Dean: They're not trying to stop me, they're trying to stop YOU.

[chimpymustgo]

Inside Politics just showed a clip of Dean talking to his supporters. He said all the "attacks" on him, are not just to stop him, but to stop all the people who have come into his campaign to change America.

It had a very ominous, threatening tone. Dean needs to be careful here. The nomination is not his divine right. And he should not sow even more seeds of divisiveness in the party.

And he really needs to get some rest. He seems to need it physically and emotionally.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. More obnoxious presumption from the campaign

Insulting and obnoxious.

[dave29]

8. obnoxious presumption

umm, do you guys not take it personally when your candidate is "attacked"?

Just wondering, because there are a few posts from you that would indicate that is the case.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. Yes. to say it is also an attack on his supporters is a false premise

for example, John Kerry has stood proudly and strongly for gay rights since he returned from Vietnam. To suggest that a Kerry supporter is trying to prevent a gay Dean supporter from having their issues represented is false.
Yes. I am trying to stop Dean. NO, I am not trying to stop his supporters (unless their one and only goal it to elect Howard Dean.)

This is a false arguement by Dean.

[Walt Starr]

51. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[stickdog]

84. Bullshit. The establishment doesn't fear Dean. It fears an awakened

electorate.

[Fleshdancer]

97. We HAVE been attacked!

Remember the whole "latte drinking, body piercing freak-show" thing? That was attacking us, the supporters.

The Newsweek article that took 3 quotes from the blog out of context by Dean supporters? Yep...didn't feel that great for the supporters.

Or how about the MTP exchange last Sunday? Making the statement that all Dean supporters are "female, small, and gay" and insinuating that Gephardt supporters could hurt us because they're big, union guys? That was insulting to supporters of BOTH Dean and Gephardt.

We're stereotyped constantly as too young, too naive, too "internet" (as if the internet is somehow a bad thing), too liberal, Republican operatives, kool-aid drinkers...we endure this crap from Democrats and Republicans so yes, pardon me if we take it all a little personal.

[markus]

43. Uh, you must be new here

or at least have been avoiding the 2004 forum for the last 560 or so of your last 569 posts.

Everyone here takes it very personally.

This forum is turning into the place where people vent their frustrations at what happens in the news cycle or in their own local election world or what have you.

[dave29]

85. yes, I'm well aware

some people are just exceptionally snarky about it ;)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. Obnoxious presumption?

From Kerry supporter(s)?

[Walt Starr]

Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[janx]

24. Hey, I've heard that before!

B-)

[flpoljunkie]

32. Dean has today taken to calling his opponents "frontrunners".

Try to get back that 'ol take back America feelin'.

[Walt Starr]

58. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

76. Trying to portray himself as something other than what he is

:eyes:

[BootinUp]

122. Only CNN can annoint the "frontrunner"

nice try by Dean though. :)

[Padraig18]

2. It was GREAT!

That's EXACTLY what's going on. Once again, Dean tells it like it is and the other campaigns whine.

[Walt Starr]

4. Yup, Party Power elitists biggest fear is

empowered people.

[chimpymustgo]

15. Edwards, Clark, Kerry and Kucinich supporters are pretty empowered.

They're not threatening the party to pack up their toys and go home if their guys don't win.

And Dean really needs to cut this out. Maybe McCauliffe SHOULD step in, and tell Dean a thing or two.

[Walt Starr]

20. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[janx]

33. Hey, I've heard that before!

B-)

But no one threatened anything of the kind.

[stickdog]

87. Looking at the percentage of Edwards & Kerry supporters who have

donated the $2000 maximum, it's pretty obvious that they were ALREADY empowered.

[Eloriel]

109. Oh? Just exactly how are they empowered?

THIS I want to hear all about.

Please -- tell all.

Eloriel

[jmaier]

17. Padraig, a question please?

Are those of us not in favor of nominating Dean also engaged in some conspiracy to "silence We the people" as I've heard claimed from Dean supporters many times? When you look at the number of Democratic insider endorsements that Gov Dean has garnered, coupled with his record as Governor (which I generally like btw), it's pretty hard to really see a majority populist sentiment here.

