t r u t h o u t Poll - Kucinich at 30.5% !!!

[twilight]

Who is your preference for democratic presidential nominee? (in alphabetical order)
Dean 39.8%
Kucinich 30.5%
Clark 21.7%
Kerry 3.7%
Edwards 2.3%
Braun 0.9%
Sharpton 0.6%
Gephardt 0.4%
Lieberman 0.2%

Total votes: 1749

Link: http://www.truthout.org/index_php.php



:dem:

[Renew Deal]

1. Why does this matter?

Who cares what any internet poll says? A CNN poll says clark is supported by over 1,000,000 people. The next closest is like 30,000

[Virgil]

3. 31.5% Kucinich, 39.4 Dean at 12:47AM EST n/t

[Virgil]

4. Maybe CNN is wrong

Who believes in CNN? They might be right, but who really knows. I agree that with just 2100 people voting it is not significant in itself.

I wish I could somehow express my belief that the country needs Kucinich. People that support Kucinich have to overcome the silence and put-downs of the media on Kucinich. He is different than all the rest. He says end NAFTA and the WTO. Who else is saying that and why not? We all know now it was a tool of industry and it was wrong and on that I do blame Clinton and the DLC.

We broke international law to have a pre-emptive occupation of Iraq and we need to get out and we need help. We need to get out and stop the crap that says we are not occupying the country. We are not fighting insurgents. We are fighting people that don't like being invaded and occupied.

No one else in the party even wants to discuss the War on Drugs that we use to impose a 30-year old civil war in Colombia and destabalize most of Latin America. Everyone says it is a huge failure and nobody except Kucinich even wants to talk about it. Now, why is that? Do they want more failure? No. They do not care one way or the other. They only care about getting elected just like Bu$h. In the last election Gore and Bu$h agreed to not discuss the War On Drugs as any discussion would only bring up words like failure, waste, fraud, corruption, CIA, imperialism and so on.

Kucinich is the man the country needs. What this poll does show is that people that are on the Internet are different than the general population. They do not accept the thought herding from Time Warner, Disney, GE, Westinghouse, and NewsCorp.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

52. Um, you do realize that this was a poll on a left-wing site?

That kinda tells you a little bit about the people who might be voting on it. Where do you think Kucinich has a higher degree of support--on a leftwing website, or in the real world amongst average Americans?

[Clark4VotingRights]

6. I care.

'Cause I think DK's about as great as a human can be.
He make's me wistful.

We could have the likes of Kucinich or Clark...
but we have King George.

[info being]

20. Kucinich is on par with the greatest Americans ever

This man is the embodiment of everything that makes me pround about this country.

[tinanator]

48. Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!!!

This has happened many times before, and will happen many times again. Only, in the future, there will be ballot boxes involved.
If it helps any bitter types, the satisfaction may kill me.

[hellhathnofury]

60. No better than DU polls.

Godbless those Clark supporters.

[dweller]

2. 31% now n/t

peace,
dp

[dweller]

5. 32.2% at 1:10 am

peace,
dp

[ThirdWheelLegend]

7. Dennis is the one!

People starting to wake up and realize we need REAL change and not just rhetoric?!

Go Dennis!

TWL

[Printer70]

8. Are you named after Grandfather Twilight?

http://www.kucinich.us/endorsements/endorsements/grandfather_twilight.php

The fictional character who "endorsed" Dennis?? That was one of the strangest press releases I've ever seen!

[ThirdWheelLegend]

9. The author of the book?

Speaking through a character in the book?
Wow what a 'strange' idea. Nice try.


I don't know if DU gives awards for the most Kucinich threads on which one posts negative leaning responses.

TWL

[LWolf]

13. As an elementary school teacher and

former school librarian, I loved this endorsement. Of course, I've been living and breathing children's literature my whole life, so I feel comfortable when an author uses her character to say something important.

Not enough children grow up living and breathing literature, IMPO.

[twilight]

14. no, Grandfather Twilight was named after me!

