Who is the bigger enemy?

[WilliamPitt]

Poll question: Who is the bigger enemy?

[nannah]

1. poll tied

appropriate that dance partners should each get the same score.

[Nazgul35]

2. huh?

Please someon explain, those who choose it, why the DLC is the bigger enemy?

The DLC only has power should we ourselves surrender it to them! We have no control over Bush and the GOP.....

[JohnKleeb]

3. The DLC can go to hell for all I care but

Its Bush and Co who are the real enemy.

[eyesroll]

4. The DLC in and of itself is not bad

There are plenty of good people in the DLC. Its leadership is awful.

They still don't suck as badly as Bush and 95% of the GOP.

[Zynx]

5. Dubya, but this is a loaded question and I think everyone will agree.

The reason is that I firmly believe we need to get the DLC out of power in order to beat Bush. Under the DLC's leadership, our party's position is weakening and will continue to do so unless we make a stand.

[wyldwolf]

6. Most of my favorite dems are DLC..

...

[poskonig]

7. The correct answer is Howard Dean.

Bush smush........... I thought you knew this, Will!

:crazy:

[PATRICK]

8. DLC issue bears studying

We keep getting the need for a general opposition to the DLC whereas almost all the party politicians congregate there to some good purpose. However the problem is two-fold. As with any organization there is the power struggle for the heads of the committee organization- sometimes a far cry from any elected officials. This is the safe center of the wagon train pretending to be strategists. The schmoes reveling in the orgy of party self-destruction and contest for party turf are the problem and have been named before. Unfortunately, the well known names and spokepersons most remembered are various Senators like Bayh or Rockefeller. Notably those most vocal themselves are on shaky electoral turf which leads to problem two.

The philosophy that gloats on "success" is itself one for surviving in hostile ground by accomodation, enthusiastic compromise and the dubious rational strategy of trying to prove we can be more competent and principled by mere example minus most poltical hardball skills. It is also nakedly a run for the money since sailing those flat lukewar seas no popular wind will fill the sails. Which- in GOP typical win-win crime scenario- provides security and success with plutocrats not democrats.

Oh yeah, and keep the traditional base handy for that extrtra something needed to win elections. Politically it is la-la-land and only the necessity of career politicians in the most powerful people's party to adhere to the organizations of support maintains the illusion.

Not surprisingly some of theme actaully like to think of themselves as real republicans as- free from the constraint of competition and thepeople's democracy- the lords of the GOP indulge in nervous then rapacious looting and power consolidation in the good old fashioned way. Force, crime, money and demagoguery. Just as politicians cling to the major parties to thriive so do most of the money minded donors to the GOP, regardless of the dangers, because the those who betrayed their base are too weak to trust with their vaunted competence and shallow hold on the masses.

The political landscape is thus insane no small measure for putting our smallest minds and smallest moral statures at dead center in the rabbit hutch circling itself with competent politicians who give and are taken as shields for the shaky. In their reactions against the Reaganite years wrong choices were made and successes misunderstood.
The worst of our party, like the GOP can clothe themselvers with power and money all they want. Our party is ridiculous without supporting people populist issues top to bottom. The GOP is simply monstrous.

None of their "smart people" know how to galvanize and win elections without messiahs. Hype and hypocrisy rule. None know enough history, few put common sense above timidity, to relaize we have catapulted into a witches' brew of 1930's Germany with practically zero justification among a prosperous, peace-loving populopus in the most powerful nation on earth. Which is funny since what the GOP would really like is to be the Kaiser not the Fuerher- although both were bloody losers for corporate rule. The sign of their rational weakness is that they must turn to crime, thuggery, ignorance and fanaticism to thrive. But the luminaries at the DLC really must think this is a Manichean struggle with 50% of ordinary people naturally GOP true beleivers or that the wafflers in between are a source of strength.

If you can't play the game get out of the league. It is obvious that problem one- the scmoe Republicrats who are the shadow bureaucrats of the Party clings to number two- faith(lucrative)in the defeat of democracy maybe thinking when the sun comes up all the bad stuff will go away and they will be the single party running to make the world safe for acceptable, efficient corporatism.

If we did win and seem to affirm our own leeches we would still have a big problem and still no true Democratic Party. They have to be purged with a firmness they cleverly refuse to let anyone in the party practice. I think that is happening and you cannot tar all politically obliged or duped members with the same brush. Being dupes or compromised however is a corruption of many a decent Democrat Congessman and Senator and renders their political skills dubious,discouraging for the Party faithful. The head of the weed is not named here often, nor are the roots separated from the rest of the Party. Those roots areideological surrender and money.

[Scott Lee]

9. Sink both George Bushhole and the DLC to the bottom of the sea

And I'd be one happy cat.

[curse10]

10. GOP and the Bush Junta!

duh!

[BootinUp]

11. Cut off the arm to save the body?

Thats what some here would like to do. Myself, I feel we need all democrats to be stronger, we need a few greens, and independents too.

[HFishbine]

12. If the commanders are incompetent

there is no hope for beating the enemy. Time for a soldier revolt.

[Donna Zen]

13. "The Two Percent Solution"

Defining the DLC, an organization within an organization, is difficult to do if you want soundbites. There is a reason this organization came into being. I just breezed through the opening chapters of "The Two Percent Solution," which includes a detailed description of the policy differences between "old" Democrats and "new" Democrats, along with the weaknesses and strengths of both factions. If you truly want to understand what is going on, I would advise you to read the book. Matthew Miller has seen the beast from the inside and has much to say.

The DLC is not the enemy, nor do they have the whole solution. The party suffers from losing too many big ones. While there are those here who have delighted in bashing the DLC, I wonder how many understand the real problems we face? The DLC, which may be timid and ineffectual regarding the pushing of a people-centered program, does not equal PNAC.

[Paragon]

14. Take 'em both out, one at a time...

Nice and orderly. :D

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. A loaded question. Bush is the enemy we know. The DLC

represents the old thinking of the party bosses. The Clinton idea of "triangulation", of becoming more like republicans to rob them of their causes. The problem being, of course, that becoming "more like republicans", or "more centrist" if you prefer, is like being a "little" pregnant. By doing so, you become republicans.

So, I answered the DLC (or, what it represents) as the "bigger" enemy.

It isn't "the DLC" that must be done away with, but the idea that we can only win if become republicans.

[thinkahead]

16. Could you add Will Pitt as an option

;)

[Closer]

30. It's there

look again. ;-)

[killbotfactory]

17. The GOP...

But the DLC approach is a GOP enabling failure.

[Don Claybrook]

18. This is a disingenuous question, akin to...

Which is worse: your spouse who beats you (but "loves" you, at least in some perverse way) or a madman that comes in to kill your entire family?

Answer: Clearly the madman killer is worse, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking for a divorce lawyer in the meantime.

[ibegurpard]

19. Yup

It's really sad to see Mr. Pitt reducing himself to this.

[wndycty]

20. Damn bash Will Pitt. . .

. . .because you don't like the question. Some people need to grow up.

[thinkahead]

22. Will Pitt needs a good bashing now and then

but mostly, he's a good guy :)

[thinkahead]

21. you should add one word here

"It's really sad to see Mr. Pitt repeatedly reducing himself to this.

[robbedvoter]

24. It is an excellent question, since it reveals the real priorities.

Some may even see the light after this poll.

[thinkahead]

27. it reveals the real priorities

of the person asking the question. Of course a majority of us are going to see Bush as the larger threat (as I voted). But it doesn't diminish the need for change at the top which has been failing and ignoring the base for too long now.

Our number one priority is the defeat of Bush. Dean is a centrist who has captured the passion of the base, and if the DLC wasn't so scared about saving it's own hide - and by default allowing the GOP to frame the debate, we could slaughter Bushco in 2004 based on the miserable record they have obviosuly accumulated.

But hey, what do I know anyway.

[robbedvoter]

31. So, you run against the DLC. My man runs against W. let's see

which is the better strategy, shall we? Thaking the country back vs taking it forward - what will the voters choose?

[Don Claybrook]

28. Well, I could agree with you to the extent

that we'll all need to get our act together and support the nominee when that time comes. I think all but the most rabid agree on that point. The question right now, of course, is who that nominee will be. Will Pitt is doing his best to sway people to vote for (presumably) John Kerry. And that's fair. Just as it's fair for me to point out that I don't think the question is pertinent.

For what it's worth, and because of some of the replies above this one, I'll state that I generally value what Will Pitt has to say, and I think he's really making a good and beneficial dent in the world of political journalism. But that has almost no bearing on the persuasive speaking he does in support of his candidate while he's in "campaign mode". We all do it, and we all get rebutted by supporters of the other candidates. That's the way it goes, and so long as it stays within boundaries that most of us respect, then we're all cool.

Thanks.

[robbedvoter]

23. Those 13 votes exemplify what's wrong with DU. Fortunatelly

The majority still sees the real goal.
I just left a coalition of groups in NYC - gathered to protest W & his convention in NYC. Some started with "protest the DNC convention in Boston". I told them to try a different venue - and keep this on the common ground. They didn't, so the Dems left.
No DLC fan here - but the lack of perspective of those 13 is mindboggling!

[Terwilliger]

25. Who's more responsible for Iraq war...Saddam or Bush?

that's the same sort of question and gets the same sort of answer

Yes, Bush and his Republican buddies are bad, bad, bad...now just who in the Democratic party is responsible for losing to that brainless twerp and his minions? The progressives?

[JVS]

26. Yes. Progressives are to blame.

Too many people refused to shut up and sit in the back. The result was Nader getting just enough votes that Bush could steal the election. Or so the story goes.

[robbedvoter]

33. I know you don't think that removing W is all that important

Now, who are the other 13 and what candidate do they support? Don't tell me. I know the answer to this one!

[imhotep]

29. I knew you were a DLC apologist

finally some proof.

[wyldwolf]

32. I must be, too...

[robbedvoter]

34. Yeah, you got him! The nerve - to want to fight Bushco rather than DLC!

Where do you think you are, Will Pitt? DU or sumptin?

[arewethereyet]

35. I prefer to think that ignorance of the truth is the real enemy

I guess you could point that cannon at lots of places.