Christian Science Monitor: Dean a "Phony Liberal"

[wyldwolf]

he's a phony liberal: running for president as a left-wing firebrand, he governed Vermont as a cautious centrist.

In his own transition from governor to White House aspirant, Howard Dean has undergone an equally stark - or, if you prefer, slick - ideological rebirth. When Dean entered the Vermont State House in 1991, inheriting a budget deficit, he immediately endorsed his GOP predecessor's plan for cuts in social spending. He also enlisted Republican businessmen as economic advisers, sparking charges of apostasy from within his party. ("At least he's our Republican," one local Democrat quipped.)

Nor did Dean take the lead in Vermont's most important liberal initiatives of the 1990s - a share-the-wealth school-funding plan and a "civil unions" bill for gays. Instead, he waited to see which way the wind would blow. When the civil-unions issue was before the Vermont Supreme Court, Dean refused to discuss it; when the court threw the matter to the state legislature, he said he was "uncomfortable" with same-sex marriage; and when lawmakers finally passed a civil-unions measure, he signed it behind closed doors.



http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0114/p09s02-coop.html

[corporatewhore]

1. Well Duh !!!!!!

[cindyw]

2. Just another reason to support someone other than Dean.

I can take someone who is not prefect, I can take someone who was previously non-partisan. What I cannot take is someone who lies about who they are and who they have been.

[rogerashton]

5. Maybe he's learning, not lying.

n/t

[cindyw]

14. Then he needs to show some humility in that learning curve.

n/t

[BootinUp]

6. Wise words

Hardly anyone expresses that opinion, but I feel exactly like you.

[robbedvoter]

3. At least he's candid about it (sorta)

From the maher Show:
Maher: I want to read you a quote,
because Howard Dean said "...In Vermont, you know, politics is much
farther to the left. A Vermont centrist is an American liberal right
now." And then his campaign manager came out and said "That's not an
admission he's a liberal!"

[Upfront]

4. Next President Howard Dean

is a liberal. Could do worse, could have a phony Democrat like Clark.

[Dookus]

7. He's not just a real Democrat...

he's a LIBERAL Democrat and doesn't run from the label.

[blm]

16. This liberal Kerry supporter sez Clark MUCH more liberal than Dean.

Clark will stand up when it's UNPOPULAR to stand up and advocate for liberal values.

Clark backed up Kerry on allowing gays to serve openly in the military in the early 90s. Few would do that.

I'm satisfied that Clark is aligning with Kerry on almost every issue. That's progressive choice.

[GreenArrow]

26. they'll make a winning ticket

Dean's gonna flame out, and these two will fill in.

[AP]

37. I agree. Clark does talk a way more liberal talk than Dean talks and walks

Taxes and race and middle class opportunity -- Dean is to right of Clark. I welcome evidence to the contrary re Clark, but I know exactly where Dean stands.

[stickdog]

46. Clark on middle class opportunity: "Who cares about IT going to India?

We can do other jobs."

[the populist]

8. Gephardt is a better candidate.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you care more about a war that has already occurred than you do about the industrial health of America and the rights of the worker, then by all means vote Dean.

Dean has all the disadvantages of being a liberal (by being perceived as one) and none of the advantages (because we know all he really wants to do is "balance the budget", he doesn't give a damn what middle class lives he will ruin by doing that so compulsively).

Dean supported NAFTA; Gephardt confronted Clinton about it. Gephardt is the REAL anti-establishment candidate (Kucinich aside).

[pasadenaboy]

21. What other wars would Dick lead us into?

If Iraq is okay, why not Iran, or Syria, or Jordan?

Dick has never said he regretted his vote. He has never said the war was wrong, just the way it was done.

He will never get my vote in the primary.

[the populist]

28. That's a good point.

And I find his "Defend Israel at any cost" agenda loathsome; but I simply find the issue of trade more important than foreign policy.

[blm]

34. Your guy was FOR the illegal wars in Central America

by Reagan and Bush. What does THAT say about him?

