How does Braun getting a $20,000 "retainer" from Dean impact endorsement?

[wndycty]

-snip-
Meanwhile, top Dean aides acknowledged that his campaign is paying a $20,000 "retainer" to ex- candidate Carol Moseley Braun after she endorsed Dean - as well as hiring a few of her staffers and helping her raise money to pay off her $300,000 debt.
-snip-

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/15941.htm

I love and respect Ambassador Braun and she is entitled to endorse whomever she wants. . .but this seems like a payoff. Am I the only one who noticed?

[quinnox]

This smells fishy

All of a sudden Braun withdraws and endorses Dean, then a few days later is given 20k as a new campaign staff for Dean, not to mention Dean campaign is gonna help Braun pay off a cool 300 grand of Braun's campaign debt.

Something stinks about this picture.

[maddezmom]

1. I don[t know what to think anymore

Here's the first article I read on it...thought it sounded reasonable.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=1&u=/ap/20040116/ap_on_el_pr/dean

[maddezmom]

3. and another...can't see thru the spin

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/02/26/politics/main502099.shtml#Wins

[wndycty]

4. I don't want it to be true. . .the retainer part

I am not bothered by her endorsement of Dean, that is up to her. But the appearance that she is being paid off (there is not way to sugar coat it) really bothers me. Most of you know I am huge Braun fan (did not support her campaign, but supported her right to campaign) and I thought she really helped repair her image during the campaign. But this does not look good.

[maddezmom]

6. I know what you mean

it's all just too fuzzy, and not sure what to think about it. :(

[RogueTrooper]

46. She is working three days a week for the campaign

She is being paid for that work.

[bearfartinthewoods]

16. i read your link and i'm still very disappointed.

it may be legal but if a pubbie did it, i'd smell something fishy.

so, to be consistant...i smell something fishy here, especially considering that it has been obvious for 2 debates, that CMB was covering dean's back.

[KaraokeKarlton]

18. They have been friendly since the beginning of the race

Braun is in debt. Dean has raised money for other Democrats too. He is being nice and showing he actually *gasp* cares. Oh the humanity!

[bearfartinthewoods]

31. yeah....right. i might buy this if she had waited until after

the caucus. but to do this so close to iowa makes no sense whatsoever without the payoff.

[KaraokeKarlton]

42. Her campaign has been in debt for quite awhile

She doesn't have enough support to stay in. Everyone knows that and has known it for quite some time. Frankly, the only people who are going to act like this is some "buy off" are people who desperately want to catch Dean doing something that will hurt him because they think that will somehow help their candidate. If this were Edwards, Kerry, Clark or Lieberman who did this, then you might have something to complain about.

[bearfartinthewoods]

52. if the point at which she began to accumulate debt is the issue

she would have dropped out months ago.

but she didn't until this week, just in time for another photo op with dean. right on schedule following gore and harkin. and anyone who says this hasn't been arranged in advance is welcome to convince me of same.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

61. Mosely-Braun has a spotty history - esp. when it comes to "money"

She was involved in some jaw-dropping scandals involving illegal campaign financing, used campaign money for personal expenses.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maddezmom]

47. sign me up, if you get paid to post at DU

do you have a link to how I can get a check?

[lurk_no_more]

56. Link Please

Crickets!

Crickets!

Crickets!

Thought so!


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[snoochie]

2. I doubt it

I'm sure others noticed.

Did you not know this was pretty common, though? Trading favors or promises of future favors for endorsements? Makes the whole concept pretty stupid, huh?

Of course, this only works if the person doing the endorsing perceives that the endorsee is likely to win. :)

[wndycty]

7. True but. . .

. . .has anyone dropped out of the campaign one day and ended up getting a $20,000 retainer the next? This is the first I have seen this.

[snoochie]

8. True, specifically giving a 'retainer' is new to me...

But that could be due to my not seeking out the info.

I know that rewards / promises for future rewards (paying off debts, posts, favors) are common, so the retainer doesn't shock me either.

Politics as usual, IMO.

[bearfartinthewoods]

32. politics as usual except it comes at the hands of the guy

who says he is going to change all that!
hypocrite...

[snoochie]

37. Admittedly

This does look worse coming from Dean, since he's the 'outsider' who isn't about 'politics as usual'. However, having looked at his record, that seemed to me to be just campaign rhetoric. So, I'm still not surprised.

[bearfartinthewoods]

49. oh i'm not surprised about dean

i know what his rhetoric really is but i'm very disappoint in CMB.

[mikehiggins]

5. Didn't the Dean camp deny this just yesterday?

Does anyone have a link to that one?

Are they or aren't they paying CMB money?

I actually don't have any problem with that, as a matter of fact. As I said elsewhere, paying her to support Dean is like paying me to eat chocolate cake. If I can get paid for doing something I'd do for free, bring it on!

