Did the Gore Commission recommend CAPPS?

[windansea]

Since Gore has endorsed Dean...I am wondering what Dean says about CAPPS

"The Commission believes that profiling is one part of a comprehensive, layered security program. As with other measures, it becomes less necessary with the introduction of efficient screening technology. Based on readily-available information, passengers could be separated into a very large majority about whom we know enough to conclude that they present little or no risk, and a small minority about whom we do not know enough and who merit additional attention. The Customs Service uses this approach successfully to better focus its resources and attention. As a result, many legitimate travelers never see a customs agent anymore -- and drug busts are way up.

The Commission supports the development and implementation of manual and automated profiling systems, such as the one under development by the FAA and Northwest Airlines. The Commission strongly believes the civil liberties that are so fundamentally American should not, and need not, be compromised by a profiling system. Consistent with this viewpoint, the Commission sought the counsel of leading experts in the civil liberties field. Those experts provided a series of recommendations found in Appendix A. The Commission recommends the following safeguards:"

it's a large document
http://www.airportnet.org/depts/regulatory/gorefinal.htm

Here's a letter from a coalition of privacy groups opposing Gore Commission reccomendations:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/faa/airline_security_letter.html

[windansea]

1. kick

:kick:

[windansea]

2. double kick

anybody??

[Democrats unite]

3. What no comments by Dean supporters?

I'm shocked!

[windansea]

4. interesting huh?

I'd just like to know more about this

[LuminousX]

7. Give us time to research it. Sorry, don't have all the answers

in my pocket.

I will say, 'Good thing Gore isn't running for President. This could be a bad thing to be associated with.'

[windansea]

9. take your time

Gore's not running but he endorsed Dean...I'd like to know Dean's position on CAPPS...

[drfemoe]

42. This is certainly something worth

looking into. Don't expect a lot of answers today, since there is a primary in IA tonight and a lot of Dean supporters are otherwise engaged. We will definitely research your concerns and post when they can be fully addressed.

Personally I try never to rush into making statements for Dean's positions. And I have NO experience defending Gore in a public forum. OTOH, I have spent many hours researching Clark's background.

I'm sure there will be an opportunity to have all your questions answered. Most likely, not today, however.

[windansea]

44. thanks drfemoe

will be patient

[windansea]

5. more info

Airlines developed the CAPPS profiling and selection system, and sold it to the government, in response to the Gore Commission proposals for mandatory passenger-bag matching. The final report of the Gore Commission, and measures adopted in its wake, emphasized profiling and selective scrutiny rather than universal inspections.

http://www.hasbrouck.org/articles/travelprivacy.html#history

[Clark Can WIN]

47. kick

:dem:

[Leilani]

6. Wonderful find!

Wonder why there are so few responses?

Hmmmm...

[windansea]

17. people are too busy smearing Clark

as an evil lobbyist who tried to supply the government with a database the Gore commission recommended

[funky_bug]

26. Nice!

Windansea, you rise to the surface among so many posters here. Unlike some of us (self included) we respond - you, my dear poster, don't just "respond", you "research."

Thanks for this one!

[windansea]

28. even a blind squirrel

can finds some nuts..heh heh

:hi:

[Clark Can WIN]

48. Oh, thanks for that laugh

much needed.:yourock:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Let's see...using your rationale...

McGovern was against Vietnam....

McGovern endorses Clark....

So....

[windansea]

10. uh huh

but I don't think vietnam is a big issue this year...CAPPS certainly seems to be for some people

[funky_bug]

27. Ouch

Point well taken, Rummy.

[stickdog]

11. CAPPS ain't CAPPS II

From Appendix A:


2. Factors to be considered for elements of the profile should be based on measurable, verifiable data indicating that the factors chosen are reasonable predictors of risk, not stereotypes or generalizations. Efforts should be made to avoid using characteristics that impose a disproportionate burden of inconvenience, embarrassment, or invasion of privacy of members of minority racial, religious or ethnic groups. Law enforcement data should be used with caution and only to the extent that the data used is a reasonable predictor of risk, because these data may be incomplete or inaccurate and may not be directly relevant to the goal of enhancing aviation security.

6. The panel is concerned that the maintenance or dissemination of records compiled in connection with an automated profiling system may invade the privacy of passengers. Reasonable restrictions on the maintenance of records and strict limitations on the dissemination of records should be developed. To the extent that records are maintained, there should be means for passengers to challenge the accuracy of personally identifiable information.

7. An independent panel should be appointed and given appropriate authority to monitor implementation of airport security procedures to insure that they do not unduly limit the exercise of civil liberties of the traveling public and do not unduly require augmented searches of the person or baggage of any particular group or groups.

8. Any profiling system should have a sunset provision which requires it to be terminated by a date certain unless an affirmative decision is made to continue use of the system. The assessment of the system should take account of its efficacy and necessity in light of improvements in detection technology as well as the civil liberties impact of the program.

I don't see anything here like:

1) color coding passengers like CAPPS II

2) not letting some passengers fly at all like CAPPS II

3) using the system to catch criminals and smugglers like CAPPS II

4) hiding the information from the person it's about like CAPPS II

5) no process of appeals like CAPPS II.

These recommendations were bad enough, and I think they go too far and can also be easily gamed by terrorist cells. However, CAPPS II is no less than Total Information Awareness doing a little cross-dressing.

[windansea]

12. I'm not an expert on this

you make some valid points

however...the fact that Gore supported CAPPS and profiling databases seems to me an endorsement of companies like Axciom...who merely provide the data to the government...and thus you could say that Gore would have no problem with Clark's lobbying efforts for Axciom.

I'm also interested in Dean's position in regards to CAPPS I and II

[salin]

13. Interesting logic

lets see... since x endorsed candidate y... and a commission in the name of x discussed program z... which by implication suggests it is legitimate to ask if candidate y endorses program z.

Pretty speculative.

Now... when supporters of candidate y don't answer quickly enough... it must be "interesting" (implied... means something... or just a little sticking a thumb on the eye.)

So by extension... should we ask if candidate q who was endorsed by singer L who once published a book considered by many to be pornographic... if candidate q supports pornography?

The game gets pretty silly - and reads more along the logic of asking others to definitively prove a baseless allegation (such as... did Gore back in 1978 really speak with Jane Fonda which must mean he supported her actions in Hanoi)... and when supporters can't find any proof against the allegation (because it is made up - and there for there is NO documentation one way or the other)... it is used by the arguer as "proof" that the made up allegation is true.

[windansea]

14. my point is

the Gore commission recommended using passenger profiling and databases BEFORE 911...many threads here have tried to paint Clark as an evil lobbyist for Axciom...Clark didn't write CAPPS I or II...all he did was lobby for a company that had the databases that were specified in these programs. Gore recommended profiling databases.

[returnable]

15. Exactly!

...Blaming or linking Clark to CAPPS I and/or II simply because he worked for Axciom is like accusing Matt Groening of supporting FOX News.

[windansea]

16. thank you for seeing my point

I will be bringing this up evry time I see a Clark was an evil Axciom lobbyist thread

[KittyWampus]

18. This Has Been My Point, Damn It!

Hart Rudman
Gore's Report on Terrorism & Airline Safety
9/11

ALL indicated that Security Measures had to be updated and improved. That Name Recognition is insufficient.

So what are the Candidates proposals?

By the way, Edwards and Kerry voted FOR the Patriot Act.

[windansea]

19. yes cryingshame

when I saw your post in the Clark Axciom thread I looked into this

kind of funny there are so few responses



:shrug:

[KittyWampus]

20. I Posted A Few Comments Then Hid That Particular Thread

I really don't need to witness the vitriol. It just tends to provoke me and I'm trying to remain civil.

[windansea]

21. probably everyone on that thread

voted for Gore...but want to crucify Clark for doing something the Gore Commission recommended

[maddezmom]

22. What is Dean's position? anyone know? n/t

[windansea]

23. haven't gotten a straight answer yet

maybe Dean will let us know after Feb 2..or in the 6th or 7th year of his administration

[KittyWampus]

24. What Are Their PROPOSALS???

What are they proposing to do to remedy the situation that the Hart Rudman Report, The Gore Commission and the events of 9/11 proved needed attention?

[windansea]

25. nobody seems to know what Dean thinks

:shrug:

[KittyWampus]

29. Waiting....

:shrug:

[windansea]

30. chirpity chirp

[returnable]

31. Give 'em some time...

...they have to run it by Gina first :hi:

:kick:

[windansea]

32. maybe by tonight n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Very, very telling

isn't it? Where are all the anti-Acxiom people? Come on folks! What is Dean's position on CAPPS I & II??? ****yawn****

:wtf:

Go, Wes!

[Jerseycoa]

34. I loved it when Gina popped up

:7

[KittyWampus]

35. Clark Supporters Should Start Threads Like This More Often

It's like we have an entire thread to ourselves!

[windansea]

36. LOL

I guess we can just play ping pong amongst ourselves till all those DUers aghast about Axciom show up with some nifty links and stuff

:toast:

[returnable]

41. Let me buy ya a round while we wait

:beer:

[windansea]

43. thanks returnable

could be a long wait...

[returnable]

46. Looks that way...

...so let's have two!

:beer: :beer:

:toast:

[bicentennial_baby]

37. Wow it's quiet in here!

Hmmmm....

[windansea]

38. the Valles Marineris of silence (large photo)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=321334

[maddezmom]

39. guess no one knows Dean's stance on this one. n/t

[windansea]

40. perhaps he doesn't have a stance

or doesn't want to lose supporters and votes by having one

Gore sure seemed to endorse the need for automated profiling systems

[KittyWampus]

45. Why Make This Just About Dean? Big Mistake IMO

Perhaps the thread title should be:

What are the Candidate's Policies on Improving Airline Security?

[windansea]

49. be my guest

use the links here if you like...the reason I used Gore in the title is because it was the Gore Commission that originally recommended CAPPS...and since a lot of posters are slamming Clark about Axciom who probably VOTED for Gore...they might want to consider the history of this issue before they throw a lot of stones