John Kerry's Dukakis problem

[jsw_81]

Did you know that Senator John Kerry served as Lt. Governor of Massachusetts under Governor Michael Dukakis in 1983-84? It's true. They were elected on the same ticket in 1982. Dukakis later went on to became the Democratic presidential nominee in 1988, and went down in flames against the first George Bush in November. Dukakis carried only ten states, while Bush took forty states and over 420 electoral votes.

Since then, the name Dukakis has almost become synonymous with "ultra-liberal" and "loser" in the lexicon of American politics. I happen to believe that Dukakis was a fine public servant who would have been an outstanding president, but unfortunately the "loser" label still sticks with most voters, even Democratic voters. Just imagine the kind of nasty TV commercials ("There they go again with yet another Massachusetts liberal...") Rove and friends are cooking up in case Kerry should be our standard bearer. It will be brutal.

So think long and hard before casting your primary ballot for John Kerry. We already tried nominating a Massachusetts liberal against someone named Bush, and we ended up getting thrashed on election day. Do we really want to go down that road yet again? I sure don't.

Governor-elect Dukakis celebrates with Lt. Governor-elect Kerry on election night, 1982:



Their official campaign button:

[ClarkGraham2004]

1. Both have incredible heads of hair.

[ACPS65]

4. Yes, nominate a Vermont liberal against Bush instead.

Because that's how we do things in Vermont.

[oasis]

No tank photo op for war hero Kerry. And no Willie Horton.

[SahaleArm]

8. That moment combined Willie Horton crushed his candidacy

http://www.ammi.org/livingroomcandidate/

You can see Bush I's stubby head in the corner:

[oasis]

12. Kerry and JFK would be a more accurate comparison.

[saltpoint]

15. Oasis --

-- thank you for saying that. I want to buy you a beer.

[oasis]

16. I accept. :-)

[saltpoint]

24. Great -- we can talk politics and speak --

-- disparagingly of President Bush.

Wait -- where are we on the map? Are you anyplace near Indiana?

[oasis]

29. Way west. I'll settle for the DU lounge after Kerry's Iowa win. ;-) Until

then, here's a toast from way west of the coast and an aloha from the 50th state.:toast:

[saltpoint]

36. Toast acknowledged and returned.

Thanks for the good will, oasis.

[oasis]

38. You're welcome and keep working hard for Democrats in the Hoosier state.

[Closer]

2. ...

Kerry Dukakis '04?

:shrug:

[ALago1]

3. I think John can take whatever is thrown his way

I don't believe in the "loser by association" stigma.

However, overcoming the elitist, out of touch northeastern liberal from massachusetts stereotype will be necessary to overcome.

[jsw_81]

17. Kerry melted under the pressure to support Bush's war in Iraq...

Simply because it was the popular thing to do at the time. Howard Dean would have NEVER done that in a million years. Dean got literally hundreds of death threats during the civil unions controversy, even wearing a bullet-proof vest at one point, yet he still signed the legislation.

[sandnsea]

33. He voted his conscience

Under the pressure of his known liberal anti-war constituency. And Howard Dean would NEVER have done THAT in a million years. We know it because of how quickly he abandoned every single thing he had said about going to war to paint himself as the "against the war from the beginning" candidate, even at the expense of the true anti-war candidate, Dennis Kucinich.

And yes Howard signed the civil unions bill, under order from the Vermont Supreme Court.

[isbister]

43. misleader

[Michigander4Dean]

53. This guy can do it better

Although he does it with something I call 'charisma'

[vi5]

5. Explain to me how a "Vermont Liberal" would go over any better....

And if your response is that Dean isn't a liberal then why is he supposedly appealing to so much of the liberal base that we hear about?

I like Dean, I like Kerry. I'm not a supporter of either. But as far as I can see, except on the Iraq war they can both be tarred with the same brush. Except that Kerry has more war/foreign policy experience.

[PAMod]

10. If the Duke had any Howard Dean in him, he would have beaten Bush 1.

Dukakis himself admits that his attempt to stay above the attacks cost him millions of votes.

If Bush would have attacked Dean for his membership in the ACLU, for example, Dean would have scolded Bush for not belonging and membership nationally would have shot up.

Duke & Dean? Big difference.

[jsw_81]

20. Dean balanced 11 state budgets in a row

He's fiscally conservative and socially progressive. I think the American people will be comfortable with that balance. Bush, on the other hand, has given us the biggest deficits in history, recession, constant "terror" alerts, and has gone hard-right on nearly every single social issue since he took office, even though he lost the popular vote and had NO mandate. I honestly think the American people will be more comfortable with Dean, especially after he destroys Bush in the debates.

[DemPopulist]

41. Dukakis balanced nine budgets in nine years

From Dukakis campaign brochure:


Cutting the federal deficit.
As Governor, Mike Dukakis has twice eliminated huge deficits, including once when he inherited the worst state deficit in America. All told, he's balanced nine budgets in nine years.

Dukakis was demonized with "the l-word" because of his social and foreign policy views; fiscally, he was identical to Dean.

