Questions About General Clark's Military Records

[Hoppin_Mad]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but although 180 carefully selected pages from Wes Clark's voluminous military personal file (which does not incude evaluations from after Clark reached 3 star status) were released in October 2003 . . .

Many more of George 'AWOL' Bush's Miltary records are publically avilable online

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm

Than those of General Clark !

http://www.clark04.com/records/documents/

Why IS that ?

Where ARE they ?

[Skwmom]

1. Evaluations stop after so many stars. e/o/m

[Torgo4]

27. OERs Stop After Major General (2 stars)

Officer Efficiency Reports cease after 2 stars according to AR 600-whatever.

I don't know how they track it after that.

[MidwestTransplant]

2. You nailed him!

Actually you didn't! :) After you reach a certain level (probably Lt. Gen or 3 Star), you no longer receive written evaluations. That's why they aren't there.

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. Darn! Blew that bash to hell!

OK, next bash. Bring it on!

Go, Wes!

[Mattforclark]

5. lol

[xultar]

32. I love that pic in your sig. That is a Presidential Couple!

[Democrats unite]

4. But I am still waiting for the Records in Vermont...

to be released. Is the suppose to deflect this issue?

[bowens43]

7. So Dean should open up

while Clark doesn't? We need to see his entire record. Everything that pertains to his military career. Memo's, written opinions etc. Where is it?

[Renew Deal]

11. Show me who says anything is missing

Outside of this thread.

[lurk_no_more]

39. Call the Pentagon

and say please, they have his records, everything he released is what he has.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[Renew Deal]

9. This is correct

Another scandal averted. Hey, It was worth a shot.

:toast:

[Hoppin_Mad]

6. Where are the records ? (not evaluations which stop at 2 stars)-nt-

[SahaleArm]

14. Since there are no eval records after 2*, which ones are you looking for?

Dental, Medical, Driving?

[Tinoire]

47. They're at the Pentagon. I'm sure u'll be hearing plenty about them soon

n/t

[Walt Starr]

8. Since General Clark is demanding Dean release his records

I think maybe he should release his records first (not evaluations which stop after a couple of stars).

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. This is a repeat.

He HAS opened his records. Start digging. There out there somewhere. He opened his records and called for everyone else to follow suit.

[Hoppin_Mad]

12. Are you categorically stating that ALL of Clark's Military File

has been released, and is open to public scrutiny ?

[Dookus]

13. everything that is within his control, yes

[Hoppin_Mad]

15. He should ask a judge to decide on releasing the sealed records

Just like Dean.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoppin_Mad]

21. How is this NOT a personal insult ?

Forbidden under the new rules

" You should do what your Avatar suggests " ?

[SW FL Dem]

29. Unlike Dean's records,

access to Clark's records may be limited because of national security issues. He is not in control of access to such records and no judge can force the release of documents that are sealed for national security reasons

[MidwestTransplant]

16. Do you honestly believe

the DOD would allow him to release that info. Notes pertaining to military planning and tactics, etc. etc.

I don't imagine he would want to either....National Security.

[edzontar]

17. This is outrageous--Clark demands Dean's records...

But conceals his own!!!

What hypocrisy!!!

[wyldwolf]

20. Read the above responses

Clark isn't concealing anything.

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Go to Clark's "Reading Room"

and read anything and everything you want to read. It's all OPEN. If you REALLY care, you will do that.

I'm not sure where it is, Arkansas, maybe?

Howard Dean! UNSEAL THOSE RECORDS!

Go, Wes!

[Dookus]

23. Where's the hypocrisy?

Clark opened his PRIVATE records today.

Dean's PUBLIC records are still hidden.

How can Dean plausibly ask for the Cheney energy meeting files while his own are still locked?

[mikehiggins]

35. Just what records is Clark supposed to be concealing? Do YOU know of any?

What is outrageous is the way in which people conduct themselves on issues like this.

We know Dean has sealed records of his administration in Vermont. What records do YOU know of that Clark supposedly sealed or hid?

Do YOU have ANY evidence to back up such a claim?

Then why make it?

[lurk_no_more]

42. Dean demands bush's records

But conceals his own!!!

What hypocrisy!!!

Oh that's right bush's are open, and dean said he'd open his if bush did, but dean still has his sealed....Why is that do you suppose?

Open your records howard.



And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[wyldwolf]

19. What else can I say that hasn't already been said in this thread...

You're trying to deflect a real issue (Dean's sealed records) with a made-up one (Clarks "missing" (not!) records.)

[Hoppin_Mad]

24. Fact - More of Bush's records are available to me than Clark's -nt

[Dookus]

25. Can you tell us specifically

which records within Clark's control he hasn't released?

[Hoppin_Mad]

31. I'd like to see his papers regarding Kososvo

Specfically in regards to this allegation.

  "I'm not going to start the third world war for you," General Sir Mike Jackson, commander of the international KFOR peacekeeping force, is reported to have told Gen. Clark when he refused to accept an order to send assault troops to prevent Russian troops from taking over the airfield of Kosovo's provincial capital. The Times of Londonreported on 23 May 2001 in an article titled, "Kosovo clash of allied generals," that "General Sir Michael Jackson told that he would have to resign if he refused to obey an order by the American commander of Nato's forces during the Kosovo war to stop the Russians from seizing control of Pristina airport in June 1999."

