The Republicans have won the post-debate spin battle

[geek tragedy]

The media are not discussing anything but Mary Cheney. Nobody is talking about Bush's Whopper Deluxe about not caring about bin Forgotten. Nobody is talking about Kerry's three wins. Or anything of substance discussed in the debates.

In retrospect, that remark was a blunder.

The truth is on our side on this, even according to the Log Cabin Republicans.

But, truth does not determine spin.

There is no good answer for us when the media is doing nothing but asking "Did John Kerry go to far?"

It's damage control time, and that needs to be acknowledged. Some staffer should "confess" advising the Senator to make such well-intentioned remarks, and jump overboard.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Bull

if it hadn't been the cheney thing, they would have found something else. And the media is so cowed they would have gone along with it. No way would they let the sheeple know that Bush lied.

[geek tragedy]

7. The Dems won the spin battle for the first three debates.

This is different. This is juicy stuff that the media whores are bathing in.

Mary Cheney is THE story of the third debate.

It's no longer a question of whether it was a mistake to mention her, but rather how big a mistake it was.

[ClassWarrior]

11. By that train of logic, it was a mistake for JK to even show up.

ALLLL IS LOSSSTTTTTT... GIVE UPPPPPPP!! <sarcasm off>

Take it somewhere else.

24.

[geek tragedy]

16. No, I'm just saying that this one remark has been inflated.

Kerry DESTROYED the Shrub on virtually every other question of the debate.

That should be the story. Had he not made the remark, it would be.

The appropriate response is a sensational counterattack on Bush's record--not playing defense on this.

[ClassWarrior]

23. My point is, you called it "a mistake" to mention it.

What was the mistake? Bringing up the truth? Saying something the Cheneys have said all along? Is the fact that the remark has been inflated the mistake? If so, that's not Kerry's mistake.

What EXACTLY are you trying to say?

24.

[geek tragedy]

26. It was a tactical error.

Let's put it this way:

If Kerry had not mentioned it, the spin would be wildly pro-Kerry, as the media whores love kicking pols when they're down--and Bush was down.

To be certain, this outrage is both phony and more outrageous than the actual remark.

This has been blown up out of proportion, but someone should have anticipated this possibility.

[ClassWarrior]

32. The spin would have been "wildly pro-Kerry??!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

What country have you been living in for the past four years?? Has your TV been in the shop for all that time??

Face it, if Kerry had not mentioned it, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING ELSE. It's the 11th hour and the Bush Crime Family is starting to lose its grip on power. They're getting desperate.

We knew it was going to get ugly. We just need to have the intestinal fortitude and get out and CAMPAIGN. Which was my original point. QUIT WORRYING ABOUT THE WHORE GAMES - GET OUT AND KNOCK ON SOME DOORS.

24.

[sniffa]

2. then we need to pick up the pace

fLood the airwaves and taLk about bush.

this is about him, not kerry. kerry hasn't provided over a faiLed administration.

[geek tragedy]

10. Exactly. We need to change the subject.

Let's talk about the "myth" of lost jobs, the bin Forgotten lie/remarks, etc etc.

Dems should talk about anything BUT this.

[ClassWarrior]

17. The press is way ahead of you...

They've already turned to Bill O'Leilly's filthy mind. You know, Dubya's good buddy Bill O'Leilly?...

24.

[Touchdown]

3. They didn't win. We're in mid-spin battle.

If all they talk about is Mary Cheney next Wednesday, then you can say they won.

[randr]

4. It is up to the Kerry people to put the proper spin

on the B* whopper. The Dems just don't have the same unity of purpose when they need to direct the spin. Maybe they all need to be wired like the repugs seem to be.

[fugop]

5. where?

I haven't really noticed overwhelming coverage of it, although it's certainly out there as part of the debate package. Last night when I was watching the cable networks, they covered it, but it didn't seem to be the sole focus. In fact, they ran the Log Cabin Republican statement, which chastised both sides, and MSNBC (via Hardball) also ran the Osama screwup. And today the Washington Post just had it as a sidebar in the back to a bigger story on how the cartoon of Kerry failed to show up at the debate, thus helping to lift his image.

Is it really overwhelming coverage for the average viewer, or just for the news junkies among us who watch everything? Just wondering, since I watch some of the cable news, but I certainly don't watch a lot of it. I get more off the paper and the internet.

[geek tragedy]

12. National talk shows (including broadcast)

WaPo, NYT, LA Times all running stories.

[AmerDem]

6. your kidding right?

get a grip and open your eyes!

[ClassWarrior]

8. Yeah, the press is enjoying one last circle jerk...

...and meanwhile we're winning!! Rather than making unrealistic demands about sacrificing a staffer that nobody who will make a difference will ever see, why don't you get out and knock on some doors for Kerry? This election will be won on America's doorsteps - not in Bill Hemmer's lap.

24.

[Rambis]

9. 3 shows in Iowa

No one mentioned it at all. They talked to voters and that is not an issue anyone brought up. They asked the people what is the most important issue and it was the ecomony and jobs. Kerry in a landslide!

[demokatgurrl]

20. Clear evidence that the "media" are out of touch-

what the media care about: ratings, sensationalism, gossip, sleaze, mudslinging, character assassination.

what the voters care about: jobs, health care, peace, trade, deficits, environment

[Insomnicole]

36. I absolutely love that picture in your sig.

Where'd you get it?

[Lilli]

13. Not sure I agree

I see the media running with the piece, but - in most cases - pointing out that its much ado about nothing.

Seems more about sound bite ratings grabbing to me.

