I'm sorry, but it's time for 'Take No Prisoners Howard' Dean as DNC chair

[Padraig18]

We've done it the nice way. We've done it the gentlemanly way. Now, it's time to do it the "Yo! Listen up, America, and let me tell you how the Republicans are fucking you!" way.

Discuss.

;)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I agree

I got the MoveOn email and put in my 2 cents. Dean has a plan, Dean has a way with words, and Dean is unafraid. He's what we need right now.

[Padraig18]

3. Exactly!

"Be not afraid" was his message after 2002, and it's still his message. It's time our party cleaned the sh*t out of its collective ears, and listened up.

[JohnKleeb]

2. I dont have a pick for DNC chair but I am sure he'd do fine

I just dont like the Dean or nobody train of though I see. I don't have a dog in this race nor do I want one. I am sure he'd be fine.

[ShaneGR]

4. As far as I know, Dean isn't even running for DNC Chair

And I've yet to read anything otherwise.

[Padraig18]

6. You haven't?

Are you warm enough in that cave?

;)

[ShaneGR]

8. He's hinted at interest, but I've yet to see anything

That shows a concrete run for it. If you have, provide a link.

[Padraig18]

9. LOL!

It's like the Vice-Presidency--- you seek it without being obvious about it. Sorry for no link, but everyone in America appears to know, so I really don't see much need.

:hi:

[janx]

50. Paddy, Shane is technically correct.

He hasn't said that he wants it yet.

[demwing]

78. But So Is Padraig

As with the VP pick, one runs without running. A quick search of Google News (Search - <Dean, DNC, chair> ) makes it clear that the scuttle is over Dean and the DNC chair. Leave Dean out of the search, and he pops back in on his own.

Dean is running, even if he isn't running. :)

[janx]

80. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

It should be interesting.

[Eurobabe]

5. DNC is on life support

who better to resuscitate than the good doctor?

[JVS]

7. Nothing to be sorry about

[JaneDoughnut]

10. Complete Agreement

Go to MoveOn to share your thoughts NOW, whether you agree or disagree about the best man for the job. They'll share our comments with the party leaders this weekend.

http://www.moveonpac.org/dncchair/?id=5015-4759677-ODcMV92fWH4uEtFh3HLINw

[Padraig18]

11. Already done.

But thanks for posting the link.

:)

[Bouncy Ball]

74. Did it just now.

thanks for the link

[Dying Eagle]

12. 2 Big Questons

Will he do it? and Will they let him? I think everyone in the progreesive community would love to have Howard Dean for DNC chair. I just think he does not want it. so he can go for the Presidency in 08. Plus I think The Moderate Dems will try to keep him out.

[Radical Activist]

15. Why would the progressive community

want a moderate for DNC chair? Why should a moderate like Dean be called a leader of the progressive movement? I'd be happy with a real progressive, not a Doctor who plays a progressive on TV.

[Padraig18]

17. Because we're not sheep.

I'm not into the whole 'marching in lockstep' thing, personally.

[Leilani]

21. Because Dean wants to give power back to the people

And what is more progressive than that?

[Cheswick2.0]

30. like who?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Larkspur]

70. Here's a clue as to why many, including progressives, support Howard Dean

Paul Loeb in his Jan. 15, 2004 article “Dean and Kucinich” http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=16280 sums up the feelings of Dean supporters the best.

Combined with a clearly expressed belief in the power of ordinary citizens to make history, Dean’s momentum has been a direct product of his feistiness. Rather than concentrating on focus-group-honed minutiae that the Republicans can easily switch to their advantage…, he’s taken on the core questions of who pays our taxes, how we treat our environment, whether we have health care, and how we relate to the rest of the world. He’s challenged Bush on basic premises, not just minute particulars. He’s offered a clear choice instead of the usual blurred one. And with the help of an Internet-savvy campaign staff, he … has made people feel valued enough to participate .

Howard Dean not only was willing to take the flak for proudly promoting those core progressive and Democratic principals, he also was willingly to throw punches where they needed to land, on those who abuse or fail to use their entrusted power, like Neo-con Republicans, “Bush-lite” Democrats, extremist Left wingers, and the Media. Dean is a practical progressive and is agressive to defend core progressive ideals when it is needed.

[BlueManDude]

13. I didn't support Dean in '04 - but I do now. n/t

[Radical Activist]

14. Except he's take no prisoners against other Democrats too

is that really healthy for the party?

[Padraig18]

16. Explain, please?

:shrug:

[Radical Activist]

18. You haven't heard Dean bash other Dems?

the DLC, even though he's not much different from them, and everyone who voted for the war. I don't mind someone criticizing people in the party sometimes, but too much of Dean's movement is based on that kind of criticism. He spends more time saying what we shouldn't be instead of providing a contrasting vision of what we should be. Where would Howard Dean be if he didn't have the DLC to push around?

[Padraig18]

19. EVERY Dem has bashed other Dems.

That's the silliest damned reason I've ever heard for opposing someone.

:wtf:

[Radical Activist]

20. Not every Dem based their entire campaign

on bashing other members of the party. I think Dean masks the fact that he's a moderate by attacking other moderates in the party. That's a very clever way to get support from disaffected liberal Democrats.

[Padraig18]

22. Dean didn't base his entire campaign on it, either.

We obviously watched different primaries.

:eyes:

[Radical Activist]

27. I watched a primary where

a moderate Democrat got a lot of support from progressive Democrats. If I want a progressive to reform the Democratic party I'll look for a real progressive, not a moderate. Just because Dean bashes the DLC doesn't mean he is that much different from them.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. a real progresive like who?

[Radical Activist]

36. Are you looking for someone to attack

so that you don't have to defend Dean? That would be keeping in tradition of Dean's campaign.

My pic would be Jesse Jackson, but there are plenty of others who would do a good job.

[arcos]

63. funny, Jesse Jackson supports Dean!! n/t

[ohioan]

77. He does?

When did he say this?

[arcos]

79. links...

"U.S. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. is trying to convince former presidential candidate Howard Dean to take the helm of a Democratic Party in desperate need of revitalization."
http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2004/11/10/news/illiana/12d7c85b2a9d08a286256f48000aa3e4.txt

"Dean's got some backing too. Both Jesse Jackson Sr. and Jr. are backing Dean, as is Gov Bill Richardson of NM, Donna Brazille as well. "
http://www.mydd.com/story/2004/11/15/212159/61

[ohioan]

81. These cites don't tell me anything . . .

The first story says that Jesse Jackson, Jr. supports Dean. The second is a blog that makes a blanket assertion that Jesse Jackson, Sr. and Jr. support him, but offers no substantiation.

As far as I can tell, Jesse Jackson has not endorsed anyone for DNC Chair, claims floating around the internet notwithstanding.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. I thought all the disafected supported DK

[janx]

41. I haven't heard Dean bash the DLC ...but maybe I just wasn't

aware of it.

I do know that the two top DLC "leaders" went out of their way to bash him.

[mandyky]

48. Exactly!

and he responded back! OMG that's not allowed? Gimmee a break! If Dean bashed other Dems what was it they did to him? He criticized people and pointed out differences at times, but that ain't bashing.

I still remember his What I Wanna Know speech at the DNC winter meeting in 03. Yes he was criticizing the spineless Dems who were rolling over for the idiot cowboy. He did not mention names, he mentioned bills, like tax cuts, no child left behind, the IWR, and he had plenty to say about the current administration, like the use of the word quota.

[Andromeda]

76. I've heard more Dems trash Howard Dean...

than the other way around.

You really need to get out more.

[Leilani]

23. Change is needed

This past campaign was a stinker.

I've signed the Dean for DNC chair Petition, to give him the power.

[janx]

49. He doesn't want the power.

He wants US to have the power.

[Leilani]

56. Agreed, see my post #21

What I meant was I signed the Dean petition to give him power against establishment people running for DNC chair.

If we back him, we give him OUR power against competing forces.

