MSNBC Democratic Presidential Debate on Now....

[slinkerwink]

Tune into MSNBC, discuss, debate, and watch!

[name not needed]

1. ill catch it at 8:30

gotta watch the simpsons

[liberalnurse]

125. Where is the General?

[hellhathnofury]

2. Eagles-Packers is going OT.

[valphoosier]

3. Go Eagles!

As a Bears fan, another close Packers win would be heartbreaking...

[Printer70]

167. Bad pass by Farvre

Why Brett, why?

[Terwilliger]

4. sad, but the candidates have to fight the football coverage

wonder if they'll talk about the Susskind book?

[slinkerwink]

5. I don't care about football!

;-)

[hellhathnofury]

6. This is going to be bad. Lots of bad Spanish to come.

[slinkerwink]

7. it's covering minority issues.

:shrug:

[hellhathnofury]

9. Yeah I know. I hope Joe doesn't try out his Espagnol.

[Padraig18]

8. Ouch!

"We would like to point out that Gen. Wesley clark did not accept our invitation to attend this debate".

That's GOTTA sting!

[hellhathnofury]

10. Truth hurts.

[Padraig18]

13. It's all Dean's fault!

Didn't you get the memo? :P

[ClarkGraham2004]

11. Yeah, all the 100 people that are watching it!!!

GO EAGLES


My cable company doesnt even carry MSNBC

[Padraig18]

15. you're right

no one's gonna notice except those '100'... :eyes:

[Renew Deal]

17. I don't think anyone is going to see it either.

But I am watching. I got the game in PiP.

[ClarkGraham2004]

18. Glad you agree

The more Clark stays away from these stupid debates, the higher he goes in the polls!!

[Padraig18]

20. we'll see.

:)

[ClintonTyree]

153. And if it was the other way around..................

you'd be the first one bitching and moaning about Dean. Please.......

[liberalnurse]

168. Is that the "Arnold Play "?

Arnold did the exact same thing, and it did him a lot of good.

[hellhathnofury]

16. Your guy can't duck the process. The other media will cover.

Arnold skipped debates too.

[ClarkGraham2004]

19. And Arnold won <nm>

[hellhathnofury]

21. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Do you really want to use Arnold's tactics?

[ClarkGraham2004]

30. Arnold = Governor of California

Winning is important.

NO MORE BUSH

[hellhathnofury]

36. So ethics aren't won't be a trump card.

I like public access, one of my big gripes with this admin.

[ClarkGraham2004]

40. please....

find something else to bitch about

[hellhathnofury]

41. I think it's a reasonable complaint. Clark should participate.

[ClarkGraham2004]

My question.....

if Clark's numbers were stagnant, would you still bitch about this?


I think it's all sour grapes.

[hellhathnofury]

72. Yes I would still bitch. It's about participation.

[ClarkGraham2004]

87. So you were mad about Sharpton not being at the last Iowa debate?

Can you link me to some of your posts?

[hellhathnofury]

108. I never posted on it. I'm on other threads about Clark, won't look.

Clark is a major candidate with the money to fly all over the place.

[tedoll78]

27. Mine neither.

So I'm stuck rooting for the Packers on FOX. ;)

[tedoll78]

74. See? Now I'm pissed!

Why did Green Bay have to punt in the 4th quarter when they had that 4th-and-1? Why??? That earns my Stupid Coaching Decision of the Week Award. Sheesh..

[slinkerwink]

12. the caucus comment is brought up....

:rolls eyes:

[slinkerwink]

14. so far, they're covering the horse race aspects, not the issues

typical media.

[Terwilliger]

22. damn...and there goes the pattern

it will be about horserace issues til the nominee is selected...then the media will be about how the Dems are losing to Bush for the summer

[slinkerwink]

23. is Kucinich at the debate?

I didn't see him?

[Padraig18]

24. yes

[slinkerwink]

26. there he is!

