Kerry joins fight in Ohio... A Jesse Jackson inspired flip flop?

[Used and Abused]

He didn't seem to care until Jesse Jackson spoke up today. I guess this is all about holding down the black vote in '08. Sadly, it's way too late. I want a leader who will take action *before* someone calls him out on his wrongdoings publicly.

Flame if you must.

[illflem]

1. What makes you think JJ is the reason he came out?

Could it just be that more concrete fraud evidence has come up?

[genius]

32. So is he officially unconceding? What about Florida?

If he becomes President, he owes it all to Cobb. I would never vote for Cobb but right now, I think Cobb would make a pretty good President.

[lonestarnot]

2. You do not know what has taken place behind the actions we are

currently seeing and if it wasn't for the net we wouldn't even be seeing this.

[BUSHOUT]

3. How is it a flip flop? Did he previously say he WOULDN'T fight in Ohio?

Gimme a break.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. I don't let idiots from the opposition frame the debate

Therefore, I would never characterize John Kerry or any other politician as a 'flip flopper' simply because he changed a position based on a change in the evidence presented. I call that being flexible and a critical thinker, as opposed to a stubborn fool who sticks to his position because it makes him look 'strong and consistent' even if it is dead wrong.

[ohioan]

9. Kerry didn't change his position

He always said he wanted to be sure all the votes were counted. This lawsuit is a concrete effort by Republicans to stop the vote counting. Kerry is stepping in to counter them. He's being entirely consistent.

[Used and Abused]

12. But the timing

RIGHT after Jesse Jackson calls him on it. He also conceded RIGHT AFTER the right wing talking heads started calling for "nation healing."

[ohioan]

16. Purely coincidence

The motion to intervene was filed a couple of hours after Jackson's comments (which DIDN'T call Kerry on this, by the way). Preparing to intervene in a court case is a complicated matter - it takes way more than a couple of hours to do. There's no way that Kerry, his advisers, and lawyers could have done all of the decisionmaking, drafting and preparation involved in something like this within a few hours after Jackson's comments.

This is just a coincidence. If he had filed it yesterday, people would have claimed that some other event triggered it.

Why not just be happy that Kerry is doing what so many people have been begging him to do? Why second guess every move he makes?

Jeez.

[zann725]

34. I think that Jesse's choice to speak up now...

was done in full knowledge of, and IN coordination with, Kerry's people planning to join the Ohio lawsuit this week. My guess IS Jesse was probably ASKED by Kerry's people to go to Ohio, and 'warm up' the "F" word in the media...so that Kerry joining the lawsuit would be seen less favorably in MSM. Jesse is certainly the best choice to communicate with the voters in Ohio who were disenfranchised by the election.

Or maybe Jesse's involvement and visibility finally goaded Kerry's people into visibility.

Plus, we ARE getting close to the Electoral Vote deadline, and Ohio vote certification...and KERRY has been biding his time, as he had to, until all the cards were on the table.

Whatever, the point should be that they ARE involved NOW. And that's what matters!

[LittleClarkie]

13. I barely made it through the campaign listening to that crap

Until I would almost burst into tears when faced with "flip-flopper."

It was so damn childish. One of my co-workers, upon seeing my button, proceeded to bounce up and down on his toes and chant "flip flop flip flop flip flop" while dancing around the floor in a little circle. I'm talking about a 50+ year old, stout-framed man. It was the most ridiculous, maddening sight I have ever seen. Maddening because his mind was closed before I could even get my mouth open. Ridiculous because he looked and sounded like a little boy.

If I have to hear that phrase for the next four years (and from a Dem for Pete's sake!) I am seriously going to have a nervous breakdown.

[Used and Abused]

14. The word flip flop

Is what honestly came to my mind when I heard his premature concession on Nov 3.

[LittleClarkie]

30. I warned you.

I work in a mailroom you know. Ya wouldn't want me to go... postal now... would ye?

[WyLoochka]

37. Then you have been

"used and abused" by the right wingers and show yourself to be highly susceptible to brainwashing. Nothing to brag about.

Kerry has not been a "flip flopper" ever. The pukes bald faced lied about his Senate voting record. It was an easy one to put over on the ignorant who have no clue whatsoever as to how the Senate actually works - to wit - yourself...

As to all this Kerry bashing - this month later quarter backing is absolutely disgusting and very short-sighted. It also plays right into Rove's hands.

We know now, from all the very time consuming number crunching, that the fraud was very dispersed and incrementally small here, there, and everywhere so as to be difficult to detect (especially within the crucial few hours from evening 11/2 to midday 11/3) and almost impossible to prove over the long haul.

