CSpan - Future of the Dem Party - Discussion Thread 1

[mandyky]

This is a 2 hour debate. Oughta be good.

[Pirate Smile]

1. I'm so happy to have something interesting to listen to - easily pleased

these days.

[mandyky]

2. I'm DVRing it so we can

discuss things brought up over the next few days.

[madfloridian]

3. Borrosage is a great speaker. Pic.

Sheila Jackson Lee, Robert Borosage, Howard Dean at Take Back America conference.

[mandyky]

6. Yes, he is

Who is he? I never heard of him before today...

[janx]

7. It's hard to believe that Borosage and From are even in the same

party.

Isn't it weird?

[janx]

4. From looks and sounds nervous...

[madfloridian]

9. Yes, and he just implied that we don't appeal to anyone over $40,000.

Don't you love the way his mind works?

[janx]

11. His ride is over.

And rats, I have to leave soon to go collect some essays for grading...

[Connie_Corleone]

13. He says that in his article I just read too.

Basically he says that the Democratic Party needs to appeal to white men and women who make over $40,000/year. And the Party needs to be tough in the war on terror.

Sounds like the republican party to me.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. the majority of the people in the country make less than 40k

that is just one illustration of why From is an idiot.

[janx]

27. It's completely out of touch.

[Cheswick2.0]

14. he's about to lose his influence in the party and he knows it

[gulfcoastliberal]

67. Good god, I hope so!

The DLC has been at the reigns since they drove us in the ditch. Clinton won on charisma and being a brilliant speaker, not because of his DLC ideals. Those have been demonstrable big time losers.

[NYCGirl]

5. I have the day off from work today, and I'm watching this...

and just set the TiVo to record it.

Edited to add: Al From talks about reality. Irony is not dead.

[Pirate Smile]

8. How much are we going to hate From by the end of this? grrrr.

He gives great pep talks. Everyone assume the fetal position right now.

[janx]

10. Well, there's From's reality, and then there's...

reality.

[madfloridian]

12. From is sounding shaky. Maybe Kos and other bloggers made impression.

Yes, he is almost shaky.

[dray178355]

16. Yes, very shakey

KICK. I hope there is audience participation. I see some young people in the audience and I hope they nail his butt to the wall. This party needs an entirely new saddle.

[janx]

17. HA! Who is this cute guy Rothenberg?

He's trying to smooth From's feathers. From was so visibly nervous that R. is trying to make him feel better! "It'll be OK..."

[itzamirakul]

61. Do you mean "Rosenberg? If so,

he was a DLCer and had an argument with From and quit the DLC and formed his own Republican-lite group known as the NDN.

[janx]

74. No--there was a guy named Stuart Rothenberg on the panel.

[merbex]

36. Stuttering a lot n/t

[Pirate Smile]

15. Did everybody read the WP article about Chimpy doing for Domestic

policy what he did for Foreign policy?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1059747

If we do Repug lite, they will roll us like we have never been rolled before. Right now, we can hardly do anything to stop them unless we create a huge grassroots backlash and/or the Senators can hold together to filibuster.

[mandyky]

18. Why is Stu Rotherberg there?

Isn't he a GOP pollster? He is dissing the recounts!

[Yuugal]

19. are my ears lying?

Or did Rothenburg just refer to all of us asking for recounts as "people who crawl out from under rocks"?

[Pirate Smile]

30. Your ears don't lie.

[goclark]

33. He sure did!

Am I listening to a Republican inspired public forum?

I get the feeling that this group has rolled over completely!

Why are they talking this way?
Why are they saying that we ran a bad campaign and we did this and that wrong.

I don't like this mess at all,
It should be held after Jan 20th.

Help me if I'm wrong!!

IMO, we still won and if we didn't , why are we bashing ourselves in front of the media?

[janx]

21. I don't know, but he's cracking me up.

[Freddie Stubbs]

50. No, Rotherberg is not a GOP pollster

He is a political analyst. He publishes The Rothenberg Political Report.

http://www.rothenbergpoliticalreport.com/

[Cheswick2.0]

22. Rothenberg is sounding like the typical idiot who thinks he's smart

but has no clue.

[janx]

24. He has referenced the ideological differences between From

and Borosage at least twice.

Edit: Now I understand what he's doing there.

[Earth_First]

23. I'm bothered by the statements that * 'won' the election...

nt

[mandyky]

25. SR - Bush is good on fiscal responsiblity?!!

Has he been under a rock? Has he looked at the deficit and spending? Jiminy Christmas!

[Cheswick2.0]

29. I think the guy is a schmo

he is one of those guys who think sticking to the middle ground and never being controversial, also means you are wise and "grown up". I can unequivocably say that people like him are on sucking up money from the political process for yacking about nothing. He's an unfunny Seinfeld episode.

[rasputin1952]

26. Two things here...one is about Novak, the other about debate now on...

#1 Novak is still a jerk. But it did my heart good to see him called to task a few times. He is a coward, and unless he is in complete control of the situation, he is a rambling idiot. I think people were not tough enough on him, I tried to get through, and would have simply called him a traitor and a liar, but alas, I was foiled by the busy signal. Would have done my heart good to see his head explode when someone actually just stands up and publicly holds him to account. he is the standard bully, start a fight then run. Despicable creature to say the least.

#2 About Dem debate on where we are going. I can't stay to watch the whole thing. But I believe, the core of the Dem party, and the progressive movement, should stand tall and stick to our principles.
No GOP lite. Expand our platform and what we believe in by educating the people of the United States that we are on their side. 80% of the populace agrees with our positions on equality and progression to a greater United States through economic and social change. We must honor our promises and ensure the population that our goals go far beyond guns, gays and abortion. Articulation of our core values is the essence of how we will win in the future.

The last thing we should be doing is bashing our fellow Dems/Libs/Progressives. We need to come together and advance our visions of freedom, equality and the movement forward of all of our citizens. We need to avoid spurious arguments that place us as single issue voters. We need to work together, so that this nation will move back into an enlightened age, and leave the dark age of the neo-cons in the dust where it belongs.

One last thing, bush and his minions will put the GOP back for 50 years. I have already had 22 people re-register as Independents, and two as Dems, from R's. I did not argue with these people, I just used facts I could back up immediately. I'm in Nebraska, if I can help to change the minds of 24 that I know of, and probably a few more that I do not know of specifically, I know the rest of the you can as well.
That would equate to millions that would not have voted for bush in '04. It takes time and patience, and now is the time to work on getting the House and Senate back in '06. If we can get Congress back, the possibility exists that bush would be impeached and tossed out of office. Sure I dream...but what a smile it brings to my face...
:)


We must work together for our core values, and we will win because, quite simply, the American people DO think, and I believe they are thinking a horrid mistake was made in '04. Let's capitalize on that...:)

[itzamirakul]

65. Please check out this article when you get a chance...

The Democrats' Da Vinci Code by David J. Sirota

www.alternet.or/story/20702/

Great concrete ideas and suggestions for taking the party back from the Republican-lite DLC.

[itzamirakul]

66. DAMMIT! I canceled my cable on principle

but I may have to get it reconnected to get C-Span!

Many thanks to all of you who are watching and keeping us informed.

Read this article by David J. Sirota
The Democrats' Da Vinci Code

www.alternet.org/story/20702/

Great concrete ideas and suggestions as to how we can take the party back from these pocket-lining GOP-lites.

[NYCGirl]

28. Well, the c-span feed just went dark on my cable system.

Everything else is alright. Damn! And I was just getting into it.

Goddamn Time Warner.

[sadiesworld]

31. Borosage is amazing!

[Connie_Corleone]

32. He laid it out, didn't he?

From and the DLC just don't get it.

[sadiesworld]

35. Oh, I think they "get it"...

they just don't like it. :puke:

[janx]

34. He's very positive.

[Me.]

37. I Like The Point He Just Made

about dems voting for the war because it was politically expedient, how it left them with no place to go because they then couldn't explain why they voted for a war they thought was wrong.

[sadiesworld]

38. Jesus, this idiot sounds like Condi testifying before the 9/11 commission.

What the hell is he talking about?!

Oh, I see now. Terra, terra, terra.

The requisite MM slam.

This guy has GOT to go. :grr:

[mandyky]

39. I knew he'd do it

From just dissed Michael Moore! Asshole!

[Pirate Smile]

42. Does he not differentiate between Iraq and Afghanistan?

Bob tried to point that out and his response was to be the party of Truman and Kennedy not Moore. Would Kennedy and Truman have been for attacking Iraq? :wtf:

Oh, they are starting to get snippy.

[NYCGirl]

40. The feed came back just as From dissed Michael Moore...

Why can't we be the party of Harry Truman, John Kennedy, AND Michael Moore? Aren't we the ones with the big tent?

[mandyky]

43. OH joy!

He is such a schmuck (From that is).

[mandyky]

41. David Sirota gets first question!

For AAR Franken listeners!

[sadiesworld]

44. Great.

Now From is berating the questioner.

[mandyky]

45. From has used about 5 of Dean's lines today!

I wonder if he realizes it...

[Cheswick2.0]

48. of course he realizes it

he's doing it on purpose.

[madfloridian]

49. It is deliberate....he is misleading.

:hi:

[sadiesworld]

46. Go Borosage!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mandyky]

47. Trade - Fair vs Free!!

say it

[mandyky]

51. Yikes - a direct question about Michael Moore

This could get down and dirty.

[merbex]

54. From is a jerk and Borosage is a thoughtful individual

From wants to make Michael Moore an issue

That in my book makes From a jerk

[sadiesworld]

52. Not liking the dig at the Greens.

And Borosage was doing so well. :(

[mandyky]

55. I don't think it was a dig at the Greens

Nader voters in 2004 were not greens, were they?

[sadiesworld]

58. Did I misunderstand?

Hope so.

[mandyky]

53. Borrosage - Caligula's ass

youch - about Nader supporters this ctcle ouch
he did say he hoped nader would come back to the dems

[sadiesworld]

56. Yeah, I may have started waving the pom poms too soon.

Although, he's been great on everything else. Stay tuned.

[realFedUp]

70. He said even Caligula's ass could get 400,000 votes

kind of an odd phrase but we get the gist.

[The Flaming Red Head]

57. I liked F911. I don’t want my kid to die for Halliburton.

They don't have a clue do they?

[gulfcoastliberal]

59. Al From is a steaming sack of swine feces...

Borosage is a sage, sage man.

Rothenberg vaguely just agrees with whatever From says.

From believes anyone who is Islamic wakes up every day dreaming of killing Americans. All of em, eh Al? I want to punch him in the face.

[Yuugal]

62. Al From is lower than whale poop

.....and thats at the bottom of the ocean. He laughed in that lady's face who asked a good question about why Kerry didn't do a better job explaining that the war on terror was making us less safe not more. He just said "I remember 9/11" and pushed his mic away.

[mandyky]

60. From endorses Hillary for Prez 08

Borosage gives a thoughtful answer

[realFedUp]

69. He gave no endorsements, just thought she'd be a good candidate

if she won her Senate seat again in 2006.
Borosage said she'd also be a good candidate
and also wondered if putting up another Northeast
liberal candidate would be an issue.

[janx]

73. Is it over?

I'm at work now, waiting for students to turn in their final papers.

?

[peacetalksforall]

63. Why do we have to have these forums now...all these speakers are

cementing the concept that Bush won 51%. Why do we do this to ourselves? I am frustrated. It's ammunition to shoot ourselves.

fyi - even Tavis Smiley on Wash Jour seemed ignorant of the vote thefts.

[sadiesworld]

64. Went to get a soda and came back to the chimp!

:wtf:

[realFedUp]

68. No mention of the wedge issues

Not one mention of the faith based taxpayer
monies going to conservative evangelist churches,
and the pastor's impact, mobilization of CC
voters and their fear of gay unions getting
the same rights as homosexual couples attain
from the government.

No mention of the vote rigging, padding and
fraud

If the Democratic party is going to be the
reality based party, it better get some representatives
who live in this world, not a fantasy world created
by conservative strategists.

Al From is not someone I would follow. And the
problems with the Kerry campaign was they didn't
reframe the discussion, but played defense to
conservative language framing.

I just added Campaign for America's Future to
my favs list....Borosage did make the better,
more clearer arguments this morning.

[realFedUp]

71. http://www.ourfuture.org/

is the website address for Campaign for America's Future.

I'm sure they've made some fans today.

[itzamirakul]

72. Thanks for the url...

:)