[janx]

59. Yeah.

And he'd just throw it back at us. :toast:

[wurzel]

24. Does the Democratic Party really exist?

With the silence since the last "election". The immediate "concession". The lack of effort in Florida and Ohio. The "can't we all get along?" attitude. I wonder sometimes if the Democratic Party is not a figment of our collective imagination. Can you imagine the Republican Party acting like the Democratic Party under these conditions?

[Padraig18]

25. That's why it's time for a change.

:thumbsup:

[wurzel]

26. Dean could bring some credibility back to the Democratic Party.

But I don't see why he should do it for our current so called "leadership". I'd rather he took the leadership himself. Go for the nomination.

[GreenInNC]

34. I have a secret....

I see Democrats

[Pepperbelly]

28. The problem is management, not message. The functionaries are worthless.

Nobody wants to address the real reason for the losses: the organization is pitifully prepared to refute the other side's crap. When our people go on the shows, they are absurdly unprepared for what they will get. They are rarely in command of the specific facts, they try to stick to lame assed talking points that do not get to the point in a way that actually clashes with what the gop says and even the pols themselves have tin ears about what people want to hear.

Just once in the debates ... just once, when Georgie brought up that LAME fucking $87 billion, why didn't Kerry ONCE point out to Georgie's face that Georgie had delivered a veto message if he didn't get every bit of it his way. "Who is the flip flopper, George? Both of us maybe but only one of us depends on people not knowing the full record. You should be ashamed for clouding the record with deception, half-truth, and zero responsibility."

Easy as shit and Georgie's $87 billion is gone.

Virtually every single issue had a way that it could have been handled in such a way as to make it radioactive for Bush to continue yet, they did not manage it with a single one of them.

They are drawing their professional paychecks and they are so homogenized that their advice is worthless and when they cash their paychecks, they should do so looking at least vaguely ashamed, like the hound dog caught trying to swipe fried chicken off the table.

[XemaSab]

46. AMEN!

There were SO many points during the debate where I was like, "Okay, Kerry's gonna rip him a new one..." and then it didn't happen.

Especially the environment question. Kerry sorta challenged him, but using his time to talk about how the Kyoto treaty was flawed? He gives an answer that manages to be both vague and nerdy at the same time. He clearly had the facts, but where was the smackdown?





HUBB: Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply?



BUSH: Off-road diesel engines -- we have reached an agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90 percent.

I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by 3 million. We've got an aggressive brown field program to refurbish inner-city sore spots to useful pieces of property.

I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent.

I have -- was fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the conservation reserve program to set aside millions of acres of land to help improve wildlife and the habitat.

We proposed and passed a healthy forest bill which was essential to working with -- particularly in Western states -- to make sure that our forests were protected. What happens in those forests, because of lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like tinderboxes.

And over the last summers I've flown over there. And so, this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and at the same time make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest fires that have destroyed acres after acres in the West.

We've got a good, common-sense policy.

Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen over time is technology is going to change the way we live for the good for the environment.

That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending $1 billion to come up with the technologies to do that.

That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make sure we can use coal but in a clean way.

I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land.

The quality of the air's cleaner since I've been the president. Fewer water complaints since I've been the president. More land being restored since I've been the president.

Thank you for your question.



GIBSON: Senator Kerry, minute and a half.



KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment.

Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not.

Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels around. Labels don't mean anything.

I supported welfare reform. I led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was heresy.

Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen.

Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of the worst administrations in modern history. The Clear Skies bill that he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of the sky, slap it onto something, like "No Child Left Behind" but you leave millions of children behind. Here they're leaving the skies and the environment behind.

If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today, no change, the air would be cleaner that it is if you pass the Clear Skies act. We're going backwards.

In fact, his environmental enforcement chief air-quality person at the EPA resigned in protest over what they're doing to what are calling the new source performance standards for air quality.

They're going backwards on the definition for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality.

They pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead, didn't even accept the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science.



GIBSON: Mr. President?



BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyoto treaty, which I guess he's referring to, it would have cost America a lot of jobs.