[fugop]

25. My experience as well

Phew. Good, I'm not crazy then. My own observations of the media have been that they report the "controversy" (and they have to, since that's all Bush-Cheney had to bitch about in the debate), but then they report the other side. Would I rather the coverage be all about Kerry's sweep? Yes. Did I expect it would be? Freakin' no. Then MSNBC would have to change their Horserace logo.

In a way, I'm glad about the Mary Cheney thing because it's such a dumb controversy. I would have been much more upset had KErry made any big factual errors, because I think the press would have killed him for it.

[HuckleB]

14. Huh?

I'm not sure where your getting this from.

[DemocracyInaction]

15. You know how to stop this, John???

All Kerry has to do is make new headlines with something said on the campaign trail. Tell the people that Bush is a pathological liar or something and then that will get picked up 24/7. Or have Edwards do a strip tease act----now that would be worth the price of admission!!!!

[geek tragedy]

21. Not sure about the JEdwards strip tease, but

I agree.

Time to change the subject. Because Kerry wins on any other subject.

Having Dick Cheney and Lynne Cheney getting to hypocritically play the wounded parent in soundbytes makes me want to puke.

[Nevernose]

18. I'm starting to agree with you

I'm seeing Mary Cheney's name quite a bit this morning. Quite a bit more discussion of Kerry's reference to her than anything substantive, in fact.

There's a difference between who actually won the debate and who the media says won it. Right now, it looks like they're beginning to say that Kerry lost it because he said the word "lesbian."

[Cats Against Frist]

19. I looked at my little boy sleeping this morning

and started crying, because with all there is at stake in this election, the GOP is manufacturing indignation over an innocent comment, because their frontman is a bumbling Neanderthal, their policies have failed, and they're scared of what happens when the Dems get control.

This is outrageous, and the media should NOT be running this story today. ALL democrats need to stop defending Kerry, and let it drop. After dems have stopped responding, nothing will be left but the hollow cry of the GOP, and it will sound as o-so-shrill and manufactured as it is.

The GOP needs to rot in hell for everything that they've done during their 4-year reign and their susbsequent smear campaign against John Kerry. For this to be an issue when little kids are dying in Iraq, terrorism is more likely, thanks to the GOP dropping the ball, and everything in the USA going to shit, is a disgrace of the highest magnitude.

Everything the GOP puts out is spun, manufactured, fabricated -- hell, they OUTRIGHT LIE. I read factcheck.org -- and they're still running ads in Iowa trying to scare people that Kerry's health care plan is "big government." This has been proven to be wrong.

If they're not afraid to lie, unabashedly, to the American people, why would anyone doubt that two parents would use their daughter for political gain? The GOP is shameless.

And THAT should be the top story, everyday.

[MsTryska]

22. I think Kerry should make a public statement.....

apologizing for any offense taken by the Cheney Family, and stating that he meant no harm, he was jsut trying to put a personal face on the issue and show how one of the leaders of our country and his family are able to bypass any stigma, and accept their daughter for who she is. He was trying to show the Cheney's as a shining example of acceptance, not air "dirty laundry" as it's been perceived by others.



i think it would bust the bubble of indignation right quick.

[tuvor]

24. Damage Control: Before you make Kerry eat it,

Pound away on Alan Keyes' comment.

Remember? Where was Lynne Cheney when he said her daughter was practicing "selfish hedonism"?

I'm tired of the good guys always bending over. And this is NOT the time to continue.

[geek tragedy]

28. We don't win by comparing ourselves to Alan Keyes.

Pound on jobs and Snow's "myth" comment.

Pound on Bush's Osama bin Forgotten video.

Pound on the situation in Iraq.

[moondust]

27. Ease up on the panic-stricken thread titles.

Thanks.

[geek tragedy]

29. This ain't panic.

I still think Kerry is going to win with 51% of the vote and 300 EV's.

But, we have to recognize that a war has ebbs and flows, and we have to be able to recognize when an issue or topic is doing much more harm than good to us.

[DefenseLawyer]

33. Relax about Mary

This story will have come and gone probably in todays news cycle, it has no legs, and I'm sure it's a non-issue except among political junkies. The wedge it creates in the republican party between the 700 clubbers and the country clubbers is why the thugs were so aggressive on it to begin with. It hurts them, not us.

[Carni]

38. EXACTLY! BINGO!

"The wedge it creates in the republican party between the 700 clubbers and the country clubbers is why the thugs were so aggressive on it to begin with. It hurts them, not us."

Why the hell do you guys freaking out about this think that BOTH Edwards and Kerry did it?

This "Mary Cheney" thing hurts the Bush campaign not Kerry

[SeanQ]

30. On that one narrow point I agree.

Everyone seems to acknowledge that Kerry won the debate overall. But the comment was a mistake. Not because there was anything inherently wrong with it, but because it gave the RW & media a hook they could use instead of B* major gaff or real analysis. He could have accomplished the same thing by just saying he believes it's how people are, not a choice. Most people, including the Cheney's understand that, even if they are not quite comfortable about it.

[demokatgurrl]

31. Exactly- it was not a WRONG thing to say but unnecessary. n/t

[librechik]

34. why did you think it would be any different? The media is the enemy

now. Get used to it. They're not on our side when the chips are down. They were just toying with us for the last few weeks because they were bored and they wanted to shore up their sagging credibility when it wouldn't cost them anything.

Now it's down to the wire, they will show their true colors.

[depakid]

35. Grow up

What did you expect? Substantive discussion of the issues? An expose on Bush's numerous lies?

Please. Spare DU the shallow doomsaying. Some of us have seen all this too many times before... You may be falling into this trap- but that doesn't mean everyone else has to- or will.

[Carni]

37. Let em talk about it! Now all the fundies know Cheney has a gay kid!!

Maybe they'll just stay home on November 2--

I only wish that someone would also bring up Lynne's book chaulked full of Lesbian scenes!