Check then refute this email

[Honor Where Are You]

I recieved this email and if I could implore some of you to rebuke thise email for me.




I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy
saying one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe.
Lemme see; have I got this straight?

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists-
good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Ahh, it's so confusing!

Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax
burden
on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". This is the
day
after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government. This
year, tax
freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been since
1991.
It's
latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice anything
special
about those dates?

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are
actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave
no explanation and provided no data for this claim.

Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy
men. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions,
all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an
old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that
sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has
figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

Pass this on. Only 61 days until the election.
End

Help me out here.

[curlyred]

1. try one of the internets and googles

Damn near everything in this e-mail is a factual error, and you really shouldn't have too much of a struggle to refute it.

[NYCGirl]

2. As I answered the last 150 times this POS was posted here...

Clinton's running for president again??? Who knew?!! Alert the media!!!

P.S. Not one American life was lost in Kosovo.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Snopes.com

They debunk everything; even stuff that's true. :)

There are a lot of just-plain-dumb mistakes in your tormentor's mail, too.

--bkl

[LynnTheDem]

4. WOW what a pack of long-debunked bullshit!

Kerry owns ONE HOME. That's a FACT. And he took a mortgage out on his ONE HOME to pay for his campaign.

His WIFE owns other homes. This is 2004 America; women are allowed to own property separately from their husbands. WOW cool huh!

And just a little aside...WHAT THE FUCK does it matter WHO owns HOW MANY HOMES???

Taxes; BUSH EARNS MORE MONEY ON HIS INVESTMENTS AND WEALTH than Kerry does. THAT'S why bush pays more taxes. WOW isn't that such a weird way of doing things!

Americans ARE IN EFFECT PAYING MORE. That's a FACT. And yes Kerry DID explain facts & figures, and then the WaPo had to correct themselves and admit that yes, IN FACT, Kerry is correct; Americans ARE PAYING MORE; all other forms of taxes have INCREASED BECAUSE of bush's tax cuts.

As for the Clinton crap, NEWSFLASH FOR THE STOOPID: Clinton is NOT PRESIDENT and HAS NOT BEEN PRESIDENT for the past FOUR YEARS!

Geeez, I thought rightwingnuts as stoopid as the one(s) who did that email crap had all died off already.

[Sparkly]

5. 100% Pure BS

Tell whoever emailed it to you to provide a link to a reputable source with a complete quote to back up EACH of those statements.

Hint: Not gonna happen.

[Honor Where Are You]

10. Should have thought of this!! Duh.

Thank you.

[democratreformed]

6. Oh, here you go: the reply I sent to this e-mail.

A brief history of the Serbian conflict:

Armed Conflict
Events Data

The Bosnian Civil War 1992-1995



Beginning several months later than fighting in the republics of Slovenia and Croatia, the Bosnian civil war was the most brutal chapter in the breakup of Yugoslavia. On February 29, 1992, the multiethnic republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, where Catholic Croats, Orthodox Serbs, and Muslim Slavs lived side by side, passed a referendum for independence -- but not all Bosnian Serbs agreed. Under the guise of protecting the Serb minority in Bosnia, Serbian leaders like Slobodan Milosevic (1941-) channeled arms and military support to them. In spring 1992, for example, the federal army, dominated by Serbs, shelled Croats and Muslims in Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital. Foreign governments responded with sanctions (not always tightly enforced) to keep fuel and weapons from Serbia, which had (in April 1992) joined the republic of Montenegro in a newer, smaller Yugoslavia. Bosnian Serb guerrillas carried out deadly campaigns of "ethnic cleansing," massacring members of other ethnic groups or expelling them from their homes to create exclusively Serb areas. Attacks on civilians and international relief workers disrupted supplies of food and other necessities just when such aid was most crucial: in what became the worst refugee crisis in Europe since World War II, millions of Bosnians (and Croatians) had been driven from their homes by July 1992. Alarmed by ethnic cleansing and other human rights abuses (which Croats and Muslims also engaged in, though to a lesser extent than did the Serbs), the United Nations resolved to punish such war crimes. In early 1994 the fierce three-way fighting became a war between two sides. In February and March the Muslims and Croats in Bosnia called a truce and formed a confederation, which in August agreed to a plan (developed by the United States, Russia, Britain, France and Germany) for a 51-49 split of Bosnia, with the Serbs getting the lesser percentage. Despite the Muslim-Croat alliance, the peace proposal, and an ongoing arms embargo against all combatants (an embargo criticized abroad for maintaining Bosnian Serb dominance in weaponry), the fighting did not stop. In 1994 and 1995 Bosnian Serbs massacred residents in Sarajevo, Srebenica, and other cities that the United Nations had in May 1993 deemed "safe havens" for Muslim civilians. Neither NATO air strikes (beginning in April 1994) nor the cutoff of supplies from Serbia (as of August 1994) nor the cutoff of supplies from Serbia (as of August 1994) deterred the Bosnian Serbs, who blocked convoys of humanitarian aid and detained some of the 24,000 UN troops intended to stop hostilities. Like their allies in Serbia, the Bosnian Serbs wanted to unite all Serb-held lands of the former Yugoslavia. By September 1995, however, the Muslim-Croat alliance's conquests had reduced Serb-held territory in Bosnia from over two-thirds to just under one-half -- the percentage allocated in the peace plan for the Serb autonomous region. On December 14, 1995, the leaders of Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia signed the Dayton peace accords, officially ending the wars in Bosnia and Croatia after about 250,000 people had died and more than 3 million others became refugees. NATO troops numbering 60,000 entered Bosnia to enforce the accords. In early 1998 about 30,000 NATO peacekeepers were still in Bosnia, which remained scarred by war and divided between the Muslim-Croat confederation and the Bosnian Serb region. Dozens of suspected war criminals had been indicted by the UN tribunal, including Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic (1945-) (who had resigned in June 1996), although many had not been arrested or tried.




Please note the parts above that I have underlined. Here are some differences between the Serbian conflict and the current
war against Iraq:
1. The Serbian conflict was a civil war. During the course of the war, Albanians were being killed at alarming rates.
2. Many countries banded together to attempt to solve the problem DIPLOMATICALLY BEFORE military action was taken.
3. The UN and its member nations unanimously supported action in the area.
4. The action that was taken was by NATO, NOT by the U.S. military. General Wes Clark was NATO supreme allied commander
at the time. I have his book about the war, but it is a very involved read and I haven't made a great deal of progress. I DO know
that this conflict was an air war and that NOT ONE SOLDIER WAS LOST during this conflict. Last I checked, there were over
1000 U.S. soldiers lost in Iraq.
5. The purpose of the action was to obtain peace in the region - NOT to change the regime.
6. Notice that a peace accord was agreed to and signed 22 months after the NATO took action. How long have US troops been in
Iraq? Do you foresee a peace treaty any time soon? Or, are you like me - and you see the sons and daughters of your
neighbors being forced to go to Iraq and fight the "insurgency"?
7. Aren't "Milosevic not yet convicted" and "Saddam turned over for trial" the same thing? Wes Clark had to go to the Hague
during the primaries to testify against Milosevic. What is different about the circumstances of Milosevic and Saddam? Saddam
has "not yet been convicted" either. Get back to me on this one in a couple of years.
8. For the war in Iraq, our President first claimed that Saddam was a threat to us in the very near future. Then, he pretended that
Saddam was in cahoots with Al-Queda. THEN, he publicly admitted that Saddam was just a bad man and needed to be gotten
rid of. In short, our President misrepresented his initial reasons for wanting to INVADE Iraq. He postured (and not very good, in
my opinion) at diplomacy when he knew all along that nothing could stop him from sending our sons and daughters to die in
another country for the "liberation" of the citizens of that country.