At the end of the day, a minority of Democrats seem to support Gov Dean and YES, this is true of all the candidates, so it's pretty hard to fathom that those not voting for him are in some covert conspiracy to end this movement. I suspect folks are pretty much voting their interests, opinions, prejudices, etc. like they do every election. Or am I really missing something here?

[Padraig18]

23. you're reading too much into it.

There's really no 'hidden subtext' in what he said. He said that the other campaigns are trying to silence (defeat) the Dean campaign. it was a literal statement.

[jmaier]

26. Well,

if that is the case, then I can only say 'duh'. LOL

Of course the other campaigns are trying to win but that doesn't seem to be what has been implied ... many, many times.

Ain't these campaigns grand! :-)

[mouse7]

119. Actually, look at Al From, Newt tribute, and the media

"Conventional Wisdom" says that the DLC runs the Democratic Party. Al From, the head of the DLC was just on CSPAN for hours Sat. night giving a tribute to Newt Gingrich.

Now, anyone who is to the left of Atilla the Hun is going to feel like a supposed major Democratic party leader has abandoned them.

Now look at the news media. Blatent lies. Day after day ater day of it. It's real easy for people to feel like there is "some group" behind the scenes comtrolling the political messages that are communicated. Issue poll after issue poll shows that people are very progressive on issues, we have full GOP control, and their image of traditional Democrats is Lieberman, Daschle, Gephardt, and Alan Combes.

The "typical" Dean supporter feels like someone is finally speaking for their frustration of being left out of the political process. It isn't about supposed Dean anger. It IS about Dean giving people a voice and vote in the political process again. They feel left out. They see people like Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards, and Gephardt not willing to find a way to stop a war that is based on no evidence or threat. They see no investigation happening on 9/11. They see people like Kerry more intereted in attacking Dean than attacking Bush.

Yeah, they feel left out, and if a future party nominee walks over the carcass of a brutally attacked Dean to get to the nomination, they will not be in the process come November. The kerry they see is one that wants to attack Dean, not Bush.

[caledesi]

25. Totally agree Pad.....this is Dean unplugged. nt

[Cheswick2.0]

57. yup

I guess in other campaigns the people "supporting" their candidate don't value their time or effort? :shrug:

[cthrumatrix]

101. ding ding ding-- a nightmare to rove

[Walt Starr]

3. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. What About Dean's Attacks? What About Clark, Who Hasn't Attacked?

I'm so done with Howard Dean.

DTH

[Bombtrack]

6. He also said in his speech that he wanted them to make him president on

the 19th.

I really can't stand him

[Walt Starr]

9. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[mzmolly]

18. Me too.

B-) ;)

[Padraig18]

Really?

we'd never noticed that before, Bombtrack. :P

[NV1962]

7. Nah... I think he's consistent there

I think it dovetails nicely and consistently with the Howard Dean campaign's "you have the power" message.

Like him (or that slogan / approach) or not, I don't see an inconsistency or a problem there.

As to the "tone" - well, he hasn't exactly been hiding his emotion(s) as part of his delivery, has he. So I see no problem there, either.

[Lisa0825]

113. Thanks, NV1962. You get it! there's nothing sinister about it.

It's just a part of the theme of us being empowered and it being about us, not him.

[Hep]

11. Dean's right.

They're trying to stop us. At DU, in the media, on the RW. All trying to stop US.

Take note.

[Clark Can WIN]

34. Boo!

:tinfoilhat: All this time I thought I was "the people".

[Walt Starr]

37. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[Cheswick2.0]

60. me too

:7

[CMT]

12. He is right

The insiders are out to stop him so one of their own is nominated. I see nothing wrong with what he said. Frankly, it isn't much different from campaign rhetoric I've heard many candidates make in the past.

[TheDonkey]

13. I hate when Dean goes cultish

this was why i began to not support him awhile ago. Then he dropped the holy art thou talk and I began to warm up to him. Now it seems he's going back to the "I'm not an insider, THEY are, THEY want to kill us" talk. Truth is Dean is an insider god or bad is what he needs to discuss.

[Walt Starr]

21. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[bearfartinthewoods]

66. more of the with us or against us shit

more and more like bush every day

[stickdog]

88. I hate it when insiders try to crush populist movements. (nt)

[mzmolly]

14. Still undecided Chimpy?

B-)

[dajabr]

16. Dean's YOU won't let it happen...

[w4rma]

77. Weeble Wobble!

I just felt like saying that. I like that word. :P

[Clark Can WIN]

82. full of stale air

apt.

