Another former Dean guy for Lieberman

[Brian_Expat]

After deeply considering my other options, I have decided that aggressive foreign policy and proactively fighting the war on terror are two top considerations in this campaign. Therefore I have changed my support to another candidate. It came down to Clark or Lieberman, and I have made the choice to support Lieberman.

I wanted to support Clark, but I think he is too soft on terrorism (flip-flopping on the Iraq War Resolution, first supporting it and now opposing it), trying to pander to the far left of the party. Joe Lieberman has stood up to terrorism his entire career.

Secondly, I think Joe has a long and established career as a Democrat, versus Clark who is a Democrat come lately.

Thirdly, Joe is passionately committed to balancing the budget, rather than pursue risky spendthrift programs.

Fourthly, Joe has values. Something that always bothered me about Clark was his total chameleon-like personality -- no real religious, spiritual or political values. Joe Lieberman, on the other hand, supports religious choice and has a strong set of spiritual values that guide him every day.

Fifthly, I think contrasting Wes Clark's failures with Joe's lack of failures is telling. Wes wants to fight the war on terror, but he couldn't even end the hatred between Serbs and Muslims in the middle east. Joe has had success after success fighting both terror abroad, and cultural terror at home. His successful campaign with Tipper Gore to inform parents about the violent/obscene content of music, movies and video games with MPIAA ratings was a real coup and helps protect my nephews from undue influences and cultural terrorism at home.

While I don't agree with everything Joe stood for (I didn't agree with everything Dean stood for either), I think he's the best choice for Democrats -- certainly better than the soft-on-terror Wesley Clark. What do you think?

[cindyw]

1. Nice way to attack Clark. Are any other people getting annoyed

with Dean supporters looking for ways to attack candidates by either using other candidates are trying to pit Clark and Kerry people or Kerry and edwards people and on and on? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Brian_Expat]

5. I am a Lieberman supporter. . .

. . . and your efforts to talk about Dean are clearly an effort to run away from comparing Clark's record to Joe's. I know why -- Joe's record on terror is better, much better.

[Hoppin_Mad]

2. Plus - Joe ain't scared to debate - even in states where he's not running

Says a lot about him AND the General !

[Brian_Expat]

4. I agree

I simply couldn't support Wesley Clark with all these questions about his beliefs -- not to mention his soft-on-terror approach to Iraq, which I believe he changed specifically to cater to the hard left in the Democratic party.

[BootinUp]

3. Clever way to disguise a Clark Bashing thread!

:puke:

[slor]

Voting for Joe eh?

Well then you might as well say enjoy your next 4 years W!

[BootinUp]

9. eh....see that avatar?

[Brian_Expat]

10. Au contraire

It's about electability. Americans are not going to accept an anti-war candidate or flip-flop on the war candidate. They want someone who supports the Iraq War (as a strong majority of Americans do) and the War on Terror. Only Joe Lieberman has stood strongly for both.

[BootinUp]

13. your so full of it :)

nice try.

You are a hard core dean supporter hiding in lieberman clothing sneaking up on clark supporters with a large concealed knife.

[Brian_Expat]

14. I have changed my support for candidates. . .

. . . just like many Clark supporters did. You're attacking me instead of Joe because I think you're afraid of Joe's superior record on terror.

[BootinUp]

43. LOL!

Joes the last guy I want in there. I would rather have Kucinich than Joe.

[Brian_Expat]

45. You're obviously not concerned about electability

The simple truth is that a former Clinton-era general who is perceived as soft-on-terror who receives endorsements from ultra-liberal Madonna and far-out Michael Moore is not going to attract swing voters.

And we HAVE to win those swing voters.

[lancdem]

6. Lieberman's a thousand times better than Bush

but he's not my first choice. BTW, I don't understand your sentence about stopping hatred between Serbs and Muslims. The Kosovo War was a success in my book. The situation in the Balkans is undoubtedly better than it was a decade ago. Milosevic is now at the Hague. (FYI, there are no Serbs in the Middle East.)

[Brian_Expat]

7. I believe that only Lieberman is hard on terror

Part of my reason for not supporting Clark is that I don't think he's electable. A strong majority of Americans supported the Iraq war and continue to support it. Only Joe Lieberman has done this, and only a Democrat who strongly supports the war on terror is electable.

I might think another candidate is better, but I have to use common sense and vote for someone who is electable. Joe Lieberman is that man.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. This thread is blatantly dishonest.

And it's not fooling anyone.

:puke:

[KissMyAsscroft]

11. Well, Lieberman has no chance, so who cares...

nt

[Brian_Expat]

12. There's nothing "blatant" about it. . .

. . . and I resent your personal attacks. Personal attacks will not make your candidate more electable.

[name not needed]

16. They won't make yours

more electable either.

:puke:

[Brian_Expat]

41. My candidate, Joe Lieberman, is the most electable. n/t

[toddzilla]

17. tell us how the iraq war has anything to do with terrorism?

please expound...

[Brian_Expat]

19. The Iraq War is part of the war on terror. . .

. . . for most Americans. It's time to be sensible -- Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who made the world dangerous. Most Americans are glad he is gone, and running against that is a loser.

The most important thing in this election is winning. Period.

[toddzilla]

27. thank you MR. ROVE..

now , tell us how the war in iraq has anything to do with terrorism.


i'm not talking about the uninformed general populace that might buy your CNN talking points, but someone who knows that voting for an illegal invasion is dangerous, stupid, and inhumane.

[Brian_Expat]

29. The most important thing is winning this election. . .

. . . losing and being "right" means four more years of Bush. For the sake of my nephews, I cannot allow that to happen. We MUST run a candidate who can win -- right now, that's the ONLY thing that matters.

[amber dog democrat]

30. No its about OIL

and the centralization of political authority in the Middle East. We have come to be terrorists our selves in the process.

I will NEVER support Lieberman. He is way too compromised morally in defending the Chimp's imperial aspirations.

[Brian_Expat]

32. Most Americans don't see it as about oil

And if you support anyone like Clark who isn't electable, you are supporting Bush. Electability is the only thing that matters.

[Zinnola]

34. You, know I think you are on to something

Lieberman is the best choice, because he is the SAFE choice. No more Dean for me either dammit! At least you know where Lieberman stands on the issues, and he is so mild mannered and will resonate with religious voters in the South.

I am ready to step up on that Joemobile express with you. Let Liebermania begin!:bounce:

[Brian_Expat]

35. You mirror my thoughts exactly.

Wesley Clark, in comparison, is too liberal and simply unelectable. His anger against Bush isn't going to help either -- Americans don't like loud, angry people. The bit with him shouting "this flag belongs to us" is going to turn off even more voters.

[Hawkeye-X]

49. You are the man!

Welcome to the Joe camp! Those Clark fools are still stubborn on thinking we are both for Dean but we aren't. I just donated a large amount of money to Joe to support his candidacy!

Hawkeye-X

[nomaco-10]

15. Thank Heavens...

finally a thread that is positive for my candidate. Joe is a swell guy with lots of experience. He works well with the republicans and has lots of people that really like him alot all over the world. He will not put up with pesky terrorists invading our shores and stands firm against socialism and communism and those kind of people. Joe is on the same page as most good americans, he has religion and family values. He never flip flops on the important issues like going to war and protecting us is his number one priority. Joe is who we need in 2004. GO JOE HE'S GOT HIS MOJO WORKING FOR 2004

[Brian_Expat]

20. I don't agree with everything Joe says. . .

. . . but I don't agree with everything any candidate says. I think there's a lot of renewed excitement around a Lieberman candidacy too in the grass roots. He is going to do very, very well in NH -- I think it's possible he could knock Clark out of second place with his decision to relocate to NH.

[killbotfactory]

18. The Liebermania continues!

Get ready for a surprise comeback in NH, where he'll edge out Clark and emerge as the REAL "Anti-Dean"!

[Brian_Expat]

21. I'm not voting for "anti" anyone. . .

. . . other than anti-Bush. I did the math and looked at the polls and only Joe Lieberman is electable. Wesley Clark and the others aren't electable because they're against the Iraq War.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brian_Expat]

23. My sister has two children. . .

. . . and I am very concerned for their welfare. Under a Bush presidency, they won't do as well as a Lieberman one. That's why I am moving to support someone electable under the present political situation -- who supports the war that a majority of Americans support.

As for referring to heterosexuals as "breeders," I find that kind of language offensive.

[Hoppin_Mad]

24. I'd vote for long time Dem Joe before I'd vote for Johnny come lately Wes

Easily !

[Brian_Expat]

25. I will vote for whoever the party nominates. . .

. . . but as I think about electability, only Joe has a position that a majority of Americans agree with.

He's also great on other issues like gay rights, abortion and civil rights -- and he has moral values, something that I think we could use in this country. After seeing some of the violence pitched to my young nephews, I wanted to hand out some of Joe's "Silver Sewer" awards myself! :grr:

[Walt Starr]

26. I must say, after truly examining the record I must agree and also switch

Thank you guys so much for convincing me to take a second look at Joe. there's nobody else in as good a position. He is definitely the strongest against terror and nobody can match his record when it comes to the most important issue of this election, National Defense.

GO JOE!!!!

[Brian_Expat]

28. Walt, you're reflecting a lot of Dean and Kerry supporters these days

Why didn't you go for Clark over Lieberman?

For me, the issues were pretty basic.

I don't think Clark's honesty in flip-flopping about the war in Iraq would help. Of course, coming down on the side of the extreme left will hurt him too -- a majority of Americans supported our action in Iraq, and supported the elimination of Hussein.

Also, I think Joe's honesty stems from his basic religious values. Joe is a committed spiritual guy and even though he doesn't always agree with me, he tells it like it is. he will never lie to me, something I cannot say I think about Clark.

Joe's also got a long history of supporting civil rights. This history is established, not just talk. I think that's also very, very important.

[tishaLA]

31. I really like how Joe and Lynne Cheney got together

to support the round up of "liberal" professors on college campuses. Oh, sure, the critics will carp and say it's the thought police--and others will say "but he didn't really help round anyone up! They were just taking names!"--but I say it's good to protect the nation's young from irresponsible and unresponsive liberalism.

Best of luck to you.

[Brian_Expat]

33. Joe quit that group. . .

Look, I don't agree with everything Joe does. But the Clark arguments about electability swayed me. The only problem is that when I looked at electability OBJECTIVELY, only Lieberman (not Clark) was electable. The numbers bear me out on this.

[tishaLA]

37. Oh that's too bad that he quit

His position about irresponsible and unresponsive liberalism, and his efforts to work across party lines with the VP's wife, made him very electable to me. Now he seems to be flip flopping like other politicians.

[Brian_Expat]

42. Joe's not perfect

But he is ELECTABLE. And electability is all that matters in this race. We have GOT to beat Bush. A soft-on-terror Democrat-come-lately with endorsements from ultra-liberals like Madonna and Michael Moore is going to lose this election by a LANDSLIDE.

[Constitution]

36. Okay, well I guess we should spread the word that Dean supporters

are now suggesting people vote for Lieberman instead of Dean. How about some television commercials. I'd be willing to write letters to everyone who might otherwise be tempted to vote for Dean. Personally, I like Lieberman a lot better than Dean - although I'm not voting for either one. But I'm not buying.

So what's the real game?

[Brian_Expat]

39. EVERYONE needs to follow their heads, not their hearts.

A vote should be about electability and electability alone.

[Exgeneral]

38. I thought I was the only one on the fence over this

this has caused some real fights at the diner table this week, let me tell you. The wife is pretty enamored of "that pretty boy" Wesley Clark as she calls him and I keep telling her that he's just too soft on terror to beat the president.

I am still leaning to Clark, but your arguments here play to the centrist in me that wants to see the US flex her muscle for the good of all.No one else has the military wherwithall to defat these godless terrorists, and you would think General Clark would know this instinctively. I don't know if the general is up for the challenge personally. It seems his numbers have peaked , particularly in the polls i've seen lately in the PI.

[Brian_Expat]

40. Lieberman is gaining a lot of traction. . .

. . . and Americans considering Wesley Clark over electability should move to the more electable candidate. Wesley Clark, who is perceived as an ultra-liberal soft on terror because of his Madonna and Moore endorsements and perceived flip-flop on the Iraq War, is not electable in my opinion.

His lack of strong religious values also won't help him with ordinary Americans in the South and Midwest.

[nomaco-10]

44. Yes, somehow Madonna and family values just...

don't mix. Clark should have really tried to disuade her going public with an endorsement. I'm prretty sure Joe would have no part of that in his campaign thank heavens.
GO JOE!!!

[Brian_Expat]

46. Exactly. . .

. . . unlike Clark, Joe knows how to get elected and stay elected. We cannot let Clark's inexperience cost us this election!

[Exgeneral]

47. anyone else here think that.....

Madonna and the General?

no. could Never happen. Spare us.

[Brian_Expat]

48. The problem is. . .

. . . that a lot of Americans will have exactly those thoughts, and this sort of thing hurts a candidate's opportunity to get swing voters. This is going to devestate the Democratic Party if Clark is the nominee.