New Rule: Define what you mean by "centrist" or "leftist"

[imenja]

Let's make a new rule that when people note that someone or something is "leftist" or "centrist," we define specifically what we mean by that. Which policies or ideas do you oppose as overly "centrist"? How is a given politician to "leftist" or "liberal"? Let's not fall into the trap of corporate media and assume these are self-evident categories. American politics have changed a great deal since the Cold War. The Republican party has abandoned traditional conservative economic policies in favor of a cultural platform. In turn, some Democrats--like Dean--are strongly in favor of fiscal discipline.

Let's be more clear about precisely what it is we oppose or support.

[CatholicEdHead]

1. Well

my old username had it in.

I am fiscally moderate to conservative (mostly in the responsible realm).

I am socially quite libertarian. If it does not effect me, let it go.

[Radical Activist]

2. Impossible

There are too many different opinions on what left and center mean. A serious definition will take up twice as much space as most of the posts that use the term. We could spend all our time discussing the issue and nothing else.

[imenja]

4. what YOU mean when you refer to a given policy, not what ALL people mean

I believe to simply use labels says nothing. What I'm asking is that people take time to outline their views on a given subject or politician rather than just saying "he's too centrist" etc. I'm not asking you to define what all people mean by it. Obviously people vary a great deal in their use of these terms--that's why it's important to be specific about where you stand.

[imenja]

6. my point is the label says nothing

I'd rather know your view on a given subject. I mean this generally rather than directed at you in particular: it's easy to denounce something as right wing, fascist, centrist, or liberal rather than saying specifically what your objections are to a given policy or politician. What I'm asking for is a greater level of intellectual and rhetorical precision.
I believe left-right labels are a legacy of the Cold War and don't accurately describe American politics today. And in the media, the Democrats always lose when it comes to these labels. Better to say what we mean.

[starroute]

3. I'll make a stab at it

A leftist is someone who believes that the present system of corporate domination is unacceptable and has to be replaced by something more responsive to human needs and values.

A centrist is someone who believes that the existing New Deal compromise is sufficient and should continue to be maintained.

Anybody else is a rightist.

[imenja]

5. next time you call someone rightist

be specific about the policy or position you reject. My point is that we need to say what we mean when we are discussing an issue or a person rather than simply throw labels around. Such terms only reveal you don't agree with a person, but they don't say how.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. My definition is that folks in the mid-deep lower left quadrant of the

political compass are leftist. (I envision a small circle around the intersection of the axes for moderates of each quadrant.)

http://politicalcompass.org/

[Cheswick2.0]

8. fiscal discipline is a liberal idea these days

it is the massive debt and the resulting intereste payments that is killing social spending.

[Selatius]

9. It's really hard to define centrist

Centrist in the US could be considered solidly rightwing in Europe.

I approach it as a sliding scale. One one end, we have true collectivists. On the other end, we have neoliberals who believe that the markets are the answer to all problems (freemarketeers). In my mind, those are the goal posts that many can agree on. If that is the case, then a centrist is someone that is directly in the middle between those two opposite poles.

George Bush is closer to neoliberalism than John Kerry, but in comparison, they are both further toward neoliberalism than, say, Walt Brown of the Socialist Party USA or Dennis Kucinich or David Cobb of the Green Party. These three lean closer towards collectivism than not. The first too advocate free trade and deregulation of the markets to some degree, while the last three advocate fair trade to some degree, trade with some amount of environmental and labor standards taken into account.

We could also get into methodology through which neoliberalism or collectivism is brought about. In short, on one extreme we have totalitarian measures, and at the other extreme, we have pure democratic measures where each individual has a choice to participate or leave at will. It can mean the difference between totalitarian state socialism, democratic state socialism, and anarcho-socialism.

[robbedvoter]

10. Nowadays: Buchanan=centrist. Arlen Specter= leftist

We - off the charts. (PS: who decides what the center is?)
I believe in civil rights for everyone, individual freedoms, corporate accountability. That makes me...an extremist?

[imenja]

11. it's all context and issue specific

On foreign policy, Buchanan seems to the left (less interventionist) of Democrats, but I would consider him on the far right of immigration issues because of his profound xenophobia. My point is we need to make clear our positions in the context of a particular charge we make rather than relying on simple catch phrases like so and so is too "conservative" or "centrist."
Thanks for your thoughts.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. how about pragmatic liberal (nt)

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Labels are increasingly meaningless

Not only because their very definitions are changing, but also because the realms of the various flavors of a label have changed.

Given, for example, the profligate, unfettered deficit spending in which the Republicans are now actively engaged, most Democrats are, by comparison, fiscally conservative.

I'd rather see an idea or a person judged on the merits of the facts or the impressions or the persona or the background than by labels.

Political labels were once a convenient shorthand. Now, in some circles, a traditionally accepted label could one judged as being out of step.

Naaaah, I'll try to avoid labels altogether, even when discussing things on DU.

[imenja]

14. Yes, that is precisely my point

I agree entirely. I'd like to see DU members be more precise in their critiques: use substantive discussion rather than simply relying on labels, or if one must use them, say precisely what you mean.