If Kerry defeats Dean in Iowa, will Dean Supporters and Dems Rally to Him?

[WiseMen]

A 25 year old lieutenant John Kerry earner his silver star and medals for every man under his command by developing and carrying out a daring strategy to thwart Viet Cong ambushes against his “operation Sealords” patrol of the Mekong Delta.

Kerry’s method called for swinging the boats under his command at high speed directly into enemy fire as an ambush began. At the end of operations in which Kerry routed a series of ambushes without the loss of a single man, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, Commander of Naval Forces Vietnam, put Kerry up for our country's second highest honor, the Navy Cross, saying "It was an act of bravery beyond the call of doctrine.”

Two months ago a reporter ask Kerry if it wasn’t about time he swing the boats into attack against Dean. Kerry, demurred, “No, im still moving up the river.”


Now Kerry with his small band of Veterans and supporters is clearly charging the shore and the incoming fire is fierce. He is going up against:

A barrage of big name endorsers.
A “Dean Will Win” “Dean Will Win” Media mantra.
A “not for attribution” smear campaign.
Big Union “get out OUR vote” operations.
The Dean Internet Machine.


I am not optimistic. But Kerry is a fighter. And he has experienced fighters on his boats – Max Cleland, Ted Kennedy, Bob Kerrey and a band of brothers in arms. He could still pull it out.

The question I ask: If Kerry does win, against all odds, will the Dems pin on the medals – Dean supporters give him a break on his IWR vote, and Dems give him a break on the criticism of his campaign. Will they come to the side of the quiet warrior, the one life-long Democratic stalwart, and fighter for progressive causes, who could likely take the battle to Bush and win.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

John Kerry received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat.

[wryter2000]

1. If he wins the nomination

If he wins the nomination, you bet I'll rally behind him. But Iowa ain't the whole primary campaign.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. No way. He lost my vote with his vote for the war.

If Kerry or any of the other 3 get it, it's Green for me.

[Philosophy]

6. But if Kerry is the president

Then the president can't trick him into supporting an unjust war. So the best way to avoid more wars is to support Kerry for president.

[carolstarkey]

43. ROFLMAO!

That's a wonderful slogan: Vote for me! I won't fool myself! LOLOLOL!

[newyawker99]

85. Hi carolstarkey!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[jonnyblitz]

56. good point! I am convinced now.

LOL :hi:

[kerrygoddess]

92. I like your logic!

[blm]

8. So Dean's support for use of force authorization

that allowed Bush final determination, even if unilateral, gets a pass from you?

How interesting.

How comforting.

[Egnever]

13. Absolutely gets a pass from me

you have had the diferences explained to you at least 200 times by now yet still you cling to this crap.

Lest we forget youir boy himself said that biden lugar was the better resolution Yet chose to cave anyway.

Its exactly this kind of dishonest crap from the kerry camp that has turned me completely away from him.

[TLM]

24. Exactly... it is so desperate trying to say IWR was the same as BL

because both allowed for use of force.... never mind that only the IWR allowed for invasion, take over, and looting of Iraq. BL was specific and direct about destroying weapons and allowed for use of force to that end, not to the end of taking over Iraq.

To say that Biden Lugar was the same as IWR because both allowed for use of force... is like saying that spanking your kid is the same thing as punching them in the face, because both used force.


They can not defend Kerry for his cowardly war vote... so they have to try and argue that Dean is just as dirty as Kerry.

[sandnsea]

30. Back at ya

Anybody who would use this vote as a political tool doesn't deserve respect or support. It's worse than the vote itself. Just revolting. And that is all Dean and the Dean camp has done. Taken the deaths of thousands of Iraqis and 500 soldiers and turned it into a Democratic campaign tool. Revolting.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

89. IWR vote as a political tool

well that was the GOP plan all along... right? Look at all the time and energy expended in the campaign on that vote.

[sandnsea]

9. Then it's Bush for four more years

Because I'll never vote for a liar like Dean who pretends he was against the war but never really said one way or the other until it was politically beneficial.

Works both ways.

[Egnever]

23. Well there you go then

Guess bush wins no matter who gets it ehh?

[sandnsea]

29. You got it

I can be just as pig-headed and self-serving as anybody else.

[Egnever]

31. I never had any doubt

[sandnsea]

36. Confront your fellow Dean supporters

Why the hell don't you go after your fellow Dean supporters for being so devisive and short-sighted, hmm??? That's my whole point.

[Egnever]

41. You are arguing in circles

We can do the I know you are but what am I thing all day if you like but it will get us no where

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredScuttle]

12. Bush in 2004 thanks you

[Eloriel]

80. Oh no you don't

Those people who voted FOR the war have a choice even now: they can repudiate their vote.

That's what it would take to get my vote. I don't take lightly sending our young (and not so young) men and women to their untimely deaths and killing thousands of innocent brown people for no good reason lightly. And I for darned sure don't want to see a man like that sitting in the White House. We already have one like that.

So -- go tell your candidate(s) to do the right thing for a change. The vote was wrong and they know it. An apology is appropriate.

We'll be waiting.

[Democrats unite]

15. which of course means 4 more years of Bush!

but some people who are so aginst who voted for the war seem less pissed at the one who put us there!

just my opinion.

[sandnsea]

20. That isn't it

They're just against the guy who has been the biggest threat to Dean. That's all. Very few people really care about this war vote and it shows when you add Hillary to the mix. It shows when there isn't the animosity towards Edwards. If Clark becomes the big threat after Iowa, look for "he's a Republican" repeated until you feel like you've got elephants stampeding out of your ears.

And I personally apologize for the Kerry campaign making those blanket "he voted for xyz" remarks. How he voted doesn't matter. What he thinks about those votes, in retrospect, particularly the Reagan years, does matter. The particular policies, not just a general disillusionment. That's fair and answerable. "He's a Republican" means absolutely nothing, just like Washington Establishment means nothing. But it sure beats the hell out of you after a while.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Nonsense.

Most of the supporters of Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton or CMB, are passionately against the war. What in the hell has Hillary got to do with it? She voted for the IWR and is deserving of the same scorn that Kerry has received. One of my Democratic senators voted for the IWR and she won't be getting my support when she faces reelection.

Edwards has received his share of much deserved disrespect but, indeed, he wasn't seen as likely to win anything so little was sent his way.

As for Clark, his support of the SOA is much more worrisome to me than his previous support of the likes of Reagan. But, are we to ignore it? As the Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt supporters wish we would ignore their willingness to sacrifice lives to further their political aspirations?

Kerry, if by chance he should get the nomination, has no chance against the boob that he supported with his vote on the IWR.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Egnever]

45. Using the lives of thousands of people for political gain

Exactly why I will never vote fpr kerry

[adadem]

53. Call it even

I will never cast a vote for Dean

[sandnsea]

55. Stand with Kucinich

Then you'll have some credibility as caring about the war. Anything else is political grandstanding.

[Raya]

61. Kerry opposed the war more that you did.

[ClarkGraham2004]

60. The School of the Americas is a moronic argument.

What other conspiracies can you come up with to not support Clark?

[ClarkGraham2004]

59. Cool. I guess you're a Bush supporter then.

He thanks you for your vote. He hopes there are more self-serving righteous folks just like you.

[beaconess]

78. And then it will be Bush for you, too

[edzontar]

48. Kerry would have many of us if not for IWR...

I hope that Iowa finishes Gephardt though, he is a regional and redundant candidate.

Kerry and Dean should both do well in NH, especially now that Clark is fading in the polls--none too soon, IMHO.

[sandnsea]

54. Voting Kucinch???

He's the only one who didn't support war in any way to get inspectors back into Iraq. The only one.

Supporting anybody else because they were anti-war is phony bullshit. It doesn't give the anti-war case any more credibility. None at all. Is that all it is? Some ego driven need to have "known it all along"? Because I really don't get it. If the war is truly so important, every Dean supporter ought to be standing with Kucinich. Nobody is. That's all the evidence I need to know this war vote is a totally phony issue.

[Raya]

62. Hey, Harkin voted yes on IWR. Did you want war? This issue has been

Manupulated for political purposes.

[isbister]

76. Clark is fading in the polls?

In NH, since 1/9:

Clark has "faded" +1%
Edwards has "faded" +5%
Kerry has "faded" +9%
Dean has faded -8%

http://americanresearchgroup.com/nhpoll/demtrack/

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. Not yet.

The surge will have to continue into February for that to happen.

[Egnever]

3. NO

Absolutely not!

Never!

Kerry will have to win the nod before i will even consider voting for him and even if he does i just might sit this one out anyway.

[blm]

11. Why? because he exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker

in modern history?

Does anyone root FOR government corruption these days? Or doesn't that fit the partisan perception in some camps that Kerry is a "corrupt Washington insider" all of a sudden?

[Egnever]

18. No because his campaign has twisted and lied more than anyone else

He has proven himself with his vote for IWR to be a politician interested only in his political futer and after that vote has twisted his ratiuonal for it more than i can stand meanwhile trying to paint someone who was against the war firmly as being some sort of flip floper on it.

He is a cold calculating politician willing to distort reality to try to make himself look better in his quest for power. I dont trust him for a seconds to do the right thing after his vote on the IWR.

[TLM]

28. Kerry disgusting attacks on Dean for wanting UN support in Iraq

are what drove me out of even considering Kerry in the primary...


Then he made it worse by attacking Dean for daring to say he would respect due process and rule of law even for the trial of Osama.

The man is sick... he'll say anything to attack Dean even if it violates everything this party is supposed to stand for.

[sandnsea]

38. What???

Kerry has been calling for a multilateral UN effort since, forever, really. Since 1997.

He attacked Dean for the way Dean words things. He is making Dean a BETTER candidate. Because how a Democrat, especially an anti-war Democrat, words things would be critical in November. No President can EVER make statements that remotely indicate they wouldn't act militarily unless they had UN permission. THAT is what Kerry attacked and he was exactly right. Why the hell do you think we always lose? Our candidates SAY stupid shit.

Same thing with Osama. STUPID SHIT. How hard is it to say oh yes,he deserves the death penalty. But we will of course have to have a fair trial, etc.

Kerry wants the Democratic Party to win. Him confronting Dean now is a whole lot better than letting Dean run wild with his mouth to get slaughtered by Rove in November.

[sangha]

86. Have you read the new rules?

"8. If you make a factual assertion about a candidate that is not generally accepted to be true, you must provide a link to a reputable source to back up your claim. Allegedly "innocent" questions which are actually an underhanded effort to spread rumors are not allowed. If you really need to know the answer to your question, try Google."

Your factual assertion that Kerry attacked Dean "for wanting UN support in Iraq" is not generally accepted to be true, so please come up with a link.

[Padraig18]

5. Only if he wins the nomination. n/t

[bigwillq]

7. I will support Kerry if he wins the nod

until then I'm pulling for Dean

[Raya]

52. What if Dean is no longer viable and it becomes Kerry vs Clark?

[FredScuttle]

10. Kerry served in Vietnam?

Gee I hadn't heard...

Seriously, no disrespect intended to Kerry for his courageous service, but why don't we don't we tone down the casting of Kerry's surge in Iowa in these overblown terms? Dean and Clark are not the Vietcong.

I am a Dean supporter and I think it's much too early for any candidate's partisans to waive the white flag (well, except Sharpton and Kucinich). Iowa is important, but so is NH...let's see how the next few months play out.

I will back WHOMEVER wins the Democratic nomination. This election is too important to carry grudges. Will you pledge to the same, or will you be writing similar prose about Kerry fighting the good fight in NH against the NVA/Dean?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Waving the white flag.

I agree, it's too early for that, but when you see that at this point, what it says to me is just what the pollsters are saying. To alot of people, the only important thing is to beat Bush. For awhile, it looked like Dean was the only one who could. Now that it's crunch time and the real strengths of some of the other candidates are showing, those who flocked to Dean simply because they thought he was 'a winner' are taking second looks. By definition, that kind of support is not strong.

[Egnever]

21. Actually I think we are in for a suprise

When it comes to DK. I think he will make a better showing than anyone is predicting.

I dont think he will ever pull off the nod but I think he willl do a whole lot better than people expect especially in caucus states.

[Cuban_Liberal]

14. The question is quite premature.

My suspicion is that every candidate's supporters will rally to the nomine, once he is chosen. Iowa isn't going to secure the nomination for Kerry at all, even if he wins.

[sandnsea]

22. It was premature in December too

But that's what everybody was supposed to do then. Al Gore said so. Rally around the annointed one.

[Cuban_Liberal]

26. I agree.

And I haven't rallied around anyone yet.

[TLM]

17. Ummmm, no.

I seriously doubt Kerry will win in Iowa. The whole caucus system is set up so that last minute polls don't mean squat. In a caucus state, hard counts are what makes the difference and organization on the ground.

Doesn't matter who says what in a phone poll, if they can't get to the caucus.

Dean's organization is doing everything from driving folks to their caucuses to providing babysitters. These polls don't account for that kind of thing. Nor do they account for all the new folks Dean's team is bringing into the process who never caucused before.

Kerry may very will win the PR fight right up to the day of the caucus... but he simply doesn't have the resources on the ground to take advantage of that last minute surge in good press.

Can Kerry make sure that everybody who said they'll caucus for him gets to their caucus? Nope.

[alfredo]

19. I would be interested in seeing how the Dean camp will react if

Kerry wins in Iowa. That will say a lot about his ability to handle the campaign and job. I tend to think losing Iowa might be good for Dean.

You know the old saying, "bad fortune is a gift, good fortune is a test." Or something like that.

[gulliver]

25. 4 units damage to Dean. 2 to Gephardt.

3 units of benefit to Clark. 2 to Kerry. 1 to Edwards.

Dean loses NH. Clark or Kerry win it. It's close. A victory for both of them. A much smaller victory for Kerry who is in his own back yard in NH.

I see it as predominantly good for Clark from then on. I believe he would win the nomination under a Kerry victory in Iowa scenario.

[WiseMen]

32. I Agree. Clark Wins unless other Dems rally behind Kerry.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. Ridiculous premise

One Caucus in a state that until now has meant very little to kerry supporters. We heard ad infintum from everyone except the front runners campaign how none of this mattered; now, if Howard Dean finishes behind Kerry, our movement collapses? When we have at least ten times the money that Kerry does?

What is it that the Kerry campaign is not telling us? Where exactly do these sources of new funding lie? How is it that he seems assured of them? How are we supposed to believe him? Why is the underdog campaign of Howard Dean any less diminished by all this? When is all of this supposed to happen? Do you really think that to us, media perception is that important?

Although I must say I am amazed at the ferocity and volume of the machine's attacks on Howard Dean; we expected incoming, but jeese they are shooting the works just on Iowa!

[janx]

35. ...and the primary process hasn't even started yet!

??

[BurtWorm]

33. No. I won't get behind Kerry until or unless he wins the nomination.

Sorry.

[NoPasaran]

34. Nope

Let's wait until a few more votes are counted, shall we?

If Kerry or Clark or Edwards or Gephardt or Kucinich or Lieberman or Sharpton or some Unnamed Democrat is nominated, I will support him, regardless of previous sins. But until that happens, I'm with Dean.

[kentuck]

42. What kind of question is that?

I owuld think that would make the Dean people work that much harder in NH? If Kerry is defeated in NH, do his people support Dean? No, I don't think so. If Kerry won Iowa and Dean won NH, then it would have to go another round or two to sort it out.

[KaraokeKarlton]

44. Not a chance

Dean supporters are solidly behind Dean. Dean will be in the race until the end and his supporters will stand with him the whole way to the white house.

[IndianaGreen]

46. 3 GIs were killed today in Iraq that would be alive if not for IWR

3 GIs were killed today in Iraq that would still be alive if not for the IWR vote. None of the Democrats that voted for IWR, supposedly to force Bush to go to the UN, ever called for Bush's impeachment the moment our troops crossed into the Iraq. Instead they stood there waiving the flag and cheering as the United States joined the list of other nations that started wars of aggression against other nations: Imperial Japan, Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, etc.

Defeat at the polls is a rather small price to pay by those that stood with Bush in the Rose Garden in support of his war plans. No one gets a "pass" for actions that resulted (as of today) in 502 American dead and 2,893 American wounded, and over 10,000 dead and wounded Iraqis. We should not forget either the 96 dead from other nations, including 56 from the UK. (Source: http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx)

The antiwar vote will not transfer to those that voted for IWR. We still have Dennis Kucinich, and if he drops out, we have Wes Clark as of last resort. When it comes to campaign ribbons, Clark has more rows than Kerry and, unlike Kerry, Clark does not have to do penance for the IWR.

There are no profiles in courage among the crop of candidates that voted for IWR, John Kerry included, as the following excerpt from an essay about John F. Kennedy's Profiles in Courageis quick to remind us:

John F. Kennedy hoped that each person who read this book and learned about courageous people in public life would realize that when a person faces a difficult decision which is bound to be unpopular, they are not alone. Each person must stand up for what they believe in and be willing to take the consequences, if they wanted to make the country a better place to live.

<snip>

None of the subjects were portrayed as perfect or beyond reproach. Kennedy showed very strongly, in fact, the ethical ambivalence of some of the classic figures in American history in this work. The point he sought to make is not about how heroes were made of different stuff than others. This book is about how human beings can, in a time of moral crisis, find the courage to follow their own truth in the face of opposition.

<snip>

Finally, courage on a different aspect was the courage to save the President, by Edmund G. Ross. He was constantly tortured and pressured by the press, public, and the political scene during the impeachment hearings of President Andrew Johnson over the Tenure of Office Acts. Finally, it was time to vote for or against impeachment. Twenty-four “guilty” verdicts were pronounced by the time the Chief Justice reached Ross. He knew the rest of the votes were practically certain “guiltiness.” Only his one vote was needed to obtain the thirty-six votes needed to impeach the President of the United States. He responded in a unhesitating voice, “Not guilty.” Ross later noted: ..I almost literally looked down into my open grave. Friendships, position, fortune, everything that makes life desirable to an ambitious man were about to be swept away by the breath of my mouth...” (pg. 118)

http://www.freeessays.cc/db/10/bgt358.shtml

A "Yes" vote on the Iraq War Resolution was as popular a vote as a vote to impeach President Andrew Johnson. A "No" vote on the Iraq War Resolution was the unpopular vote, yet it was the correct vote and a vote that has stood the test of time. Who among us can forget denator Byrd's powerful speech in the Senate Chamber warning us of the consequences of giving Bush a blank check to war? Who can forget Byrd's dire warnings about the damage to the Constitution's checks and balances if Congress were to abrogate its war-making powers to the Executive Branch?

Among the Democratic candidates, only Dennis Kucinich voted against IWR. Dennis was criticized and marginalized by the Democratic establishment for his vote. Dennis was portrayed as unpatriotic by the 24/7 media. While other candidates spoke against this war, most notably Howard Dean, the fact is that Kucinich was the only one to vote against it. Kucinich's antiwar vote was a profile into his own courage to stand against the leaders of his own party, the polls and the pundits, in order to take a principled stand for America.

Caroline Kennedy, President Kennedy's daughter, quoted her father at the end of an essay she wrote about the Profiles in Courage Award:

My father ended his book with the following words that bear repeating now:

"In whatever arena of life one may meet the challenge of courage, whatever may be the sacrifices he faces if he follows his conscience -- the loss of his friends, his fortune, his contentment, even the esteem of his fellow men -- each man must decide for himself the course he will follow. The stories of past courage can define that ingredient -- they can teach, they can offer hope, they can provide inspiration. But they cannot supply courage itself. For this, each man must look into his own soul." -- John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage

-- CAROLINE KENNEDY October 1, 2001

http://www.innerself.com/Miscellaneous/kennedy03273.htm

[Raya]

47. The IWR was intended to Slow the rush to war. Remember. Bush was

going to go without even going to the U.N.

Stop blaming patriotic Democrats for Bush's War that many, especially Kerry, tried to stop.

[edzontar]

49. IWR was when the war became inevitable..and everyone knew that...

Including every single person who voted for it, and me (why? because I read stuff).

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eloriel]

84. Didn't work very well, did it?

Nor does that spin on that vote, btw. Just in case you're interested.

[sangha]

87. Dean's so-called opposition didn't work very well either.

Or did I miss it when Dean called off the war?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

90. Touche!

You will never get a rebuttal to that, but the point deserves a special citation. Good job sangha!

[beaconess]

79. If those who voted for IWR are responsible for these deaths

why is Dean so eager to accept the endorsements of members who so voted?

Shouldn't he be ashamed to stand on a platform accepting the help of Tom Harkin? Or does a Dean endorsement wash the blood from his hands?

And claiming that Harkin later admitted his mistake doesn't fly since his admission came only after public opinion turned against the war. Shouldn't Dean have more integrity than to allow his outrage at those who voted for the war be so fluid, depending upon which ones are willing to advance his political fortunes?

[Zinnola]

51. If Kerry wins the nom

I will send in my absentee ballot for him but that is all. I will not put in the work that I am doing for Dean. Kerry is not worth it.

[LuminousX]

57. Rally to Kerry for just one victory? Uh, no.

[kerrygoddess]

94. History teaches... Americans generally elect optimists...not angry people

"History teaches that Americans generally elect optimists to the White House, not angry people. History also teaches that winning Democratic presidential candidates have tended to be those seen as strong on defense and national security issues, not anti-war candidates." - David Yepsen, Des Moines Register
http://desmoinesregister.com/opinion/stories/c5917686/23290016.html

[Rowdyboy]

58. This Clark supporter says absolutely YES!!!

It would be my privilidge to support Senator Kerry if Clark is defeated.

[NewHampster]

63. And I'd be a freekin Canadian if my number came up during nam

Kerry is a wonderful and formerly honorable man but all the war medals on Earth don't make a president.

I came into this race liking Kerry as I have for years but like many Deaniacs who will gladly support Clark, Edwards, Gephardt or gulp, even Joey, I would have a hard time supporting Kerry. Forget the Rovian tactics in NH because those may actually be Rove.

John Kerry must have had a movie based on him. Unlike Gephardt, he has abandoned any sense of pride and loyalty to any set of fundamental values. He is obsessed with being president to the detriment of the party. He should learn from Teddy, put aside the personal desire for ultimate power and enjoy the elder statesmanship.

[jsw_81]

75. Agreed

[Andromeda]

64. No.

Winning Iowa doesn't guarantee the nomination. Bill Clinton lost the Iowa causus in 1992 so the winner doesn't necessarily go on to win the nomination. Ronald Reagan also lost the Iowa causus and still won the presidency. This is only one state that helps the candidate who wins it get a little momentum and beyond that it depends on how they do in all the states.

Dean is ahead in California and that is good news because we have a lot of electoral votes and the candidates will be doing handstands to be noticed here.

[Walt Starr]

65. If Kerry won the nomination, I would vote for him in the GE

so long as Clark was not his Veep choice.

[Samantha]

66. In a word -- no

I don't see a lot of difference between a Bush* and a Bush* enabler. Beyond that, Bush* is all about Bush* and Kerry is all about Kerry. I will only vote for someone who represents the interests and point of views I share. That let's Kerry out.

[arewethereyet]

67. Dean v Kerry has been quite heated, that worries me

I wish I could be sure one way or the other

[oasis]

68. The amount of "purist" votes Kerry would lose is nothing compared to

the votes he would gain for being a solid,sober and serious Democratic contender against the Bushistas. There's no need for him to fish in a shallow pond when he can cast his broad net into the ocean.

[mitchum]

70. Beautifully said, oasis

[Rich Hunt]

69. I'll campaign against Bush n/t

.

[MODemocrat]

71. Yes, I will, Kerry's a great american

John Kerry was my first choice in the beginning, then along came Howard Dean. He fired me up, and offered hope to this country. I do like John Kerry for being a true american, a brave soldier, and I've never had a vendetta against him for voting in favor of the war in Iraq, because he was duped by the Bush gang just as the rest of us were.

:thumbsup: :hug:

[drfemoe]

83. Sorry you were duped

I wasn't and millions of war protesters the world over weren't either. I held my breath for weeks while Daschle appeared to put up a viable protest to the war that couldn't be stopped. But, in the end, as I feared, he backed down and decided it was the "best thing". I wasn't duped.

[Larkspur]

72. No. It's a 50 state Dem Prez nomination race...

that's why Dean went to places, like Idaho, during his Sleepless Summer Tour.

While a victory or close 2nd would be great, Dean knew that he would need to fight for every delegate in every state. Kerry has not thought that far ahead.

[Sensitivity]

73. We don't have to wait 50 states to reconsider our support

[jsw_81]

74. No way

If John Kerry should win Iowa, that will obviously be a problem and a huge disappointment for the those of us supporting Howard Dean, but it will not knock the governor out of the race. Not even close. The only thing that could knock us out of the race would be a fourth-place finish in Iowa followed by a second-place finish in New Hampshire. But barring that outcome, the race is far from over.

The fact of the matter is that almost every single "front-runner" in both parties has stumbled a bit at first. Reagan lost IA to Bush in 1980, Hart upset Mondale in NH in 1984, Dole smashed Bush in IA in 1988, Buchanan upset Dole in NH in 1996, McCain upset Bush in NH and Gore narrowly beat Bradley in IA in 2000 etc. etc.

But when all was said and done, the original front-runner -- that is, candidate with the most money and the best organization -- eventually won the nomination. Dean clearly has the most money in the bank at this point (by far), and has built an outstanding organization in delegate-rich states like California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Washington and Arizona. Will the other candidates be able to compete in those states? Do they have the money to run the expensive TV/radio ads that are crucial if you want to win those states? I don't think that they do. I do think, however, that Dean will be our nominee this summer, and that he will be the next President of the United States.

And by the way, he's also going to win Iowa AND New Hampshire.

[w4rma]

77. The guy who spent the whole primary attacking Dean?

Nope. Not this Dean supporter. Not unless Kerry somehow wins the *whole* nomination.

[drfemoe]

81. Um Noooo

Our state primary is in March. I'll vote for Dean then.

OTOH, if Dean wins IA will Kerry supporters get behind Dean?

btw, Viet Nam war stories are just about my least favorite thing to read about candidates. I know more than I want to about that era as it is. In fact, I once had to tell a friend of mine to stop telling me his VN stories. I had heard enough.

[nomaco-10]

82. Never....

And that is why Kerry will never win the presidency even if he somehow manages to get the nom. Too many people such as myself will be staying away from the polls in droves and sending a message to the democratic party as it stands right now, that message being, no more politics as usual.
I'm still up and have been watching the breaking news of the car bombing in Baghdad and sitting here thinking, so many people dead, so many more will die. WHY? I will not support any candidate that voted IWR period.

[WiseMen]

88. Kerry whole senate career has opposed "Politics As Usual"

He was Wellstone's partner in pushing clean-government legislation.

He worked with McCain-Feingold to strenthen finance reform.

He pushed the ban on soft money.

He is notorious for his dislike of fund-raising and back-slapping.

I wish you would read a little more about the Senator.

[ACPS65]

93. Just got to reading over some of the responses in this thread.

Frankly, some of y'all should be ashamed.

I can't believe some people still don't understand the importance of getting Bush and his corrupt cabal out of control of our country. It's a shame how unyielding and divisive this primary season has made Democrats.

"Go ahead, fall in love, be for somebody. But when the primary's over, let's fall in line and bring the White House back to our party." - Bill Clinton

[frank frankly]

91. dude, if Kerry wins, I'll do everything I can to help him

of course, this goes for all of them.

but Kerry would be a pleasure to fight for...

[question everything]

95. With one day to go, Kerry pulls ahead

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/4325436.html

DES MOINES -- The John Kerry who worked his way through the packed crowd at the Creative Visions youth center on Saturday seemed very different from the Massachusetts senator who has appeared wooden and aloof on so many debate stages.

This Kerry was hugging, stopping to listen and showing emotion when he met a fellow Vietnam veteran he hadn't seen since they nearly died together in 1969.

(snip)

Another signal that Kerry is a contender is that other candidates are attacking him. The Dean and Gephardt campaigns seemed to call a truce in hammering each other this weekend and went after Kerry instead.

Until a few weeks ago, Kerry didn't need political enemies to damage his standing with voters. He faltered on his own.

"He presented himself as the candidate of inevitability, the obvious nominee," said Dennis Goldford, a political science professor at Drake University. "I think he expected to run right away with the campaign."

Nearly losing the race "has been a humbling experience for Kerry," Goldford said.

n the past two weeks, Kerry has seemed less patrician, projecting himself as a regular guy with some of the same problems as the voters. For example, he often tells crowds about his recent experience with prostate cancer and the deep understanding that gave him about the need for more Americans to have health insurance.

Kerry also got some unexpected help on Friday. His campaign staff said that Jim Rassman, a retired police officer and a former Green Beret, called Kerry's office to say the senator had saved his life in Vietnam and that he wanted to see Kerry.

On Saturday, Rassman wept as he hugged Kerry at a campaign stop in Des Moines. Rassman said that on March 13, 1969, he and Kerry were in separate boats on the Bay Hap River when they came under enemy fire and Rassman was blown off his boat.

[Raya]

96. I am Shocked at the Kerry Surge. Who would have believed it!