[the populist]

54. The problem with Dean

is that although he is pretty centrist he has the IMAGE OF A LIBERAL! That is a dangerous combination. Isn't it better to nominate someone with a record of standing up for the worker but who portrays himself as a centrist (i.e. Gephardt).

PS Kerry is much more intelligent thatn Dukakis ever was, and his military record will help him since * has exalted the military so much with his propaganda.

[Eloriel]

6. I'm anything BUT a Kerry supporter

In fact, I can barely stand the man.

But this argument is unfair, I believe, and more importantly, it's irrelevent.

Rove&Co. will savage whoever we nominate. The very last thing we should be doing is honoring THEM and giving them even more power by virtue of our fear of what they will do. That's exactly what they want. That's why they pull their dirty tricks.

There's no way in hell Kerry would get my vote in the primary. Even if Dean were to drop out between now and early March (when my state's primary is held), I wouldn't be voting for him. But it won't be because of what Rove might do. And that applies to all the candidates.

And we ALL need to remember that even after all Al Gore went through, he still beat Bush in 2000 (including FLorida). The People still understood that despite all the media lies about him, that he would be a better choice than Bush. I trust The People in 2004 too. (Now if I could just trust the voting machines.)

[nightperson]

23. Thanks,

but I encourage these "devastating attacks" as things tighten up. If Kerry opponents have something serious, bring it on. So far, I find this stuff very helpful in pointing out the current state of affairs in the party. It lets people see the deep thinking that brought down Kerry.

[DaisyUCSB]

7. No more synonomous than McGovern and Mondale

who probably have more in common with Dean perception wise

and Dean, like Dukakis, was a New England governor who was perceived to be as liberal and or left as his small liberal state.

And I think the case can be made that Vermont today has a more liberal perception than Massachusetts, and it's certainly smaller.

I'm undecided by the way, not really leaning towards Dean or Kerry, but I don't think one of Dean's real strenths is any natural electability

[KC21304]

9. John Kerry does not have a Dukakis problem.

But I guess some people here do. That's too bad.

[jsw_81]

11. He has an ENORMOUS Dukakis problem

Rove will definitely use this.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

13. No he doesn't. Mainly because he is taller and he is a combat veteran.

Those 2 superficial differences are more than enought to counter the imagined "Dukakis problem"- an even more superficial issue.

Kerry will crush Bush. Middle America will respect and trust John Kerry. He has proven himself for decades now.

[jsw_81]

21. Gore was taller and also a veteran. Did he crush Bush?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. Combat. Veteran of combat. HUGE difference

Bush would wet his pants were he ever in the same position.
In fact I'll bet he's wetting them now at the mere prospect of facing Kerry.

[blm]

14. And Kerry has plenty of men whose lives he saved.

And he has the Fire Fighters campaigning for him, and veterans groups.

He has film footage FROM Vietnam. He has files of documents from BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning.

I have NO FEAR of Kerry v Bush. I have been visualizing it for 3 years.

If you really knew more about Kerry, you would, too.

[paulk]

18. John Kerry and Michael Dukakis are two different people

I'm sure the voting public will be able to tell the difference.

[saltpoint]

19. You've chosen an impressionable photo --

-- but your premise is askew. Kerry is piloting a helicopter around Iowa as we speak. His portfolio eclipses his old boss and it sure as hell eclipses Dubya's.

In 2004, Dubya will need the votes of an awful lot of people he's alienated. Kerry will connect with a lot of those voters. If he is our nominee, I'll stand in a long line in the rain to vote for our ticket.

[the populist]

22. Disgusting anti-Kerry propaganda from the Dean camp

No one in this race deserves to be compared to the embarrassment of Dukakis.

John Kerry is no Dukakis. He looks presidential and has a very fucking long record to prove it.

More nasty shit from the Dean camp.

flamebait

[hellhathnofury]

26. Disgusting stuff from everyone else.

No one deserves to be compared to teh embarrassment of McGovern.

Howard Dean is no McGovern. He looks presidential and has a very fucking long record to prove it.

More nasty shit from everyone elses camp.

flamebait.

[isbister]

44. Dukakis

Dukakis was and is a very good man

[blm]

25. This is PURE PROPAGANDA.

.

[KC21304]

27. Am I the only one deeply offended by this post ?

And it has nothing to do with John Kerry. Maybe I am older than the rest on this thread, but I think it is disrespectful of a very decent man to suggest John Kerry should be ashamed to have served with Michael Dukakis.

Because Dukakis did not fight dirty against the unprincipled Lee Atwater should not forever brand him as an embarrassement.

Kerry will not make that mistake against Rove, Atwater's partner in crime.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. But the prediction is true re: a campaign theme

It bugs the hell out of me as someone who had Mike Dukakis as his governor for a number of years. But it's true. Dukakis is now potnetially like Kryptonite to Kerry. I guarantee you he mentions his name as little as possible (if at all) now on the trail.
It's a potential smear- to associate the two men, but Kerry certainly must be anticipating the proper response to it in a general election.

[saltpoint]

39. Kerryfan --

-- many of us who've posted here leapt more to Kerry's defense. You are right to say that Dukakis was a class act. And right again to say that he was too civilized and bedrock decent to stoop to Atwater's slimey bottom-feeding skullduggery.