It's one of these deals where, in order to be popular in the halls of Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I think there's a better way to do it.

And I just told you the facts, sir. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been the president of the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and development, because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're accustomed to and being able to protect our environment better, the use of technologies.



GIBSON: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds.



KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto, and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this president didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen, and we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years.

You wonder, Nikki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the world. You just say: Hey, we don't agree with you. Goodbye.

The president's done nothing to try to fix it. I will.

[Hippo_Tron]

51. The DLC message kinda sucks, but you're right that it is more management

Our message does need to be more populist economically, because people do go for that. But most of all we do need better management, and we need to attack more. Clinton's strategists should've started running Kerry's campaign in March, not in September.

[MsConduct]

29. Don't be sorry! It's what the former 'land of the free' needs. n/t

[GreenInNC]

33. It will never happen

Dr. Dean has too many progressive idea's for the majority of the party.

[Zorra]

35. Yep. He'd attack electronic voting until he killed it. A DNC letter

explaining the electronic voting problem to every registered Democrat.:headbang:

The all important first step to regaining democracy.

[elshiva]

83. Great Picture

Dennis Kucinich proving that congress is not opposite of progress.
We Democratics should try to me liberal, democratic, and progressive, bipartisan but not Republican lite. And down with electronic voting and up with democracy for America!

[merh]

38. My post from another thread that seems appropriate here.

My doubts about Dean came about yesterday. I was looking forward to him being our DNC head. But, after yesterday, I have to ask "How can he represent the hopes for our party when he disregards the efforts (grass root, heart felt efforts) of so many thousands that went to the Conyers hearings? How about the thousands of people that signed affidavits attesting to how they were prevented from voting?"

If he wants to be the future, he better grab on to the present! The issues are now and he disrespected the efforts of thousands just because he wanted to share his "vision of the future of the party". Without dealing with the present, there is no future.

If any of you work for the man please suggest he get a PR agent or maybe someone who is capable of making the best of a situation. He wasted a moment and a movement. He could have easily embraced the Conyers hearing, airing the CSPAN coverage live at the location of his speech, then after wards, he could have opened the floor for discussion and questions and then he could have lead the party in the direction of the future and told of his vision. He did not. I am not the only one that was upset and disappointed by this, many who attended the Conyers hearing and that are struggling to save democracy were disappointed by his timing. It is not a question of media coverage, it is a question of respect of an effort and movement.

HD is not a god, nor is he a leader if he so easily can overlook the thousands that were trying to be heard yesterday. He should have helped them be heard, he should have created a forum where they could be heard by his audience, he should have applauded their efforts, supported their struggles, and then, and only then, shared his "vision for the future" of the party. As it stands, my disappointment in him for his disrespect and failure to seize the movement and help it be heard have dampened my hopes for him as the leader of the DNC.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

[realFedUp]

39. You're upset that the hearings and his speech happened on the same day?

Maybe you'd better be more upset that Rummy's
remarks and the basketbawl brawl took up too
much airtime also.

It's the message stupid.

[merh]

40. No name calling

You are right, it is the message and he felt his message was more important than the hearings. It wasn't just me that felt the insult.

[realFedUp]

43. It's Carville's line

It's the economy stupid.
It's the message stupid.

Not a personal call of you.

[merh]

44. See how messages can be misinterpreted if not timed right?

:headbang:

[janx]

47. I dunno...Maybe it was appropriate that these two things

happened on the same day. They certainly share an urgency and similarity of message, no?

[merh]

55. No, they don't share the same urgency or similarity of message

One was an event with thousands of voices begging to be heard about the future of our democracy and our nation, the other was one man opining what is his vision for the party.

Democracy and the Nation's future versus the party.

Hmmmm, his message could have waited one day or he could have seized the moment and given an additional forum to the voices of thousands and then joined them, uniting the effort. No, his message was disrespectful to Conyers and the hundreds, if not thousands that were in attendance at the hearing. Sad, he missed out on a golden opportunity to be a leader and a uniter, to share in and support the concerns of thousands relative to election fraud and to make that cause his own and part of his vision for the future of the party. Actually, it was pretty stupid he didn't provide the forum and then speak to the issues before he gave a speech about the vision of the party. imho

[RetroLounge]

42. I agree and now I'll sit back and watch the usual suspects

show up and bash Dean.

