What do the DLC, the Washington Establishment, and Rupert Murdoch all

[mzmolly]

have in common???

They are relieved to see that the status quo in Washington may remain in tact.

Thankfully the Democrats may elect a *safe* candidate instead of that little guy that threatens to really change America for good. *phew*

Just remember we all had our chance for a real change, and some of us passed on it. Pity I think. :hi:

I remain hopeful that voters will come to their senses in the end. :)

[Democrats unite]

1. I am so happy to say I contribute to the DLC

And will continue to do so & when people learn excatley what the DLC is & don't discount them, they will be much better off.

Long live the DLC! ALso trying to tie them to Rupert Murdoch, never worked & never will. Maybe next time people will try a new stratedgy that is not so vitriol.

[mzmolly]

3. Watching Bruce Reed on Faux news slam Dean the other day

is where the *tie in* came up.

I know many good Dems belong to the DLC, but they *the DLC* have no business slamming Dems in a primary and they have slammed Dean. I'd say they share a goal with Mr. Murdoch.

[w4rma]

4. The DLC called me a "Fringe Activist". I won't support that divisive group

Dean Statement in Response to DLC's Charge that Public Servants are "Fringe Activists"

“Once again, the DLC has chosen to put their own political agenda ahead of the progress needed to unite the Democratic Party. This election has barely begun, and the DLC has repeatedly dismissed people who attend caucuses, who get out the vote, and now the 1.3 million members of AFSCME as ‘fringe activists’ who do not reflect ‘the mainstream values, national pride and the economic aspirations of middle-class and working people.’

“The DLC staff can say what they want about me, but they owe an apology to the 1.3 million members of AFSCME. Our teachers, our health care workers, and our state and local public servants don't need a lesson from Washington insiders about the needs and concerns of middle- and working-class families. What they need is a Democratic Party that will stand up for them.”

Posted by Mathew Gross at 04:27 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000206.html

Tell From and Reed of the DLC What You Think
Click here to sign a letter to the Democratic Leadership Council telling them that you're an active Democrat who supports Howard Dean. You can tell your friends about the link, too: www.deanforamerica.com/DLC

Posted by Mathew Gross at 01:29 AM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000240.html

Fineman on the DLC Memo
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000213.html

Former DNC-Chief Steve Grossman to DLC: "Creating Conflict is Not Leadership."
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000225.html

Liberal Oasis on Howard Dean and the DLC
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000226.html

Will the Real DLC Please Stand Up?
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000228.html

Congressional Members Call on DLC to Stop Divisive Tactics
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000238.html

Activists Are Out of Step
By Al From and Bruce Reed
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251866&kaid=85&subid=65

The Real Soul of the Democratic Party
By Al From and Bruce Reed
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251690&kaid=127&subid=900056

[Eloriel]

29. More info -- for those who still don't get it about the DLC

What every DUer and every Dem needs to know about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4443&forum=DCForumID22&archive=

Let's be REALLY honest about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23262&forum=DCForumID60&archive=

[PassingFair]

42. Stand Fast, gang.

Hold the line.

I have seen Reed "advocating" the dem position with creeps from the American Enterprise Institute. He's so oily he literally slid to their side of the table.

Keep up with the phone calls, we have the numbers. Right now they have so much spin they'll be retching too hard to find the caucus sights.

[jonnyblitz]

7. I will never forget seeing Al From and Newt Gingrich on CSPAN

together bashing Dean. I will never forget Al From praising Newt. That was when my support for Dean was cemented more solidly. I have nothing but contempt for the DLC and everything it stands for.

