Eleanor Clift on Dean....Damaged Goods? (real title)

[Gloria]

http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3763267&p1=0

Damaged Goods?
WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Eleanor Clift
Newsweek

Dec. 19

(snip)

The president's job is to bring a sense of priorities to foreign policy. Saddam wouldn't have made the top 10 list of threats if it weren't for the grudge the Bush family held. But being right on the merits isn't enough for Dean if he doesn't have the credibility to explain himself. Politics demand simplicity, and Dean's position is more complicated than "we got 'em." He argues that the war in Iraq diverted resources from the war against terrorism, and that the U.S.-led invasion has become a recruiting tool for terrorists in the Arab world.

Hardcore Deaniacs won't abandon their leader; they're cheering him on. But most voters don't know much about Dean, and the attacks by rival Democrats have jolted the party's supporters into a bad case of buyer's remorse even before the first vote is cast. Depending on your vantage point, this is either an opportunity to take a hard look at the man who could be the nominee, or it's an invitation to a self-destructive campaign among Democrats that will send a weak and wounded nominee into the lion's den with Bush.

Dean is well on his way to becoming damaged goods. His rivals are doing the Republicans' dirty work by conflating Dean's lack of national-security experience with his record of popping off to create the kind of character issue that could prove deadly next year. "This is not a guy who is temperamentally fit to be president," says an aide to a ranking Democratic senator on the Foreign Relations Committee.

MORE

[Padraig18]

1. Ummm, an editing suggestion:

You might want to edit outr the 'Deaniacs' in Ms. Clifts article, per the new rule.

[Skinner]

5. Since this is a quote we will permit it.

Ms. Clift is not a member of DU.

[windansea]

7. we are supposed to edit content of articles now?

that could be tiresome

[Gloria]

8. Do the rules apply to the text of articles?????

Hey, they'll have to take it up with Eleanor Clift. How can I edit an article like that????

Clarification on all this needed. I don't use nicknames when I write, but I can't control what's in the press.....

[Triana]

2. he's 'damaged goods' only if..

you let Eleanor Clift convince you he is. You mean to tell me this:

"He argues that the war in Iraq diverted resources from the war against terrorism, and that the U.S.-led invasion has become a recruiting tool for terrorists in the Arab world."

... is NOT true? The war in Iraq DID divert resources from the war on terrorism that would have been much better used elsewhere and the invasion definitely has become a recruiting tool for terrorists. He's right.

I think Dean states without apology just where the bu$hit in the buckwheat and that is one thing I like about him, no matter what Mz. Clift thinks. If I want HER opinion, I'll give it to her. ;)

[robbedvoter]

12. I don't let her convince me now, I didn't let her before when she&rest

were crowning HD in the "can he be stopped" phase. I also disagree with her assesment that HD struck the right note the day Saddam was caught. It was not a day to celebrate - since 20 people were killed in Itaq that day.
Other than that, now as ever - it's in the hands of the voters.

[Triana]

35. of course...

...if the voters are allowed to vote and their name isn't on some erronoeus voter cleansing list, and if the vote is counted and counted properly - both of which are things that concern me greatly in 2004 even more than which candidate wins the nom (I'll support whoever wins the Dem nom, probably)

[BootinUp]

36. Yes Dean is right

I am supportive of Dean holding his position with regard to his Iraq and Sadaam comments. But I don't think the author is necessarily contradicting Dean's position. Just saying he is going to have a hard time making that case to the majority of blood thirsty war mongering Americans, plus the attacks against Dean by Ghephardt, Lieberman, and Kerry, are doing damage that will cost him next November. She has a point BTW.

[Rose Siding]

3. She's admonishing Dean's critics

for doing repub "dirty work" just as happen here on DU. Good for her.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I see the media is trying to destroy Dean

so once Dean is over with, who is next? Clark? Will they destroy Clark? What about Kucinich? What about Sharpton? Yep, anybody who emerges will be destroyed by the Media, who now are self appointed king makers.

And they like the king they have right now, George Bush the Lesser... so don't let the media whores tell you that ANY candidate is damaged goods, and for god sakes let them know such.

[WiseMen]

13. Media Give, Media Takes Away. NO! Media is BOOSTING Dean with PUB

[Scott Lee]

14. Will, I don't think that's accurate.

The media has been as harsh on Howard Dean as many of his Democratic rivals have. Such articles have been posted here on DU volimnously, and I'm sure you've seen them.

[WiseMen]

17. I am NOT Will Pitt. NOR have I met the person. Please desist this Libel

I am not sure who the libel is against. Me or that certain Pitt?

[Scott Lee]

41. Typo. I meant to say "WELL", not "Will"

[Philosophy]

6. I don't get the "temperament" issue

I mean what is he gonna do, start declaring war on other countries for no good reason?

[Gin]

11. whose elenor clift and why are you listening to a word she says?

gin

[Ardee]

23. Perhaps if you knew who she was

you'd listen also.....

[oasis]

39. Eleanor is a well informed, pugnacious voice for the left.

[Eric J in MN]

9. Great, Eleanor Clift included an anonymous smear. What class!

Eleanor Clift reports:

"This is not a guy who is temperamentally fit to be president," says an aide to a ranking Democratic senator on the Foreign Relations Committee.
------------------------------------------------------------
I report:

"Eleanor Clift is a crappy writer," a high ranking person somewhere.

[kaitykaity]

10. Buyer's remorse my *ss.

They just don't get it. Dean's a fighter, he doesn't
back down, he hits back hard and often. That's all that
matters. Bush has given him so many targets.

[HFishbine]

15. And Clark does the same damn thing -- He's a fighter too.

We're all going to be in love soon.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

18. All that matters?

I think hitting hard and often is not quite all that matters.

It's important to know what you're going to do once you've knocked the other guy out...and to have the gravitas to actually do it.

Clift isn't saying anything that isn't already being said in the "real" world.

We just have to seperate the candidates from the punditry. (is that a word?)

The press bestows, then they rescind. They all need to be taken with a large grain of salt.

[kaitykaity]

21. Welcome to DU, pam k78!!

I disagree, however. The reThugs are down and dirty
bastards, who have no respect for anyone or anything
except their own ideology.

A 'reasonable, respectful' discussion is out of the
question. The blood in the water so far has all been
Democratic. It's time for the Thugs to feel our pain.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

22. Thanks Kaity

I appreciate the welcome. :-)

I don't get here often...and get lost sometimes when I do LOL.

I agree the repukes fight dirty...they also have nothing real to offer the American public. Unless the American public only consists of the already rich and famous, that is.

Nothing wrong with fighting back, but I still don't think we can win this election based on an "I'm the angriest candidate."

And I'm beginning to wonder if Dr. Dean isn't just angry at everyone. He seems to be spending almost as much time attacking the "Washington Democrats", as he calls them as he does the administration. I think that is part of what Clift is pointing out in her piece.

I have yet to figure out what his vision is...other than throwing the bums out LOL.

[kaitykaity]

26. "Throw the bums out" works for me.

I hope you'll participate often. :hi:

I'm a Dean/Clark supporter. I like the General a whole
lot, but as the #2. I know that's looking less and less
likely, but still I have to hope.

I'm almost as angry at the Pink TuTu 'Washington
Democrats' as a am at Bush, so I guess I'm with the Doctor
on that one, too. Nobody in the Democratic establishment
connected to the anger of the base "Bush Stole the Election"
Democrats like Dean did. He saw it, he felt it, and he
marshalled it.

I don't need specifics, except to know that we stop the
Bush secrecy machine, the no-bid contracts, the unilateral
war foreign policy, the polluter-friendly EPA, the
conservowacko judicial appointments--the whole disaster
of Bush the Fascist comes to a screeching stop.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi pam k78!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[demvoter]

16. Eleanor Clift can

climb back under her rock.
Gee I am sure we all will listen to her crap. I dont think so!!:nuke:

President Howard Dean has a nice ring to it.

Especially when everyone hears about how bu$h is taking credit for something and trying to fool Americans once again by saying that his mis-leadership got libya to give up their PROGRAMS to build WMD's they were totally harmless to U.S. for a long time now, the REAL reason Khadaffi decided to concede was for sanctions to be lifted from his country and in return......O.I.L. and M.O.N.E.Y. S.T.U.P.I.D.!:mad:

Hey Clift put that in your..:puffpiece: and smoke it.

:kick: all of em in the @ss

[oasis]

19. Eleanor Clift is well respected as a spokesperson for the left. She

is a tenacious debater and is well read on the issues of the day.