We are getting somewhere here. To be sure it's a slow slog and a really really tough uphill battle, but it was designed to be that way by the fraudsters. RoveCo is counting on us to give into our frustrations with them and turn those frustrations on our own and tear Kerry apart ourselves and many of "us" are obliging. Why?

[GRLMGC]

26. Ewww

too bad you were at work. If I were you, I'd have a hard time containing the urge to punch him in the face. I wouldn't do it but my fist would clench :evilgrin:

[kerry2win]

5. I think Kerry has no choice after the concession

to stay behind the scenes until when or if something was uncovered that could possibly change the results. It now seems to me that reasonable evidence exists in their mind. Kerry can't come out full force until the recount is done and results change or fraud is uncovered.

[ohioan]

6. Oh, please

I sincerely doubt that Kerry made such an important decision, instructed his lawyers to proceed, and then his lawyers managed to draft, proof, get approval on and file their pleading all within about 3 hours after Jesse Jackson's comments.

You're giving Jackson too much credit and Kerry too little. This has clearly been in the works for a while and doesn't have all that much to do with what Rev. Jackson said - especially since he didn't even comment on this particular case.

Why can't people just be happy that Kerry is doing what so many people here insisted that he do? It seems like some folks here just can't be satisfied, no matter what he does.

[goclark]

33. I'm with you all the way!

I'm really glad you cleared up the point about Jesse Jackson.

Some were trying to suggest that Jesse and Kerry were not on the same wave length.

I'm truly glad that Kerry and others are getting into this mess.

It needs to be out in the open and get Media attention.

Thank you for doing your part to bring us around.

We are all hurting so much from the election.

We are strong, we are ready to stand and March!

[WyLoochka]

40. Two weeks ago we were

bashing Jackson for going on teevee and saying Bush won "fair and square." I guess he thought so at the time, but has been educated with developing info since. Our job is to educate the rest of the people, not rip the guy we elected to shreds.

I have long thought of Jackson as somewhat of a "thunder stealer." His super-sized ego has complicated things many times. He's often times unhelpful while trying to be helpful and, as a consequence, we end up standing in the same spot where we started out. Jesse Jackson is no Martin Luther King. He's not an inspiring leader or preacher, and he's no Al Sharpton either, when it comes to "framing" issues in plain understandable language.

Jesse ought to retire and allow space for others, who could be more effective, to step up.

[unblock]

7. why promote banana republican talking points?

let's talk about why shrub and his minions felt they had to commit fraud if god had personally elected him?

[Spiffarino]

11. Oh yes. They have so much faith that

...they have to cheat to win and start Armageddon all by themselves.

Who needs the Lord when you've got Rove? :puke:

[MatrixEscape]

24. Speaking of Rove ...

Now isn't he special? Could he be .... is he .... SATAN?

I can't think of a better candidate for the Great Deceiver incarnate than Karl.

[henslee]

8. deleted by me.

[LittleClarkie]

15. self deleting too

thanks dear.

[212demop]

10. I don't care why he did it- I'll take it

The point is that our votes are counted- and if we need Kerry to throw his weight behind the effort, I'll worry about his motives later. The results are my concern today.

[henslee]

17. This is a shameful, mean spirited thread. Prob. says a lot about who you

are. And You knew it was, otherwise you would never have written "flame if you must"

[Used and Abused]

21. I'm very bitter about the situation

This thread reflects my feelings about the situation.

[WyLoochka]

43. I'm bitter about anyone

who lashes out in bitterness at fellow Dems.

We are up against a monstrous, gigantic, propaganda machine - take your bitterness out on those who deserve it - the perps who built the machine - not those who have been perped upon.

[Cheswick2.0]

18. he's doing the right thing now

that is all that matters.

[robbedvoter]

19. Why call it a flip flop? Finally something decent - why does it bother you

And who cares what motivated it? I salute it. Sulk and bitch if you must.

[henslee]

20. Because its a worthless, vindictive thread.

[LittleClarkie]

22. Oh robbedvoter, thank you

I know you've been among the most upset. Thank you for taking the campaign's gesture at face value.

I can't believe a few people are still trying to piss in our collective Wheaties.

[robbedvoter]

41. I want votes to count - not to make some silly point. If Kerry does it

I'll be the first to cheer!

[Used and Abused]

23. It's just a pattern I began to notice

Right after the election went down. He made a quick concession in order to appease Republicans, now he is re-entering the scene because someone probably mentioned to him the anger that was brewing. I'm sick of it. Why can't he just be himself without waiting to hear approval from others? Anyone but Kerry in '08!

[ohioan]

25. Nice to know you can read Kerry's mind

and know his motivations for his actions.

What a wonderful gift to have!