:D

Nice to see the #'s are still going up - its close, very close indeed! Yippee Rep. Kucinich! :party: :party: :party:



:dem: :kick:

[Gretchen]

16. is it any stranger than celebrities using their public personas to

promote a candidate or issue?

I think it is quite similar.

Besides the endorsement was unique, clever and cute.

[Desertrose]

10. woohoo! 1:20AM Dennis at 33.6%

time for bed ...yawn.....

Peace
DR

Dennis :yourock:

my last update...1:37AM

Who is your preference for democratic presidential nominee? (in alphabetical order)

Dean 37.3%
Kucinich 33.7%
Clark 20.8%
Kerry 3.8%
Edwards 2.1%
Braun 0.8%
Sharpton 0.8%
Gephardt 0.4%
Lieberman 0.2%
Total votes: 2569

[dweller]

11. And as the light breaks in the East

t r u t h o u t Poll
Who is your preference for
democratic presidential nominee?
Dean 36.8%
Kucinich 34.1%
Clark 20.6%
Kerry 4.1%
Edwards 2.3%
Sharpton 0.8%
Braun 0.7%
Gephardt 0.5%
Lieberman 0.2%

Total votes: 2888

7am,
dp

[rhite5]

12. 4:50AM PST

Dean 36.8%
Kucinich 34.1%
Clark 20.6%
Kerry 4.1%
Edwards 2.2%
Sharpton 0.8%
Braun 0.7%
Gephardt 0.5%
Lieberman 0.2%
Total votes: 3075

Kucinich - the only candidate to clearly articulates the issues.
- The only candidate with a detailed plan to deal with the issues.
- The only candidate who has taken action (introduced legislation) on each issue, including blackboxvoting which the others won't touch.

[redqueen]

15. Actually Kerry is now the latest to adopt DK's leadership on Diebold BBV

Another one follows the leader. :D

[info being]

22. I noticed how they're all using DK messaging

Even Lieberman is talking about the end of fear.

[redqueen]

27. Yep

Thank goodness for DK. Real leadership, real issues. :D

[LWolf]

41. I noticed that, too.

Dean is all of a sudden backing away from the "angry guy" and talking hope.

Edwards brought in the hope.

And Lieberman...not only offered up a butchered version of "the end of fear and beginning of hope," but touted pre-K through college public ed.

[helleborient]

17. Kucinich and Dean...the favored candidates of the literate left! (n/t)

[info being]

87. Exactly, the trick is you have to be well-read to support them

[Padraig18]

18. This is an absolutely meaningless poll.

I could freep a Bill O'reilly poll and make DK the 'winner', if I wanted to...:eyes:

[no name no slogan]

19. All polls are meaningless

Maybe you need to see what's going on in Des Moines to convince you: http://us.denniskucinich.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2372

The newspapers and television networks would have us believe that the country’s democrats support Howard Dean – and by a long shot. The newspapers and television networks would also have us believe that Howard Dean has things locked up in Iowa.

Hmm. This is simply not what we see from the ground, and not what we hear either.

From what we see here in Des Moines, 80% of the currently placed front yard political posters support Dennis Kucinich. I drove the neighborhoods yesterday. Thought I would be inundated with Dean posters. I saw exactly one. Kucinich posters were all over town. In neighborhoods wealthy and poor, in poster sizes large and small. Even the political billboards were 100% Kucinich.

Yesterday evening and this afternoon I randomly telephoned people who usually caucus every four years here in Des Moines. Guess what? Of the 20 people I reached and talked to, nine solidly supported Dennis Kucinich. A few were solid Dean supporters. Most of the others were leaning for either Kerry or Edwards, but not solidly.

Of course, maybe you'll want to join us, after Dean's subpar performance last night. We'd be glad to have you on board! :D

[twilight]

21. Wow!

Thanks for the story and link!

This is REALLY encouraging news indeed!

All the way for DK!!!! :D



:dem: :kick:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. I would like to remind everyone

that the media have been blindsided before.

I don't remember whether it was 1984 or 1988, but Pat Robertson won the Republican caucuses in Iowa. Now, we may thank God that we never had a "President Robinson," but this development showed two things:

1) The media had no clue. I remember the pundits and newscasters sitting there with "what the hell?" looks on their faces.

2) It was the first indication of the takeover of the Republican party by the fundamentalists. Even though they didn't get their favorite candidate, they announced their arrival in a decisive way.

[no name no slogan]

24. Yeah, it was 1988-- what a year!

Saint Pat wins in Iowa, and Jesse Jackson finished in the top 3, IIRC. Jesse scared the bejeebus out of the Dems back then, and people were actually talking somewhat seriously about a Jesse Jackson presidency.

1988 was my first year doing party politics, and I got as far as the MN state convention. It was also one of the first times I heard Paul Wellstone speak on behalf of Jesse Jackson's campaign to a packed convention in Rochester, MN.

Of course we know what happened after that! :D

[PVnRT]

92. Once again, this does not mean much

It could just be that Des Moines Kucinich supporters are more zealoius with their support, more willing to put up those signs. This is not a measure of his ability to win anything.

Besides, this comes from a Kucinich web site - hardly an unbiased source.

[WilliamPitt]

25. The poll is unfreepable

[Padraig18]

26. All polls are freepable.

All you have to do is tell enough like-minded individuals to vote in it and 'Voila!', it's freeped.

[Nadienne]

28. two and a half thousand

internet-savy people...

How does that compare to the number of participants in other polls?

[Paulie]

29. Compares well

Who answers the phone anymore? Everyone I know either screens their calls by letting the machine/vmail answer, or they have privacy manager on their phones. How can this be worse?

[Nadienne]

32. Even phone banks can be rigged.

Hence, the same polls that show Kucinich in last place are of equally dubious credibility.

[WilliamPitt]

31. That's voting, not freeping

Freeping is spoofing the software to allow one person to vote repeatedly. Lots of people coming to vote is lots of people coming to vote.

[Padraig18]

37. We disagree on the definition.

Freeping is distorting a poll to produce a 'snapshot' of the electorate that is at odds with the political reality vis a vis the electorate.

[redqueen]

38. So then you admit a lot of polls are 'freeped'?

Note: the letter that was sent in by a woman who, when polled, was given no opportunity to say she supported Kucinich.

Also, many, many polls are 'distorted' by using leading questions and the like.

So, are you saying polls are usually useless because they're 'freeped' by the people conducting the polls?

[Padraig18]

70. Not what I'm saying at all.

Scientific polls are rarely freeped; online polls are subject to freeping by definition.

[RetroLounge]

66. No it's not Freeping.

It may be meaning less, or distorted from the general public, but it's NOT freeping.

Will is correct. It's just voting.

If the Clark Camp tells peopoe on their blog to come here and vote ona poll, it's not Freeping, it's just good organizational skills. It may not reflect the views of the public at large, but so what.

[economic justice]

56. Most people

consider a poll "freeped" when Free Republic posts a link to a poll and they arrive to vote en masse.

[tinanator]

63. No, that is now called "Clarking"

occasionally also "Deanified". The evidence of exactly what you are talking about is all over the place on uncontrolled internet opinion polls. Its pretty funny, but I would say the Clark campaign/support base is fast and furious to do exactly that.

[RetroLounge]

65. If they are like minded, it's not Freeped.

Everyone gets a vote. If someone elses GOTV is better, so be it.

If the same person votes multiple times, it's Freeped.

[Room101]

39. voted

;)

[revcarol]

30. Got to re-register and vote.

changed my e-mail, virus and spam.

GO DENNIS!!

[Tinoire]

33. Excellent - The best scenario would be for those to to link up somehow

that would make it a win-win for the Democratic Party & the people in general.

Dean 35.5%
Kucinich 35.1%

[SeveneightyWhoa]

51. Riiiight.

My website recently had a poll asking who should be Wes Clark's running mate--and Sharpton came in first. I guess this is proof that Clark-Sharpton would be a win-win?

[VelmaD]

34. I voted.

And it felt SOOOOOO good. ;-)

[twilight]

35. yee hawwwwwww!!!!!!! DK is ahead - 35.3% v. 35.2%!!!

Who is your preference for Democratic presidential nominee? (in alphabetical order)
Kucinich 35.3% :D :D :D :D :party: :party: :party: !!!!!
Dean 35.2%
Clark 20.1%
Kerry 4.7%
Edwards 2.3%
Sharpton 0.8%
Braun 0.8%
Gephardt 0.6%
Lieberman 0.2%

Total votes: 5943




:dem: :kick:

[no name no slogan]

36. Thought I'd share this on the occassion...

This came from a newsgroup, and was posted by Danny Welch (www.danielpwelch.com). The emphasis is mine:

As of 1:45 today, Kucinich has pulled ahead of Dean in the Truthout.org straw poll. While we don't know if he will remain ahead, this is a significant occurence. Many may dismiss the importance of such polls; however, it is important to keep in mind that truthout.org is where many "mainstream progressives" go to get the news others hide. Taking into account a decidedly pro-Dean bias among some writers of TO, Kucinich's viability here is a true accomplishment. I consider it like a rematch of the MoveOn poll several months ago; and this time, the positions are reversed. It is wise to be cautious about reading too much into it, but since I can't be disproved, what the hell--I say the tide is turning...

Yes, polls can be freeped, but the readers of TruthOut are, like Danny said, "mainstream progressives" who come to TO to read stuff that the mainstream media has buried (or is trying to bury).

KEEP ON KEEPIN' ON!

[Green4Dean]

54. Dean lead before Kucinich sites started promoting the poll...

The bottom line is Dean was winning until the Kucinich campaign started promoting the poll...It wasn't truthout readers that put dennis ahead...it was people responding to The Kucinich campaign posting the link on all of their sites...

[Padraig18]

78. Bingo!

Very good, grasshopper. :)

[Nadienne]

79. Well, then, it's a very good thing

Kucinich has such good internet support, then, eh?

I thought internet organization was Dean's strength... lol

[Padraig18]

81. Yeah, but Gov. Dean's will actually translate in votes and delegates.

:hi:

[Nadienne]

83. Who says Kucinich's won't? (n/t)

[Padraig18]

84. We'll see, won't we?

:hi:

[Nadienne]

86. An amusing editorial

In my local paper, the Sioux City Journal:

editorial

Here's a clip from it:

With nine candidates in the Democratic field, it's going to look like a square dance without a caller at some precincts as Kucinich backers eye Mosley-Brauns and Liebermans across a crowded room with the thought of a political conjugality. In the mating dance, they bob and weave exploring each other's common ground and just as they are to become viable, a flock of Kucinichs swoop in and break the whole thing up.

Best of luck to all candidates...

[Padraig18]

88. Agreed: Best of luck to everyone!

peace. :)

[PVnRT]

94. OK, so mainstream progressives (a third of them) are solidly behind him

Frankly, I don't expect anything different. Now, how about the rest of the country? Or do they not matter?

[Nadienne]

95. How much do you trust polls?

Does it depend on the outcome?

[PVnRT]

97. No, it doesn't

Nice try, thanks for playing, please come again.

[Nadienne]

98. Hey, that's why I asked

Next question: Which polls are an accurate sampling of the active, voting, primary- or caucus-going public?

Can't all polls be fudged a little? Manipulated to produce a desired result? Aren't all results questionable?

I ask out of curiousity. I sincerely want to know, and I'll try not to hold your answer against you.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

40. wooo

Kick! :)

Hey I only voted once and haven't told anyone else about this poll, am I a freeper?

TWL

[Nadienne]

96. I didn't vote at all

And I intend to caucus for Kucinich...

See? The poll is false. Kucinich's numbers should be higher than they are...

lol

[LWolf]

42. Ahead by 12.4 % at 6:50 pm PST.

Who is your preference for Democratic presidential nominee? (in alphabetical order)
Kucinich 44.4%
Dean 32.0%
Clark 15.7%
Kerry 3.7%
Edwards 2.0%
Sharpton 0.8%
Braun 0.7%
Gephardt 0.5%
Lieberman 0.2%

Total votes: 11359

:kick:

[goobergunch]

43. Online polls are meaningless (n/t)

[twilight]

44. DK ahead - 44.4% now! :)

Who is your preference for Democratic presidential nominee? (in alphabetical order)
Kucinich 44.4% :toast: :toast: :toast:
Dean 32.1%
Clark 15.5%
Kerry 3.7%
Edwards 2.0%
Sharpton 0.8%
Braun 0.7%
Gephardt 0.5%
Lieberman 0.3%

Total votes: 11782 :toast: :toast: :toast:



:dem: :kick:

[goodhue]

45. cool

11,782 votes is a lot of votes for a "meaningless" online poll!
And over 5,200 them voted for DK. Color me impressed.

[Tinoire]

46. Just "Let It Be"

And when the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be. Yeah
There will be an answer, let it be.

[ShaneGR]

47. Congratulations for doing so well in an unscientific online poll

Good luck!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

50. Yes, congrats!

Maybe one day, Presidents can be chosen by visitors to left-wing websites?

[Zomby Woof]

49. ZombyDKick

[Green4Dean]

53. Kucinich campaign was the only one that promoted the poll

If the other campaigns pushed the poll like the Kucinich camp it would have been a different story...the other campaigns votes are without promotion...Dean is getting a third of the vote without promoting it on Dean sites...

[nickgutierrez]

55. So is it Dennis's fault for promoting it...

or Dean/everybody else's fault for ignoring it?

[Green4Dean]

57. not being critical

Just explaining that it is not realistic to believe that a majority of truthout regulars support Kucinich...the first 12 hours went to Dean...then the influence of the outside promotion started turning the tide...

[ThirdWheelLegend]

58. and if Kucinich supporters never saw the poll?

Then only the Dean supporters directed there by other people would have slanted the results?

It goes both ways. How do you know 90% of the Dean voters on their were not directed there by someone or some post or some site?

Just want to pose the question :)

TWL

[SeveneightyWhoa]

59. Is it even worth arguing about?

It's an online poll. It's 1% as valid as a scientific poll, which aren't all that reliable in the first place. Maybe we should be worrying about more important things than internet polls on liberal websites?

[Green4Dean]

61. I went to all the campaigns web pages

The Kucinich site was the only one with a link....also the kucinich yahoo group had discussion about how to vote more than once...

[Green4Dean]

62. look at this link...

http://www.kucinich.us/VolunteerAction/

look at the top of the page...It is the official campaign site...

[tinanator]

67. omg, youre right!

clearly, these people are crooked as snakes!
I thought you were going to link to the discussions on voting more than once?

[Green4Dean]

75. I don't think anything is wrong with it...

The links explain why Dennis won...thats all I am saying...

[Nadienne]

72. Good thing for Kucinich

his website gets so much traffic... eh? lol

[diamondsoul]

89. Which Kucinich Yahoo group, please?

I'm a member of several and have seen possibly one post about multiple voting, with a response from someone else saying not to do it.

[tinanator]

64. spin baby spin

this is not the first time we have seen exactly the same results, and the fact is, you only get one vote. I dont think the Dean/Clark camps are ignorant of the poll at this point, do you? A fair poll of active left/anti-Bush voters is perfectly appropriate for primary season, and here it is.

[RetroLounge]

68. So Dennis get a good showing on a Poll

Good on him!

Why all the Sour Grapes from other supporters?

Grow up...

[Snivi Yllom]

69. nice poll but

It has nothing to do with reality.