If General Clark had had his way, we might have gone to war with Russia, or at least resurrected vestiges of the Cold War and we certainly would have had hundreds if not thousands of casualties in an ill-conceived ground war "  

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jatras12.html

All records regarding Clark's actions in Kosovo have been released ? Can I expect them to appear on Clark 04 in the next few days ?

[Dookus]

33. Yes...

every record within his control has been released. Per CNN today:

'Clark's reading room'
The general is kicking back, unveiling what aides call "Clark's reading room" this morning at the Sheraton Four Points Hotel in Manchester. The room will feature hundreds of documents from the general's past, which aides have previously made available to journalists.

Clark's room will include:

• His military records, some 290 pages of his entire military personnel file. Nothing will be redacted except his Social Security number.

• His tax returns from the last five years.

• His speaking fees.

• His personal financial disclosures.

• His voter registration in Arkansas.

Clark will speak briefly at the Sheraton about the dangers of executive secrecy, we're told, and refer explicitly to the Bush administration's penchant for privacy. Aides claim their stunt isn't designed to contrast Clark with Dean and his Vermont administration's sealed records. Not at all. But then, they don't have to. We just did it for them.

****************************************

As you may recall, WWIII did not occur in 1999. Jackson was wrong, Clark was right.

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. Go to Arkansas

if you want to read his records. They are there for the reading. Somehow I DOUBT you really care enough to put yourself in the car a drive to Little Rock. Just a guess.

Let us know when you get back from Arkansas, I'm anxious to hear about what you read.

[Hoppin_Mad]

40. Isn't the reading room in Manchester ? -nt-

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. I don't know, is it?

If it's in Manchester, go there! Read the papers. Let us know when you get back!

I just ASSUMED it was Little Rock...could be Manchester. :shrug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. The "Reading Room" is in NH.

Have a nice trip Hoppin_Mad! Be sure to let us know when you get back!

[xultar]

38. Those aren't his papers they are NATOs papers! Send a letter to them

asking them to release them.

Clark is highly respected internationally. People outside of the US wonder why we aren't rallying behind him. I've had many people from other countries tell me that he is loved for what he did to stop the killing to the Albanians. They would have liked to see him command NATO forces to stop the killing in Rwanda.

What is it that you are looking for? You wanna know if he is an alien and his family is watching the Mars rover from their front porch? That he has a black child somewhere? If he is kin to Castro? Let's narrow it down to specifics. I'll try my best to find the records you are looking for.

[Hoppin_Mad]

41. Maybe a judge should review them for release ? Has Clark asked ?

[wyldwolf]

26. Fact - Bush has more records than Clark

Here's another fact - all records Clark can release on his own have been released.

Can Dean say the same?

[Hoppin_Mad]

34. They're not 'Deans' to release - They belong to the state of VT

Just as many records concerning Clark's military career belong the the US gov.

No difference

[Dookus]

36. There's a huge difference...

Dean, while governor, instituted an unprecedented seal on these records. He has the power, himself, to release them all tomorrow. He refuses to do so.

Clark does NOT have any power to compel the DOD to release records. Dean DOES have the power (to quote his tagline) but refuses to use it.

[wyldwolf]

43. No, actually, they don't

See, Dean specifically arranged for them to be sealed for a longer period of time than normal to save himself "embarrassment" (his word.)

[Dookus]

45. exactly

the audacity of the Dean supporters here is astounding. Dean can open his records tomorrow. He won't. He schemed to have them sealed for an unprecedented period of time, specifically saying he was doing so to avoid future embarrassment.

Clark has released EVERY record he can possibly release. And yet the Dean supporters are finding some fault with Clark in this matter.

Flabbergasting, ain't it?

[SahaleArm]

28. How do you know - have you been to Arkansas?

Not all the records are scanned on-line; if you go to LR you can get all the documents. They even have a reading room for your comfort.

[tameszu]

30. No, General Clark released all of his records to the public

And sent them to the press.

But that doesn't mean he put all of them online.

Assuming that Governor Dean opened his records, the other candidates wouldn't require him to use the massive amount of bandwidth necessary to put them online. They'd just be happy enough if he made them publicly accessible at the Sec'y of State's Office in Montpelier, thanks.

[sangha]

46. Have you read the new rules?

8. If you make a factual assertion about a candidate that is not generally accepted to be true, you must provide a link to a reputable source to back up your claim. Allegedly "innocent" questions which are actually an underhanded effort to spread rumors are not allowed. If you really need to know the answer to your question, try Google.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

48. From CNN - all Clark's records available to journalists

'Clark's reading room'

The general is kicking back, unveiling what aides call "Clark's reading room" this morning at the Sheraton Four Points Hotel in Manchester. The room will feature hundreds of documents from the general's past, which aides have previously made available to journalists.

Clark's room will include:

• His military records, some 290 pages of his entire military personnel file. Nothing will be redacted except his Social Security number.

• His tax returns from the last five years.

• His speaking fees.

• His personal financial disclosures.

• His voter registration in Arkansas.

Clark will speak briefly at the Sheraton about the dangers of executive secrecy, we're told, and refer explicitly to the Bush administration's penchant for privacy. Aides claim their stunt isn't designed to contrast Clark with Dean and his Vermont administration's sealed records. Not at all. But then, they don't have to. We just did it for them.

[leetrisck]

50. Oh, come on, bush's military records

That's too funny