[Rose Siding]

19. He's exactly right

Establishment Dems don't want a bottom up campaign to succeed, but don't you know they wish they'd had the heart to run one.

When I read of your sincere concern for his physical and emotional health, I was reminded of an infuriatingly transparent article that came up a few days ago on Google:

Conservative Leader Calls Dean Too 'Mentally Unstable' to Be President

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2004/january/0101_dean_mentally_unstable.shtml

[kerry-is-my-prez]

92. There's a ton of articles like that on Dean - better get used to it....

n/t

[cally]

22. I guess Dems aren't allowed to criticize the annointed one

I guess other Dems need to bow down to his superiority. Dean is just pissing off other Dems. He may be ahead, but he does not have a majority of Dems in any poll. He is a minority candidate that is winning because of a crowded field. I don't think he would be ahead with a two person field.

[Padraig18]

27. Oddly enough...

... in the last CNN/USA Today poll, in hypothetical head-to-head with each of the other candidates, he still won, with Clark being the only one to hold him to under 50%...

[janx]

31. "annointed one" ?

What on earth does that mean?

[cally]

74. Dean and all the supporters

who have told others to get with him or be quiet. Whining to MacAuliffe about attacks when Dean constantly attacks. Basically Dean said it was time to unify around him before a vote was cast. Dean may very well end up the nominee, but he will have to work hard to unify this party.

[janx]

104. Please tell me--give me a link or a reference--about all of the

Dean supporters who have told anyone to "get with him or be quiet."

Thanks.

[dave29]

86. I think it's a buffy

the vampire slayer reference

[cindyw]

28. I was just about to start a topic on this. Can a Dean supporter

explain to me who "us" is defined in Dean's statement, "they are trying to stop us".

I always thought that I belonged to "us" even if I didn't support Dean.

Note to Dean, some of "Us" are trying to stop you" in favor of our preferred candidate. Join the party sir. "We" are trying to stop BUSH. It's not all about you and your supporters.". It is about ALL of US against BUSH. Now stop trashing me for not supporting you.

[Walt Starr]

36. Dean's campaign is people powered

And he's 100% correct. The Party Elite is out to stop tuhe single largest grass roots movement in the Democratic Party's history, IMO.

[bearfartinthewoods]

105. i am not party elite and i'm out to stop dean

[cindyw]

108. I'm not party elite either and I don't want him to be president

mostly because he talks in a way that is very exclusionary. I don't like it in Bush and I don't like it in Dean, His campaign reminds me more of those seminars where they teach you to sell more seminars on how to be a millionaire.

He talks of the middle class and he wants to hurt my family by raising our taxes. I am fighting for my family and the great history of my party. Not for some non-existant party elite. There a whole lot of people like me. We just support all the other candidates. Combine all of us and our more similar candidates and we number more than the Dean campaign.

[helleborient]

54. DK is the only other candidate who really seems to support the freedom

And empowerment of everyday people to work in politics for a larger purpose.

Some of the other campaigns have followed the example of grassroots set by Dean as pale shadows...but who else is supporting grassroots letter writing giving people a way to be part of the campaign if all they can afford is a postage stamp, envelope, and paper?

[stickdog]

89. Dean's talking about the incessant bullshit attacks & low blows.

Support whomever you wish.

[Clark Can WIN]

29. He also said "WE are stronger than THEY are" speaking of other Democrats

He's the most devisive figure since the chimp.

[janx]

55. Link, please?

?

[stickdog]

90. No. He was talking about PEOPLE vs. the establishment, both Dem & Repuke.

[chimpymustgo]

102. No. Dean was rallying his troops against other Democrats.

The ones who are questioning his lies and flip-flops and stupid statements. The Democrats who might support Edwards or Clark or Kerry or Gephardt. THEM.

[slinkerwink]

35. haha, this is funny!

you thought it was ominous? You've been missing the point for many months now----Dean supporters see any attacks on Dean as an attack on them, and we've been attacked for many months now. The other campaigns are trying to undermine our grassroots support for Dean---that IS trying to stop us through Dean!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. "trying to stop you through Dean"

now that's funny. But it's also actually a little more troubling because it indicates a Dean or nobody attitude. Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, and Clark will represent Dean supporters' interests just as well as Dean could.

