What's up with CMB?

[jjmalonejr]

Does she seem a little wacky lately?

[Duder]

1. Seems to be one of the more

intelligent candidates to me.

[Clark4VotingRights]

47. Definitely one of the most intelligent candidates.

She's damn impressive.
It'd be a shame to waste her mind...

[Fleshdancer]

2. no. Why do you think so? n/t

[Kathleen04]

3. In the past 2 debates..

she's had moments where she responds to about 3 people at once in a really rushed manner..and then they have to pause and let everyone respond.

I think her attack at Edwards tonight seemed largly unwarranted.

[Red_Storm]

6. Her attack on Edwards about voting along with Bush..........

backfired big time......

[Andromeda]

65. How so?

:freak:

[angee_is_mad]

4. shes' looking 4 a JOB

with Dean if he is elected. Which her in the debates, everytime he gets an endorsement she always mention that she had spoken with the endorsee. She defends him during the debates, all the time.

[poskonig]

9. Makes sense to me.

:kick:

[sleipnir]

5. Because she's always been wacky....

People just tolerate her in general. They just accept her as a fringe candidate. In reality, she's more to the right than Lieberman, but, IMO, she gets a pass on a lot of her views because she's a woman and she's black. She's bucking the racial/sex status quo, so people are more apt to give her (wrongly) some slack.

[Kathleen04]

How is she..

more to the right than Joe?

[JohnKleeb]

10. how is she to Lieberman's right?

[sleipnir]

23. She has a lot of "centrist" views on Heathcare, the War, Int'l Relations

which you won't find on her website. I'd post links, but damn it, I've got a busy day tomorrow and I can't spend all night posting CMB links about her honest positions.

In short, she favors keeping troops in Iraq for an indefinate period (she claims to have fought against the War, but she offered no statements before the War)

Her experience as a Ambassador was odd and dangerous to say the least, she got drummed out of her seat in the House, and just look at her voting record while she sat in Congress. Her actions are louder than her words or the few "liberal" talking points she posts on her site.

I'd still vote for her over Lieberman, but that would be a tough vote for me.

[Kathleen04]

25. I haven't..

spent too much time learning about her policy positions aside from the debates, but I thought she was for single payer universal healthcare? I don't see how that would be a "centrist" position.

[shance]

37. Sleipnir, it would be best to get your facts straight before making claims

that are inaccurate about CMB.

I have met CMB and have followed her campaign from the beginning. She is a wonderful, compassionate, fair and extremely saavy woman, and what you mentioned about the Iraq war is totally inaccurate.

She did not support the war and I heard her say it myself at a fundraiser.

Her opinion is that we should repair and take responsibility for what has ocurred over there, by not just leaving a tragic mess, but re-righting our wrongs by helping to TRULY re-build Iraq, and not just going in and building a capitalistic extravaganza and destroying a culture.

I would imagine she has looked at the situation very thoroughly and I feel confident in her knowledge and experience over mine.

[salin]

11. Interesting perception

I have never read her to be to the right of Sen. Lieberman. And if she were - how is that fringe - seems that would suggest centrist with lots of current company.

[mouse7]

22. "Wacky" is beyond the pale. More BS attacks from white people

CMB achieved more in American politics with less than anyone on that stage.

The attacks on CMB for "personal credit card transactions ? It was for a total of $311.28., and all the people were proven to have put out WAY more out of their own pockets for the campaign.

The "misdeeds" regarding her mother's property timber sales? Edna Moseley's kids were paying out their own pocket to get their mom better health care at the nursing home. Edna Moseley recieved some money, and tried to pay her kids back for some of the money they had spent on her health care. Edna Moseley and her children thought health care costs were reimbusable. They were right, but only some of the expenses were allowed and some were disallowed. Illinois Public Aid was paid for what was not reimbusable when the request was made.

The income tax charges? The IRS did a 5 year investigation including full audits for 3 years of basically every financila transaction CMB made in those three years.

Why?

There is a letter from the lead IRS agent William E Doukas describing the reasons for his incredibly intense investigation. Apparently, Doukas decided that the amount of $roughly 32,000 dollars in cash donantions was way too low for a US Senate campaign of an African-American. He felt "cash would be the most prevalent method for donation to the Senator's campaign fund." In other words, the implications is made that African-Americans don't know how to write checks.

Is it reasonable to conclude racial bias was involved in the investigation of Braun?

Look at this quote from a Lead IRS agant Doukas memo

"Attorney _______ also spoke of a D of J memo which stated that a higher threashold for wrong doing should be applied to minority office holders. (If this is indeed the case, and such a position is in writing, Then it's time for us to turn in our badges. After all, if "they" are "smart 'nough" to get elected, "they" are "smart 'nough" to go to jail)"

CMB was an excellent public servant that was hunted down and ruined by the neo-cons. Rush Limbaugh played the theme music from The Jefferson's every time he mentioned her name. It was organized by racists element in our society, and you dragged that right-wing smear campaign onto this board, sliepnir.

Have you no shame?

[sleipnir]

26. You prove my point to a T

It's what I'm talking about. Question a black woman running for President and you get labeled a racist or a sexist.

Her past is shady, regardless of how you may view the evidence or outcome. If you're going to play the game of politics, you have to follow the rules and not deviate. She made some bad choices with money, finances, etc and the Radical Right pounced on her. True, many of the claims were ludicrous, but she still misappropriated money and that also bothers me. We don't hear about the Clark, Dean, or Lieberman's mishandling of donations because they know better than to screw around with political dynamite.

[mouse7]

33. I was right... another white bitching about CBM

All the evidence is on the CMB website. You don't care about evidence. Rush accused CMB of something, therefore it must be true, right

What I see is a caucasian that thinks it reasonable to have a far higher standard for African-American candidates to accomplish anything. You don't think it's reasonable to question the 1 MIL+ Wesley Clark recieved in speakers fee. You do think it's reasonable to question $311.28 of crdit card transactions.

It's clear there is bias in that behavior of yours.

[sleipnir]

34. I'm not even going to answer your post.

Other than, shame on you for assuming I'm white.

Mouse7, I usually agree with you, but this is assine

[mouse7]

36. Because you CAN'T explain it

Yon know I'm right.

You know you yelled about CMB's $311.28 while giving a pass on Clark's 1 MIL+.

[sleipnir]

42. I never said that...

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Good job, you win!

You may not believe it, but I do have problems, serious problems with Clark's speaking engagments.

But, Clark wasn't an elected offical at the time so there is a difference, but it seems you don't care.

The, "$311.28" excuse reminds me of the guy who said, "But officer, I was ONLY going 10 miles over the speed limit." It doesn't matter how much or how fast, you still violated the law, end of story.

I do hold our elected officals to a higher standard because I (and I think, and hope!, you do too, Mouse7) believe if I have trusted someone with my vote, then they should be honest, forthcoming and not try to lie to me. Which is why I'd be pissed as hell if any of the pro-IWR were my rep.

[mouse7]

45. It's like being 0.0024475 mph over speed limit with a wife in labor

All the individuals involved had receipts for personal out of pocket campaign expenditures. There was determined to be no wrongdoing.

The figure is what percentage $311.28 is of the $7 million in CMB's campaign budget compared to the 55 mph speed limit.

[sleipnir]

59. So it's ok to misappropriate $300???

In that light, it's ok for Bush to say that he killed 10,000 Iraqi's, but there's 10 million living there, so what the dif???

Seriously, that arugement is nothing less than perfuctory and meaningless.

[mouse7]

60. That's pretty desperate.... and it wasn't misappropriated

The $300 was all accounted for as I said before. The people involve all had stacks of recispts for campaign expensses they had paind out of pocket. It was a total of $311.28 that was UNDER QUESTIOJN. All the questions were answered when the receipts were shown.

Damn... to make an argument that desperate, and still have it disproven must suck, huh?

[sleipnir]

62. Nope, not really, but it's kinda sick that we're fighting over this...

I'm calling a truce and if you'll accept, perhaps we can move on. It's obvious that neither one of us is going to find an amicable answer on the issue, so why bother? I don't want to engage in a seemingly endless debate over CMB's money issues when we should be arguing over more stringent ideals, like the recent O'Neill comments, or *'s absurd policy on immigrants. So, perhaps we can fight against the *'s and others??? We obviously have differing views on CMB and nothing is going to change that.


N.B (Mouse7, I do enjoy your posts, but please don't assume people are white, they may not be, and it could offend them if you post accusations like that...)

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tatiana]

43. Actually, I think of her more as an opportunist.

But that's just my opinion.

[mouse7]

48. Oh...good... lord.... CMB may be the best qualified candidate in field!

Let's make this clear. CMB was an award winning prosecuting attorney in Chicago. CMB was an award winning state legislator in Illinois. She served in the US Senate. She served as an ambassador.

CMB is far more national political experience than Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, John Edwards, and Al Sharpton. CMB has more varied eperience that Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, Kucinich (none of which has hands experience as diplomats).

CMB is, in reality, has the best resume on that stage to serve as President.

[Tatiana]

49. She was a damn good prosecutor.

A damn awful politician.

And this is coming from someone who worked on her first campaign.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

44. her past is not shady

.

[bhunt70]

7. I think she is losing steam.

Perhaps the polling and fundraising is getting to her. She still smiles all the time and is a pretty good speaker but I think she is falling apart at the seams (or very close to it).

Lots of respect for her, Admittedly I never kept up with her before but the last three or four months have been good getting to know what she is all about.

edit-typo

[tritsofme]

15. You have to have steam before you can loose it. nt

[KaraokeKarlton]

8. Oh my God, listen to yourselves!

How quick some people on here are to attack the integrity of ANYONE who has anything nice to say about Dean or anyone who defends him! Carol Mosley Braun has had very little to say negative about anyone in this race, and she has been a ray of sunshine in the storm of this primary season. Shame on people for dissing her for speaking her mind. I'm disgusted!

[angee_is_mad]

12. i didn't diss her

I just said the sister is looking 4 a job. More power to her!

[KaraokeKarlton]

16. I don't think that's it

She's genuinely liked Dean all along...even when he was a long shot. If you go back and look at photos from early in the campaign there are some photos of them interacting that makes it clear that they genuinely like each other. And Dean will offer her a great job and would without her defending him. They sat together at the 40 year anniversary of the March on Washinton, too.

[angee_is_mad]

20. I am not surprised

[Tatiana]

27. LMAO!

Angee you a mess.

And yes, I agree. Girlfriend is trying to get a job and she knows at this point the route back into politics is through a plum appointment. Voters in IL will never reelect her, rightly or wrongly.

[angee_is_mad]

30. Especially the AA community

you can say all you want about Sharpton, but come election he is the one the nominee would want on their side to get the base out. CMB, doesn't have much of an impact nationally on the AA community.

But I respect her accomplishments all the same.

[Tatiana]

38. And what are those accomplishments?

I like CMB, personally. Worked on her first Senate campaign. But she let us down. Honestly, what did she do to distinguish herself in the Senate?

We have lots of AA female heroines such as Barbara Lee and Maxine Waters. I wouldn't quite put CMB in that category.

[angee_is_mad]

40. Maxine is my Girl

but her accomplishment was being the first AA senator. That's about it I guess.

[mouse7]

51. Neo-cons started full smear investigation the moment she was sworn in

You didn't read post #22. She never got the chance to do anything, but she still had a good record on legislation she sponsored and co-cponsored. Check the CMB website for the whole list.

[Tatiana]

53. She did NOT play smart politics!

WTF was she thinking with that trip to Nigeria. Without at least getting an OK from the Clinton administration? STUPID! Even Jesse Jackson Jr. called it "ill-advised" and the CBC condemned the action. Her own constituency!

Not someone I want as President or Vice-President. She should have known better. The financial charges, I could have given less than a shit about. The money was paid back. End of story. But Nigeria... that was just wrong.

[mouse7]

63. CMB wasn't perfect. GET HER!

7 trips to Nigeria were claimed by CMBs enemies. Only 3 were after 1992. The first was to meet her fiancees family, and she met Melson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, and several other important African leaders on that trip. The third trip was to go to the funeral of the son of the Nigerian dictator after that son was killed in a plane crash. She has "cover" on that trip as she was supposedly delivering backcannel messages for Clinton to the the dictator.

That leaves the trip to the dictator's son's wedding. That wasn't terribly bright. However, CMB and her fiancee each paid their own way the whole trip. Air fare, accomodations, etc. It's not a big error. It's one of those things that an apology should have been issued for, and then the issue disappeared. She did admit poor judgement. That should have been the end of it, but because CMB is an African American woman, it wasn't.

Again, compare what is expected of CMB to say, Gephardt? If Gephardt made a couple of trips to a corrupt country on his own dime, would we hear about it? Of course not.

[shance]

66. Exactly. HUGE double standard. And imagine if George Bush did this. LOL!

Cmon....this was not worthy of the ruthless, rabid dog, racist polics that it became.

Why is it Dems feed on their own when their own is being attacked unfairly?

DOES NOT COMPUTE......

[KaraokeKarlton]

13. And one more thing!

It's bad enough that so many ignore her as a candidate simply because she is black AND a woman! She's my 2nd choice and would be a wonderful VP!

[tritsofme]

19. I dismiss her as a VP candidate because

she lost her IL Senate seat to a repuke. A state just a few years later gave a landslide to Gore, and now is Dem top to bottom.

If we're going to win the election, Illinois' 23 electoral votes cannot be in jeopardy.

[KaraokeKarlton]

28. She lost because she was wrongfully smeared for going to a

freaking funeral. :eyes:

[tritsofme]

32. Does that negate my point? nt

[Clark4VotingRights]

54. Nothing can negate your point.

'Cause you didn't really have one.

[tritsofme]

61. My point is that she would be a liability to the ticket,

and we would be in danger of loosing a solid Democratic state, and more importantly, 23 electoral votes.

Those are the facts, regardless of how we got to this point.

[Tatiana]

35. That isn't the major reason why she lost.

She lost because of concern on the part of voters about her then-fiancé Kgosie Matthews, an "ill-advised" (in the words of Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr.) trip to Nigeria, and questions about possible ties To General Abacha.

She's an extremely talented woman who was very stupid. IL is a democratic stronghold and the fact that she lost to a Republican moron like Peter Fitzerald has been a sore spot for many IL Dems.

[mouse7]

52. She lost thanks to Fitzgerald/Rove smears

Rove coordiated all that Fitgerald stuff. You knew that didn't you?

[Tatiana]

57. Does NOT matter.

Attacks were expected. Rove did not send her to Nigeria. That was her and/or her then-fiance's decision. There were many ways Carol could have played it. She could have informed the Clinton administration of her desire to travel to Nigeria and made sure her ass was covered. As it was, NO ONE could defend her actions.

Not Clinton.

Not the CBC.

Not the party.

No one.

THAT'S the reason she lost. If you place yourself in a position where your own friends can't defend you, then you deserve what you get: in Carol's case, a loss of confidence on the part of IL voters.

And even with the trip, I think if she had just admitted it was ill-advised and moved on, she could have weathered the storm. But trying to defend the indefensive move was what sunk her, must like Kerry trying to defend his IWR vote is sinking him when all the public wants to hear him say is that he made a mistake.

[bhunt70]

14. ...

I dont think that was the jist of this post.

At least my response wasnt.

[KaraokeKarlton]

17. My post wasn't just a response to the original post

And it wasn't directed at ALL those who posted...just the majority, who are behaving like jackasses rather than donkeys, in my opinion.

[w13rd0]

24. She defended Dean...

...and as everyone knows, CU, oh, I mean, FU, I mean, DU, doesn't tolerate that kind of behavior. You are either with Dean, or you are against him. Dotcha know?

[diamondsoul]

41. No offense, but since you're so upset,

I wasn't at all bothered by her attempt to defend him. One thing that I did find a little odd was his reaction to it. Probably just me, but he seemed almost harsh with his response. Care to give me your impression of the exchange?

[John_H]

18. Not to pile on lieberman, but he seems increasingly like

a guy who's losing it. I almost felt sorry for him when he wacked out on the question thing.

CMB seems fine to me.

[KoKo]

21. She's a "lovely lady" and I'm glad she's been there debate after debate

standing up for Women, Children and family concerns. She's also tough and has answered questions about what Bush should have done about Iraq and our Foreign Policy relations with out countries in a well-informed, down to earth rational way.

She's tops with me! And I'd vote for her in a minute but I know she no chance of making it in 2004. But as a Cabinet Postion, she would be great. Compare her to the females in Bush's Cabinet! No one could hold a candle or even a match to "M-B."

Even her smile is a joy to see. Compare that to the "glowering females" in the Bush crowd. Frankly everyone in the Bush Admin is a sour face.

[Brian_Expat]

29. Strong woman = "wacky"?!?

Oh, how much America has to learn. :eyes:

[indigo32]

31. Yup

we've got a long ways to go.

[Fleshdancer]

50. Why isn't this thread locked yet?

If this was about Dean, Clark, or Kerry, it would have been locked minutes after it was created.

[Printer70]

58. Why do we have to lock everything?

No harm, no foul. I'd rather err on the side of free speech.

[funkyflathead]

55. IBFTL

[Printer70]

56. I've been impressed with her

CMB is far more reasonable and articulate than the impression I got from news reports on her before I became acquainted with her through the debates. An impressive woman. She has no chance in hell of being nominated, but so be it.

[Andromeda]

64. Why? Because she defended Dean?

You should be asking: "What's up with Al Sharpton?"