[hellhathnofury]

25. Whenever Joe is up, it's football time.

[slinkerwink]

28. football? I'm watching this entire thing though!

;-)

[Terwilliger]

31. please describe

are they still on the media circus?

[hellhathnofury]

32. If the Eagles win, Rush hurts. Hence watching. Plus football is good.

[Terwilliger]

42. Eagles DO win 20-17

:bounce:

[slinkerwink]

33. Geppy's on a roll.

[slinkerwink]

34. man, the moderator attacked Sharpton and Braun for their

low fundraising dollars.

[Terwilliger]

who is the moderator?

:shrug:

[hellhathnofury]

52. Lester Holt and I don't know who teh Hispanic lady is.

[mbali]

29. Go Dennis! Go Dennis! Go Dennis!

Great WMD line!

[slinkerwink]

37. I have to admit that line was funny!

;-)

[slinkerwink]

43. man, they're bringing up old attacks on Dean

:nopity:

[slinkerwink]

47. ugh, sharpton.

[Padraig18]

35. kick

[ClarkGraham2004]

38. Eagles win LMAO@Limbaugh!!!!!

[hellhathnofury]

39. Victory is ours. Take that Rush.

[Monte Carlo]

44. The liberal media made Farve toss that meatball...

... right towards two Eagles.

[Cocoa]

208. lol

:-)

[hellhathnofury]

45. Ahh crap. He just slipped and compared NASCAR dads to conflagpickups.

[Renew Deal]

48. I am offended

:evilgrin:

[hellhathnofury]

50. The others didn't pick up on it. It wasn't direct. More of a slip.

[slinkerwink]

53. Braun's totally got Dean's back on this one!

good for her!

[DancingBear]

73. Wes Clark

says "Thanks, Howard - see you in the south!."

[mbali]

46. Oh, no he di-ent

Dean just said the biggest challenge facing the minority community is to "help white audiences understand the plight of minority populations when it comes to race."

[mbali]

49. Sharpton set him straight

It's about more than just talking to whites.

[mbali]

59. And Edwards came through like a champ

[ant]

77. hell yeah, he did!

He's right. Ever read this article on voter suppression?
http://www.liberalslant.com/pt102103.htm

It's not so much an "It can't happen here," mindset as "It can't happen to me." For the past two decades, the Republican Party has engaged in the systematic and deliberate suppression of the minority vote. White Americans have clucked their tongues and shaken their heads and then thought about other things, secure in the illusion that because the most blatant examples involved nonwhites, it posed no real danger to the Democratic process as a whole.

Power is still white, and racism today is no longer the overt kind my parents experienced. Most white people - especially democrats - wouldn't consider themselves racists, but they are. That's not to fault them, either, we all carry around biases and prejudices that we're not aware of, that's life, but Dean's point about getting white people to realize this and talk about it without getting defensive is dead on. He's right about the causes of institutional racism and how whites need to understand it before it can be fixed.

His answer to the confederate flag question was awesome, too.

I haven't been big into the primaries, and truth be told I'll be happy with either a Dean or Clark nomination, but I have been really falling for Dean these past two debates. I am hispanic and his comments on race are a huge part of why he stands out for me.

[mbali]

113. I understand your point

but the problem I have with Dean is that his ONLY solution to the race problem in Amnerica seems to require black people to convince white people of something, as if this hasn't been tried for centuries. Everytime he talks about race, he talks about it in the context of how he's going to reach out to white people or how he's going to help white people better understand black people's needs, or how he's going to help white people see that they should be voting Democratic. As a black person, I find that annoying and insulting, for several reasons.

First, it assumes that black people need a white interpreter to speak for us, as if we don't know how to communicate with whites. Furthermore, he presents himself as the foremost white person to act as our interpreter, implying that other white people just haven't done as good a job as he will do in being our interpreter.

