If Kerry won the nomination, what would he do to Bush?

[frank frankly]

Would he hammer Bush on the war? Would his criticism be lessened by his IWR vote? If not, how far will he take it? Are the members of the Bush Administration War Criminals to JFK?

Will he get us out of Iraq and end our imperial economic/political empire there? How?

Would he expose the BFEE? How would it proceed? Trials? Would people go to jail?

What would the General Election look like? How would he do in the South?

------------
Please note: I am geniunely curious. I haven't seriously considered JFK since the IWR, so I haven't tried to imagine what his General Election campaign vs. Bush would look like, or what he would do as President.

Paint me a picture.

Thanks!

[hellhathnofury]

1. Think Dukakis with a McGovern resume.

[frank frankly]

14. blegh

puh-lease

[hellhathnofury]

30. Accurate comparison.

Dukakis was from Massachutsets and didn't fight back when he needed to Just like Kerry and Dean in the summer. McGovern was a bomber piolet with the 8th airforce.

I don't know why nobody picked up on this one before. It's alot more accurate than Dean-McGovern.

[zulchzulu]

35. Hogwash

If anything, Dean is more like Dukakis. A short governor from a New England state that's a Scorpio and a hothead... :->

[hellhathnofury]

40. "hothead"

the big criticism of Dukakis was that he didn't fight back.

I presume a hothead would lose his temper and fight, but that's just me.

[isbister]

29. The role of Dukakis will be played by George W.

Bush in his little package hugging jumpsuit.

[hellhathnofury]

31. Dareth you underestimate the Rove.

[isbister]

45. yes

Kerry was Dukakis' Lt. Gov. a few years before Dukakis face pappa bush and he saw Rove's mentor, Atwater, take advantage of that tank ride. Now bush went for a boat ride and Kerry will have the opportunity to stick one on a bush for Dukakis. And from all accounts Kerry's looking forward to that.

Kennedy said it in '88 and he'll say it again in '04... Where was George!

[mot78]

2. Kerry would have trouble fighting *

Not as much trouble as Dean, but Kerry would get protrayed as wishy-washy, unable to connect with voters (hey, if he gets nominated, *'s internet grassroots could be stronger than ours), and indecisive.

[Jim Sagle]

3. He'd poke w's eye out with his giant chin.

;-)

[frank frankly]

4. I was hoping to hear from Kerry supporters

this forum is as awful as I remembered...

[hellhathnofury]

5. They're off making their surge in Iowa.

They finally learned it pays to quit attacking others and campaign for once. Good for them!

[frank frankly]

6. yo, kerry supporters

drop some knowledge.

[wheresthemind]

7. I think Kerry would kick-ass!

I think he has a record that would allow him to attack Bush on his AWOL and national security as well as enough eloquence to make Bush look like a moron.

He has a strong liberal record and I think that would allow a lot of us to forgive his IWR vote.

[frank frankly]

8. that is how I see it, but it's fuzzy

details please

[AntiCoup2K4]

9. Skull & Bones vs Skull & Bones

Each bound by loyalty oath to each other, both advised by PNAC. Good time to move to Canada.

[sandnsea]

11. Yes, that stopped him in the 80's

Puhleese. Enough with Skull and Bones.

[frank frankly]

13. I've let go of Skull and Bones

it wasn't easy. i researched it before i found out Kerry was in it.

a terrible group. but i am pragmatic and interested in hearing more about Kerry vs. the BFEE

[AntiCoup2K4]

19. Skull & Bones IS the BFEE/BCE

All of the Bushes and a great number of their associates got their start in S&B. So did Kerry. Bonesmen are reqired to take an oath to each other and to their organization above all else. Has any of Kerry's investigation brought down the Bush Criminal Empire? No, because he can't bring them down. They're his "brothers".

And if that's not a problem for you, it should be.

[sandnsea]

20. Then why bother at all?

Why would he go through all he went through with Iran/Contra etc. for no reason? It makes no sense. Why would he have stopped the BFEE Vietnam war? Perhaps the reason he goes after it is because he KNOWS and has decided to put principles above all else.

[blm]

21. Wrong. BCCI was forced to CLOSE.

The illegal arms trading was forced to END.

The illegal wars in Central America were exposed and ended.

Kerry pushed prosecutions even when the Dem establishment wanted him to stop.

BCCI and IranContra were INVESTIGATED and EXPOSED by Kerry. Kerry was not the Independent Counsel on the cases. He was the one who FORCED them to indict. What happened after was out of Kerry's control.

Many were indicted and Bush1 was forced to pardon them. Ollie North had his conviction overturned.

The reason we even KNOW about the BFEE is because of Kerry's years of work investigating and exposing them.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zulchzulu]

39. The "Black Helicopter" crowd always uses that excuse when they've run...

...out of things to say.

Skull and Bones has plenty of people who are in the arts, philanthropy, the sciences, theology and other professions. If anything, Kerry and others during the late 60's made it so that women, minorities, gays and other religious denominations could be nominated and become members.

It's a Yale frat. Kerry joined it when he was 20. Then he risked his life after graduating and fought in Viet Nam. That's what really changed his life.

[sandnsea]

10. He is SOOOO pissed on this war

When you watch him as regularly as I do, you catch a glimpse of his deep-seated anger every now and then. He would thrash Bush on this war. Don't think he's got Rand Beers and Joe Wilson on his team for nothing.

And Max Cleland has been on the 9/11 intelligence investigation and knows EVERYTHING that's there. And Bob Kerrey took his place and say what you will about him, the Senate group of Vietnam vets stuck together.

Max Cleland went to the import/export bank. Follow the money. Something must stink there, I'd bet.

BCCI? I honestly don't know enough about it to say.

He would rip on them for as long as it took to kill them for good. And he would try not to destroy the country in the process, which some people wouldn't care about. He does.

God I'd love to see him rip into Georgie Porgie.

And the south? They respond to duty, responsibility and integrity. Sounds like the John Kerry I know.

[frank frankly]

12. thanks for the response

good info

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. correct: Garty Hart, Rand Beers, Joe Wilson, etc....

They've got W's number, and it's got some serious charges attached to it.

[blm]

17. That's the whole thing...Kerry put together the team to take down Bush.

Others put together teams to take down Kerry.

Gary Hart, Rand Beers, Joe Wilson, Gen. William Perry, and Max Cleland all have devastating info on Bush's PRE 9-11 failures, POST 9-11 failures, his weak approach to terror, his lies and coverups. These men aligned with Kerry because they know Kerry is the only one who can make that case. Kerry was a prosecutor and knows how to investigate government corruption.

Kerry was relentless on BCCI and IranContra investigations. He exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history. And he had to buck even the Dem establishment to do so.

BCCI trial started in England a few days ago. BCCI links directly to 9-11. The Bank of America/BCCI trial starts in June. BushInc. NEEDS Kerry off the national stage nefore news comes out of those trials.

[KittyWampus]

23. BCCI Was Over 10 Years Ago & Kerry Isn't Doing Much Now

Please stop with the "he's assembled a crack team" line.

If Kerry wants credit... why the HELL doesn't he hold Junior's feet to the fire the way Clark has?

Why, when Matthews asked him about O'Neill's revelation, did Kerry brush aside the question and go off on Dean?

Has Kerry fingered the PNAC crowd?

Seems to me that at this point Kerry is resting on his Laurels.

[blm]

25. Wrong. BCCI is about to rear its head again.

The trial in England started a few days ago, and the Bank of America/BCCI trial starts in June.

BCCI never went away, it was just postponed for years.

btw...during that last ten years, Kerry worked on a few issues important to the world. He spent 10 years working on Kyoto Protocol with other world leaders, and in 1997 wrote a book, The New War, which alerted people to the dangers of growing terror and its funding by international governments. He also drafted the legislation that went after banks that laundered terror funds.

On the Hardball segment, I am not sure Kerry heard the question correctly since it was so loud at the post debate locale. It certainly seems like he only heard, blah, blah...Iraq war...blah, blah. Kerry had earlier issued a very strong statement on O'Neill, so I'm not so sure he heard the question correctly. It's unlike him to pass up an opportunity like that described.

[poskonig]

16. Bush would go down on national security.

AWOL wouldn't be able to play the patriotism card against the Democrats either.

[blm]

18. Plus Kerry WROTE the prescient book on terror and its funding

by international governments in 1887 - The New War. Bush didn't read it. Too many Americans didn't read it.

[emulatorloo]

22. Go to Kerry's website and watch some of the videos

And you will see much *burning hot* and *intelligent* hammering of Bush on Iraq, Bush lies about diplomacy in IWR Bush's treatment of our allies, Bush's weakness on national security, Bush's cronyism, etc. All with alternatives and plans for what he would do.

Start w the "John Kerry on Hardball with Chris Matthews" about 6 down. Once you get past Tweety's stuff on Clark, Kerry starts on Bush domestic policies and international policies and does not let up. Some of it may be too harsh for you!

http://www.johnkerry.com/videos/

on edit -- grammar sentence structure etc

[frank frankly]

24. I'm watching it now

thanks for the link!

[frank frankly]

26. he sounds damn good

I'm warming up to Kerry for the first time since IWR.

he is brilliant

[blm]

28. He is brilliant.

He has worked on every important issue for his entire career. He is the most prepared candidate on every issue to lead the world. From DAY ONE. And there isn't a Democratic lawmaker, analyst or operative who wouldn't acknowledge that.

[frank frankly]

34. well, you and others have changed my mind.

i've been talking with my fiercely informed friends, all who loved Kerry before the IWR, and we all would consider coming back to him.

blm, how do you see a GE Kerry vs. Bush? could Kerry win the South?

[zulchzulu]

37. Kerry's military record could be a big plus in the South

Max Cleland and other prominent Southern military people are for Kerry. If he adds a Southerner to the VP ticket, he'd be strong.

Mostly I think that a lot of Southerners are tired of Bush and would cross over from their previous Reagan Democrat voting habits.

[mmonk]

27. Actually, I think he could do well

[zulchzulu]

32. So many places to attack Bush with Kerry's experience

Let's just say that there is some bad blood between the two with Kerry exposing Pappa Bush and the fellas back in the 80s. Kerry would love nothing more than to bring it all back again with questions about 911 and the way Bush lied to the World about WMDs.

Kerry is also going after Rove and the leaker in the White House who exposed Wilson's wife.

Then there's the AWOL thing. Kerry will use that and let everyone know a chickenhawk is in the White House. It will be joyous to watch. I personally gave John one of those Bush aircraft pilot dolls last weekend in Dubuque and he was absolutely laughing at the possibilities. It would make a nice prop in a debate.

Then there's the environment, how Bush lied to his face with the IWR, women's rights and abortion and on and on.

Kerry knows national security and foreign policy thoroughly and speaks in complete intelligent sentences. And he knows a lot about the full spectrum of domestic issues as well.

As Kerry says, bring it on! Not only could Kerry beat Bush, he would also make one of the best progressive presidents this country ever had.

[adadem]

41. I love it when

Kerry says "I know something about aircraft carriers". I always high-five him when he says that. It's true!!

[molly]

33. Bush's ass would be grass

and Kerry would be the lawnmower. Descriptive enough?

[adadem]

43. I visualize

Kerry's big foot squishing a roach.

[saltpoint]

38. Bush would underestimate --

-- Kerry, especially in the debates. Kerry whomped Weld in '96, and Weld was a strong, centrist Republican. Bush has alienated a larger field than Weld.

Mississippi and SW Ohio might be out of the question, but Kerry would carry NE Ohio and with it, the state. His strategy against Bush would be more aggressive than Al Gore's.

Also West Virginia would be back in the blue column.

[Leilani]

46. Isn't Kerry very anti gun?

This will be a problem in the South...

Gun issue helped defeat Al Gore..

I like Kerry, will support if nominated,

but I think Wes Clark is more electable based on the Southern thing.

[TankLV]

47. I like a lot of what Kerry has said lately, but I have this horrible

image of bunkerboy turning to him and saying something like "where's the beef?" You supported me on the IWR, you supported me on so many rose garden photo ops. Just why are you running against me again?

Maybe Kerry can turn it around on him, but he doesn't appear to be quick on his feet like Clark or Dean. He'd better learn to be quick witted, ready with the sound bites, and ready to defend his support for bunkerboy on so many critical issues.

He has not responded to all bunkerboy lies with deftness. In fact he's let a lot slide.

I just hope whomever wins the nom can assemble all the other candidates' staffs and candidates themselves into the biggest coordinated attack machine on bunkerboy that the world has ever witnessed, and nevee let up.

But then again, I'm plenty angry and I'm tired of playing "nice".

My 2 cents.

[formernaderite]

42. Kerry would do very well

First off, I'm a Dean supporter and very much like Kucinich...but I think Kerry would actually do very well against Bush. Joe Q public would perceive him as very statesmanlike. I have my own issues with Kerry, but out of the other candidates I would probably feel most comfortable with him as the nominee.

[frank frankly]

44. I second that

I love Dean and don't like him being bashed. I will always love Dean for attacking BushCo.

But, like others, I'm worried he could lose.

We can't lose.

Kerry couldn't lose.
Clark couldn't lose.

It's all wide open for me now...