He really scares them, those without spines.

RL

[sampsonblk]

45. AMEN + Message from MoveOn.Org

Subject: Who will lead the Democratic Party?
Dear Friend:

This weekend, state Democratic Party leaders will gather to discuss who should be the next chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC). Right now, the Party is being lead by elite Washington insiders who are closer to corporate lobbyists than they are to the Democratic base. We simply can't afford four more years of leadership by a consulting class of professional losers.

This year we have a great opportunity: the election for DNC Chair is wide open. We can choose a leader who will reject corporate cash and help build a Party of the people that's funded by the people and that fights for the people. MoveOn has made it easy to contact our state Party leaders and ask them support a chair who will represent all of us outside of the Washington beltway and engage us in a fight for a bold Democratic vision. Please join me -- click here:

http://www.moveonpac.org/dncchair/

They're going to deliver our signatures to the state Party leaders' meeting this weekend, so please sign TODAY, and then pass this on to anyone you know who'd like to see new leadership in the Democratic Party.

Thanks!

[Hippo_Tron]

52. DNC Chair doesn't get to do jack shit

I understand where everybody is going with this and I fully agree with the idea behind putting Dean as DNC Chair. The idea is that with Dean at the helm, we get to basically tell the DLC to sit down and shut up and finally start preaching a clear progressive message. There's one problem. The DNC Chair doesn't have any control over what the party's message is. His job is to raise money, he's responsible to the elected officials, he doesn't get to do anything.

[janx]

54. If Dean were to accept that position, it would change.

The word at my Dec. Meetup was that the DNCers who back Dean want to change the nature of the position.

I'm skeptical.

[Pithy Cherub]

53. Bring on the Dean!

Patti LaBelle singin' A Change is Gone Come... :smoke:

[Leilani]

57. One of my favorite songs!

Sam Cooke version...

& Tina Turner version with Robert Cray, the best, best version.

[Sparky 1]

58. This is exactly what I was thinking...

Dean was the favorite, no question about it. Then all of a sudden the Republican-owned media came out and destroyed him within just a few days...and announced at the same time that Kerry was the forerunner.

I didn't buy it. I hadn't seen anyone anywhere talking about Kerry. The talk I'd been seeing around the 'net was about Dean, Clark, and Kucinich. I felt that we were all railroaded into accepting Kerry from that point on.

Locally, people who were becoming Kerry delegates had no sound reasoning behind their decisions to do so. Their reasons were simply "Kerry is the one who can win." They sounded programmed.

Dean has the spirit that most progressives loved, and has all along. Most of us wanted to bring the troops home, for instance. I don't think many Democrats or Independents who didn't want Bush were happy to hear Kerry say he stood firmly behind Isreal and that he intended to finish off the war in Iraq. I know I wasn't happy with that.

So yes, by all means, GO DEAN!!

Kucinich is another interesting person, in my book. Everyone said he couldn't win because he wasn't "presidential" and there may be truth to that, but I always loved the way Kucinich thinks. I'd like to see him remain fairly prominent, too.

Hey, experienced DUers -- how many posts do I have to reply to before I can post one of my own. I just discovered a great find I'd love to share about how Democrats can regain lost ground in future elections, but I'm not allowed to post yet. Should I just give up on sharing it? Or would one of you be so kind as to post it for me?
It's at: http://www.alternet.org/election04/20702/

Thanks!

[Sparky 1]

72. Did I say something wrong?

[LittleClarkie]

60. Help me, I have a Dean caught in my throat

CPR! Mouth to mouth! Help!

Kakkk.

(Is this how Dean folk felt when Kerry was "shoved down their throats" after Iowa? Dean's Revenge? Hee.)