My only question is whether or not I'm correct that the Dean campaign originally denied any funds were involved. That is a whole other question and speaks to a complaint many people have referred to over teh course of the campaign.

[maddezmom]

9. check posts 1 and 3

[Padraig18]

10. This is fairly common.

There's a long history of candidates helping others to retire their debts (at least in Illinois).

:)

[Padraig18]

14. 2 examples:

Former Gov. Walker helped Paul Simon retire his debt in his losing primary bid for governor, Paul Simon helped Joe Browning retire his debt for his unsuccessful primary attempt to win the old 22nd Illinois Congressional nomination. In addition, both defeated candidates endorsed the winning candidate.

[wndycty]

19. No one doubts the legality we doubt the credibility. . .

. . .just because something is legal does not make it credible.

[Padraig18]

22. Hmmm...

... I see 'nothing new' about it, frankly, so it troubles me not at all. :shrug:

[wndycty]

26. Sure. . .as long as Dean gets Braun's support who cares about credibility

:kickL

[Padraig18]

45. LOL!

As many here have stated, it's hardly a 'first time' situation. Presidential politics involves credits and debit as surely as any business does.

[DancingBear]

23. Could you cite an example in Presidential poliitcs

if one does indeed exist?

What is troubling about CMB is that this has the "appearance" of being bought and paid for, especially with her defense of Dean in the last election. It is not a stretch to suggest that her defense of Dean at the last Iowa debate was the quid pro quo for her endorsement, debt retirement, and subsequent hiring as a <ahem>, "consultant."

Sounds like politics as usual, but isn't that what Dean is supposedly running against?

[Padraig18]

27. No, I can't.

Furthermore, I'm not going to waste half a morning looking for an example, either. It is what it is, make of it what you will. :shrug:

[wndycty]

28. Hey Dean got an endorsement, who cares how he got it. . .

. . .thats the way his campaign has been run and I do not expect anyone to put up a reasonable defense. . .there is none.

[DancingBear]

36. Heck, I thought it was common practice?

This one is kind of hard to spin away, although the Dean camp does get points for saying "consultant' with a straight face.

[Padraig18]

41. That's why they're not spinning it.

It's an old practice, as far as I determine, and I even cited 2 examples involving a man of sterling credentials who did it--- the late Sen. Paul Simon.

:shrug:

[ShaneGR]

11. Endorsement by Contract... Politics as usual.... he has the power!

To buy out failing candidicies.

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. you better add a disclaimer to your post.

"this is from the NY Post and some people consider it RW"

i got jumped for posting from this paper before and under the new rules it might get pulled and you get a "ding"

if this is true, it's just awful.

[wndycty]

15. Let them attack the messenger. . .

It says a lot about those doing the attacking.

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. ok...but i'd do it because this is too important to get pulled

for a rules violation. it's another indication that dean, though he pretends to be an outsider, out to change the way things are done, is nothing of the kind and is doing pollitics as business as usual.

i'm very disappointed in CMB. i donated to her campaign twice.

[wndycty]

21. Hell, at one point I thought about joining her campaign. . .

. . .but switched candidates. I am a huge fan so I am sincerely worried about her credibility.

[KittyWampus]

38. Wyndy- This Is About Democratic Underground Rules

Please note, If you post from a right wing source you must comment on that or the thread will be locked.

Bear told you that, so you now KNOW the Post is a rag.

It isn't shooting the messenger. It's identifying the nature of the messenger and a DU Rule.

After all the heartburn the this forum caused the Administrators and Moderators recently... can we try and be more respectful of each other and the Rules?

The topic of your post is certainly important and worthy of discussion. It's be too bad if this gets locked

[wndycty]

40. Thanks. . .I did not know that. . .

. . .its too late to edit, so if it gets locked, it gets locked. I suspect the mods will let it stand unless of course someone alerts on it. They do have a lot of discretion to make judgement calls. . .hopefully they will see the value of this topic.

[bearfartinthewoods]

44. i agree....she did a lot to dispell the RW smears against her

during this campaing. her answer to that "tell us something you have done wrong" question was brilliant, honest and open hearted. i just can't imagine why she did this in view of how many people had come around to talking about her for the senate.

well...i can immagine, being a quarter of a million in debt and her comes howard, offering her a way out. boy would i like to know how this came down. who called who? i'm not willing to put all the responsibility on dean but it is tempting.

i am just purely pissed at the timing. i wanted her to stick it out
until at least after NH. it wouldn't have put her that much more into debt to wait a couple more weeks. maybe the offer had a 'expires by" date and she has no choice? a now or never offer of help would be hard to turn down i guess but i'm very disappointed in her.

this is just more proof of why we desperately need public financing.

[bearfartinthewoods]

53. i guess i got my answer......sigh.

In a dance that started last week, Patricia Ireland, Moseley Braun's campaign manager, started talks with Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi to explore coming on board. She was eventually turned over to Dean senior adviser Jon Haber and the two negotiated her departure. Braun will campaign for Dean three days a week with the campaign picking up her expenses, and she'll be paid about $20,000 as a consultant.

[patricia92243]

13. I'd rather Dean pay up-front than to "owe" political favors.

[KaraokeKarlton]

17. Oh for the love of God

Paid staff? Advisor? A freaking friend who is doing something nice to help one of their fellow Democrats?



:eyes:

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. back room deal...paid to get out before the caucus

this answers the question why she dropped out before iowa. there were people donating to her campaign who wanted to see her views aired. dropping out before iowa made no sense until today.

if this was just a friend hiring a friend, he could have hired her next week. there was no sensible reason for her timing before we learned this.

[KaraokeKarlton]

35. Braun was never a threat to Dean in Iowa or anywhere

I find it extremely ironic that people are pitching such a fit over this. The whole reason Carol jumped to Dean's defense is because Sharpton unfairly implied that Dean is biased against minorities in his hiring practices, which implies he doesn't care about minorities. After the debate, Braun approached Dean and told him she was thinking about dropping out and endorsing him. SHE approached him.

So, Dean has hired a black woman to work for him, and offered to help her raise money to pay off her campaign debt...and people are pitching a fit over that.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what Dean does, some people just want to complain and attack him over anything they can think of. I've seen him accused of doing all kinds of things without even one shred of evidence to back up those accusations. It's kind of like a witch hunt or a lynching. Some people don't like him so they LOOK for something to pissed off over, regardless of how silly or irrelevent the issue. It's petty and inane.

[Orangepeel]

57. CMB endorsed him because she wanted to help him win, if she couldn't

dropping out right before Iowa was consistent with that. So is campaigning for him afterwards.

You think she should do it for free? Why should she? Her time and effort is worth money, both to her and to his campaign. The day after Senator Graham dropped out of the race, Dean hired one of his daughters and Clark hired the other. :shrug:

[Mairead]

24. What did anyone expect? Victorian hypocrisy?

This is what nearly all inter-politician endorsements are about: quid pro quo!

Dean and CMB are (if this is true) simply being more open about it. Which you can spin as 'more honest' or 'more arrogant' according to the state of your liver.

I can't recall the details now, but during Bush One's campaign against Clinton he said something that revealed his utter contempt for the People. My mouth dropped open, it was so blatantly contemptuous. I was sure it would be at least mentioned by the punditocracy. But it wasn't, and the penny dropped for me with a loud clang.

The elites see us as chumps, folks. A dimwitted, incoherent mob that can be led around by the collective nose and who are totally uncritical of the most awful nonsense as long as it comes from 'our' side (which is itself a concept as ridiculous as 'our' pro sports team).

[snoochie]

33. uncritical ... as long as it comes from 'our' side

You really said a lot there. I hear this a lot when trying to discuss politics. And there's not a very strong argument against this charge, either. Or at least there wasn't, before Kucinich. :)

Now I can proudly argue that there is a non-business-as-usual candidate.

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. if it were more honest approach, the money aspect would be

mentioned on deanforAmerica and it isn't.

[bearfartinthewoods]

50. i remember one

when faced with polling that said the people felt he wasn't concerned with their concerns he responded with
"message...i care"

what a 'moran'

[Terwilliger]

29. Not at all

CMB did a good job running for president. Good luck to her in the future!

[arewethereyet]

30. come on, are you surprized ?

I knew as soon as I heard the trio of announcements that she was out and she was in debt and that she was goig Dean (Daddy Warbucks as it were) that this was a financial arrangement of convenience.

But lets not kid ourselves, this is anything but unusual.

[wtmusic]

39. It's against the law to support your employer

:eyes:

[1floridademocrat]

48. Oh dear lord..

PLease, this is just stupid..


I'm running for President, one of my opponets endorses me, after they endorse me I think.. Hey, this person can really be a help to my campiagn, lets hire her.. put her on retainer, we can use her help in those areas I am percieved to be weak in.

OMG.. what a concept, maing a former opponet work for you.. *shrug*


Its amazing to me that some Democrats REALLY belive anything at all negative about Dean simply because.. they don't like him much. Huh.. maybe I need to rethink liberals.. makes me glad I'm not one if this is how they really treat people.

[bearfartinthewoods]

51. a very telling phrase...'making a former opponent work for you'

and how did he make her work for him? perhaps by making an offer she felt she couldn't refuse?

being a quarter of a mil in debt would make an offer of "help" pretty attractive. we may never know...which came first...the endorsement or the offer.

[1floridademocrat]

77. But what I find interesting..

Is all these "good" democrats, ready to belive the most snarky thing first, why? because they don't liek Dean.. for reasons I've still not figured out.

Hell.. I like ALL of the people running.. sure Lieberman is my least fav, but I LIKE all of them.

[AngryAmish]

54. CMB has remarkable character

There is no way she would cheat or do something just for the money. To imply otherwise is a vile smear.

[snoochie]

59. Is this sarcasm?

Honestly... is it? As Senator, she voted with Republicans to overturn Clinton's veto of the Securities Litigation Reform Act. HUGE mistake. Why'd she do that? Trading favors again?

I hope people are familiar with that Act. It was the one which enabled corporate boards and stock analysts and traders to get away with all the fraud that was necessary to cause the tech bubble and massive failures like Enron.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

64. Braun was invloved with so many scandals it would make your head spin...

Take it from an ex-Chicagoan...

Scandals involving illegal campaign finance contributions, using $280,000 of campaign finance funds for personal use, she (and her family) was accused of medicare fraud, she was buddies with a brutal Nigerian dictator and took "secret trips to see him - despite U.S. "sanctions" against him, she was accused of bank fraud and bribery back when she was Cook County's recorder of deeds.

[Kahuna]

55. Nothing about it surprises me.. Remember..

Many folks, including myself always believed she was running so that she could get a job in a new Democratic administration.

[Bread and Circus]

58. It does seem kind of weird.

[ecstatic]

60. Her time is valuable. I don't think she should have to work for free

Am I missing something? :think:

[wndycty]

63. Are Bradley and Gore being paid. . .

. . .:kick:

[wellstone dem]

65. Gore and Harkin

and Sheen and Reiner and Richards.

The thing that bothers me is that I always knew that campaign staffers were being paid, but I had never understood that the major figures who endorse were paid for those endorsements. Is CMB going to mention that she is being paid everytime she gets on stage or on TV for Dean?

It would be good to have some full disclosure as to who is getting paid for their campaign work and who is not. BTW, I have always campaigned for free for candidates I fully support. In fact, I pay them.

[lurk_no_more]

62. This does happen all the time

We all blast bush for the favors he's bestowed for favors received, it's politics as usual.

What I find despicable here is CMB's lies to everyone knowing in advance that this "arrangement" was in the works for what appears to be weeks, that and her going on "The Daily Show" or whatever the night before still saying she was a viable candidate.

The apparent hypocrisy of dean claiming to want to change the politics as usual while practicing politics as usual doesn't surprise me, he's not a Washington insider but he is a practiced politician and if anyone was fooled by his false promise of change, they were less than observant of his past record.

The timing of CMB's announcement, at a time when dean was free falling just before Iowa is set to vote, clearly shows that her announcement was timed only to enhance dean in a positive way. It was again politics as usual so let's not sugar coat it as being an honorable endorsement, there were strings attached, strings that benefited dean alot more than CMB, depending on how you look at it, it appears to be money well spent, thankfully it's not my money.

The question now is, what was promised to the other political endorsements in this politics as usual arrangement? I guess we'll find out only if dean wins the GE, of course we might have a better heads up on what to expect if dean would just unseal his records.....OK we all know that'll never happen, we've had three years to get used to that type of Administration.

When CMB made her announcement, I was one of the first to congratulate dean, do I feel I was had? yes! Do I feel her endorsement was tainted? definitely! Will this cause me to delay my congratulations in the future? oh yeah!!!

IMO What I see here is SSDD, Same Shit Different Day


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[wndycty]

66. So Dean is practicing politics as usual. . .hmmmm

:kick:

[Padraig18]

67. So?

:shrug:

[wndycty]

68. Isn't he opposed to politics as usual?

:kick:

[Padraig18]

70. LOL!

"Are you still beating your wife?". A leading question doesn't get an answer from me.

:hi:

[lurk_no_more]

69. Oh you got that huh?

I was afraid I was too subtle. :)


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[Cuban_Liberal]

72. I don't give a damn, frankly.

At least Dean had the decency to be open about it.

[lurk_no_more]

75. I seriously doubt decency had anything to do with it

more like self preservation.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[mitchum]

71. Hell, I would endorse him for half of that

doesn't mean I'd vote for him in the primary

[jpgpenn]

73. this is the first i heard of this.

and I agree with you, this smacks of a payoff.

[gulliver]

74. It is completely unacceptable. That could not be more obvious.

If this is allowed to go unpunished, we will have 90 candidates in the next election instead of just 9. There will be no risk in losing. The early losers will cover the risk by selling themselves to the survivors.

Dean is paying her $20,000 and "helping here with her debt."

He can do that, but she can't endorse him if he does or work for his campaign. That is clearly a corrupt quid pro quo.

This cannot be allowed to stand. The DNC should step in.

[MODemocrat]

76. Maybe the anti-Dean people can stomp a mudhole

in his hindend with this one. Lord knows, they've tried everything else to bring him down. This might just work. shrug: :puffpiece: :boring: