Breaking: Clark praising Bush as recently as November 2003!

[robbedvoter]

On Face the nation he said:

"I'm not running to bash George Bush. A lot of americans really love him. They love what he represents, a man who has overcome adversity in his life from alcoholism and pulled his marriage back together and moved forward."

[Maddy McCall]

1. That's diplomacy at it's finest: a complimentary insult of bush

Nothing wrong with that!

[robbedvoter]

7. Thanks. It's called damning with faint praise - and he used it before

So, maybe people here can get it. I was afraid we are lost.
After reading too much DU, a Clark supporter asked Clark anxiously in a conference call: "do you think you are too intellectual for the voters?"
Clark: "No. I think Americans are ready for a president that reads"

[Maddy McCall]

14. LOL! He is brilliant.

Witty too! :-)

[wtmusic]

17. There is nothing faintly insulting about the quote

But read into it whatever you like...

:eyes:

[mmonk]

18. Ask bush's base

of fundamentalists.

[wtmusic]

20. Can I ask you instead?

What is it that's insulting about the quote?

[mmonk]

26. Nothing from a purely semantic point

That's the point. If Clark mentioned that bush has had a drinking problem and a marriage problem, but he's overcome it now, they would howl foul. But since it was done tactfully with the same info, they must sit smiling while fuming inside. It would make no difference to me since I don't judge people on personal matters someone has struggled with. But many of bush's supporters do judge people that way.

[wtmusic]

29. sheesh

'they must sit smiling while fuming inside'. Boy, I'd be fuming if I read that about me...

:eyes:

[mmonk]

32. and it was done in the context

of that's what they like about him:-)

[wtmusic]

33. Logic is not winning here

I'll be the first to admit that Dean supporters often see their candidate through rose-colored glasses, but...

There is nothing insulting about the quote, and if you want to talk about context--it seems like they relate a lot more to Clark's infamous Repub fundraiser comments than any imagined insult. IMO it will be a big problem if Clark is the nominee.

[windansea]

35. see post 21 n/t

[mmonk]

36. He was asked on face the nation

and it was a good response that didn't address bush policy. It made the policy as something that wasn't the reason he is liked.

[Maddy McCall]

50. It was the most brilliantly constructed Bush insult I have yet seen in any

campaign. I could have spent months trying to come up with one that effective! And he delivered it smoothly, right off the cuff. He is a diplomat, and a clever one at that.

:-)

[wtmusic]

52. fine then

but I must just not be clever enough to see the insult. Point it out to me, please?

[WillyBrandt]

56. Very simple--on the face of it, it sounds nice

But it reminds people that he is a drunk and a shitty husband.

Imagine if someone said about X, "Oh, X is a real great guy: not everybody can get over a bestiality addiction like he can."

Or, "She's really pretty, especially now that all those pimples are gone."

Superficially it's nice. But it's an obvious and nasty slap. Likewise with Clark's comment re Awol.

[Maddy McCall]

63. LOL! Bestiality addiction...

That is the funniest damned thing I have read all day! LOL!!! :-)

[mikehiggins]

71. Logic, Mr. Spock? Things are not always logical.

Did you know that Bush had a serious problem with drinking?

Did you know that Bush had a serious problem with his marriage?

You do now. So do a lot of people who had no idea, who thought Dubya was this nice sort of befuddled guy next door.There's an awful lot about Dubya's history the general public doesn't know.

It's great that he beat the problem, so far as we know, but then again, he did it by finding Jesus, Who is, of course, Dubya's favorite philosopher.

I don't look at Clark through rose-colored glasses, wt, but that mild exchange made me sit up and pay attention. You can think it was a compliment but there are a lot of us recovering alcoholics (you never get cured, you know) in the world who know exactly what was being said and exactly what was being implied. It was a nasty little zinger and made me feel, for the first time, that Clark was going to prove to be Rove's worst nightmare.

Just my opinion, of course, but if you missed the point of what Clark said, you can be sure the White House didn't.

[Jack_Dawson]

57. Backhanded Genius

Deftly linking Bush to alcoholism and marriage problems is just smart politics. Calling it "praise" is a real reach.

[maddezmom]

2. listened to him on CSPAN Radio

I remember what a hub-bub it caused at DU! :)

[Shrek]

3. I'm not sure I'd classify that as "praise" for Bush

Seems like nothing more than an observation to me. Note that he's simply saying what a lot of Americans feel; he's not necessarily endorsing those feelings.

[bigwillq]

5. I agree, not a bash to me.

[mmonk]

4. A tasteful

dis

[MoonRiver]

6. I see that statement as an example of how gracious Clark is,

even toward those with whom he has deep disagreements.

[wtmusic]

8. Bush overcoming adversity? Thatsalaugh

* wouldn't know adversity if it kicked him in the ass

[davidinalameda]

9. it's called a back handed compliment

my mother is the best at them

[wtmusic]

15. What's backhanded about it?

:shrug:

[dviper]

22. it is a subtle note that

he is no longer a drunk, that he almost lost his marriage because of it, and the only thing to admire is that he sobered up and saved his marriage.

[wtmusic]

23. welcome to DU dviper

:bounce: :toast: :bounce:

although "the only thing to admire" is all yours. Whatever...

[dviper]

28. I was reading deeply between the lines!!!

:7

[wtmusic]

30. Well dive in

and enjoy yourself then...

[funky_bug]

72. Bingo

You nailed, it! That was going to be my response as well.

[southpaw72]

10. damning with faint praise

Actually this gives me more respect for Clark's wit.

Besides -- I think the candidates have to be very careful NOT to "bash Bush." Bash his policies, yes. But avoid personal attacks. The press lets repukes get away with it but not Democrats.

[AntiCoup2K4]

11. Of all the "pro Bush" statements Clark has made...

...that's the one I'm not at all worried about. Even I would congratulate Junior for overcoming alcoholism and I hate the son of a bitch.

[Scoopie]

16. Well, at least Clark doesn't think that Shrub

will be a two-term president.
O8)

[AntiCoup2K4]

37. Ah, but he apparently DOES think that PNAC is "a great team"

whom "we need" in Washington :D

[bowens43]

40. If Clark gets the nomination

he won't have to say it, he'll ensure it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. Yup. Remember at the time that some saw it as a graceful warning

Bush has dirt in his past. Clark signals he prefers the high road but keeps a map of the the low road in his glove compartment.

[Maddy McCall]

47. He was exposing the hypocrisy of the Repub "Family Values" monopolization

The party of "family values" has at its head an alcoholic near-divorcee. Pretty clever of Clark if you ask me. :-)

[lancdem]

13. LOL!

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. hehe

Throw in a little (truth) alcoholism, marriage problems and mix it with statements like.."A lot of americans really love him." and "I'm not running to bash Bush"....how can one find fault with that? You get the point across in a round about way without REALLY bashing the chimp. :) KKKRove must be shaking in his boots right about now. :bounce:

[windansea]

21. very smart of Clark

and true..lots of Americans do love Bush

sometimes a soft touch is the best way to win over moderates

Of course Clark has also delived some nice hard uppercuts to chimpy's chin!!

[wtmusic]

38. disagree

If Clark wants to reinforce a bandwagon mentality that's a major mistake. I'm not on Bush's bandwagon and I don't want to be anywhere close to it. He's losing the base.

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[The Magistrate]

55. The Base, Mr. Music, Should Energize Itself

It can hardly be regarded as a base if it does not do so, but rather more as a specific interest group, that requires cossetting and pandering if it is to slouch to the polls after all.

All persons of left and progressive sentiments ought to be fired and eager to turn out against the reactionary criminals of the '00 Coup and drive them from office in the upcoming election, even if the candidate on offer is, as they used to say, a damned yeller dawg.

Cadre must show self-discipline, and do what it knows has to be done to break the most reactionary elements of our polity, rather than sulk like Achilles in his tent over whether they have been scratched just right behind the ears. Those who adopt that course ought to simply apply a towel behind the ears, dry off behind them, and do what has to be done, without complaint....

[wtmusic]

59. like your style

but on substance, well...

I will never accept the premise of someone else telling me to 'do what has to be done'. What has to be done is what's right. And if it doesn't come down in this election, it will in the next, or the next, or the next.

[Maddy McCall]

66. You are probably right

Clark 04
Clark 08
Edwards or (fingers crossed) Hillary Clinton '12

[The Magistrate]

74. Well, Mr. Music

What is right is to strike the most effective possible blow against the most reactionary elements of our polity.

It should not be necessary to tell people who consider themselves politically engaged and knowledgeable this: they should understand it on their own, and act accordingly.

It is not so clear to me, by the way, that if we fail in this effort this year, there will be election after election in future in which the loss can be recouped. These reptiles are about disregarding the people's will, and cannot be allowed to solidify their ill-gotten hold on office in our country, or we will find ourselves in a land very different from that we were born into....

[chookie]

24. Wes recognises a "dry drunk"

I recall that he said this same thing during one of the debates.

It needs to be said. It's great that Pickles got the chimp off the sauce, because it sounds as though he was pretty out of control -- but the guy is hardly rehabilitated, at least in my view. I don't think you can call substituting one addiction for another a cure. His obsession with fundamentalist Christianity and other utter certainties clouds his judgement as surely as booze did. Luckily for him, he is sociopathic, because if he were not, the pressures of the presidency would be a torment.

[madrchsod]

25. that`s the difference between

class and no class.

[Renew Deal]

27. We should all send this to Drudge.

WORLD EXCLUSIVE

Clark complements Bush.

[ClarkGraham2004]

31. GOTTA LOVE WES!

:)

[wtmusic]

34. No, actually, you don't

This is another example of Wes sucking up to try to pull in Repub votes. I can't aspire any nobility to this play at all.

[mmonk]

39. This is about winning an election

answering a question on why bush is popular by a reporter. So what do you think an appropriate response on national TV would be (remembering you're not at a democratic pep rally)?

[wtmusic]

41. Winning an election

can be done without complimenting your opponent </sarcasm>.

[mmonk]

48. sorry

not biting.

[bowens43]

43. To some , that's all that is important.

To others there is much more at stake.

[Tom Rinaldo]

54. Even if you do not see the irony in Clark's statement

And even if you don't see how this was a incredibly smooth and skillful way for Clark to slip in a contrast between Bush's wasted decade and Clark's service to his country, tell me this.

Taken only on its face, what is wrong about complimenting someone for overcoming alcoholism and/or taking the steps necessary to save his marriage?


If you think that is bad politics, well I respectfully disagree. However even if it WERE bad politics, it IS the appropriate humane response to praise anyone for overcoming private demons that were destroying their life and hurting those closest to them. I am a Democrat. I will never disavow that type of sentiment.

[Maddy McCall]

42. Yeah, highlighting Bush's history of alcoholism and near-divorce is really

kissing up to the Republicans. :eyes:

[wtmusic]

44. Gee, I thought he was highlighting Bush's triumph in dealing with it

:eyes: yourself!

[WillyBrandt]

58. "I really admire Dean's ability to deal with blacks and Hispanics

After not having to for so long in lily-white Vermont."

Is that a compliment, or a slap?

[wtmusic]

64. Morning Willy

:-)

You're a smart guy and I know you can create a better analogy than that...

[Name removed]

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[WillyBrandt]

67. C'mon--it's really obvious!

It's a slap. Check the two I added way above in the thread.

[wtmusic]

68. My glasses are going bad

and must leave. cyalater :-)

[WillyBrandt]

69. Take Care! And enjoy the long weekend!

[bain_sidhe]

70. But, IIRC, the quote was in answer to the question

about Bush's popularity. So not only does he raise the issue of Bush's past alchoholism and marital troubles, he implies that overcoming them is the ONLY reason "a lot of people love bush."

Smart man, that Wesley Clark.

[andym]

49. Clark's subtlety is what's needed to criticize Bush

The typical apolitical citizen thinks Bush is an honorable
man, and it takes the kind of subtle praise that actually raises
alarm to effectively question this. Outright attacks made by all the candidates will not succeed with these people, at least not without proof (treasongate blowing up in *'s face would be good for example).

See my thread about "painting":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=61185

And also see how Marc Antony turned the mob against Brutus and the "heroic" conspirators:

Here he is praising Brutus in front of the mob with Brutus present:

"...When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honorable man...."

(yeah right)

So he was praising Brutus wasn't he?

[WillyBrandt]

60. Clark came not to praise Bush, but to bury him

I mean, it's so frigging obvious! Cripes!

[John_H]

61. Uh......didn't you leave something out?

Accidentally I'm sure. Clark's stump usually includes the lines: I'm not running to bash Bush, I'm running to replace him."

Just because Dean called Bush a moderate and predicted he'd win two terms, do you have to take Clark quotes out of context?

[WillyBrandt]

65. Read the post again... n/t

[robbedvoter]

73. And now, the PAY OFF: the NY Post headline he generated:

WES DIGS UP BUSH'S BATTLE WITH BOTTLE
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/11659.htm
By VINCENT MORRIS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Email  Archives
 Print  ReprintNovember 24, 2003 -- WASHINGTON - Democratic
presidential wannabe Gen. Wesley Clark said yesterday that Americans
admire President Bush because of the way he overcame "alcoholism" and
salvaged his marriage by sobering up.

The blunt comments from Clark on a seldom-raised subject came as he
tried to explain his dismay with Bush's re-election strategy - which
critics say exploits lingering 9/11 fears.

"I'm not running to bash George Bush. A lot of Americans really love
him," said Clark.

"They love what he represents, a man who's overcome adversity in his
life from alcoholism and pulled his marriage back together and moved
forward," added Clark.

Although Bush has always refused to discuss his years of excessive
drinking, he occasionally refers to it as a dark chapter in his life.
He cites First Lady Laura Bush, along with religion and the birth of
his twin daughters, as factors that led him to swear off alcohol.

But Bush's drinking is almost never mentioned by his opponents and Vice
President Al Gore refused to make it an issue during the 2000 election.

Clark, speaking on CBS's "Face the Nation," accused Bush of
"exploiting] 9/11" with new political ads paid for by the Republican
National Committee that highlight the president's anti-terror efforts.

As you can see, NY Post(Rupert Murdoch), HAD TO REPORT THIS STRAIGHTCurses, foiled again!
Unspinnable. Thanks for playing.