[Lugnut]

61. No argument here

Does he want the job? If he does, I'm in favor.

[Padraig18]

62. kick n/t

[JNelson6563]

64. All I can say Paddy is

Amen my brother!!

:toast:

Julie

[Cuban_Liberal]

65. Let me concur!

I'm ready for a plain-speaking, straight-shooting, kick-ass-and-take-names person to head the DNC, and Dr. Dean is that person, IMO.

:thumbsup:

[wantedtohelp]

66. DK would be a better chair...

The general populace doesn't pay attention to the DLC. So it's not as if DK being "too liberal" comes in to play.

The party needs to stop moving rightward. Dean would only slow it down, not reverse course.

[JNelson6563]

68. Here's a clue

When some people say we should change direction, in essence they are arguing that our basic or guiding principles can be altered or modified.

They can't.

On issue after issue, we are where the majority of the American people are.

What I want to know is at what point did it become a radical notion to stand up for what we believe?

Over fifty years ago, Harry Truman said, "We are not going to get anywhere by trimming or appeasing. And we don't need to try it."

Yet here we are still making the same mistakes.

Let me tell you something: there's only one thing Republican power brokers want more than for us to lurch to the left -- and that's for us to lurch to the right.

What they fear most is that we may really begin fighting for what we believe -- the fiscally responsible, socially progressive values for which Democrats have always stood and fought.

Link to Clue Store:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/features/2004/12/08/governor_deans_gwu_speech_transcript.php

Julie

[Cuban_Liberal]

69. *grin*

Thanks for the link, Julie.

;)

[ewagner]

67. Sorry for being a late-joiner to this thread

But I feel like I've got to jump in and endorse Dean for DNC Chair.

I didn't support Dean for the nomination but I do support him for this position for a number of reasons:

He jumped in and energized the party at a time when it was a ho-hum campaign.

He called out Dems for supporting the RW agenda AGAINST our cherished principles.

He raised TONS of money in a short period of time over the net which nobody had ever thought of doing.

He started the most loyal and energetic grass roots movement I have seen in politics in my lifetime. (better than Perot in my opinion)

He got an advanced degree in message control from the College of Hard Knocks.

Even if Kerry had won hands down I would have supported Dean for DNC chair.

True, Dean has not overtly said he wants the job, but he has a lot of support out there and I think he would respond to that support.

[Padraig18]

71. Excellent post!

Great points, each and every one!

:thumbsup:

[Bouncy Ball]

73. Nothing to discuss.

I agree totally. I was kinda hoping this last election cycle would be the "Yo! Listen up, America and let me tell you how the republicans are fucking you!" way.

But I can wait for another election cycle. Whoever is running things, though, better have GREAT BIG pairs of balls and ovaries. And use them. Constantly.

[Andromeda]

75. Perfect! Works for me...

Republicans don't understand nice. They view 'nice' as a sign of weakness and the Dems have let themselves be steamrolled over because they've tried too long to be reasonable and fair.

Howard Dean is strong and isn't afraid to tell it like it is. He's capable of diplomacy when it's needed but he's a straight shooter and we need that more than anything.

Personally, I would feel safer and more secure with Dean at the helm of the DNC. There are those in the party who don't want Dean because they want to keep the status quo.

Dean would be good at raising money, which is an important function of the DNC, without selling our collective souls. He knows the system and has learned through his mistakes.

He is dogged, determined and sexy (whoops, sorry about that -- I couldn't help myself).:evilgrin:

[elshiva]

82. Let Me Second SEXY

Everyone Knows Dean's a born leader, it's his charism from God.
But he is also very spongeworthy.
This explains the infamous scream the room was filled with a lot of het girls and gay guys yelling at the Spongeworthiness, so Dean had to scream.
If I, a Deanaic and DFAer, ever saw the honorable chair I jump up and scream, "I love you, you beautiful, liberal mensch you" And hug him.
Go, go, go, Dean.http://www.crushiesfordean.com/main_gallery/pages/0011.htm:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[Placebo]

84. Umm, that's fab and all, but...NO.