[cryofan]

45. Eleanor Clift is a Faux Liberal

Anyone who would call Dean a Progressive is either lying, ignorant, or deluded.

[shance]

20. Poor guilded tower Eleanor. If she had the courage to run for president.

as a Democrat no less, instead of writing from an high rise office where she is safely and securely detached from the realities, risks, and oh yes, the truth in the world.

Of course the truth doesnt pay her salary. But thats no matter to guilded tower Eleanor...

<sigh> Yes....Eleanor Clift is on another sadistic expense paid power trip again.

She reminds me of the teacher and/or neighbors mom that everybody dislikes because shes just so mean, but will be nice when she needs to, or when the principals around.

I would love to see Eleanor Clift run, again, as a Democrat (its easier to run if youre a Republican*) for any office, heck just the dog catcher. She wont. She would rather continue to cast unwarranted, paid for character misrepresentation, than actually do something to make the world a better place.

[Ardee]

25. killing the messenger

is so common but common in an older sense of the word.

Clift is on the side of progressives everywhere, she works for a Pulitser winning paper ,represents the left on the McGlocklin (sic ) show and is speaking to what many have already noted.

If you dont like the content of an article perhaps there would be merit in detailing and explaining your distaste but simply spouting off makes little sense, no converts and leaves the question in the air.

[shance]

30. Eleanor Clift on the side of Progressives everywhere?

Did she happen to miss Vermont?

Clift writes that Howard Dean, the Democrats most successful progressive candidate running, could be, as she titles the article, Damaged Goods??

So which progressives side are you talking about that she supports?

Maybe its the Corporate Progressive side.

I believe I'll stand clear of whatever progressive side you think shes on.

Speaking of messengers and intentions, what was Eleanors agenda other than to not so gracefully stick a dagger in Americans enthusiasm and belief in a good candidate?

At the least, she is attempting to instill as much doubt and cynicism in voters and Americans at large. What kind of beneficial or even ethical writing is this?

I guess writing a fair, factually based article, instead of a gossipy, insinuated article laced with quotes from unnamed aids is more valid these days.

This is no different than the Gore character bought and paid for dishonest attacks, however it is undoubtedly the same level of pathetically disappointing journalism.

[no name no slogan]

38. WTF? DEAN? PROGRESSIVE?

Clift writes that Howard Dean, the Democrats most successful progressive candidate running, could be, as she titles the article, Damaged Goods??

Most successful? Hard to tell since we haven't cast ONE primary vote yet-- unless you count fundraising as "success". In that case, Shrub has been more successful than all nine of our candidates combined.

"Progressive candidate?" If you HONESTLY believe that Howard Dean is the "most progressive" (let alone PROGRESSIVE), then I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona you may be interesting in buying.

Howard Dean is no progressive-- he himself will readily admit to this. His record in Vermont is hardly progressive, either. He is notoriously friendly with the energy and pharma industries in Vermont, and was also quite cozy during his governorship with IBM, possibly the worst anti-union company after Wal-Mart.

Howard Dean said it best himself: "I was a triangulator well before Clinton was one". He is nothing but a "centrist", with ties to some of the most highly suspect corporations in America.

Perhaps you are confusing the Dean "movement" with other progressive movements, as it does use the language of of previous movements, and does have a tendency to project qualities and positions onto Dean that he himself does not support.

Speaking as somebody who's early political experience was helping elect Wellstone in 1990, I can most modestly assure you that Howard Dean is no progressive.

[shance]

46. One thing in common you and I probably agree on.......

is George Strait rocks.*** :)

I think (and hope) I see where you are coming from, however,

unless you have followed Dean's candidacy like I have, met him, and been involved in his campaign, as I assume you have been with Kucinich, you have not had the opportunity to see what is happening, despite what many paid for media pundits may be inclined to say.

I have witnessed a growing progression in the Dean campaign and movement. I also believe Governor Deans connections and interactions with so many Americans this past year has had a profound and lasting affect on him as both a person and a candidate. That I believe, reveals alot about someones leadership capabilities and the ability to truly shift and be open to alternative thoughts which I believe to be vital for a leader dealing with many different cultures and backgrounds.

I used to be a Republican, and I know from my own experience we do indeed change, and my perspective has been greatly altered on just about everything I used to believe as being true. It has taken some years, it has definitely been an awakening of sorts, and something I think that has made me more authentic as a human being. Meeting others from different economic backgrounds, nationalities, genders, sexual preferences has profoundly altered my outlook on life, from government policy, political persuasions, gender oppression, opportunisim, classism, capitalism, and so many things.

Governor Dean I would imagine has not moved (nearly) as far to the left as I have, but there is a quality with Dean that is noticeable if you invest in the time to truly listen and follow his actions. Its impressive and its in a way indescribable in giving it full justice. If you havent, you should hear him for yourself. Its a quest for the truth and for what is inherently right and just for all Americans.

It may sound dramatic, and yet Im beginning to think we live in a pretty dramatic time and it appears we have to exclaim things these days, versus politely and diplomatically chit chat. I have yet to see much diplomacy work effectively with many within the Republican party. Its seems pretty apparent that many of them are forcing us to move away from the wall and get in some faces.

Interesting you dont see Dean as a progressive, when he has been consistently spoken out against the invasion in Iraq, supports and promotes the useage of alternative energy and fuels, supports healthcare for all Americans, not to mention is the first Governor to support a Domestic Partnership benefit bill etc. al. Media pundits are forever accusing him of being either too liberal or too conservative. If youll forgive me, what hoop does he have to jump through to make you see Dean wants progressive change?

I, like you, admire and support Kucinich, although I dont think he is the candidate that is ready at this point to be president. I also, perhaps selfishly feel that we need people of Kucinich's stature to lead and stand tall in the House. We need a strong person in the House and I hope that he will continue to be a representative if he does not win the nomination. We need him. My fantasy is that he would become the Speaker, although Tom Delay is making our majority seem all that more elusive by his own illegal practices in Texas.

If you are a progressive and/or a Dem, then I hope you will agree we all need to work together. I will vote for whoever will be our candidate. There are two candidates that I am extremely disappointed in, but I would even resort to voting for them because I believe we are in need of a change.

[Scott Lee]

43. She's as Progressive as Rumsfeld looks good in a skirt.

I cannot believe anyone would write that.

[deutsey]

24. Yes, and Margaret Tucker said a while ago that Dean's star was fading

Why do we rely so heavily on the punditry in forming our opinions? Shouldn't it at least sometimes be the other way around?

[deutsey]

28. I meant "Margaret Carlson"...

Now, why did I think of "Tucker" instead, I wonder?

[Armstead]

27. CXlift wants her cake and be able to eat it too

She acknowledges that Dean is right, and ahe agrees the Democrats have to fight back.

But that's exactly what Dean is doing and she calls it impolitic. You can't have it both ways. If you're gonna fight back, you have to be impolitic sometimes.

[curse10]

31. kick

:kick:

since it's linked from a "dupe"

[oasis]

32. Timely kick. DUers can pause for a moment and witness how zealots

will turn on friends who dare question their quasi-orthodoxy.

[bearfartinthewoods]

33. amazing thing to watch actually

it has me wondering what will happen to the rest of us when howard gets in office.

are you now or have you ever been critical of el presidente howard brush dean the third?

[oasis]

37. Here's the saddest part. Some of these folks are alienating potential

Dean voters in an election where Democrats need to stand shoulder to shoulder.

[cryofan]

34. Dean is not a progressive

Dean is a Republicrat who has been quoted as saying he wants to shrink the welfare state.

Anyway, here are some quotes from Dean:


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Throughout the 1990s, Dean’s cuts in state aid to education ($6 million), retirement funds for teachers and state employees ($7 million), health care ($4 million), welfare programs earmarked for the aged, blind and disabled ($2 million), Medicaid benefits ($1.2 million) and more, amounted to roughly $30 million. Dean claimed that the cuts were necessary because the state had no money and was burdened by a $60 million deficit.9
....
Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[killbotfactory]

40. The public is too stupid to realize Dean is right...

Is what the arguements comes down too.

Dean can make all the reasonable arguements he wants about national security, back it up with proof and 50 years of history... but the minute Bush opens his mouth and says "I'm fighting... the war on... terror! Me good! Dean bad! Bush smash!" the public swoons and all rationality is thrown out the window.

[Scott Lee]

42. While polls show Dean still gets the majority of Dem support

so at least he's on the right side of things. Let's hope the "awareness" increases.

[White Mountain]

44. Lay off the Kool Aide Eleanor

This DINO sees her shaddow and is over the cliff.

Dean's the real deal and the one who has gravitas to oppose the Pubbies.