He was also for use of force in Biden-Lugar and was saying that Bush should look at Iran and North Korea before focusing on Iraq. your guy is a right winger masquerading as a progressive populist ONLY for the primary.

[patricia92243]

9. Dean has never said he is a left-wing liberal. The press has said it in a

negative way - to make him seem like a nut case.

[cryofan]

30. Dean makes statements IMPLYING he is part of left wing Democrats

On CNN about 2 weeks ago, I heard him say two or 3 sentences that implied that his campaing was part and parcel of the left wing of the democratic party. I nearly choked. I posted about it here on DU as soon as I heard.

That is what DEan does. When called on it by the media (which is quite seldom) he denies he is a liberal, but then he turns right back around and says about his campaign that it is the arising of the left wing and that the centrists are out to stop him (paraphrased).

[QC]

10. One thing I will never understand is why so many sanctimonious,

leftier-than-thou types have been so thoroughly taken in by this Elmer Gantry and his traveling road show.

They act like he's the Che Guevara of Park Avenue or something, and yet they have the nerve to trash everyone else as "Repuke lite."

[wyldwolf]

11. And that, my friend, is the million dollar question...

[maddezmom]

25. just hope we get the answer before it's too late n/t

[Kahuna]

49. It's hard to admit you've been snookered when...

you've invested time and money.

[stickdog]

47. The answer is extremely simple. Every viable alternative -- other than

the political cipher named Clark -- has PROVEN himself to be a grade A neocon enabler.

And Dean's rise is the only reason ANY of the candidates started attacking Bush.

Finally, Dean's has raised his money and created a huge grassroots organization from regular people.

[Cuban_Liberal]

12. And balancing budgets is a bad thing because....?

:shrug:

[sangha]

39. Here. Maybe you'll read it the 2nd time

" When Dean entered the Vermont State House in 1991, inheriting a budget deficit, he immediately endorsed his GOP predecessor's plan for cuts in social spending. He also enlisted Republican businessmen as economic advisers, sparking charges of apostasy from within his party. ("At least he's our Republican," one local Democrat quipped.)"

I don't see one word of criticism for balancing the budget. I do see criticism for adopting the REPUBLICAN plan to balance the budget - CUT SOCIAL SPENDING.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

42. Actually that's the1st time I ever saw that

I knew he did some things antithetical to Democratic instinct but that sums it up pretty well.

[maddezmom]

13. sums it up well n/t

[eileen from OH]

15. See, this is exactly what pisses Dean supporters.

Dean has NEVER paraded around as a liberal. How can he be a phony one if it's a position he's never espoused? From day one, he told people that were supporting him because of his opposition to the war not to fall in love with him as an anti-war candidate, because he wasn't anti-war, just anti-THIS war. He has freely said that he did not embrace the gay civil rights issue, it came to him. He said he didn't know anything about it but after the court ruled he was forced to look at it and decided that it was the right thing to do, although wildly unpopular. The old not-doing-a-public-signing thing has been thoroughly debunked - most gays don't care - important thing is that he did it and he did it BEFORE an election.

Jeebus X. Christ - it's come full circle. The man defies labels - he's conservative on some issues (mostly fiscal) and liberal on others. What is so hard to figure out? The media and the Repubs and some of him opponents were the one that labeled him a liberal. Now, when, well, DUH, they finally look at him and discover he's not, it's HIS BLOODY FAULT???? He's a phony because it turns out that he's not what THEY labeled him?

Honest to God, I'm pretty even-tempered on this board as anyone who's read my shit will attest, I think. But this takes the cake, really it does.

I like him exactly BECAUSE he isn't easily categorized and because that's the way I am too - liberal on some things, not-so-liberal on others.

eileen from OH (rant over)

[blm]

17. Then maybe he shouldn't have labeled longtime GREAT Dem lefties Bushlite

to coopt the primary.

If Dean had a voting record in Congress it would look more like Zell Miller's. He would be considered worse than Joe Lieberman, especially on civil liberties issues.

Dean labeled Kerry as Bushlite and he is running with a lifetime ratling closest to Wellstone, fer chrissakes. Dean brought this on with his deceptive rhetoric. Hold him accountable.

[QC]

18. Dean presenting himself as the Rightful Heir to Paul Wellstone might also

have something to do with it.

Remember his fondness for Wellstone's line, "I'm here to represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"? Given Wellstone's status as one of the strongest liberals in American politics, it would not be unreasonable for anyone to interpret Dean's "appropriation" of that line as a declaration of his own liberalism.

Yeah, the press sucks, but they're not entirely to blame for this one.

[eileen from OH]

22. Just because someone is a lifetime "great" Dem leftie

if they are caving to the Bush agenda, as a LOT of them did - despite their "great" histories, then they ARE Bush-lite. Geez, do you not remember what happened prior to the bloodbath election of 2002, when all these guys couldn't WAIT to show how much they supported the Bush agenda, by supporting Iraq, No Child Left Behind, the Patriot Act, ad nauseum.

THAT'S what Dean railed against, THAT'S what he called Bush-lite. Being a "liberal" didn't have nuthin' to do with it. Does one have to be a true liberal in order to oppose Bush? See, I don't think so. I think you just have to have a modicum of common sense. No labels needed.

eileen from OH

[blm]

24. Baloney. Dean was touting his conservative creds

well into 2002, and only tacked left when the antiwar movement grew.

In July, 2002 Dean was sucking up to Bush's foreign policy and treating Kerry as if he was a leftwing upstart for criticizing Bush on Afghanistan.

He was in SC in March 2002 touting his conservative record and never ONCE mentioned the civil unions bill. Put him in a room with gay people and he was all about the civil unions bill. He's a charlatan.

Dean was FOR a resolution for use of force, too. Doesn't talk about it much does he?

Dean SUGGESTED a Patriot Act 3 days after 9-11. he doesn't mention that does he?

Bet he doesn't repeat his right wing views on civil liberties anymore, does he?

[eileen from OH]

35. Okaaaaay. . .

Dean has always said he supported the war in Afghanistan. Right, I agree. Conservative position or liberal? I don't recall Kerry being opposed to it. It's been a colossal screwup since then, mostly since we diverted intelligence, resources, and people, to the Iraq debacle.

In SC Dean touted his "fiscal conservative" record, which he still does. So he didn't work civil liberties into that speech, huh? You think ANY of 'em bring up gay civil liberties in the South if they don't hafta? C'mon, now, do they? Or, you think if ANY of 'em are in front of a gay audience that they DON'T play it up? Geez, it's called reading/knowing your audience and playing to your strengths with your audience. Geez, didya happen to notice the Diversity Lovefest at the Black & Brown debate? Any of them that DOESN'T do that is a bloody idiot.

The did-he-didn't he on the Iraq war is a circular argument that makes as much sense as the "is Clark a Democrat" one. No winners. No concessions. Dean's comments have been parsed ad nauseum, with no one, seemingly convinced - except for Kerry supporters who seem to think it's a big gotcha if they can point to one thing Dean said that somehow makes it "okay" that Kerry voted for it.

Suggesting "a" Patriot Act is a far cry from voting and supporting what we wound up with. Even Gore has said that there are good things in it. Gawd knows the co-ordination between intelligence gathering entities, which is part of that, is waaaaay overdue.

What I'm trying to say is that Dean's positions are based less on traditional labels than individual positions on individual issues and this drives pundits wild. Politicians must be easily labeled, must fit in certain categories. Let's go down the checklist and decide what he is and then, if something appears that is contrary to that, WHAM - well it's not THEIR fault - HE'S the phony, HE'S the one passing himself off as something, HE'S the liar/hypocrite/name your label.

eileen from OH

[blm]

36. With Dean it is not SOME thing..it's lots of things.

And there is NO DOUBT that Dean supported a bill much like the final IWR.

Don't talk about how brave and stand up Dean is and the excuse him for wimping out on issues in front of crowds he doesn't want to offend with gay civil union talk. The fact is that back then, Dean was planning his run to claim the center and paint everyone else as out of touch liberals.

And Dean refused to stand against Bush AFTER months of Kerry attacking Bush for his failure at Tora Bora which was NO SMALL THING.

But Dean sided with Bush for HIS political expedience. He could not allow Kerry to appear correct on a major issue.


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.

[sangha]

40. Dean thinks Tora Bora was successful??

Maybe he is an idiot.

Doesn't he know they almost all got away, including Osama Bin Laden who was supposedly in some sort of noose that got tighter every day.

But aside from that, it was a great success.

[eileen from OH]

41. Excuse me, but I sure would

like an instance when ANY of the candidates talked about gay civil unions in front of a Southern audience if they didn't have to. They would have to be bloody NUTS to do it. Dean ain't runnin' on a gay civil union ticket, he just happens to be the only one who had to put his signature on it. He doesn't run away from it, but he also isn't dumb enough to use it as his central issue in front of people who don't understand it. You think Kerry talks gun control in front of Southern audience, if he doesn't have to? I hope the hell not. ALL of 'em tailor their message to their audience. It's smart campaigning and I don't think any the less of ANY of 'em for doing it.

As for the Russert quote. . .I'd have to look at the timing and context. Don't know that I agree with his statement, but I don't agree with everything out of his mouth. But. .. how is this an attack on Kerry exactly? I don't see any mention of Kerry at all. There WERE a lot of people criticizing the action in Afghanistan and Tora Bora. Russert didn't name Kerry and neither did Dean.

Lookit, you obviously don't like Dean and that's your right. But, again, I think you're missing what I was trying to say.

eileen from OH

[blm]

43. Russert showed a clip of Kerry bashing Bush on Tora Bora

(and had been doing so for months) before he asked Dean that question.. Most everyone knew by then it was a failed strategy by Bush and incredibly dangerous because it allowed most of al Qaeda to escape intact.

Dean is so politically craven he couldn't agree with Kerry and acted like it was indecent and unpatriotic of Kerry to criticize the commander-in-chief at a time of war.

I am so sick of the BS stirred up by Dean and his supporters that claim Dean was the FIRST and only one to stand against Bush.

[hey2370]

23. Bush-Lite doesn't mean Dean is more left than them

It means that they are afraid to take on Bush, which they all were until Dean started to poll well after he attacked Bush. Basically, Kerry, Gephardt ,Lieberman would be talking about how they completely agree with Bush except for some small niggling details if it weren't for Dean. Attacking Bush now, when it is safe, does not make these men more than the cowards that they have shown themselves to be. Gephardt - Rose Garden with Bush - hello?!?! Were you all asleep then, when Dick sold out the Dems so that he could position himself for the Presidential elections this year?

[blm]

32. Demonstrably untrue. Kerry went after Bush FIRST on his failed strategy at

Tora Bora. He railed against Bush for months and then when Howie was asked about Kerry's blistering attacks on Bush, Dean sided with Bush.

Don't give ME that pile of crap pushed by Dean and Dean supporters that he was the first to take on Bush. Dean CAVED in July 2002 when Dems could have stood up against Bush's failure. Dean didn't stand up against the war till the antiwar crowds grew. Before that he was FOR a resolution for use of force that STILL would have given Bush the same determination for use of force as the IWR.

Dean on MTP, July 2002:


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.

[eileen from OH]

38. I know what you are saying and I agree, though I wouldn't go so

far as call them "cowards." Poll-driven politicians, yes. I think we're on the same track here, though.

I wish everyone would think back to before the 2002 election. Don't you remember how fucking FRUSTRATED we were as we watched good liberal Dems, who we all admired, caving? Time after fucking time? If it wasn't the IWR, it was the tax cut, or the Patriot Act, or No Child Left Behind, etc., etc.

Don't you remember how MAD we were? And how it seemed like Byrd was the only one who had the balls to go against Bush, in toto? (Yes, yes, Kucinich, too. But he had no where near the clout of Lieberman, Kerry or Gephardt. Edwards, too, but for some reason he gets more of a "pass" on it. But that's another post.)

And how fucking DEPRESSED we were during the 2002 election, watching some of these same wonderful Dems, who we admired, falling all over themselves trying to show how much they "supported" Bush, or at the very least, didn't go after him?

I don't particularly blame them. I don't think they were cowards. I don't know WHAT they were, outside of amazingly, stunningly disappointing. Dean didn't tap into anger, so much as a deep, deep disappointment. Because they ARE good liberals. They ARE good Democrats. Which made it all the more heartbreaking that they let us down.

eileen from OH

[stickdog]

48. blm, Dean was a nobody. The only reason the "Bush-lite" label propelled

him ahead of the Bush-lite pack is because it was so true.

[progressivebydesign]

19. This only helps Dean..

How will the scummy GOP paint him as a "liberal" out of touch with America? Dean has NEVER claimed to be liberal.. only democrat. I take this article with some satisfaction... Clinton was a centrist.

[MoonRiver]

20. Dean's only claim to fame is opposition to IWR, which Clark also opposed

Two very important differences between the two are:

1.) Clark is MUCH more liberal than Dean

2.) Clark is MUCH more electable than Dean.

Gooooooo General Clark!!!!!

[Clark4VotingRights]

27. This is a really good column. It's not a trash piece. It's realistic.

The CSMonitor is actually one of the better papers, IMO.

[cryofan]

29. Meet the New Boss.....same as the Old Boss

Yes, if you read quotes from Dean when he was VT gov, his true political philosophy comes across plain as day (see www.mylinuxisp.com/~cryofan/dean.html for proof that Dean is really a conservative)

What I find most disturbing about Dean is that if you listen to his media soundbites, he slips in these statements that IMPLY that he is part of the liberal faction of the Democratic party. Now, of course, if you ask him straight out if he is a liberal, he will say he is a centrist. But all the while, his campaign spews a swirl of statements implying that he is a lefty. And he seems to know that the media is not going to call him on his little act.....they will save that for the general election.

[Skwmom]

31. He's just a phony.

Who knows whether Dean would be a liberal or a conservative. The only guiding principle for Dean seems to be what will play best to the masses.

[killbotfactory]

33. That's why I switched to Lieberman

Joe is a "real centrist" unlike Dean, who claims he's a centrist but then gets called a liberal by the media.

[w4rma]

44. How can he be a "phony liberal" when he calls himself a moderate? (n/t)

[stickdog]

45. Read the entire article. It's quite good. Here's how it closes.

So when Howard Dean's critics say that he's a Johnny-come-lately liberal, they're right. But when they say he's too "extreme" to win a general election, they're wrong.

In April 1980, a failed mission to rescue hostages in Iran resulted in eight American deaths - and set the stage for Reagan's victory in November. If more and more Americans continue to perish in Iraq, Dean might receive a comparable boost.

In the end, though, Dean's fate will hinge less upon the war in Iraq than upon the battle inside the Democratic Party. Ronald Reagan reinvigorated his own party by reminding voters what it used to represent, before moderates - like Reagan himself, ironically - diluted its message. Howard Dean can do the same.

[dionysus]

50. you quoted that out of context on purpose

to make it look like the opinion of the author. That's dishonest and not objective at all. The full quote reads

By now, we've all heard the rap on Dr. Dean from Democratic moderates: He's "unelectable." His liberal platforms - especially on taxes and foreign policy - conjure George McGovern, who back in 1972 suffered the party's worst drubbing. Even more, he's a phony liberal: running for president as a left-wing firebrand, he governed Vermont as a cautious centrist

but you also purposefully left out the part later on

So when Howard Dean's critics say that he's a Johnny-come-lately liberal, they're right. But when they say he's too "extreme" to win a general election, they're wrong.

In April 1980, a failed mission to rescue hostages in Iran resulted in eight American deaths - and set the stage for Reagan's victory in November. If more and more Americans continue to perish in Iraq, Dean might receive a comparable boost.

In the end, though, Dean's fate will hinge less upon the war in Iraq than upon the battle inside the Democratic Party. Ronald Reagan reinvigorated his own party by reminding voters what it used to represent, before moderates - like Reagan himself, ironically - diluted its message. Howard Dean can do the same.