But even more than that, he seems to have no clue as to what to do beyond talking. What programs, what plans, what policies has he presented? Addressing civil rights is far more than promising to talk to white people. What's he going to do? Until he answers this question, I feel his promise to talk to white people on my behalf well-meaning but worthless.

[stickdog]

173. He's going to explain to a lot of "angry white males" why their heads

are up their asses.

That's the best he can do.

He needs your help to do the rest.

What would you advise him to say and do additionally?

[ant]

186. it's a tough issue

Maybe I'm just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I agree with his general comments on race, and he's the first person I've ever heard talk about race this way. I also acknowledge that there's only so much you can cram into a 30 second response time, or however long they have in these debates. You're right, though, he hasn't talked about any concrete policies, but has anyone else? That's an honest question - I don't know what specific policies anyone else has proposed.

And I don't see his comments as saying minorities need an interpretor. I don't hear him saying "I am the only one that can speak to this issue," which is why I disagree with Sharpton's characterization of Dean as "lecturing" people. I hear Dean saying we ALL need to talk about this, and white people - even the lefty ones who fancy themselves oh-so-enlightened and progressive - need to think long and hard about how they perpetuate racism without even being aware of it. That being said, I do think the reaction of some white people to those sorts of questions can vary with the race of the person posing the challenge. Minorities are often brushed aside as just not getting over it or seeing racism everywhere, playing the race card, etc., so I think having a white person, especially one in a position of power, draw attention to these issues is important.

[mbali]

193. Good points

I don't have any problem with the idea of white leaders talking about race. I commend those who do it and wish that more would.

But Dean has repeatedly claimed that he is "the only white politician talking about race to white audiences. I take that to mean that he believes he is the only white politician who is engaging in the kind of dialogue that he thinks we need, which is patronizing and misleading, not to mention a slap in the face to the many decent white politicians who are speaking out on this issue and have been long before Howard Dean decided to do so. That's why Sharpton's smackdown was so necessary - Dean has been lecturing the others about race and, in doing so, has opened himself up to questions about his own record.

[Padraig18]

51. CMB: "Howard is right; we have to have an honest conversation...

... about race."

Thank you, Carol! :)

[hellhathnofury]

54. Booyah.

[slinkerwink]

55. I love her! I hope she's in the Dean administration!

[hellhathnofury]

56. Directed cand-cand question times. Joe first to all.

[slinkerwink]

62. omfg, lieberman just fucking shut up.

[imhotep]

57. Can you post details

such as questions and answers or summary.
Thanks.

[Renew Deal]

58. Here comes Lieberman.

DUCK

[hellhathnofury]

60. Speech making. Boring.

[hellhathnofury]

61. Mods told him to ask a question finally.

[hellhathnofury]

63. Others laughing at him. Edwards makes fun of him.

[slinkerwink]

ha, noticed that!

[morgan2]

66. hahah

he made quite a fool out of himself.. Set it up like he was going to ask something meaningful and just came out with some bs question.

[Renew Deal]

64. Lieberman wasted his question.

[hellhathnofury]

65. and alot of time. Damn him.

[slinkerwink]

75. pigs will fly in hell if Holy Joe's ever elected President

[slinkerwink]

68. he totally did!

what a pathetic excuse for a presidential candidate!

[Padraig18]

69. memo to Joe:

Everyone laughing WITH you = good; everyone laughing AT you = bad.

[NoPasaran]

67. Candidates questions

Lieberman: windbag
CMB: To the point ABB!

[Renew Deal]

70. This debate is 2 hours.

[1floridademocrat]

71. OT: THe Iowa bus-Trippi connection.. DIDN'T HAPPEN

TNR letters, current issue, debunks thier OWN article about Trippi placing signs on Cranston busses to steal thier JJ tickets.

It didn't happen... if only for the fact that Trippi WASN'T IN IOWA YET. He didn't come to Iowa until DEC, the dinner happened in OCT.

Shooting down another BS Anti-Dean attack, one at a time!

[slinkerwink]

76. thanks for bringing that up!

but provide a link anyway :-)

[1floridademocrat]

83. Can't

Its subscription only on-line, I had to go buy a damn Issue of TNR to get the info.

I can't stand TNR, but I had heard through the grapevine over on Dkos that it was debunked in the Letters section of the current TNR. (Which this week is slamfest on Dean anyways, not a huge surprise)

But sine TNR makes letters section subscription only, no linky, if someone with a TNR subscription wants to verify this go for it.

[slinkerwink]

90. if you have the issue of TNR, can you please type up the letter

and e-mail it to me? I'd like to send it off on e-mail lists to those about Trippi being in Iowa during his last campaign. I'd really appreciate it! :hi:

[1floridademocrat]

99. Will do my best, its long..

But will try 8)

Of course Anti-Trippi peopel are still going to spin this as "trippi's a lair!"

Personally I see it as Trippi taking a piss out of a reporter he doesn't like. Hell I'd do the same to someone from TNR in a damn heartbest. I'd have made this a new topic but not enough posts yet! 8)

[hellhathnofury]

78. Mod: Is the econ recovering?

Kerry: Only in boardrooms.

[Renew Deal]

79. That's the hottest moderator ever

:loveya:

[hellhathnofury]

80. This is a debate. Not a bordello.

[Padraig18]

81. hey, Lester's hot!

I'd do him. :P

[Renew Deal]

85. lol

So, that doesn't make her unattractive.

[hellhathnofury]

88. Your eyes should be on Kerry, not the moderator.

[Renew Deal]

91. Sorry, but she is better looking.

Cmon, it's OK to have fun.

[hellhathnofury]

96. Still. You can oogle after the debate. Let's be pro's, not freepers.

[Padraig18]

92. ummm...

My cutoff is 50. :P

[slinkerwink]

84. heh, keep that to yourself

;-)

[Hoppin_Mad]

94. She is very attractive -eom-

[ClarkGraham2004]

95. Who is it?

[texas is the reason]

107. agreed-yum!

love the accent, too:9

[nomaco-10]

202. Your remark stands to ....

cheapen the debate and detract from the larger questions that the candidates are trying to answer. Shame on you.
Maybe your candidate will join in the debates one of these days instead of holding up unnscathed up until now.

[hellhathnofury]

82. Dennis: Econ, trade.

She called him senator.

[goodhue]

twice

Called DK senator twice. DK gave good answer, btw, about his plan for full employment economy.

[hellhathnofury]

86. Mod: Gep: What is an acceptable number of unemployment?

Gep: 0%, it's possible.

[Monte Carlo]

97. Ehh... I don't know how Gep did there...

... I've studied a bit of economics, and I've read of good reasons why 0% unemployment may be possible, but undesireable. Inflation, labor pools... Slavery is a full employment system, so I don't see the necessary connection.

[hellhathnofury]

98. He'd never say: 5% is okay. It's all politics, not reality.

[hellhathnofury]

103. Kerry: Change America, it's always worst in minority area's.

[Jack_Dawson]

89. Unwatchable

How many times am I going to have to hear Dick say "When I led the fight to..."

:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring::boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:

GREAT GAME today! Huge Eagles victory. I am SO GLAD Clark isn't attending the circular firing squad. He's so above this. Oh and spare me the "he's chicken" crap. He's making the "huge mistake" of not competing in Iowa, remember? Hee hee hee.


GO WES
GO EAGLES
GO PATS

[unfrigginreal]

123. LOL

Yeah, Clark runs great whenever his only proximate competition is Joe Lieberman. Let's see how he does when the others come into town next week.:-)

[hellhathnofury]

93. Mod: What would you do to reduce minority unemp.?

Sharpton: Infrastructure.

[slinkerwink]

102. Kerry fucked up by walking into the darkness away from his podium

but then that kinda fits his campaign, doesn't it?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

207. It befits his intrepid character

but smear him to your heart's delight- no matter- he'll still keep fighting for unappreciative Democrats like you as he has been for 35 years.

[Padraig18]

100. Good one, Sen. kerry!

just took a HUGE swipe at Bush over minority unemplyment!

[Padraig18]

104. Just noticed something:

This is not a "Howard bashing" tonight... hmmm.... i like it!:)

[Renew Deal]

106. There is 1 1/2 hours to go.

[Padraig18]

110. hush!

Let me enjoy thge moment! :P

[funky_bug]

128. spoke too soon

Sharpton hits Howard - and the childish bashing begins.

[askew]

101. Finally, we are starting to get real questions.

Lieberman and Sharpton have just been windbags. So far, I really liked Dean and CMB's answer on the race question. DK's answer on the space program question. And suprisingly enough, all of Gephardt's answers.

[hellhathnofury]

105. Go Carol! Don't let them ignore you.

[hellhathnofury]

109. Dean attacking tax cut fallout.

[hellhathnofury]

112. Dean: First priority is to balance the budget. Then increase corp. taxes.

Back to Bill's taxes.

[Renew Deal]

111. Lieberman is loading his guns on Dean

[Renew Deal]

114. Get ready for a Dean flip flop or equivocation

[Renew Deal]

119. It wasn't so bad.

[slinkerwink]

115. DK is JUST like Ross Perot with his charts......

[jburton]

117. somebody please start a 2nd thread

[slinkerwink]

130. ugh, Sharpton's race-baiting Dean

[mbali]

156. Why is it that

when Dean lectures everyone else about race, he's being a cutting edge, tough talker who is generating dialogue on race, but when others challenge him on race, they are race-baiting?

[hellhathnofury]

116. Kucinich attacking Dean on not cutting defense spending. Iraq spiel.

Stop wealthy tax cuts.

Dean: I will not cut Pentagon budget. I will not build mini-nukes, no Star Wars. I will spend more on spec ops, intelligence, pay soldiers more.

[Padraig18]

120. Yada, yada, yada, Dennis...

:eyes:

[Paulie]

155. Yadda Yadda Yadda Dean..

Still won't cut the Pentagon budget, and then fails to explain where he's going to get the hundreds of billions to balance the budget, especially if we remain in Iraq.

Since when did building ports become a Pentagon job? The whole point of the Pentagon is BUYING weapons. It's the whole reason for its existance.

[tedoll78]

121. Dean's doing really well tonight!

I am most pleased:)

[ludwigb]

118. Sweet!

I love Kucinich and his pie-chart. It really is fucking ridiculous that the Pentagon gets nearly 50% of discresionary spending.

[goodhue]

135. yes great chart

Its truly amazing that half of spending goes to Rumsfeld, and this would be news to many folks I think. But the other candidates including Dean don't want to talk about it. Crazy priorities.

[hellhathnofury]

122. Gep attacking Dean on "hurting soc sec, payroll tax cut"

Not to harsh.

Dean: Will put other money into Soc Sec Trust fund to balance out. Payroll tax regressive, tax credit.

[Renew Deal]

124. This is getting ugly between Al and Dean.

[Renew Deal]

127. Al is teeing off on Dean. That was a spoiler job.

[mbali]

131. Dean has brought this on himself by posturing and lecturing on race

[Sean Reynolds]

137. You're right.

He shouldn't have talked about race. I hope when president he ignores the problem too!

[mbali]

179. Too bad you and Dean don't seem to understand the difference

between talking about race and lecturing others about it as if one is the world's foremost expert on the topic.

Many, many politicians talk about race in very constructive ways. But they do not lecture and pontificate about it. Dean should learn a little something from them.

[stickdog]

198. Dean is well meaning. He doesn't claim to be God's gift to race relations,

but he does talk about it to predominantly white audiences -- unlike the other major candidates, whose comparative silence you and Sharpton seem to comparatively appreciate.

[goodhue]

143. indeed

[Andromeda]

200. Bad, bad Dean...

how dare he talk about race.

[the populist]

132. Fuck Al Sharpton

He can go fuck himself. He's become a joke and an embarrassment.

He blames Dean for not having blacks in his cabinet. Yeah we should have racial standards for cabinet-selecting. That;'s Jim Crow reversed.

[Renew Deal]

141. That was a big downer

I mean Sharpton went out of his way to chase after Dean.

[tishaLA]

142. Is having one or two African Americans

on your cabinet "Jim Crow in reverse"? How is that?

[the populist]

150. If the people you want in your cabinet happen to be white...

it doesn't necessarily make you a racist. I just don't understand why he should be forced to hire minorities if he thinks men who happen to be of a white race can do a better job for him. It's not a question of racism.

[tishaLA]

176. Nobody said it was racist.

Not even Rev. Sharpton. But calling affirmative hiring practices "Jim Crow in reverse"?

[mbali]

180. Or, as angry white men call it "Reverse Discrimination"

While Dean is going around explaining affirmative action to white people, he should be sure to look you up.

[hellhathnofury]

126. Sharpton: No minorities on Dean's admin team in vermont

Dean: Disagree, not believe everything you believe.
Sharpton: In your cabinet?
Dean: No. % in race doesn't matter, Kstreet MLK line.
Sharpton: Get diversity, you need to talk about your lack of action in Vermont on getting race in admin.

[Padraig18]

133. Like .6% of the population of VT are minorities, i think.

:shrug:

[funky_bug]

136. Well...

dammit man, SAY THAT! Sharpton got his hooks in. Howard should have been armed with your statistic, Padraig.

[welshTerrier2]

147. not good enough

sharpton correctly pointed out that if dean had been really committed to dealing with race, he should have done what many other governors have done ... import talent from out of state ...

spin this any way you want, dean looked like a mouse caught in the headlights ...

[Maddy McCall]

175. He wouldn't have to import minority talent...I am sure there are PLENTY of

talented minorities in Vermont. At least ONE person for ONE cabinet position?

His race record REEKS.

[stickdog]

184. Have you ever been to Vermont?

And whence should he import them?

Please think hard before you answer.

[Maddy McCall]

192. I live in a town with majority WHITE pop. and our whole city govt is black

Mayor, all city council members, police chief, and county sheriff are BLACK. We aren't afraid of electing minorities to govern our white-majority town and county; why is Dean afraid to apoint them???

Edited to add "appoint them".

[welshTerrier2]

201. no disagreement here

i think sharpton's point was "don't tell me because vermont has such a small minority population that the talent pool was too small" ...

that argument is dead in the water (even though it's nonsense to begin with) when you allow the entire country to be available for hire ...

[AP]

152. First hand experience:

(not mine, someone close). Recruited for a job in VT. Asian guy at place of employment describes how he gets harassed on streets of Burlington. Not easy to be a minority in VT. Eventually, job not taken for other reasons.

Dean hires a few minorities on his staff, maybe people recruited for jobs in VT don't get disuaded by one of the .6% there.

[mbali]

145. That's not the point

the point is that Dean - even if it's not his fault - doesn't have the experience or the cred to lecture everyone else about race. And Sharpton nailed him on it.

Good for Sharpton.

[Maddy McCall]

161. Oh, so monorities don't matter when the question of how many he governed

comes up, ("Trent Lott would be MLK"), but upon further questioning, he shows he NEVER EVEN APPOINTED ONE TO A SENIOR LEVEL POSITION IN HIS ADMINISTRATION.

That is indefensible.

[AP]

140. Dean's priority: hire white men.

That's what his little diversity stump story is about. There were too many women in his administration because of latent hiring biases by the woman who did the hiring. Dean put his foot down. Hire men!

[tishaLA]

129. Wow. Mr. Sharpton is very....

I'm not sure the word...but it seems like he has a real point about having African American and "brown" people in his administration

[slinkerwink]

139. about .6% of minorities are in VT, and most of them are Indians

[Maddy McCall]

151. SHARPTON ASKED HIM "BLACK OR BROWN PEOPLE"

Would that include Indians?

Looks like the guy who prided himself on his discussion of race is proving to be a class-A hypocrit.

And his "Trent Lott" line is really getting OOOOLD.

[maddezmom]

154. did he have any Native Americans in his administration? n/t

[Maddy McCall]

188. Make that TWO PERCENT or close to TWENTY-THOUSAND people

Again, you shoot out statistics that are incorrect and you don't readress the topic or admit that you were wrong.

Are you saying that out of TWENTY-THOUSAND minorities, Dean could not have found ONE person qualified for a cabinet position? Your defense of this is disgusting.

[stickdog]

195. This is why we need affirmative action, right.

I don't know the exact numbers, but it seems like you're saying that it's disgraceful not to overrepresent minorities in your administration.

I mean, did Dean really have over 50 cabinet members?

[Maddy McCall]

197. If he is going to talk the talk on MINORITIES, he needs to walk the walk

His record doesn't show that he has "reached out to races" like he likes to claim on the campaign trail.

Just another white politician using minorities to get what he wants.

[the populist]

144. Yeah let's reinstall the patronage system

Let's sprinkle a few unqualified minorities in our cabinet to look good, even though they are probably unqualified since .6% of your state is black.

[goodhue]

160. "even though they are probably unqualified"

pretty presumptious

[the populist]

170. Ok now let's accuse each other of racism

how progressive...

you can't just sprinkle African Americans here and there just to look good. cabinet positions should be issued on qualifications not on race.

[tishaLA]

164. I've never met an unqualified "minority" get a position

but I have seen lots of old-boy network folks them. It's the status quo.

[White Mountain]

148. As a Dean fan...

... Sharpton ade him look very bad on race.

Dean would have been better served to answer Sharpton directly when first asked that he did not have blacks or browns as cabinet members. Having Sharpton drag that out of him (as will be the spin of the Pubs) ain't good.

[funky_bug]

172. agreed

Dean stumbled over that. Which is why he should have had Padraig whispering answers to him on the side... if his supporters can quickly come up with the statistics, then the Dean camp is doing Dean a big disservice by not working as hard as the DUers are.

[isbister]

149. angry

That didn't play well on TV for Dr. Dean. He'll try to say something when he gets another chance but... too late.

[Simeon Salus]

157. And Dean's pat line went flat.

His tired re-use of the Carville line about Mississippi and Trent Lott went over like a pregnant polevaulter.

[White Mountain]

159. taht was very lame

... I do admit.

[Maddy McCall]

169. Yes, it did. It was completely hollow.

[goodhue]

171. It was a dumb line the first time he used it

and it only gets wrose upon repition. But evn worse given the tone of Sharpton's query. A bad joke only made Dean look weaker.

Sharpton's talking about accountability not racial hysteria.

[hellhathnofury]

134. Edwards: Be consistent, it's important. Race is a defining issue.

Edwards: Prior discussion(econ) ignores big issue's in America. Help people on all problem. My point is, can't put these things in boxes.

[hellhathnofury]

138. Gep: 5-10% on fed contracts to minorites.

[tedoll78]

146. Hot potato!

Hot potato, hot potato, hot potato! :party:

"Look Daddy - a quarter!"

[hellhathnofury]

158. New thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=101770

[Renew Deal]

162. Edwards is getting pissed.

And he is partly right.

[the populist]

181. He is right.

"Edwards voted with Bush 52% of the time."

Absolute nonsense. Just a general statement to get people scared. I've lost all respect for that woman when she called Geppie a protectionist.

[w13rd0]

163. DANG!

CMB comes out RIPPING those attacking Dean to SHREDS!

YES CMB! GO, don't get that girl mad!

GO CAROL! GO CAROL!

[Andromeda]

203. CMB stuck up for Dean in the last debate too.

She doesn't mince words. YOU GO CAROL! She knows how devisive the race issue is and knows how some people---LIKE SHARPTON---use it to gain political points.

[BeyondGeography]

165. It's official: The Reverend is anti-Doctor

Dean folks, maybe it's the Jessie Jackson, Jr., endorsement, but Howard needs to patch this thing up with Al in a hurry. That's was a major smackdown we witnessed tonight.

It also shows the risks we run by nominating the ex-Governor of a state that's 97% white. George W. Bush can say he had a more diverse cabinet as Governor than Howard Dean.

[texas is the reason]

166. i love you carol!!!

told pander-ass sharpton to STFU!!

[mbali]

174. CMB sure is protective of Dr. Dean tonight

Where was all this fire when Dean was attacking the other candidates during the past six months?

[imax2268]

178. I have lost

some serious respect for Sharpton yet again...he is a great speaker and crowd motivator...but these attacks on Dean and playing the race card is getting old...

[mbali]

187. I ask again - why do you give Dean credit for talking about race

but accuse Sharpton of "race-baiting" when he talks about it?

[Maddy McCall]

177. Dean is touting his minority-group endorsements, but his record speaks

more loudly than endorsements.

His negligence of minority appointments makes any "Trent Lott" remark he makes completely insincere.

[White Mountain]

182. Dean question for audience

Man another dumb move and he looked so foolish. This is sickening as a Dean guy.

[TLM]

196. Yeah sure... that was a genius move.

Watch the press attack, but his poll numbers go through the f-ing roof!


DEAN IS A GENIUS!


He just ground that debate to a halt... that 30 seconds was more interesting that all the debates combined so far and it will be played a MILLION times over the next week.

Ask how to overcome the football coverage, Dean just did. Can't wait for the 11:00 news.

Dean opponents will be all over him for disrespecting the process... because he asked a question of an audience member instead of another candidate. Dean tried to give a voice to the regular person on the ground, probably something suggested on the blog, and of course they said no because that wasn't the format the candidates agreed to.

So Dean comes off as the guy trying to give the regular person a voice in the process, yet being shut down by the very process so many people are sick of. Then cut to commercial, after Dean had opted not to ask his question after they rejected the attempt to let the audience member answer the question about what candidates should we be doing?


It totally came off as all eyes on Dean while he tried, despite the process, to give the average guy a voice... and was prevented from doing so by the process.

[oasis]

205. It was about rules that were agreed upon by all debate participants.

So most people would think that NOT honoring a mutual agreement was a good thing?

[mandyky]

183. Darn, I missed it! What was Dean's question?

Something from the audience? I heard part of the back and forth between Dean and Lester Holt...

[White Mountain]

185. Dean's question

He named an audience member and asked him waht he thought was important in this election. This got ruled out of order with the guidelines the candidates had agreed to.

[twilight]

194. I noticed that too ...

It was like he couldn't ask another person running for President a question could he?

:wtf:

[mbali]

189. Am I the only one who thinks that this is the best debate so far?

[oasis]

199. Yes,D K. provided spark. Edwards, Kerry and even Joe L. helped themselves

CMB did well, but lost points when she tried to bail out Dr. Dean who didn't seem to appreciate it.

Gephardt was flat. Sharpton was best when it came to straight talk but may have offended some.

[Andromeda]

204. CMB GAINED points by sticking up for Dean...

because Sharpton was way out of line by race-baiting Dean. He has done this before and shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

[oasis]

206. Sharpton was a tad abrasive with his attacks on Dean. He was on point

with the other issues.

[funky_bug]

190. Sharpton on endorsements

"You only need co-signers if your credit is bad."

Yep - you can tell he's a preacher.

[goodhue]

191. new thread already

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=101770