ALL candidates should open ALL records as Clark has done

[jpgpenn]

The voter has a right to all information on a candidate before 1 vote has been cast.

I wonder why so may others chose to release what they want?

[bearfartinthewoods]

1. while i agree that all candidates should open their records, using

clark in this way os sort of silly since he has never been in an elected position in where he would generate records as the others have. that's my big problem with him.

clark is like black box voting...no paper trail.

[jpgpenn]

4. wasn't meant to be "silly"

I used Clark because he recently brought up this topic and I feel it's very important that the voter has all info needed in their decision making.

[LoneStarDem]

7. Sort of

While it is true that there isn't the issue-by-issue record that one might have as a legislator or governor, Clark does have a record on a number of issues near and dear to most progressives' hearts. For instance, his testimony in favor of gays in the military before Congress (in support of Sen. Kerry), his proactive policies towards spousal abuse in the military when he was a base commander, his amicus brief in support of affirmative action at Michigan, his humanitarian concerns in both Rwanda and Kosovo, etc. In many of these cases, all of which occurred long before the specter of a Presidential run was even a consideration, the actions he took were at the risk of his own personal reputation, his thirty five years of spotless service, and in some cases his job. He went against the grain, often at times when he was under no obligation to do so, purely based on the strength of his convictions. So no, he is not like black box voting. You get what you vote for, and in Clark's case, you get a strong man of exemplary qualifications.

[robbedvoter]

11. Clark put himself out plenty - jeopardized his career to fight genocide

Both Rwanda and Kosovo. He was the driving force (missed on first one, but not on the second). It ought to count as much as a vote, non?
His testimony to Cogress AGAINST the war in Iraq (sorry RNC), his changing the cyrriculum for schools on military bases - would that reveal as much as, say, Edwards' vote for the bankruptcy law,tax cuts, IWR, Patriot act?(just an example here)

[Padraig18]

2. I find it odd to be in agreement with you.

But unless and until all candidates open the same records they want Gov. Dean to open, they are engaged in cynical. hypocritical 'gotcha' politics on this issue.

[Dookus]

3. Padraig...

do you think we have a right to ask Dick Cheney to unseal his energy records? Do you not see the problem of defending Dean for doing this while saying simultaneously that Cheney is wrong?

[Padraig18]

5. That's not what I said, Dookus.

What I said was that the attacks on Dean ring hollow because of the obvious hypocrisy involved.

[Dookus]

6. well I'm not looking at this the same way....

I don't go by the whole "you go first" game. I'll stipulate right now all candidates should open all their records. All government officials should.

NOW... do you understand why, if we defend Dean's sealing his records, we lost all credibility when it comes to asking for Cheney's records?

[jpgpenn]

8. well that isn't quite accurate.

To try and put everyone on the same playing field when we have, senators, congressman, generals, governors etc. all running for the same office just can't happen. What is accurate is for them to be required to show all records that reflect there judgement and decision making ability based on their job title.

[Dookus]

9. actually...

if you hold public office, the records of that tenure belong to the people, not to you.

Yes, it's uneven. Different people have held different titles. But the basic principle is that our elected officials work for US. Their work product is ours, not theirs to do with as they please.

[jpgpenn]

12. well see now

in your post you state elected. Clark wasn't elected hence he isnt under the same rules you stated. With that, I feel and have said here a few times already that he should open all his records concerning lobbying etc. The others should now follow suit.

[Dookus]

16. then we're agreed.

Clark released all his yesterday. I await the others doing the same.

[jpgpenn]

27. for sure

[blm]

13. I agree with that. It is HOW they performed their job while IN power.

What went into their decision making process.

Like when Dean was pushing since 96 FOR Yucca Mt. to be used for nuclear waste. Now as a candidate he says he needs to see the science and rethink his position. Well, what about all the science he was sent by environmentalists and Democrats who were fighting Yucca Mt. all those years?

Why did Dean choose to believe the same science that Georger Bush "believed" when he decided?

Let's see his records and see what science he rejected and accepted there.

Same with his deal advocating for years deregulating electricity and then arranging for the BFEE loyalist Koch brothers to buy Vermont Yankee in a sweetheart deal. Why not release ALL those papers? The Koch brothers, I'm certain, will have made sure Rove has access to all the embarrassing communications. Shouldn't voters see them, too, BEFORE we are all made to suffer in the general election?

[jpgpenn]

33. don't expect that with out a fight.

As you probably already know, if there anything positive in those sealed records Trippi would have had them plastered all over. It's a fair guess to say the only things that remain are things his campaign doesn't want out in the open.

[robbedvoter]

15. So, after waiting for W to open, now HD waits for ALL candidates to do it?

Including Gary Bauer or whatever oddities run on other tickets? LaRouche? That's conveeenient!
Like I said: leading by example vs following...That's info relevant to voters too. Thanks for playing.

[funky_bug]

34. Question for you, my friend

And as you know, I submit this question with all due respect...

Which of the other candidates have not released their records. I ask honestly, as the issue of sealed records has not been raised with any other candidates but Dean. Or perhaps they were, and I missed it.

[robbedvoter]

10. Power of example vs scolding - what leaders do!

Thanks Clark for elevating this important issue above what Joe made it at the last debate. His "I'll give you my pen" reminded me of the Lazio stunt and made me cringe - much as he was right on substance.

[Wonco_the_Sane]

14. All records belong to the people

nuff said

[robbedvoter]

18. Right. You want to lead, we are entitled to know. Simple, really.

I remember another Howard trying to run for governor in NY. When told he has to release his tax returns, he bowed out. His full name: Howard Stern.

[stickdog]

17. Except that Clark hasn't opened ALL his records.

Not by a long shot!