Other points about the "confusion" in this e-mail:
1. Many Democrats did not agree with or support the action in Serbia any more than they do Iraq. Wes Clark was continually
berated as being a "war-monger" because of his role in that war.
2. This election is NOT Bush versus Clinton. Clinton is no longer our president and never will be again. Bill Clinton is not the only
Democrat in America and not every Democrat agrees with every single thing Clinton said or did. (As a matter of fact, I was not
a strong Clinton supporter). This election is about either keeping the (I believe) inept leader we currently have or changing to a
new and better leader.
3. I don't know many Democrats who disagree with the action taken in Afghanistan. I do believe, however, that the action taken
in that country has not been a huge success. If it had, there would be peace in that region as well.
4. I won't even get started on the flight suit thing. OR the purple heart band-aids. Suffice it to say that I, personally, view both of
those things as disrespectful to our troops and disgrace to the Republican party.
5. John Kerry is married to a wealthy woman. Most of the wealth that is spouted about is hers, not his. Of course, this e-mail
doesn't tell you how much income taxes SHE had to pay. It also does not distinguish between HER houses and HIS houses.
The only house that he actually owns any part of is the one in Massachusettes. That's the one he was able to mortgage half
of to finance his primary campaign. The other houses are HERS.
6. More about the tax cuts. I can tell you from a personal standpoint how I feel about it: Our sales tax has gone up no less than
five times since Bush took office. I couldn't tell a dime's worth of difference on my federal tax return but my daughter could.
She and her husband made a combined income of around $20,000. Her tax burden was $278.00. I know that's not a whole lot
of money, but, in my opinion, people at this income level should not be paying over 10 percent in income taxes. By the way,
that was federal taxes. She had to pay state income taxes as well. This year, Arkansas had its first ever income tax
to make up for federal money shortfalls. So, if I just missed that dime on my federal taxes, I think it was more than taken
up by my increased sales AND property taxes.

To share with you:
BUSH'S RESUME

George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:


Ran for congress and lost.
Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.

With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas. Accomplishments:


Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America.
Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.

Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.
Accomplishments as president:


Attacked and took over two countries.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by anypresident in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than anypresident since the advent of television.

Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches /)
Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Records and References:



At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.
Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.

For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)


And, if you're still with me:
A comparison of John Kerry and George Bush's lives can be found here: http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=7073&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

[democratreformed]

7. And, as a follow-up, I sent this:

Former George W. Bush campaign aide and spokesman Darren Schmitz, speaking on behalf of his current G.O.P. candidate in Wisconsin, Gov. Scott McCallum, has lashed out at Clinton, Al Gore and the Democrats with what looks like it will be one of the chief Republican Party Big Lies of the 2002/2004 campaigns.
" turned their back on our security agencies, our military and ignored terrorists around the world, and we're now paying the price for their lack of action," said Darren Schmitz, GOP operative. (Source - Wisconsin State Journal)
Let's set the record straight about which administration did what in response to the threat of terrorist leaders, acts and groups.
Here is only part of the Clinton/Gore anti-terrorism record:
þ Developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.
þ Stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium bombing plot.
þ Tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).
þ Brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.
þ Did not blame Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.
þ Named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.
Here, in stark contrast, is part of the Bush/Cheney anti-terrorism record before September 11, 2001:
þ Backed off Clinton administration's anti-terrorism efforts.
þ Shelved Hart-Rudman report.
þ Appointed new anti-terrorism task force under Dick Cheney. Group did not even meet before 9/11.
þ Called for cuts in anti-terrorism efforts by the Department of Defense.
þ Gave no priority to anti-terrorism efforts by Justice Department.
þ Ignored warnings from Sandy Berger and Louis Freeh about the urgency of terrorist threats.
þ Halted Predator drone tracking of Osama bin Laden.
þ Did nothing in wake of August 6 C.I.A. report to president saying Al Qaeda attack almost certain.
þ By failing to order any coordination of intelligence data, missed opportunity to stop the 9/11 plot as Clinton-Gore had stopped the millennium plot.
þ Blamed Clinton-Gore for 9/11.
And here's the Bush/Cheney anti-terrorism record after September 11, 2001:
þ Prevented a bipartisan investigation of the circumstances and intelligence failures around 9/11
þ Later, when pressed into allowing an investigatory commission, the "National Commission on Terrorist Attacks", Bush appointed an alleged war criminal (Kissinger) to head it up.
þ When Kissinger quit amid a storm of conflict of interest allegations, 15 months after 9/11, the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks had no office, desks or even a telephone number.
þ Bush/Cheney then neglected to fund the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks.
þ Bush/Cheney bombed and invaded Afghanistan, and then installed an ex-employee of Unocal to govern the country, assuring that Unocal will get their long sought trans-Afgahnistan pipeline, and also assuring that the US will be even more hated in the region.
þ Bush/Cheney bombed and invaded Iraq, assuring thousands of new terrorist recruits from all over the Middle East would sign up to attack the United States.
þ Bush was forced by Congress, in March of 2003, to add a paltry $9 million in funding to his war budget for the commission (for comparison, the Starr/Clinton investigation cost $33.5 million and it's focus was a real estate deal gone wrong).
þ Bush/Cheney pushed for additional tax reductions for the super-wealthy, unprecedented during war time, thus ensuring less funding would be available for terrorist prevention.

[liberal N proud]

8. I got this from a repuk the other day

I just told him to back his fiction up with fact. Have not heard from him yet.
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...
It is $200 Billion not 87, and 0ver 1200 American soles and NO WMD's or link to alQueda!


Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...

The Serbs were committing Genocide! Sadam was only killing criminals!
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...
Were the fuck is the liberation, More Terrorist? More Killing? If that is liberation your screwed.
Clinton commits felonies while in office - good ... good...
Clinton lied about a BLOW JOB! That is the only crime you can pin on him!

Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...
Bush Lies every fucking time he opens his mouth and with his lies people die! (more than 1200 soldiers so far)
Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Crash? Date? Time? $$$$ Clinton balanced the budget, left a 3 trillion dollar surplus. All gone under the asshole in the white house now. GONE!

Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...
What upswing? Do you have full time permanent work? Lets see Oil $52/Barrel, Unemployment rate 5.3% (not counting those who have lost benefits and still no fucking job)


Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
I think Clinton was the one who warned your monkey boy about Bin Laden and he chose to ignore it.

World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...
Ignored the warnings! DUH! bya


I got more mouthy with my response as I read and responded.



Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
I don't think you are listening here, FAUX news is in your head!

Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...
No one has said what shrub has done in Afghanistan was bad except that he like his father did not finish the fucking job. Were is Osama?



Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
But the man is no longer killing people and we do not have troops dying there.

Saddam turned over for trial - bad...
And look at the fucking mess we are in! Are you happy. If your prick gets back in office, I will hold you accountable for the lives of any others killed in Iraq.



Ahh, it's so confusing!
Maybe if you would read a real newspaper or watch some real news you might get a better picture. But I bet you can't tear your self away from the liar on FAUX can you?
This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been
since 1991. =It's latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000.
Notice anything special about those dates?
And we just keep borrowing and borrowing, I guess you won't have to worry about paying for this and who gives a shit about our kids, RIGHT!
They won't have jobs or even an education with the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND that the GOP has imposed on the schools.
Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men.
Georgy was born with a silver spoon in his Ass, John Kerry was born in a military hospital!


Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas.
He only bought that because his advisor (KKKarl Rove) thought it would make him look more like Reagan.



Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars.

(His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in
pieces. Not your average A-frame).
He Earned IT!



Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year....

Kerry paid $90,000. Does that sound right? NO!


The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid
paying his own.





Pass this on. Only 37 days until the election. That is less than 25 days at this point, You must be a victim of the No Child Left Behind, Your math skills suck




I don't know where you get this shit, it only rhetoric, I see no real facts here besides the fact that junior is a lying bastard, Next time you want to share information get the actual facts and back them up with the proof!
JUST THE FACTS!

OH! BTW, I did not share this with the others so as not to embarrass you any further!

[mimitabby]

9. hey liberul and proud!

i am proud of YOU! you actually get crap like this in emails
and are able to shove good answers right down their throats!

you are a true american patriot.

keep up the good work.

mimi