Establishment vs. Anti-Establishment.

[dusty64]

I know Iowa only picks the candidate about half the time, but I find it very interesting what seems to be going on there. Of course the polls are all over the map, but some candidates favored by the Democratic establishment appear to be doing better than had been expected. Does anyone have any idea how this may possibly effect the general election should one of them get the nomination?

I for one, have been attracted to the couple of candidates that are challenging the status quo. All have skeletons in their closet, but who doesn't. What I like is the desire to shake things up in the party, God knows they need it. From my perspective the last three years have offered little in the way of true opposition from our Democratic leadership. Time and time again the extreme right's agenda has been enacted against the will of the People and something needs to be done about it. I personally have lost a great deal of respect for many that I once held in high regard. I really do not wish to become involved in an argument about this, what I wonder is the fallout should one of the Establishment candidates attain the nomination.

I am a bit older and much more cynical and whomever gets the nomination WILL get my vote, the level of support will depend on the nominee. Many younger voters seem to be driven by their support of what they see as fresh voices outside the party structure. Are their votes transferrable or will they go third party or not at all on Election Day? I'm concerned, whomever gets the nomination will have to do their best to get the respect and support of this VERY important voting group.

[arewethereyet]

1. much of that was primary talk

the biggest outsiders are cozyist with insiders so that one has already gone out the window.

[dusty64]

2. I'm confused,

I don't know exactly what you mean.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

3. the only outsider is Al Sharpton

everyone else is an "insider" in one way or another.

[dusty64]

4. This is true, but

some are seen as willing to buck the leadership when they are wrong while others are not. The parties establishment definitely has their favorites to win and others they do NOT wish to see win. It seems like more of an establishment vs. anti-establishment than outsider vs. insider. It has been my impression that this willingness to shake up the Democratic establishment has been a large factor in getting many young and first time voters involved in the process.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. yes, "some are seen" as willing to buck the leadership

but I don't think that's the way it works. We have a lot of egotistical politicians itching for the chance to take on Bush, and they will all "buck the leadership" to win, because they want to be the new leadership.

All the rest is posturing.

[arewethereyet]

5. Ok I'll try to explain

Dr Dean latched onto whe biggest insider avaialable, Al Gore et al. Were he really distainful of Washington insiders he would have not done this.

General Clark, same rhetoric about outsider but who does he get to associate himself with ? Clinton, McGovern et al.

And their campaign staffs are chock-a-block with Beltway banditos as well.

What I'm saying is that rhetoric is just that and has been from the start.

[dusty64]

6. Ok, I get

what you're saying and thanks for the input. Gore is an insider, but from the shabby treatment he seems to have gotten from the powers that be I don't think he's establishment. They ALL have insider ties, but I do think there are some the DLC and other power brokers are afraid of cause they would diminish their control and rightly so. Many new voters seem to be excited by this possibility and I'm wondering if this excitment, money, and support will be transferred to a nominee who is seen as more a part of this Democratic establishment.

[sandnsea]

7. I'm looking for tried and true action

I'm looking for someone who was against the worst of Clintonism, not for somebody who stood by it. I'm looking for someone who has stood for civil rights consistently, before it was popular and stayed true when it wasn't. I'm looking for somebody who has taken on George Bush every step of the way, even though some didn't hear or have forgotten. I'm looking for somebody who holds the idealism of my youth in their heart, but knows it takes damn hard work to get it done. The only one who fits the bill is John Kerry. Labels are fun and ranting is fun, America always loves it. It hasn't fixed anything in 25 years though, so I'm going for the tried and true this time. Somebody who has actually done the hard work to make change. Everything doesn't happen at once, but I want to make sure we keep moving forward on a path I can be proud of.