Leaving Dukakis out of my defense here was stingy. My oversight. Sorry.

Your post also reminded me that Dubya's father ALLOWED Lee Atwater to smear Dukakis. The Willie Horton ad, for instance, was inexcusable. I blame Atwater as the architect, but Bush Senior let it happen.

The Republicans are such yucks.

[curse10]

50. No, you aren't.

The shit that Dukakis gets on this board is disgraceful. Dukakis a great democrat.

[semass]

28. Misleading...

While the Gov. and Lt. Gov. nominees run as a team in the final election, they win their nominations separately and may not have even been each other's choice for the office they sought. As for the claim about balancing budgets, doesn't every state require a balanced budget by law?

[JI7]

31. Dukakis is a great guy,a nd i love that picture

kerry should be proud to have dukakis' support. i was about 9 years old when dukakis ran for president and i wanted him to win.

[sandnsea]

34. Kerry will take the fight to them

Dukakis didn't fight back. Kerry will. Case closed.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

35. John Forbes Kerry is no Micheal Dukakis

[batesboys]

37. This is silly nt

[mb7588a]

40. I thought...

The Rovebots feared Kerry the most?
I could be mistaken.
If I were around the WH, I would.

[isbister]

42. George Bush's Kerry problem

Did you know that Senator John Kerry served as Lt. Governor of Massachusetts under Governor Michael Dukakis in 1983-84?

Of course I did, I voted for them.

Dukakis carried only ten states, while Bush took forty states and over 420 electoral votes.

Yeah, Rove's mentor Lee Atwater ran that campaign for bush. Susan Estrich for Dukakis. Remember, Willy Horton? Dukakis in the tank? Sometimes I am amazed at how gullable the American paople can be (I apologize to Gen. Clark but I really didn't like bush I)

Since then, the name Dukakis has almost become synonymous with "ultra-liberal" and "loser" in the lexicon of American politics.

Well, that's a bit of an overstatement, McGovern and Mondale are often mentioned long before Dukakis and try mentioning Clinton's name to a republican... no, try it, its fun... the get angry and red faced... most swear :-)

Just imagine the kind of nasty TV commercials ("There they go again with yet another Massachusetts liberal...") Rove and friends are cooking up in case Kerry should be our standard bearer. It will be brutal.

I have and its been great. They'll dress bush up in his package-hugging jumpsuit again won't they! They might even try to get him to read some cue cards... or better yet explain where the hell he was for a year when he was supposed to be on duty in Texas, Alabama/Florida/Whereever-the-heck-he-was-supposed-to-be.

Hey, maybe they can wear uniforms to the debate!

Seriously, you're looking at a different Democratic Party my friend, we don't like them and what they've done to our country and we're going to take it back no matter who's elected.

Kerry is no Dukakis and although they will try, it will be tough to pin the label they want on him, his record will be a big help in combatting that baloney (former military, corporate crime fighting and Mat Drudge was quoting Kerry earlier today about cutting Government waste... not lefty-liberal stuff)

So think long and hard before casting your primary ballot for John Kerry.

I have, a long time ago. That's why I'm for Kerry.

We already tried nominating a Massachusetts liberal against someone named Bush, and we ended up getting thrashed on election day. Do we really want to go down that road yet again? I sure don't.

Good, so stop this negative crapola and start thinking up how we will bring the fight to bush and rove and don't cower in fear. After all, they only have their record to run on.... shed the light on it and they're screwed!

PS- Unlike Dukakis, Kerry has the military photos to show and bush has the package-hugging aircraft carrier thing and that old national guard paper for with all of that white out on it.

[saltpoint]

45. Hurray for this defense of --

-- our party and of liberals from blue states.

Loved it.

[Byronic]

46. Kerry will beat Bush

He'll beat him for Mike Dukakis. He'll beat him for Max Cleland. He'll beat him for John McCain.

He'll beat him for all of us.

It's payback time

[JI7]

47. i saw this posted on freepers site

did you get it from the freepers, or did you write it yourself and they put it on their site ? if none of them, where did you get it from ?

[blm]

48. Hm...maybe an alert is in order.

Let the mod know that you saw this same post there.

[JI7]

52. somewhat different

i think this is an original post. but the "lets not forget" about kerry serving as lt.gov under dukakis was something the freepers have recently been saying so it kind of reminded me of it. but i like dukakis and have no problem with him. he would have won if not for the disgusting attacks by the bush people. didn't lee atwater apologize on his death bed ? also, kerry is prepared unlike dukakis.

[curse10]

49. Dukakis not a liability

I might have a biased point of view, living in Mass, but I've seen first hand how the people of Massachusetts love and respect Michael Dukakis.

Dukakis teaches at Northeastern U., where I attend law school. He is sought after for speaking engagements across the United States. At three Kerry events I went to he was there, and received a standing ovation each time. I've personally talked to him (I ran into him at the graduate student/faculty cafeteria) and he truly is a fabulous person.

Great men have lost the presidential election- look at Gore, Eugene Debs, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, and numerous others in the history of our country. Great men are not liabilities.

[Kahuna]

51. That's what you think.

nt