[Dookus]

19. Which records in his control

has he not released?

[robbedvoter]

20. Oh? Drudge/RNC sent you a private notice?

I don't see the press complaining.
That's the definition of chutzpa - sitting on the sealed records and accusing the others that "it must be more". Karl would be proud of this line of thinking!

[religiousleft]

21. An issue that will shoot us in the foot

I know all of the candidates are trying to get leverage. But there are NONE of them who the already public record shows that we need to be truly afraid about. With the exception of General Clark, who has "opened his records" all of these candidates are long term public servants whose views and whose allies are well known.

On the other hand, "open records" will be fine toothed by the reactionary media and the RNC who open NONE of theirs. We cannot afford to unilaterally provide republican pundits with spin material when we are combating one of the most sophisticated and secretive political regimes in recent history.

[Dookus]

23. In that case

we have to cede the same right to the Republicans.

Do you believe it's OK for Dick Cheney to keep his energy meeting records secret?

[religiousleft]

24. Not at all, but I'm sure he will

so lets elect a president and congress who will investigate this thief! But quibbling about the "records" of a sitting Governor, two congressman, and two senators is silly. One is forced to ask, which records? All of their speeches and policies are public knowledge, their voting records are clear and the press has been following them for years. All will and have complied with the campaign financing laws disclosure requirements. These are not private men. Handing over boxes of files containing what--correspondence? drafts of positions? credit card receipts? old college term papers?--is giving our general election opponents a box of paper kindling with which to ignite the fires of phony issues. You can bet they won't do us the same favor.

Let the public record speak for itself and let Rove, Drudge, Hannity and the lot do their own homework.

[newyawker99]

25. Hi religiousleft!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[meti57b]

22. I can certainly agree with that!

[Th1onein]

26. I have some information about Clark

A friend of mine, Robert James Forwell, who is a Royal Army paratrooper (and my son-in-law), told me this about Clark:

During the Kosovo campaign, General Wesley Clark wanted to attack Pristina Airport, which the Russians held and which American forces needed in order to bring supplies into the area. Mr. Forwell tells me that the British soldiers were briefed that this would be a "world-changing event," and that they were to go in, along with American soldiers, and take no prisoners; kill all of the Russians at the airport. The British commander, General Michael Jackson, did not want to do this. He felt that there was a better way, and that an attack of this sort would start another world war. He refused to send his troops and his superiors in Britian agreed with him. Instead, they made a deal with the Russians that British and American troops could use the airport, while the Russians would still seem to "hold it," thus saving them any embarrassment, and averting another world war.

This is why I am not voting for Clark. One of the reasons, anyway.

[Leilani]

28. That's one of the old

old stories, that has already been disproven here.

Get a new smear; that one won't fly.

[Th1onein]

32. It's not a "smear."

My friend was there, on the spot. He can't vote; he's not an American, and I don't think he has a reason to lie.

[jpgpenn]

29. Sorry hersay doesn't cut it.

The much lied about and overblown Pristina incident was debunked back in the summer when the draft Clark campaign started. I suggest you research this subject a lil more thoroughly before speaking matter of factly.

[Th1onein]

31. I will make it not heresay, how about that?

I'm sorry, but that information comes "right from the horse's mouth." If you would like, I will get Mr. Forwell to post when he comes to visit, about this incident.

[funky_bug]

35. Better yet

Why doesn't he contact the press and have his story aired? It would seem to me that if his credibility withstands media scrutiny, so will his recollection of events which have yet to be documented and verified outside of hearsay.

[Th1onein]

38. Alright, I will ask him to do that.....

But be prepared: the right-wing media whores will lap it up. I guess it doesn't matter who the messenger is, though, as long as it is the truth, and "withstands media scrutiny." LOL

[jpgpenn]

36. no that isn't needed

On an issue such as the Pristina Airport, point us to the newspaper article or other major media coverage of what you speak.

[Jerseycoa]

30. James Rubin, Clark FP Advisor, C-Span Appearance Video

I recommend you and every interested person watch this.

James Rubin, Senior Foreign Policy Adviser for the General, addresses reporters on foreign policy and other issues.
CSPAN (1/16/04) File Sizes: Pt 1-37.3 MB; Pt 2-40.9 MB

Part 1:

http://www.videos4clark.com/vidclips/CSPAN_rubin_011504_seg1.WMV

Part 2:

http://www.videos4clark.com/vidclips/CSPAN_rubin_011504_seg2.WMV

I saw it rebroadcast on C-Span last night and you can probably catch it over the weekend if you are interested.

James Rubin was in Kosovo at the time working for Madeleine Albright. He discusses the Pristina incident.

[mzmolly]

37. Most records concerning Clark are *classified*

He hasn't served the party in office before, so any other records are not really relevant.

[jpgpenn]

39. "most"

first start by showing the data you speak of and second everything within our national security Clark was able to provide, was provided and provided with great pride I might add.

Please post the data showing "MOST RECORDS" of Clark are classified or retract your comment.

[mzmolly]

40. Uh huh, *most*

MOST Wars don't involve much public information. Most information related to the military is *classified* Yup, MOST..... Fortunately for Clark, he doesn't have to account for senate/congressional votes, or an actual record in public office. *phew*

[jpgpenn]

42. once again , post the link stating such

most here don't hold inflated opinion as a source of info.

[TLM]

41. So where can we see the list of ALL those who paid Clark to speak

Not just the parent company that he uses as a front, but the folks who paid?


Also where can i view all of his personal correspondence and intra-campaign memos?

This whole stunt is just that, a stunt. Clark in not opening all his records. He's opening some stuff... and it is the same kind of stuff that Dean already has made public.

So this is nothing but posturing to try and make up for having nothing but his record of killing civilians to run on.