes hit the WTC and a plane hit the pentagon.

i have seen no hard proof otherwise. almost everything that is mentioned in a CT is conjunctor and assumptions.

[Woody Box]

19. You're not registered to the NYTimes???

That's disappointing, man. That's really poor.

So you have no access to and are not aware of many, many important stories undermining the official story. How can a journalistic amateur like you believe his attempts to save the official story bear any credibility? :eyes:

What are you doing here on DU? Apart from spreading the usual anti-"CT" blah blah?

[petgoat]

14. "they were 35-40% full"

How do you know all the passengers on the list showed up?

How do you know they were all real people? The Wing TV people have investigated
the social security records and found that death benefits were never paid for a
number of the 9/11 passengers. Also, putting someone's name on the passenger
list would be a good way to cover their murder elsewhere. I'm thinking about the
Raytheon guys here.

[sabbat hunter]

16. death benefits

you probably can find people who die every month for whom death benefits were never paid.

the people that died on 911 all had relatives, tell them that their relatives are not dead.


do you have any proof of your accusations? that is my major problem with CT is that it is all based on assumptions and allegations without proof.

the 911 commission is hiding something, but passenger deaths is not one of them. too easy to verify.

dont forget not only did the passengers die, but the crew did too. more families involved.

i want to know how this was not stopped. why the bush administration was so incompetent. how come they ignored all the warnings. why hasn't the bush administration gone after OBL. to me the ties between the bin laden family and bush family are too many to ignore. is bush deliberately allowing OBL to be free. if so he should be impeached. congress/independent prosecutor needs to investigate this.

[petgoat]

17. "the people that died on 911 all had relatives"

Which fact is irrelevant to the proposition that the passenger lists
were padded with non-existent people.

do you have any proof of your accusations

They're not my accusations. I'm simply reporting that the WingTV people did a study.

This appears to be an extract from it:

http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5798&start=0

It says 92 were claimed on board flight 11, only 88 names were released, and 56 of them
returned no record in the "Death Records, Public Records, SSA Master Death File Database".

Many of the others returned multiple records because names like "Sarah Clark" get a lot of
hits.

Scroll down and you can see stats for flight 93 and flight 77 too.

It would be a good thing if somebody actually did go around and interview the relatives of
the supposed victims. But "bottom line" journalism won't support such expensive efforts.

i want to know how this was not stopped.

Because the war games disrupted the air defense. So who told al Qaeda about the war games?

why the bush administration was so incompetent.

What makes you think they were? Looks like it was Mission Accomplished. They got their New Pearl Harbor.

how come they ignored all the warnings.

Because they needed a New Pearl Harbor to transform society.

why hasn't the bush administration gone after OBL.

Because he's more useful as a bogeyman. Besides, he's a CIA asset.

[Ferry Fey]

18. SSDI databases can't always be trusted

SSDI queries need to be backed up with searches of multiple databases. In the letsroll911.org postings Brian V. does not give the link for where he searched. The databases out there such as the ancestry.com one are commercial databases, and as such are not necessarily complete or up to date. I believe we can't actually access the government database itself, but get its information mediated through the commercial search pages.

Ideally a search of SSDI listings would give not only tries of multiple databases, but would list all the information used to query. That way if there was an error in the search parameters (think of a woman who was listed on a manifest using her husband's surname, but who still has her social security number under her birth name), someone could do a further check.

[RayUbinger]

9. OIC

Eight miles of debris, but ZERO percent of it in the black plane-shaped hole in the ground! Har!!

[Dancing_Dave]

4. Airplane parts would have been nice.

It's amazing how many details were botched by the perpatrators of this propaganda operation!

But how much competence can you expect from the Bush-Cheney Adminstration, anyway? In the end, 9/11 was bound to go down like Enron.

[mirandapriestly]

5. I read a theory on another forum

that speculated that a C-130 dropped "debris" along that debris field, (none of it is larger than a loaf of bread). A C-130 was seen in the area and they are equipped to make drops at specific targets/locations. Something about the theory made sense to me, whereas many of them don't.

[ediedidcare]

8. a white A-10 was also seen flying low...

shooter plane?

[petgoat]

15. Interestingly, the C-130H was the same one that nearly

collided with flight 77 in DC. Its crew claimed they saw 77 hit the
Pentagon. This C-130H was, according to the 9CR, 17 miles away from
Shanksville when 93 crashed. Presumably that's based on the 10:03 crash
time. Assuming 360 mph, the 10:06 crash time would put the C-130H right
there.

[Woody Box]

11. No problem

I don't believe in the vaporizing airliner either.

The headline was chosen for emphasizing a big contradiction of the official story - say "Assumed the hypothesis is true that UA 93 crashed over Shanksville -

what f*** plane was on its way to Washington - more than 50 miles east of Shanksville?