[HFishbine]

8. DLC: The Republican Wing of the Democratic Party?

Form Wednesday's Inside Politics on CNN. In an interview with Iowa voters, one had this to say.
----------------

MICHAEL EIVINS, 42, TEAMSTER: I got a -- I'm probably the most (UNINTELLIGIBLE) beyond Howard Dean. I think there's been a lot about the anger and the divisiveness sometimes. I think Howard Dean has brought the divisiveness to this. And my heart just starts to race when I hear -- I'm from the Democratic wing of the party. And I'm part of the DLC. I contribute there. And that's the Republican part of the party.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0401/15/ip.00.html

[formernaderite]

16. I recall murdoch actually endorsed Gore

Okay...I'm looking for the link I saved back in 2000. But I remember Murdoch endorsing Gore for President. I know, he owns fox etc...but above all he's a businessman in business to make money. His endorsement was a pragmatic view of the economy. Anyone else remember this? None of the papers made much of it...probably because it was embarassing to Bush.

[maddezmom]

26. I don't remember that

did you find a link? :)

[worldgonekrazy]

38. Not a sentiment you hear expressed often on DU

I don't know. I'm a little conflicted about the DLC. On the one hand they did get us a Democratic President for 8 years, the first to be re-elected since FDR (if only because he wasn't whacked). But they also lost the House and the Senate because they don't seem to stand for a damn thing.

[AntiCoup2K4]

2. Fuck the DLC

The fascist neocon bastards have already ruined the Republican party. They can't have the Democratic Party :grr:

[Bread and Roses]

5. The only candidate who

threatens to really change America for good is Kucinich. You are correct in that he will not be elected.

[mzmolly]

6. I disagree, Kucinich has *visions* not plans.

Dennis envisions a better America, HD has the plans and know how to get us there.

[returnable]

9. Say what?

Kucinich doesn't have plans?

That's not true.

You may not agree with him, but to say he doesn't have plans is false.

Why must folks continue to run down other candidates just to prop up their own? :shrug:

[mzmolly]

20. See post # 5

:hi:

I agree, why must folks continue to run down other candidates to prop their own?

[Bread and Roses]

33. Sorry I didn't make myself clear:

Kucinich is not my candidate and I certainly didn't intend to run down another candidate, presumably Dean?

Just calling 'em as I see 'em.

[corporatewhore]

13. While dean has plans kucinich has a solid record on fighting

the status quo

[mzmolly]

23. Allow me to clarify.

1. I didn't bring Dennis into this conversation
2. He's not a serious contender for the white house
3. This thread isn't about him

[BJ]

10. Wonder why Tom Harkin's endorsing Dean?

Because he doesn't belong to the DLC!

[mzmolly]

12. I wasn't referring to every member of the DLC. I voted for Clinton ok?

I was referring to Al From and Bruce Reed *who apparently had no impact on Mr. Harkins wise decision to back Howard Dean*

[Bombtrack]

17. No you weren't referrring to them

if you want to refur to them, refur to them

But you're just continuing to regurgitate the BS propaganda manufactured by the Dean campaign to separate Dean, one DLC governor of an eency weency state, from DLC congresspeople who he's running against

[mzmolly]

21. See post #4. And then find me one shred of evidence that the DLC

has done this to the other candidates. Before you call something propaganda it's good to get the facts.

[corporatewhore]

11. I still dont get it

Deans record in vermont has been oh so DLC and establishment he even said he was a strong supporter of nafta but now he is taking it on and to borrow a phrase from another person the Che Guvera of park ave that just really gets me i mean its ok that he has that record i just bothers me to know end when people start praising him as our liberal champion

[mzmolly]

15. Actually if you watched the scandalous *tapes* on Dean they revealed

that Dean had reservations about NAFTA from the beginning.

Dean was probably a member of the DLC, but they have actively campaigned against him, thus my disgust.

This isn't about whether or not Dean is a "pragmatist" which he is, it's about the DLC's contempt for Dean.

Do see w4rma's post on this subject.

[Bombtrack]

14. The GOP establishment and the Dean-supporters want the exact same thing

for Howard Dean to be nominated in the coming months.

They want a different thing in November, but that isn't the issue

[mzmolly]

18. Really, can you explain the negativity about Dean in the media and the

*fund for growth ads* targeting Dean and only Dean? Can you explain why Faux news bashes him on a nightly basis? Can you explain the polls that show Dean leading across the nation and standing up to Bush in a head to head match up?

You've got ZERO evidence for your assertion, I've got lots for mine.

[worldgonekrazy]

39. Have you got a link for that?

From the new rules:

8. If you make a factual assertion about a candidate that is not generally accepted to be true, you must provide a link to a reputable source to back up your claim. Allegedly "innocent" questions which are actually an underhanded effort to spread rumors are not allowed. If you really need to know the answer to your question, try Google.

[blm]

19. Kerry is the ONE man who EXPOSED the MOST government corruption

including the established powerstructures in BOTH parties and the establishment has never forgiven him. Even Gore wouldn't back up Kerry while he was trying to expose BCCI and IranContra.

The establishment wasn't too crazy about Kerry's 10 year efforts on the Kyoto Protocol, either.

To pretend that Dean is the anti-establishment candidate is absurd, because when Dean WAS IN POWER, he governed as a cautious, compromising centrist who often aligned with the Republicans and AGAINST the progressive Democrats there.

How many people are REALLY snowed by his Elmer Gantry type rhetoric that doesn't MATCH his actual 11 year record as governor?

Can you please explain how Kerry's 30 year efforts against the establishment and exposing government corruption and the BFEE are somehow diminished by Dean's 1 yr. old populist campaign rhetoric?

[mzmolly]

22. Pretending? See post #4.

And explain why the DLC has such contempt for Dean?

I dont dislike JK, I'd rather support him then Gep or Clark. I'm not here to trash John Kerry.

[blm]

30. Not the point, is it? Explain how Kerry's the establishment to YOU

which is obvious in your original post.

What in his 30+ year record shows him to be establishment and what in Dean's 11 year centrist record shows him to be anti-establishment?

[mzmolly]

31. The only ones who aren't establishment to ME are Dean and Clark

I prefer Dean, and I don't think I'll vote for Clark.

Do you have a problem with the word *establishment* BLM?

Here is a simple explaination:

"A group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society."

Dean is of the Vermont establishment, Kerry is of the Washington establishment.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=establishment

[blm]

41. Then you don't know the truth about Kerry.

The ESTABLISHMENT turned its back on Kerry when he investigated and exposed their entrenched power system in BCCI. More of which will become evident as the BCCI trial in England began this week. They never forgave him.

If the ESTABLISHMENT was really behind Kerry, they would have coalesced behind him EARLY. They did not and instead divided up between the candidates, including Dean, as much as you'd like to pretend that isn't so. AIPAC advisors? Toby Moffett?

Dean was a main character in pulling the party to the right throughout his governorship. Thankfully there were other Democrats like Wellstone, Kennedy and Kerry who were pulling back for the left, or we'd be in serious centrist hell by now.

[mzmolly]

46. Puhleeze, Dean Governor of Vermont was now a puppet master for the

right? This gets better and better LOL.

What a gas. Thanks for the chuckle.

[PassingFair]

43. What in his 30+ year record shows him to be establishment?

How about authorizing the Anglo-American Invasion of Iraq.
How about facilitating the Patriot Acts?
How about pretending that the Veterans for Peace still return his phone calls.
He rolled. He will continue to roll. Half of our Senators held the line, why didn't Kerry?

[Eloriel]

36. Hey, blm

Can you please explain how Kerry's 30 year efforts against the establishment and exposing government corruption and the BFEE are somehow diminished by Dean's 1 yr. old populist campaign rhetoric?

It's called an election, not an awards ceremony.

It's about the future, not the past.

It's about who WILL DO BETTER leading the country, not how many bonus points they got for past performance.

Kerry has done some good things in his career. Unfortunately, the attitude that you -- and he -- hold that he is therefore somehow "owed" or entitled to the nomination just doesn't match the reality of the situation.

If that were the case, they could all just circulate their resumes, eh?

[blm]

37. And Dean's rhetoric doesn't match the REALITY of his 11yr. record.

YOU may be happy rewarding the prodigal son who didn't do the heavy lifting for years that others did.

I always thought that story was unfair and promoted those less deserving for their recent conversion over those who actually performed the hard tasks.

[John_H]

24. Transparent Dean Strategy fools.....who?

Any democrat who understands that Dean will supply Chimp with a mandate is an "establishment" Dem afraid of the "power of the people."

This transparent strategy may work on people zealous about howard dean, but check the polls: It ain't working on rank and file democrats.

But hey,as a Clark supporter, I say keep on keepin' on.

[mzmolly]

25. The strategy that is working is that of the DLC. see post # 4

Keep on keepin on is what your willing to do apparently. :beer:

[democratreformed]

27. The Myth of the Democratic Establishment

Here: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0401.confessore.html

[mzmolly]

28. I am a Democrat tried and true. Voted Dem for the last 20 years

and I am fully aware Washington is a *good ol' boy network* to the highest degree.

Al From and Bruce Reed have actively campaigned *AGAINST* one of our Democratic candidates. It's an outrage.

[sandnsea]

32. Issues and actions

That is what's important. I am sick of these completely vague claims that mean absolutely nothing and substitute real debate with attacks camoflauged as issues. When Dean gets a DLC or Establishment endorsement it's heralded and of course, it's somehow different. This is a phony issue. No Democratic candidate has voted exactly the same on every issue in Washington. There is no way to put any of them in a box and slap on a lable.

Dean is the most status quo candidate I've ever seen. I have never seen him go against the flow and really take a leadership role on anything. He's a compromiser.

If you want change, get the candidate who actually leads. The one who comes out first on the issues, not 10 years later when it's politically safe. The one who stays consistent on the issues and doesn't suddenly become enlightened during an election year. Get the one who proves he wants change because he puts together a plan to empower communities and individuals from the ground up. I want change. I'm tired of status quo. I'm tired of energizing campaigns. I'm tired of phony movements. I'm tired of false promises. I want John and Teresa Kerry who actually have the ideas and the life-affirming inspiration to really change the country and the world.

[Bread and Roses]

34. You got that right.

eom

[edzontar]

40. I think it is time that Kerry and Dean supporters got together...

We are closer than we usually let on here.

Kerry was my choice until I was disappointed by his IWR vote and poor debate appearances.

But he has a solid record as a veteran, peace activist, and advocate for progressive causes in the Senate

Dean has run a phenomenal campaign. He has energized a dispritited base and attracted legions of new voters.

He has given the party a new sense of mission and a new voice of authority and conviction, for which everyone here should thank him.

But now there is a new and very uncertain face in the scene--one whose campaign threatens disunity and catastrophic defeat in the general election.

That is the campaign of General Clark.

My sincerest hope is that Kerry and Dean will emerge as the victors in IA, and then move on to stop the Clark campaign in its tracks, in the snows of Iowa.

Then we can finally see a ghenuine New England Democratic race between two distinguished leaders of our party:

Kerry and Dean.

[mzmolly]

44. Status quo is kissing Bush's ass at war time.

That's status quo. To say Dean hasn't stood up for anything is a joke. Dean stood against the war when 75% of the population was against it. John Kerry is STILL playing both sides of that issue depending on what audience he is speaking to.

Talk about status quo? :eyes:

Dean doesn't fit into the *box* defined by Washington Politics.

"He's to far left." Oh no wait! "He's to far right." LOL

Sorry, Dean is not an idealogue, which is all the more reason he appeals to me. His issues are clearly defined, and his record in Vermont is sound. He was elected 5 times in this liberal state. I'd say he did something right.

Empty promises are not what Howard Dean is about.

And, if your confused about where he stands on the issues see here.

www.deanforamerica.com
Click on "issues"

"John and Terry?" Last time I checked Terry wasn't running for office.

[mzmolly]

45. Do check out Kerry's position on gutting the agriculture Department

*ten* years ago. I wonder if he's flip flopped on that one?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

35. Clark supporter here! DLC=GOP-lite! They shamfully assaulted Dean...

just because he has a different point of view. The DLC is the Devil!

[AntiCoup2K4]

47. That's an insult....

...to the Devil :evilfrown: