Dean vs Kerry: Any Other Advantage Dean Needs, for Folks to Credit Kerry?

[WiseMen]

The Dean on the ground campaign was targeted squarely against John Kerry for early 2003. This fact has been widely documented by newspaper reports.

It is also a fact that most of the Campaign operatives who resigned the Kerry campaign or were fired had been very angry at Kerry for refusing to sign-off on responses to Dean’s attacks.

Kerry first decided to speak out regarding Dean’s credential and credibility issues in November.

Now Dean has developed:

1. The biggest campaign war-chest.
2. The largest campaign organization.
3. The most extensive Internet operation.

Dean has received enormous support from labor and political power houses:

1. The 1.6 million-member Service Employees International Union (SEIU), the largest union of health care workers in the country
2. The 1.4 million-member American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME, AFL-CIO.
3. Vice President Gore’s endorsement – viewed the most influential in the nation.
4. Senator Tom Harkin’s endorsement – viewed the most influential in Iowa.
5. President Jimmy Carters support – Carter being most beloved in Iowa.

Governor Dean has also been featured on the cover of all the major news magazines.

Thus, Kerry has to fight enormous obstacles:

1. The Big-Name political and movie-star endorsers of Dean have a great deal at stake in a Dean win. It is reasonable that they should pull out of all the stops to attract more media presence to the Dean "movement" and to re-energize Dean voters. Dean’s folks may not only arrive a caucus in chauffeured convenience but arrive excited.

2. The Corporate Media have much invested in the current "Official Stories" re. Dean and Clark. The script is that Dean sweeps Iowa and NH backed by a swath of endorsements from the Gore-wing and races into withering fire from shadowy forces from the Clinton-wing. There is no accepted script regarding Kerry and if you pay attention you will notice that Kerry is still relatively ignored. Kerry coverage this weekend pays almost no attention to the fundamental of his campaign but focuses on the “virtual dead heat,” John Edwards, and Kerry’s organizational weaknesses.

3. All observers note that Dean’s and Gephart’s massive organizations could totally swamp any popular surge for Kerry. From what I have heard, Kerry's troops are experienced but far fewer in numbers than those fielded by Dean and Gephart.

Question 1. I there some other conceivable advantage that Governor Howard Dean could get to improve his position against Senator John Kerry?

Question 2. Isn’t it time for Dean supporters to give John Kerry credit for a truly solid candidacy and a valid call on their support?

[Demeter]

1. Sorry, Cash Only

No credit. Voting for Endless War is a sure way to lose my interest. Rolling over for an illigitimate "President" is another. Losing the Senate is a third. Need I go on?

[dobak]

2. Kerry lost the Senate?

[Guaranteed]

26. His lack of leadership

led to the Senate loss.

[Rowdyboy]

3. Carter gave the exact same support

to John Kerry and Wesley Clark earlier. There is no Carter endorsement.

[JI7]

4. what is the purpose of this ?

many dean supporters have given credit to kerry for his campaign. and the voting hasn't even started. so we don't know what will happen.

[WiseMen]

8. Regardless of Iowa caucus, Dean and Kerry Supporter Need to

develop more respect for each other.

As a Kerry supporter I find that much of the anti-Kerry themes in the Dean campaign is extemely insiduous. Dean supporters really believe much of the spin and are going to find it difficult to rally around the Kerry effort.

This is especially important to fix going forward since within a month we may need to coalesse the campaign efforts for the overriding goal of winning the White House and Congress.

[Sensitivity]

19. I Agree with this sentiment. If Kerry collapsed next week his

supporters should be welcome with open arms

[dsc]

5. You act as if these advantages were bestowed upon him

the fact is that he, and yes I dare saw we, as his supporters worked our asses off to earn them.

Now Dean has developed:

1. The biggest campaign war-chest.

Dean earned this and so did his supporters. He got this war chest in small donations and lots of them.
2. The largest campaign organization.

Again fully earned. Many people worked their asses off to make this organization happen. It didn't just fall in his or our laps.

3. The most extensive Internet operation.

Yet again, a product of hard work fully earned.

Dean has received enormous support from labor and political power houses:

1. The 1.6 million-member Service Employees International Union (SEIU), the largest union of health care workers in the country

How did he get this endrosement? According to the people who gave it by showing them he could and would win Iowa with hard work. Every candidate had a chance and only Dean took it.

2. The 1.4 million-member American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME, AFL-CIO.

Yet another earned endorsement.

3. Vice President Gore’s endorsement – viewed the most influential in the nation.
4. Senator Tom Harkin’s endorsement – viewed the most influential in Iowa.
5. President Jimmy Carters support – Carter being most beloved in Iowa.

All three earned. In Carter's case Dean took the last morning before the caucuses off to go to church with him.

end of all quotes.

Your post exemplifies the problem many of us have with Kerry. This sense of entitlement. Kerry doesn't have these advantages becasue Dean out hustled him. Just the other day I had an exchange with a Kerry supporter who bemoaned the fact gays were supporting Dean over Kerry. As often happnes, the Kerry supporter blamed gays for not knowing all Kerry has done for them. Newsflash, most of us do know what Kerry did for us. But we also know what Dean did for us and more importantly what Dean is doing to get our support. I went to my sort of local gay pride day and only Dean had a presense. No Kerry. No kucinich and we were in his district. Dean doesn't think he is entitled to my support but is earning it. Kerry thinks he is entitled. He isn't.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

6. You still arguing that

'Kerry thinks he is entitled' yet the facts, the way Kerry is campaigning in Iowa, show that he doesn't.

[dsc]

7. He has pretty much no presense here

and he wouldn't have been campaigning in Iowa but for his tanking in NH. Kerry has oozed entilement as the post I responded to did. I am glad he has woken up and smelled the coffee.

[sangha]

12. Very weak

The "fact", if it is that, that Kerry has "no presence" there does nothing to prove your claim that Kerry feels "entitled" to win.

[dsc]

15. He sure seems to be acting that way

It is clear that his campaign felt gays would flock to him for his past record. He has shown no discernable effort to work for gay voters in Ohio. You can't then bitch that we don't support him.

[sangha]

16. Correctiona

"He sure seems to acting that way TO YOU"

"It is clear TO YOU that his campaign felt gays would flock to him for his past record."

"He has shown no discernable effort to work for gay voters in Ohio TO YOU"

You can't then bitch that we don't support him.

Wanna bet? :-)

[WiseMen]

18. Unfortunately the "Entitled" theme was part of Trippi hit strategy

[dsc]

21. Despite your implication

the word is mine not his. I have never, as in not ever, seen it in any mailing of his to me nor on the website. I used entitled and meant entitled.

[Raya]

29. Agree. Kerry is doing what he has to do to fight the good fight.

[WiseMen]

9. Dean's Campaign has bee excellent. 100% Agreed.

I know many Dean supporters who are wonderfull persons.

My point is that Kerry deserves some credit for a life of dedicated public service which, along with a good campaign, is what prepares one for higher office. It is not accidental that Kerry is doing better in Iowa public opinion.

He is a great leader for progressive causes in our nation and deserves respect and credit even from political partisans.

[dsc]

10. If you can find me dissing Kerry go ahead and post it

I have nothing but respect of Kerry's record. His campaign, on the other hand, has been pretty poor. I am glad for his sake he has figured out and started to change. BTW they are tied right now. At least statisticly speaking.

[WiseMen]

11. This is what I was hoping for. Don't see much on forum. Kerry will need

your support.

[sangha]

13. Here's dsc dissing Kerry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php#130913

Kerry oozes entitlement. Nah, that's not a diss.

[dsc]

14. He does or more accurately did

and if that is the worst you can find, and about the only example I bet, I think I match very favorably to your record in that regard.

[sangha]

17. Accurate or not, it's a diss

and you said you never did that. And I don't know if it's the worst you've done, but one thing is for sure - I didn't have to go very far to find it.

And wrt my record, you won't see me claim that I don't diss Dean.

[dsc]

20. Well I'll tell you what

When I post a thread calling Kerry supporters NAZIs like a Kerry supporter did. Then you cna lecture me. And I, though it could have been clearer meant I hadn't dissed his record and I haven't.

[drfemoe]

23. Agree completely

All of the other candidates had a shot at voters who now support Gov Dean. God knows that we've been praying for a Democrat to stand up to B*** for the past three years.

After he began campaigning, Gov Dean realized right away that it didn't matter what HE could do, but what WE could do with a politician devoted to OUR concerns, rather than his/her own election or re-election (which, admit it, is the reason many of them get up in the morning). This is where most of the other candidates have missed the point. Several of them, including Kerry, have made it their primary focus to stop Dean. Gephardt was probably the first when he put up an entire website devoted to misrepresenting facts about Dean. I don't know if it is still up, but the url made the rounds of the Dean yahoo groups and blogs last summer.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. The same ideology and enthusiasm held by many Dean supporters, the very power of his campaign, make us vulnerable to open mockery from those who are more familiar and comfortable with a top down form of government, which was not the basis of our Democracy to begin with.

It is to be "of, by and for" the People. Not "of" huge corporations, "by" special interests and "for" the benefit of politicians who desire a secure position for their lifetime, with guaranteed raises, health insurance and job promotions.

When I read your endorsement on the front page of DU, dsc, I got chill bumps. That's what Dean's campaign does to (some) people. Others may scoff at the emotional sentiments and beg for cold hard logic or some other substitute. Emotions are what make us human. If you ever take a sales course, the instructor will tell you this over and over. People don't buy a stack of bricks, they buy a HOME. We aren't supporting a candidate, we are supporting a movement. We don't idolize Dean, we crave Democracy. (Most of us really do like him as well.)

From a practical standpoint, Dean will surely win enough primaries to take it all the way to the convention. Lots of Dean volunteers will be Delegates. There may be a few who decide to support a different candidate between now and then, but I predict, not many. There certainly won't be a mass movement to another candidate because there is simply no one else who seems to *get* what this means to us. If they did, they would throw their support behind Howard Dean and stop fighting him (and us) because they would realize what an opportunity the Democratic Party has with the power of the People working for it. I hope that day will come. But should it not, we are prepared to go all the way to the convention and make one hell of an effort to make a difference because we have waited too long and suffered too much under the current misadministration.

No, I don't begrudge the accomplishments of John Kerry. I would be willing to respect him more, however, if he soon realizes that the power of the People can accomplish much much more than he ever could on his own.

[stickdog]

22. All of Kerry's disadvantages are self-inflicted. He started with every

conceivable advantage.

However, his nuanced patrician oh-so-political personality is uniquely unappealing, and he completely misread the current political climate with his consistent propensity to play everything safe.

[Raya]

24. Safe: like dumping his whole campaign management and

seemingling running it himself, and flying a helicopter to
all over the state?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Solid Candidacy? He voted for the IWR.

Which will cost him the nomination.

[WiseMen]

27. As did the "Great American" who opens events for Dean-- Tom Harkin

[Raya]

28. Any Dean supporter willing to help Kerry the underdog?