I am begging you all

[dsc]

Please, please, please stop calling people who went to Iowa for Dean Stormtroopers. When I was a sophomore in high school I had a roll in our production of The Diary of Anne Frank. I played Mr. Van Dan. I did a lot of research for the roll and found out how many gay and lesbians, in addition to Jews died in the Holocost. The final night of the play I broke out crying when it was done but since I was still closeted I couldn't even tell my friends in the cast why. In short, while I don't have literal ancestors who died in the Holocost I do have figurative ones.

I wanted badly to go to Iowa but couldn't afford it. My car took up my extra money so I am going to Michigan instead. I am not a Storm Trooper. I am a citizen, and one that a Storm Trooper would have put in a camp, who is working to affect change in my country. It is profoundly insulting to read of me and my friends, and I know many who went to Iowa, being called NAZIs. Even if you think Dean doesn't deserve better. We do. There shouldn't have to be a rule about this. It should be common courtesy. Sadly it isn't.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

1. Are we allowed to mention the fact

that the people in Iowa are calling them that?

[bobbieinok]

6. isn't it the MEDIA calling them that??? IA and national

...

[bearfartinthewoods]

51. i think it started with the 'perfect storm' theme

didn't that come from team dean? it's still a very unfortunate label.

[Terwilliger]

8. Anti-Dean people in Iowa?

Maybe Skinner could design a rule for them, too.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. lol

[indigo32]

24. The people I met in Iowa were far better than that

even the Republicans were very polite to me.

[Jerseycoa]

2. I thought it was the press

who is calling Dean supporters that name.

[Democrats unite]

3. All is fair in love war & politics...

I agree with you it is disgusting, along with some of the other crap that is being posted here.

I guess what my point is before you say something, put yourself in the other persons shoes & see how they fit. What you might find funny & amusing could be detrimental to someone else & vice versa.

[Fridays Child]

4. Eloquent. Thank you.

Folks, let's reserve the Nazi references for Republicans--the true bearers of that awful legacy.

[WillyT]

14. Exactly M_P, Leave That Reference To The BFEE Machine, Please !!!

Once again, we slander our own. And then proceed to whine about how we can't win elections.

:puke:

I'm with you on this dsc.

[Rowdyboy]

5. I would hit alert the minute I saw any DUer use that phrase

I would hope everyone would...

[Khephra]

9. DU GD: Primary rule #5

5. When discussing any Democratic presidential primary candidate, please refer to that person by their real name; do not use any rude, condescending, or otherwise inappropriate alternate names for any Democratic presidential primary candidate. When discussing a broad group of supporters or opponents of any Democratic presidential primary candidate, do not use any rude, condescending, or otherwise inappropriate alternate names for them. Forbidden nicknames include, but are not limited to, the following: "Deaniacs," "Clarkies," "Kerry Haters," etc.

[Cuban_Liberal]

7. It has no place on a progressive board.

I don't give a damn if it's a direct quote, but to even use the term 'storm troopers' in connection with a Democratic candidate is beyond the pale, IMO. I have alerted on every single thread using the term, except this one.

:grr:

[ProfessorPlum]

10. Peace, dsc

you've done yeoman's work here at DU and for Democrats and for the Dean campaign, all of which will bring about a better day when fewer people than ever will have to worry about the oppression of the minority by the majority. I second your request.

[jpgray]

11. Yes. Unless it's in a news article, I can't imagine that it belongs here

All the candidates have fervent supporters, and everyone is trying to get out the vote. I question the objectivity of news articles that call *anyone's* supporters stormtroopers.

[Skinner]

12. I'm pretty sure I've only seen this on DU once.

And the thread got deleted. :shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. The NY Times mentioned it in an article the other day, and CBS News today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=321464
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=136976

[Skinner]

28. Gotcha.

If someone tries to be clever and use these quotes to be deliberately inflammatory, then we'd do something about it. But I'm not going to tell people that they can't post exceprts from the New York Times or CBS news.

[dsc]

32. that isn't the point

They shouldn't exist for you to delete. It is one candidates supporters who have done this. And if he does win the nomination I intend to print out the profiles of the people who have done this and tell that candidate's campaign to ask for those people's help.

[Skinner]

34. Sure would be nice for it not to get posted at all.

But I think that is pretty unrealistic.

And it's not all coming from one side. These types of attacks have been posted by all sides for months. One side calls the other cultists. And then one side calls the other freepers. None of us is innocent here. Ultimately, I think the problem is that many people are willing to give people on their own side a pass, while taking extreme offense at the behavior of their opponents.

I know many of you aren't particularly inclined to believe me on this. But I've been refereeing this pissing match for a while now and the pattern is clear. I think the truest thing that can be said is that both sides have some civil people and some rude people. It is just human nature.

[dsc]

37. This is qualatively different

Yes I was not amuzed by cultist. I didn't post a thread like this about that word. I was not amused by several exchanges yet didn't post threads like this (I did post requests for civility on both sides and one time directed at one campaign). This is another matter. It should be common sense. Clearly it isn't to the point that people are defending it (not you obviously). That is sad.

[Khephra]

15. And people wonder why Dean supporters have left DU

(edited in response to Skinner's above post)

Well, if you've only seen one...then I'll have to imagine it's not as bad as it might be...but still, that is the exact same crap that I know has made many of my fellow supporters leave here.

[Skinner]

17. If you have been called a nazi or a cultist since last Thrusday...

you should hit alert. Because the new rules in the GD:2004 forum are very clear about this.

[Khephra]

20. I just edited my response after I saw your response

Believe me, I do. A few of those cultist accusations come through every so often. Or they get right up to the line and stop.

[Skinner]

We can't catch everything.

That's why we encourage people to hit the alert link.

I'm trying my best to be sensitive to everyone's concerns. Belive me, I really am.

[Khephra]

30. I know, Dude, I know

I don't fault you. I fault the people who had to stoop so low as to insult other DUers in that way. Everything is fair (pretty much) for the canidates, but people here should have had more respect for others.

(Clark supporters also got a raw deal with the "murderer" shit too, just to be fair.)

[Skinner]

31. Thanks. (nt)

[Kathleen04]

16. You're absolutely right..

that kind of stuff is just inappropriate.

[deutsey]

19. Stormtroopers?

Everyone should be offended by this, regardless who is making the reference and who is the target of it.

And, may I just add, that I've been at DU a long time and have seen numerous times people here snidely refer to the "sheeple" who are too concerned about their SUVs or whatnot to participate.

People are motivated to get involved in the process, and enthusiastically so, and now their equated with stormtroopers?

Sickening.

[Clark4VotingRights]

21. I agree with Democrats unite and dsc.

It's a pretty crappy term, and it's likely planted by Rove's minions
and obligingly perpetuated by the media. It's beyond nasty.

Let's try not to let the regime frame the discourse any more than
they have already (which is a lot). We need to at least be aware
of when they're doing it (constantly).


"So if you go on Fox News -- 'fair and balanced' -- two liberals, two conservatives, and one commentator who is asking the questions, and the question is, 'Are you in favor of the President’s tax relief program or are you against it?' -- it doesn’t matter what you say. If you say, 'I’m against tax relief,' you’re still evoking that framing. You’re still in their frame, and all that it automatically brings with it: what kinds of policies are good, who is bad, and so on. That’s how Fox News works. It frames the issues from a conservative perspective. Once the issue is framed, if you accept the framing, if you accept the language, it’s all over."

http://www.workingforchange.com/column_lst.cfm?AuthrId=53

Thanks dsc.

[bain_sidhe]

22. What were they calling themselves?

I know there was some reference by the Dean campaign about the Dean supporters going to Iowa being "The Perfect Storm" - maybe that's where it came from? What did the Dean supporters call themselves?

[deutsey]

29. "Iowa Stormers"

As in (from the Dean Blog):

Iowa Stormers Rob Reiner and Martin Sheen write in the Boston Globe that

this campaign has grown above and beyond a discussion of the important issues that concern us. It has become a movement that is allowing the American people to reclaim their political process.
******************

Janeane Garofolo has also been seen wearing a Stormer orange cap.

I can't imagine anyone here thinking these three are stormtroopers.

[arewethereyet]

23. imagine you are a native Iowan

and every four years your state, city, county or town sees this great influx of people from somewhere else who want to tell you how you ought to feel and what you ought to do.

yes, the term is inappropriate but I can certainly understand how they feel.

I would like to see the importing of staff stopped. Its wrong.

[Kolesar]

36. Oh, you mean like R.A.G.B.R.A.I.?

www.ragbrai.org

You would like to see the "importing of staff stopped" because it is wrong? Well, you ain't gonna get your wish.

[arewethereyet]

56. I realize I won't get my wish. Doesn't make me any less right.

n/t

[Democrats unite]

25. I would also like to point out people here thinks it's ok to call...

Republicans storm troopers.

Stop calling Clark a Republican! It's wrong you know it's wrong, it's only inflamatory & I can't believe how many people get away with it here!

[Skinner]

26. We also haven't been letting people do this since last Thursday.

In case anyone missed the interrupt page when you hit post, we've got new rules here. And the moderators have been enforcing them very vigorously.

So, again, if you see this type of thing, just hit the alert link and then give the mods some time to deal with it.

[Democrats unite]

27. Thank you skinner...

I did not know this.

[Kolesar]

33. A love letter to CBS from Spike

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/19/politics/main594091.shtml

This was a rather poorly written article. It lacked continuity from one paragraph to another.

What stood out clearly in the text, however, was labeling Howard Dean's supporters as "stormtroopers". That is a very specific reference to political soldiers who served the Third Reich. I find it truly twisted and manipulative that you would use such a term to describe grassroots volunteers who are working on Howard Dean's election campaign. In the process of labeling them such, are you trying to start a message that will resonate throughout the media? That result is quite likely.

Your writer should be ashamed of producing such hateful writing and your editor should be admonished for letting it get into your news website.

==0==
There is a feedback link at the bottom of the CBS page with that nasty article.

[Bolo Boffin]

35. I don't think this is a reference to WWII Stormtroopers

There were the Star Wars stormtroopers too, which have probably appropriated the term in most people's minds.

That doesn't mitigate the insulting nature of the term, though. It shouldn't have a place here.

[Nederland]

38. Agree

When I hear the word 'Stormtrooper', I think of Star Wars, not Nazi Germany. Perhaps it depends on how old you are...

[Kolesar]

40. yes, I've heard that history instruction in school is pretty lame today

In the 1970s, we had instructors who actually encouraged us to learn about the biggest war in world history. Too bad young'uns missed out and didn't learn nothin'.

Note heavy sarcasm. I think you know the difference between George Lucas' fictional characters and the Third Reich. I don't buy the sly act.

[Nederland]

45. You think I'm lying?

That's nice to know.

FYI, I just walked down my cube row and asked 6 people what first popped into their head when I said 'Stormtrooper'. 5 of the 6 said Star Wars. All but 2 knew that 'Stormtrooper' also referred to Nazi Germney, but that it wasn't the first thing that popped into their head.

I'm not sure why I mention all this, because you'll probably just say I'm lying...

[bearfartinthewoods]

52. ease up, please.....the connection is there.

how many hours of lucas vrs ww2 history? it's a natural connection.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. Blame the Dean campaign, which came up with the 'Perfect Storm' theme.

Duh, is it really such a big surprise that this nickname came about?

[Kolesar]

41. Uh, yeah

you cannot "blame the Dean campaign" for this. Get real. Go read my letter to CBS. The stinking network is supposed to have editors.

[indigo32]

42. Do you honestly think the media won't smear Kerry and his

supporters too, should he win the nomination or even pull to front runner? Please. This is NOT the Dean campaigns fault.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

44. Your question is silly. I don't trust the media anymore than you do.

I'm just saying, the only reason we are talking about this at all, the only reason anyone ever called the Dean volunteers this, is because the Dean campaign dubbed the volunteer effort 'the Perfect Storm'.

Turn it into an anti-Dean conspiracy if you want.

[indigo32]

47. It's no conspiracy

you just don't like Howard Dean. No big deal.
I'm just not the kind of person who would laud smears against another Democratic candidate and his supporters when I know they can't be trusted.

[AntiCoup2K4]

43. And the Star Wars stormtroopers were different from the Nazi's how?

Sure they had cooler uniforms, but they were soldiers of a fascist empire doing the bidding of a murderous dictator.

Neither comparison is flattering.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

46. They were just cloning around.

[Nederland]

49. Ouch (nt)

[Maddy McCall]

48. In his speech yesterday in Davenport, Dean called them "stormers"

Don't know if that matters, but he called them "stormers".

[copithorne]

50. Anyone volunteering for any of the Democratic Candidates

Is a true patriot.

Thank you for your service to our country! Don't mind the noisemakers who can only be cynical!

[mandyky]

53. I am a Dean supporter and use the term Storm Trooper

as a shorthand name for Perfect Storm troopers. If that ticks people off, I am sorry in advance, but to me it is a rather trivial thing.
Weren't there storm troopers in Star wars? Golly jeez, I want Dean to win, I don't like seeing him bashed, but golly geepers.

[dsc]

55. wow

I honestly have no clue what to say to this. But I will try. First, the term is Perfect Stormer not Perfect storm trooper. There is a big difference. Second, yes there were storm troopers in Star Wars working for Darth Vader. There is a reason that term was chosen for them. And it wasn't that the term evoked good things.

[Tom Rinaldo]

54. Absolutely 100% Agree. It is beyond ugly.

Just opened this thread to see what it was, or I would have commented earlier. I fully back every word you said, and appreciate your openness in explaining to many exactly how insulting that term can be. Dean does deserve much much better as a matter of fact, and I'm not even backing him, but those like you who are so committed to for your candidate are the life blood of Democracy, not its enemy.

I would always defend you against that type of malicious attack when I can, all I would ask in return is that you sometimes gently remind those around you, that Dean supporters are not the ONLY Americans who are fighting to take back our country.

[auburnblu]

57. Amen

The constant use of Nazi as a casual insult goes beyond being insensitive to Jews and others i.e. gays who were victims of the Nazi regime. Perhaps posters on here will get beyond using insults like this and think about what they are saying. I doubt it, but I can always hope.