[blm]

46. Who ARE you? Your post could have been written by Sean Hannity, himself.

,

[WyLoochka]

50. OH BS - he can "re-enter the scene"

only because we now know some things about the wide scale fraud. Although many suspected, due to the nature of how the fraud was conducted, no one had any really good, convincing numbers, ready at hand, to support that suspicion 11/3. No one.

The concession that helped put us into this deep hole in the first place was Gore's. Now that is the guy who should never ever ever have conceded. And he did it in order to "appease" the Repubs, the DLCers and the infotainers!

His totally unnecessary concession precedent, with very strong evidence right in front of all of our faces that he won, had the effect of really putting Kerry over the barrel this go round, when the evidence was just not blatantly out in front the way it was in '00.

So much for the woulda shoulda coulda. It's the uphill battle from today on that matters. We have simply got to hang together and cooperate, all of us, and hone in on the goal of securing totally transparent election processes or arm up for a bloody revolution down the road.

[TheDonkey]

27. He said in his online video he expected all the votes to count fairly

Kerry is just going under the radar. No need for rethugs to start pounding into voting offices and causing a the 2000 redux nightmare.

[ginnyinWI]

28. well whatever you think he should have done by now,

the fact is that he still has kept his credibility with the public--something vital to accomplishing the huge reversal that this would be--to actually upset a presidential election after everyone has considered it to be settled for a month.
By credibility I mean that he has not been seen to be scratching, clawing or whining to get the presidency. He is still presidential material--as long as the vote can be shown to belong to him.

[Used and Abused]

29. True. Very True. I'll reserve judgment

If Kerry could somehow turn the nightmare of the past few weeks around and get inaugurated in January, all would be forgiven. I would be so happy. I'll try my best to be patient.

[ginnyinWI]

31. yes, we all have to try to be patient

:-)

[sendero]

36. That...

.... is not going to happen.

As a practical matter, it wouldn't matter now if a million votes were found in a box somewhere, Bush** will get inaugurated. That you can count on.

The time when something could be done has long past. I still don't definitively know whether the election was stolen or not, but I'm certain that at this point there is no way to reverse it.

[lojasmo]

35. We do remember 2000 right?

The SCOTUS stopped the recount because TOO MUCH TIME HAD GONE BY.

Kerry waited nearly a FULL MONTH to do anything about BBV/disenfranchisement. This is just another indication that he doesn't want to win....my belief since before the primaires.

If we snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, we'll owe it all to Cobb, Badnarik, and Nader for their early and voiciferous efforts.

Oh, and Bev Harris! You go, girl!

[Nicholas_J]

39. Do we remember 2000 right?

The attacks on Gore for questioning the result of the vote sll but killed his ability to run again in 2004. The charges of a sours grapes challenge were too numerous to recount here.

To insist that Kerry do the same witohut an overwhelming outcry from the voters first is placing too much responsibil;ity on the candidate. There has been very little active and vocal protest of the election results, and as usual Americans expect someone else to do it for them, spineless lazy wonders that they are. The people who are criticising Kerry for waiting until there appears to be a mandate for such action are far more responsible for Kerry waitinguntil there seemed to be enough momentum nad evidence to do something. Were you protesting on the streets of your state capital to protest the election results. Was anyone?

Sorry, it is only up to the candoidate to act when he has is given a clear and vocal charge to do so from his constituents. That has been sadly lacking everywhere but the electronic playground.

If YOUR vote has been robbed, then it is up to you to yell "stop thief", not the candidate that you voted for.

[lojasmo]

51. My vote wasn't robbed.

Neither was Nader, Cobb, Badnarik, or Harris'

They certainly are making a fuss, more power to 'em.

Kerry should have addressed this PRIOR to the 2004 elections. There was certainly overwhelming cry and hew about the 2000 elections. I didn't hear a peep from him or the rest of the democratic establishment over the last four years.

Edited to say: YOU make at least an attempt to prove your assertion that gore's protestations are what scuttled his chances for a 2004 run, and I'll PROVE YOU WRONG by showing you how Terry Mcauliffe strongarmed gore 2004 backers to withold funding for Gore.

Mcauliffe is ripe for leaving the DNC chair.

Kerry was destined to lose this year, and his early concession and failure to say boo about voting irregularities until now bolster my position on that.

[madison2000]

38. It only FEELS like he's been on vacation for a month, right?

[zulchzulu]

42. There were reports of a Kerry team in Ohio two weeks ago

It's been happening.

[blm]

44. Sounds like exactly the way Rush will spin it. I think you assume you know

what you apparently do not.

[WilliamPitt]

45. pzzzzzzzzzzzzcheeeeeeeeeeezzzzz

[MikeG]

47. Isn't there a us on the end of that?

[w4rma]

48. flip flop? What a buch of BS. (nt)

[elehhhhna]

49. a flip must preceed a flop . trolling in aisle 6!