[rucky]

38. Meanwhile, outside of GD:2004

Is it possible that he's not talking about OUR attacks?

I'd like to see the context of this paraphrase of a quote from a clip.

[janx]

53. When he says this, he's normally talking about Chimpy & Co.

.

[maddezmom]

59. well if you get CSPAN tune in right now 5:00 est

he'll say it soom.

[DancingBear]

40. This is crazy

but I actually agree with something Limbaugh said. <ugh>

Caught a brief 30 seconds of him while trying to figure out how to set the radio in the new truck, and amazingly enough it dovetails into this discussion.

Paraphrasing, he said that as long as Dean continues to be angry his supporters will not waver, and that the angrier and more us vs. them he gets the better they like it.

Well, here is a classic us vs. them speech which, viewed in the context of us (Dean) vs. them (all other candidates). The Dean base goes wild, while the other candidate supporters (the "not real" Democrats, if you will) find it patronizing and offensive.

Question: Why? I do not see this sort of polarizing behavior towards any other candidate from non-Dean supporters. I look at the rest of the field and see candidates whose positions I agree with (in some cases) and disagree with (in some cases), but I do not get the visceral reaction of unpleasantness that I get from Dean. Has nothing to do with poll standing, either.

This is polarizing behavior from Dean in the worst sense - and please do not brush this off with "that's just Dean." Rubbish. Every bit of what he says in this type of stump speech is designed. Why do Dean supporters feel this is the way to win an election? I can understand the primary component, but do you really think this works outside the motivated base?

BTW, the "motivated base", as in all elections, is a finite %, usually about 30% or so of primary voters, which extrapolates to about 8-9% in the GE. Where do the rest come from?

[Walt Starr]

42. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[DancingBear]

47. Let me guess

this has replaced "poop" as the newest Dean phrase du jour?

Fascinating.

Stupid, but fascinating.

[janx]

52. Well, when the Clark sources of the day are Fox and Limbaugh...

n/t

[DancingBear]

61. Gee, why did I know this was coming

See, if the source was instead Carville or Begala, they would be "media whores." If it was another candidate, they would be "desperate and grasping at straws." If it was another politician who hadn't endorsed Dean, he/she would be "DNC", or "DLC", or RCA, or TNT, or IBM.

This is why those "cult-like" comments that so offend you are beginning to be taken seriously by others outside your camp.

BTW, thanks for addressing my post in such depth.

[janx]

67. You're welcome!

B-)

[Walt Starr]

63. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

ROFL

Ya gotta be a pretty straight up Dean supporter in order to get it, and most here still won't get it.

B-)

[DancingBear]

69. Yes, I'm sure you do

Probably way too highbrow for us common folk.

ah yep, yep, yep.

[Walt Starr]

70. Noe, not highbrow at all

You just have to be in with the cool kids.

LOL

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

103. They became disenchanted with POOP when someone asked

if it stood for "Please Offer Only Praise."

[NewYorkerfromMass]

45. Yep. He's on a polarizing populist kick

and it's getting real tired.

[janx]

41. "Ask not at whom the Chimp smirks--

He smirks at YOU."


Don't forget it. Dean's not forgetting it.

[bain_sidhe]

44. He's been using this line a while

And it's bothered me before too. Not the "theatening tone" - I think he sees it as rhetoric. But it invites his supporters to see every aspect of other campaign's examination of him and his record as a personal attack on *them*. Politicians, and professional campaigners (for the most part), know it's not personal, it's just politics. Individual supporters don't have that thick skin, and so we see supporters responding to an attack on their candidate as an attack on them. Dean's line *encourages* that, and, I think, could have a heavy cost come the general election, if Dean is NOT the nominee.

I mean, how do they NOT still "have the power" if Dean isn't the standard bearer. They ALWAYS had the power, and still will. I commend Dean for reminding his supporters that the people have the power to take their country back, but THEY ALWAYS DID. Dean didn't give them that power, the Constitution does. To encourage a view that defeating Dean in the primaries some how takes that power away is both cynical and divisive. IMHO

[helleborient]

50. Dean's campaign is not the same as other campaigns...

No other campaign comes close to motivating the sheer number of people around the country and around the world to work and contribute money to win the nomination and get rid of Bush that Howard Dean has. No campaign disputes this...no one in Iowa does either. Howard Dean simply has inspired more people from elsewhere in the country to go to Iowa than anywhere else.

One of the biggest fears I and the 4 other people who went with me to Iowa to work for Dean this weekend have...is that if Howard Dean wins...we will not necessarily again get a candidate who gives us the freedom and encouragement to be involved and do real work that Howard Dean's candidacy has given us.

The top-down high control model of Clinton's campaigns left many of us with nothing to do until the campaign rolled into our state for the short period before a primary...and then we could only do what the central coordinated campaign told us to do.

Howard Dean's campaign is the antithesis of that.

[library_max]

81. Hunh. And Clinton won twice.

Sure hope Howard Dean's campaign isn't the antithesis of that.

[stickdog]

91. That's all you got. FEAR. Just like the Repuke fear mongers. (nt)

[library_max]

121. Call off the dogs.

I'm not anti-Dean. Might very well vote for him in the primaries, in fact. I just don't like the Clinton-bashing.

[neverforget]

46. Dean is just digging himself a hole. All this "straight talk" that his

supporters love turns off those who don't support him.

[bearfartinthewoods]

78. scares is my choice of words

having some little experience with orgs that chant and clap and paint the world as us vrs them.

[stickdog]

93. So, are you going to vote Bush or just stay home? (nt)

[helleborient]

48. Why I agree with Howard Dean's comment....

The MOST valuable part of Howard Dean's campaign to many of us...even more important than Dean as the candidate to some of us...is that the campaign process he and Trippi have put together genuinely appealing to the grassroots, encouraging people everywhere in the country to get involved in the campaign very early on, and telling us we really do have power to change the government...is under threat when Howard Dean is attacked.

Once in a while I do hear someone say that Howard Dean has done a great job at putting the campaign together, but they disagree with him as the candidate. That has usually come from pundits in large publications.

I don't have confidence that any of the other candidates have demonstrated a real support for real grassroots campaigns, except Dennis Kucinich...campaign funding for each of the other leading candidates begins to tell the story - they are much more strongly funded by $2,000 campaign contributors than Dean is.

So I feel that when a candidate using money politics and old-line politics attacks Howard Dean...it is an attack on us, too...because they will be quick to point out Dean's way of campaigning is a failure in order to protect the entrenched world of operatives, special interests, and money.

[worldgonekrazy]

49. You are wrong, Dean is right

The Washington establishment is frightened by the possibility of a Dean presidency. Why? Because he is beholden to nobody but the people and as such he might be inclined to do A LOT of house cleaning.

I wish everyone would see this. The Primary battle, IMO, will come down to a choice between the old establishment for the corporations (as represented by Clark, Kerry, etc.) or a new way for the people (Dean or Kucinich).

[ClarkGraham2004]

107. Why? BECAUSE HE WILL LOSE HORRIBLY.

[stickdog]

112. Yes. Keep using fear to intimidate.

Remind you of anyone else you know?

[Cheswick2.0]

56. Hey, I've heard that before

B-)

[sandnsea]

62. Does Dean support my right to want him stopped???

I'm a Democrat. What about me? What about my right to take the party in the direction I think it ought to go? Nobody is trying to stop anybody from doing anything, except Howard Dean. He's the one that thinks everybody else ought to shut up and just fall in line behind him. Well I'm not going to do that. I still care about the same Democratic values I've cared about all my life. Not Howard Dean, or anybody else, is going to change that without a fight.

[rucky]

65. It's possible he wasn't talking about you?

What if he's referring to Rove's attacks?

Does anybody even know what he was referring to?


Guess the jury's already out on it, tho.

[oasis]

64. I've heard this before "I'm taking my bat and ball and going home"

Let's read between the lines here. Is Dean really saying "They're not attacking me, they're attacking you".

When the martyred Democrats go down in flames I'll nominate Dean for sainthood.

[KittyWampus]

68. Dean Also Says This Isn't About HIM It's About "US"

I also find this profoundly disturbing. This is a representative Democracy and it most certainly IS about the individual candidates and their records and capabilities or lack thereof.

I also find Dean chanting "You Have The Power" somewhat disturbing as it can imply that without him, we do not or that he can bestow it upon us.

It's been said that Dean's Campaign taps into an almost Cult-like atmosphere or mentality. There is some truth to that. I absolutely mean NO DISRESPECT. This is an observation I have made and which others have also. It is related to the extent Dean's campaign is called a Movement- yet very little is said about his Policies or his actual Record.

[janx]

71. Wait--you're calling the Dean campaign a cult and then

advising us about astrology?

Where have I heard that kind of thing before?

[KittyWampus]

72. I Removed The Reference To Astrology Before You Responded

I study Kabbalah and not mundane astrology.

Kabbalah has informed both Carl Jung and Emmanuel Kant... so it is NOT a cult.

[janx]

75. But you referred to it as astrology in your post.

So I guess that's where the obvious misunderstanding came from. By the way, it's nothing to be embarrassed about. A lot of people are into that kind of thing--numerology, too. B-)

[Walt Starr]

80. I wouldn't say that

But to each their own.

[stickdog]

94. Christianity is far more cult-like. Wouldn't you agree? (nt)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

95. Cults feature a strong leader who is admired with a fervent devoti

http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/nov_2000/cult_beh.htm

Cults usually feature a strong leader who is admired with a fervent devotion. People will follow him... and on rare occasions, her... anywhere. I've seen that happen in Christian denominations on more than one occasion -- when the minister would switch churches a large section of the congregation would follow him.

-snip-

Cults claim exclusive access.... They're the only ones who have it all down right.....


Yep sounds about right....

[stickdog]

110. You mean like Ghandi or Jesus or JFK or FDR?

Dean supporters are devoted to Dean because he listened to us and then started speaking for us.

When he stops speaking for us is when we stop following him.

The fact that your candidate doesn't have any strong supporters doesn't make him a better candidate.

[indigo32]

96. Having been quite involved in the Dean campaign since

May... I can tell you there is NOTHING CULTLIKE in it.
People can keep saying it to make us look bad... but it simply isn't the case. I've been involved in campaigns before... the difference here is everyone is encouraged to throw their ideas into the mix. Plus we're raising a boatload of money.

[isbister]

79. Misleader

[stickdog]

83. Dean's right. They don't give a damn about Dean. Their problem with Dean

is the activist nature of his campaign.

People who actually still BELIEVE in democracy are the problem. Dean has given us a voice, and the entire establishment is scared shitless.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

98. We're scared of getting Bush in for 4 more years. And of Dean's record.

n/t

[DancingBear]

99. The activist nature of said campaign

will cause us to lose 40 states. That, indeed, scares us shitless.

And please stop this insulting talk that no one other than Dean supporters "believe in democracy". It is that type of talk that turns us off to your savior.

[stickdog]

111. So your argument is that if we stand up for ourselves, we'll lose

for sure? That if we really fight for what we believe in, we'll have no chance to win? Isn't that EXACTLY what the Repuke's want us to think as well?


You said: And please stop this insulting talk that no one other than Dean supporters "believe in democracy".


Please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely resembling that.

Quick logic lesson:

If I say that Dean's supporters believe in democracy, this does not in any way imply that anyone who isn't a Dean supporter does not. OK?

[Lobo_13]

100. It was a literal truth

Negative campaigning is designed solely to discourage voter participation.

[ClarkGraham2004]

106. Dean creeps me out.

[hellhathnofury]

115. Clark scares children.

[stickdog]

116. Clark has cooties.

[hellhathnofury]

114. They are. This is a grassroots movement, Dean is just part of it.

[slinkerwink]

117. and that's what people still don't understand!

[hellhathnofury]

118. I think we have to start doing a better job of presenting our message.

1. We've been beaten badly during term I.

2. Howard Dean is a fighter with a strong record.

3. Howard Dean will restore this nation to the greatness that it expierence under FDR,HST and WJC.

4. Howard Dean can beat Bush because he's running the greatest grassroots campaign in American history.

[sangh0]

123. So let me see if I've got this straight

Dean and his supporters have to do a better job presenting their message because Dean is leading the "greatest grass-roots campaign in American history" that "people" don't understand?

[quaker bill]

120. He is correct of course

More than a quarter of a million of us have contributed to this effort just last year.

A much larger number have invested in the campaign on one form or another.

This is the group that he is referring to and I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly.