NPR on Clark: 'stubborn, abrasive, overbearing and self-righteous'

[Patriot_Spear]

Since we're talking about electability- NPR on Clark:

"He is intense and aggressive, driven and smart, and always focused. But, according to reports, he is also stubborn and abrasive, overbearing and self-righteous, and no profile of Clark seems complete without these characterizations. He was removed from his NATO post in 1999, after feuding with Defense Secretary Bill Cohen and Joint Chiefs Chairman Hugh Shelton, and the sniping from those who served with him continues, albeit mostly anonymously."

"... But nominations are won on a different kind of battlefield, and that's where Clark has many disadvantages. By getting into the race late, he has watched as key party operatives and much early money went to other candidates. Lacking a strong organization in Iowa, he has withdrawn from the Jan. 19 caucuses. His lack of strong party ties has come under attack in the early debates."


http://www.npr.org/programs/specials/democrats2004/clark.html

On a personal note- to be fair I think the negatives they attribute to Clark are probbably common to many leaders.

[AnnabelLee]

1. Sheesh

Why didn't they throw in "vain, pompous brownnoser" & "blow-dried Napoleon" while they were at it?:eyes:

[KittyWampus]

6. What's The Difference Between A Brown Nose & An Ass Kisser?

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Depth Perception! :D

[roguevalley]

2. When are they going to get that 1999 thing right? I don't care.

I want my candidate to be human, rather than simian.
Go Clark.

[KittyWampus]

4. Vote Democrat- The Party With Opposable Thumbs

:D

[Melodybe]

45. LOL! As an Anthropologist I appreciate your humor! Screw NPR, Clark rulz

[Name removed]

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[laruemtt]

5. it would be my guess

those defining him as the first definition are of higher intelligence, and those defining him as the second are more on oxymoron's level, blustering, jealous and scared how unfavorably they compare to him.

[Name removed]

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[deminflorida]

16. Not really you just have to have finished 1st in your class at.....

West Point. Of course not being a ski champion probably helps too.

[TorchTheWitch]

31. sorry

"That's a good description of most generals..." you really do have to be a special breed of asshole to rise that high in military ranks.

My uncle is hardly and asshole. I suggest you take care on who you insult here with absolutely no level of credibility.

[elperromagico]

9. Hey! That's a pretty accurate description of Bush too!

But when referring to Bush, those qualities are referred to as "leadership."

It's funny how, whenever Clark was being assessed by his superiors in the military, they never commented on these character traits. Only now, when he's running for President, does the military tear into him.

[Jackhammer Jesus]

10. While we're speculating about his personality, I'd like to add that

Clark is also "reported" to eat kitten fetuses.

STOP THE PRESSES! :P

There's a pretty good interview linked from the page. Better to hear from the candidate himself than discuss anonymous reports about his temperament, I think.

[bowens43]

23. Why is the candidate more

credible then then the anonymous reports? Common sense tells us that you don't become a general by being liberal or progressive, you become a general by being an SOB. I really don't care if chooses to dine on kitten fetuses but I have seen enough arrogance and belligerence in the oval office to last me a life time.

[mikehiggins]

39. Well, get ready for four more years of it

Unless you think that someone else has a good shot at beating Bush in November.

We don't.

[Droopy]

11. I've seen Clark a few times now

and I haven't picked up on any of those negative personality traits. He comes across as an intelligent and compassionate person. I suppose it's hard to get to know somebody through the tv, but I'm betting it isn't all that bad with the General. If he's faking it he's a pretty good actor.

[deminflorida]

12. You left out the best part which will be the end of Howard Dean..

"At the moment, his best early state seems to be South Carolina, which votes on Feb. 3. Polls show him running neck-and-neck with Edwards (whose campaign sees S.C. as a "must win"); the Rev. Al Sharpton also is focusing heavily on the state. Clark has picked up much of the campaign apparatus of former candidate Bob Graham and hopes to do well in Florida's primary on March 9 -- assuming the battle for the nomination lasts that long."

Don't forget Dean meets his Gettysburg in the South on Feb. 3, 2004....and for the 65% to 70% of the democratic party that is NOT polling currently in his favor, good riddens to him...

[BootinUp]

13. More than likely

these are people (making this claim) who would have liked to have been SACEUR instead of Clark. Clark makes no bones about the fact he fought against some of the policies, and was outspoken while he was in the military.

[robbedvoter]

17. Funny, those under his command have a different view than NPR:

http://www.clark04.com/story/51/
But what do they know?

[robbedvoter]

18. And another opposing view - based on facts, not gossip:

SPACE-SAVER
by Michael Crowley
Candidate: Wesley Clark
Category: General Likeability
Grade: A
It's been said that Clark is insufferably arrogant, a man happiest in front of the mirror. So you might think that his lengthy new autobiography, Winning Modern Wars, would take the time to detail one of the most bravely heroic moments of his life.
The episode in question was detailed in a profile of Clark in today's Boston Globe. The Globe's Michael Kranish recounts how Clark responded in 1995 when a French armored personnel carrier, part of a convoy Clark was riding in to Sarajevo, plunged off a mountain road. "Suddenly, shooting broke out, followed by explosions," Kranish writes. "The noise may have been Serbian gunners, or the munitions in the French vehicle, or both." Clark, then a senior general, didn't flinch. "Clark found a rope, tied it around a tree, and rappelled to the burning vehicle," Kranish continues. "'Bring a fire extinguisher!' Clark yelled, according to <richard>Holbrooke's account, but none could be found."
Clark couldn't save any lives--he returned from the ravine to report that the casualties below were "the worst thing you've ever seen." But the point here is not so much Clark's bravery. It's how he treats the incident in his book. As Kranish puts it: "It was one of the most extraordinary, difficult, and dangerous days of Clark's life. Yet in his 479-page autobiography, Clark devotes less than one paragraph to it. In an interview ... Clark explained that Holbrooke had described the event already, and that he had some space constraints in his autobiography."

[mouse7]

49. Doubtful on that "happiest in front of a mirror" part

You don't graduate 1st in your class at West Point and have any time left in your day for mirror-gazing.

I've heard some pretty nasty things about Hugh Shelton from multiple sources. That leads me to think I probably would tend to like someone who doesn't get along with him.

I'd like Clark a lot better with Kucinich's Heath Plan, though. Clark's proposal is okay, but I think Kucinich has the health care issue down. Health Care would be far more affordable if we weren't paying for drug ads and marketing costs.

[Eric J in MN]

19. "according to reports, he is.."

The words "according to reports, he is.." say it all.

Anonymous, unsourced smear.

If someone decided to write about you that "according to reports" you are a terrible person, how would you answer that garbage?

[robbedvoter]

20. More opposing views here:

http://www.clark04.com/americanson/

[Myra]

21. Good to know you want "to be fair" when you post a smear Patriot_Spear

I'm curious. Do you have a personal definition of "smear"?

[Egnever]

32. Isnt this the general smear forum?

if not please explain to me the majority of posts on this page.

[robbedvoter]

22. More rebuttal here:

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/WesleyClark.htm

[billbuckhead]

26. Can we still nasty things about NPR?They're not considered liberal anymore

:)

[robbedvoter]

24. Arent't you glad HD supporters muzzled everyone's style and preach

unity and non-attack of fellow democrats? No nicknames!
That will take care of their delicate souls...

[Name removed]

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[Scott Lee]

55. Surely you aren't suggesting Dean supporters make rules at DU?

If you are going to make such an insinuation, please be brave enough to direct it to those who make the rules at DU - the administration.

Look forward to seeing your charges on the ATA forum.

[robbedvoter]

25. Since you like NPR, watch NOW with Bill Moyers tomorrow

He will have on Samantha Power who wrote this about Clark:

http://Blog.forclark.com/story/2003/11/28/81836/095

She details his efforts in behalf of the Dayton Peace Accords and his brilliant command of NATO forces in Kosovo. Her chapter on Kosovo ends, "The man who probably contributed more than any other individual to Milosvevic's battlefield defeat was General Wesley Clark. The NATO bombing campaign succeeded in removing brutal Serb police units from Kosovo, in ensuring the return on 1.3 million Kosovo Albanians, and in securing for Albanians the right of self-governance

[billbuckhead]

27. I'm so frustrated with NPR. In the car, you have little choice.

I have Monday morning hate session on the way to work when Cokie Roberts does her........

[drfemoe]

29. maybe someone

should send him to Ira* to rescue the military operations.

[drfemoe]

28. How many

classified documents will suddenly become unclassified if Clark is the dem nominee?

[Name removed]

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[Jerseycoa]

30. I know

None of this is news to you or anybody else on DU, since it's been posted in one form or another a hundred times or more in my brief tenure.

I actually like that he butted heads with the Pentagon. A lot of people like it. They needed him or, I am sure, he would never have risen the way he did in the military. But he wasn't one to take shit from anybody. He still isn't. He earned his right to talk back to the brass by turning around failing base after failing base throughout his career, or they would have gotten rid of him a lot earlier.

The thing is, he is just not ordinary. He is brilliant, but doesn't rest on that. He's earned every step he's made. Once he was under Clinton, his job was partly diplomatic, which placed him partly in State, where his creative abilities were respected. The military brass could stand it when he was theirs, because it paid off for them in reviews of excellence, but once he was something more, they couldn't.

For every critical quote about him, though, there are multiple admiring ones, so I don't sweat it. It just gets tiresome seeing it over and over.

Here is what Clinton wrote while Clark was testifying at The Hague and Milosevic attempted to turn Shelton's criticism against Clark:

"Contrary to Mr. Milosevic's claim, Gen. Wesley Clark carried out the policy of the NATO alliance, which was to stop massive ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, with great skill, integrity and iron determination," the letter stated, according to officials at The Hague.

You're right about your comment on leaders. Thanks.

[Tom Rinaldo]

34. Uh, what about the rest Patriot?

If the part you did copy starts with "He is intense and aggressive, driven and smart, and always focused. But, according to reports, he is also stubborn and abrasive, overbearing and self-righteous, and no profile of Clark seems complete without these characterizations." Even the source you cited acknowledges that there is another part of the profile. Why did you leave out the few sentances that preceded those, to save space? Specifically:

"There is no question that Clark's 34-year military career was impressive. First in his class at West Point, awarded the Purple Heart and Silver Star in Vietnam, he helped negotiate the end of the conflict in Bosnia in 1995, and ran a war in the Balkans four years later that did not result in the loss of a single American life."

Yes Clark is complex, and so are jounalists who all want to earn their stripes by standing up to their subjects and wielding their pens aggressively. We have all seen that dynamic. According to some reports perhaps Clark seemed that way. According to many other reports I have read, by soldiers and officers who served with and under Clark, the picture is very different. Those "reports" aren't as "newsworthy" though. Where can you find such reports you might ask? Try Veterans for Clark for starters, they collect them there. Or watch "An American Son", find some computer with a broadband connection and watch it. Plenty of big brass not afraid to shine on Wes with the camera running.

If you go through Clarks records (he's released them) you will find that the Army frequently assigned him to turn around units and programs that were under performing in some critical ways. I read a comment by a General that said just that. The Pentagon kept giving Clark those tasks because he kept succeeding in turning around problem situations. He didn't do so by being soft and accepting about failure. Even his critics conceeded that Clark got the exact results desired and expected.

I remember reading on a Clark blog one time about a conversation a Clark backer had had with an officer who served under Clark one time and did feel that Clark was overly demanding. First the backer talked about the management style of Bill Gates (management style, not overall world view ethics and values) and several other specific CEO's of highly successful and competitive Corporations, and both the backer and the former officer recognized the same demanding leadership traits in all of those men, that Clark was accused of having. Then this guy asked the officer about how well the unit Clark was commanding at the time ranked in the standard performance reviews it was subjected to by outside the unit evaluaters. The officer replied "we always got the top rating of any similar unit we could be compared to." The ex-officer was then asked what do you think is most important for a President to achieve? The end of the blog comments had the backer saying he thought he won a new supporter for Clark's Presidential run.

As for the Shelton/Cohen related stuff, that one has gone around here a number of times by now, don't you think? The short and simple answer is: Clark was right and they were wrong.

[Patriot_Spear]

36. Check out my other thread Tom- I'm giving equal time. n/t

[Patriot_Spear]

35. Interesting: I post two articles on Clark- one postive one negative...

30 posts on the negative article.

0 posts on the positive article.

What does this mean?

[Cornus]

38. It means...

...that Clark supporters will come to his defense and we already know about the positive so there's no need to reply.

[Patriot_Spear]

40. There are other interpretations...

But that is one.

[Toucano]

42. Don't keep us in suspense!

What are the others?

[Patriot_Spear]

43. You tell me.

What do you think?

[mikehiggins]

37. Interesting selection from the Rudin article

Here's more of it:

"There is no question that Clark's 34-year military career was impressive. First in his class at West Point, awarded the Purple Heart and Silver Star in Vietnam, he helped negotiate the end of the conflict in Bosnia in 1995, and ran a war in the Balkans four years later that did not result in the loss of a single American life. He is intense and aggressive, driven and smart, and always focused. But, according to reports, he is also stubborn and abrasive, overbearing and self-righteous, and no profile of Clark seems complete without these characterizations. He was removed from his NATO post in 1999, after feuding with Defense Secretary Bill Cohen and Joint Chiefs Chairman Hugh Shelton, and the sniping from those who served with him continues, albeit mostly anonymously. After leaving the military, and before launching his political career, he was an analyst for CNN, where he was a consistent critic of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, which Clark calls a "historic blunder."

Seems a little more "fair and balanced" in context, doesn't it?

Some people like him, some people don't. Its a rare person who doesn't have supporters and detractors.

The question remains, who is most likely to have a decent shot at beating Bush in November? If your answer to that is Clark, you're probably right.

[Toucano]

41. I think your subject line is unfair.

NPR didn't say this about Clark. NPR reported that others said this about Clark.

[LTR]

44. 'stubborn, abrasive, overbearing and self-righteous?'

Sounds like presidential material to me!

[xultar]

46. Ok SO when Dean is stubborn,

abrasive, overbearing and self-righteous' he is fighting to take the us back. When, Clark does it its bad.

[xultar]

47. So now being a fighter is bad

HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTED TO SEND TROOPS TO RAWADA!
So now it appears wanting to help Africans is a negative thing to liberals Apparently liberals want to see 100k Africans hacked to death. I for one am glad he was fighting Cohen, Shelton, and others on Rawanda and others like it.
If you read Al Frankens most recent book the book you'd know and bringing up that Clark is stubbornness was his way of fighting for some thing! I thought Dean supporters liked a fighter. I wigh you guys would keep it straight.

[amber dog democrat]

50. Sounds like Bush

on a GOOD day. I like Clark. Welcome his presence.

[mzmolly]

51. One more reason I'd like to see him Govern / serve in the Senate before

becoming head honcho.

[Ilsa]

52. Excuse me, but doesn't a person

need a healthy ego to manage all the crap they put up with getting to the top? ANd don't we want a president who is sure of himself, but willing to ask for help when confronted with situations about which he may not have all the answers? That's part of leadership.

Think of all the time The Chimp looked overwhelmed. All the times the caption would have read, "Oh shit, somebody call Unca Dick."

The last thing we need is a pansy-ass taking orders from the Repuke congress instead of pushing his own agenda through.

Go Clark!

[arewethereyet]

53. ego is a fairly comon attribute

its more a question of degree, Clark is pretty much off the scale as is Dean but is somewhat different ways.

Edwards has ego and ambition but is clever enough to know when to keep it under wraps.

[shivaji]

54. Why is it when Dean outpolls Calrk by 2.5 to 1 Nationally,

there seems to be two and a half times as many Clark supporters on DU as Dean supporters?

May be the Dean supporters are busy doing actual campaign volunteering as opposed to lurking on DU.

I most certainly prefer Dean, but could vote clark in November.
Refer to my previous posts why I think Dean will be a much stronger candidate than any one else except Hillary.

[ldoolin]

56. kick

nt