[tinanator]

71. what form of media does?

oh arbiter? Dont leave us hanging, we are all desperate for a sweet taste of reality. Aren't we?

[Freddie Stubbs]

73. When is comes to getting real people to come out to support a candidate

Area Dems support Dean

By STEPHEN ORAVECZ Tribune Chronicle

NILES - Howard Dean was the favorite candidate of the 800 Democrats who turned out Monday night at Niles Middle School to select delegates to the presidential nominating convention, but it was clear from the opening remarks that the person they all wanted to defeat was President Bush.

Democratic leaders were nothing short of enthusiastic about the turnout, which was three to four times larger than the caucus four years ago, according to Greg Hicks, the Warren law director who organized Monday's event. He and others frequently noted the large number of young people attending.
''We encouraged them to come, and they did,'' Hicks said.

The turnout ''means I don't think people are happy with the president we've got. They're enthused to make a change,'' said Christ Michelakis, chairman of the Trumbull County Democratic Party.

http://www.tribune-chronicle.com/news/story/0113202004_new01dean13.asp

Of course this happened in Ohio, a right-wing state where they have probably never heard of Dennis Kucinich.

[Nadienne]

77. "enthused to make a change"

Many Dean supporters (especially those new to politics) seem "enthused to make a change", to get rid of Bush. I myself am hungry for change. Why do they think Dean can do it, I wonder?...

[Freddie Stubbs]

80. He is a persuasive guy

Politics is the art of persuasion, and he is appernetly much better at it then most of the other candidates (even the home state guy). ;)

[Nadienne]

85. I suppose you're right

"Politics is the art of persuasion." It certainly explains Bush*'s successes. (Note that I am not comparing Dean to Bush. The game is rigged, and not in our favor. Not even in Dean's favor.)

Oh, how I long for a change...

[LincolnMcGrath]

74. 9:10AM (CST)

Kucinich 44.7%
Dean 32.4%
Clark 14.8%
Kerry 3.7%
Edwards 2.1%
Sharpton 0.9%
Braun 0.6%
Gephardt 0.5%
Lieberman 0.3%

Total votes: 15318

[Nadienne]

76. Kucinich

Is he so unpopular?

or is it perhaps, "I like him, but..."

Strange: some people tell us the media is biased, but they believe the media when it says Kucinich can't win.

When Dean's polling numbers are highest, the polls are considered accurate - at least, accurate enough for the mainstream media. But when Kucinich does so well? "No, no, that can't be right."

If this poll is so inaccurate, then all polls - all polls are useless. In fact, you had better start doubting Dean's (and Clark's) top-tier "according to the polls" status.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

90. "then all polls - all polls are useless."

Nadienne said it!!! I didn't say it!

:)

TWL

[Nadienne]

93. lol

still, it is nice to see Kucinich on top :-)

[SeveneightyWhoa]

100. Riiiiight.

Are you familiar with the concept of scientific polling? Obviously not.

[Green4Dean]

101. you miss the point

Zogby polls are not call -ins...Zogby randomly calls a certain amount of voters without knowing where they lean...the truthout poll is closer to a call in poll...whoever calls more wins...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

82. This is always how that poll is....

n/t

[PVnRT]

91. Ummmmmmm

Do you really think that a truthout.com poll reflects everday Americans? If so, I have some great real estate in western Arizona to sell you...

[LincolnMcGrath]

99. Update

Kucinich 44.4%
Dean 32.5%
Clark 14.9%
Kerry 3.7%
Edwards 2.2%
Sharpton 0.9%
Braun 0.6%
Gephardt 0.5%
Lieberman 0.3%

Total votes: 17415

[LincolnMcGrath]

102. Update

Who is your preference for Democratic presidential nominee? (in alphabetical order)

Kucinich 43.4%
Dean 33.1%
Clark 14.9%
Kerry 3.7%
Edwards 2.3%
Sharpton 0.9%
Gephardt 0.7%
Braun 0.7%
Lieberman 0.3%

Total votes: 20885