Dean running from the liberal label on MTP

[Radical Activist]

Poll question: Dean running from the liberal label on MTP

I'm surprised I haven't seen this aspect of Dean's Meet the Press interview on Sunday discussed. When Russert brought up the L word Dean went to great lengths to show how moderate he was as Governor. What do you think of that?

[eyesroll]

1. Dean never was a liberal on many issues.

The DNC race isn't about liberal vs. moderate -- it's about status quo vs. reform. (Kos has a post about this today, and I agree 100%.)

[On the Road]

2. One of the Things I Liked About Dean

was that from what I knew about him, he was always a sensible moderate. One who appealed to liberals and activists. From that point of view, Dean was in a good position to unify the party.

[imenja]

3. that's not how I interpreted his remarks

I think he was making the point that these labels don't say much. Dean is a fiscal "conservative," while Bush spends like a drunken sailor. Didn't he say " if it's liberal to balance the budget, etc... than I'm a liberal"?

[LoZoccolo]

4. I was a Dean supporter and pretty obviously moderate.

That's why I supported Dean initially, because he was a moderate. And he always touted that too - he would talk about how many times he cut taxes in Vermont and how he balanced the budget.

[Pirate Smile]

6. Me too. The press seemed to confuse being against Iraq with being to

the "left". Kerry and Bush (supposedly) are where Dean was in supporting Civil Unions.

The talking heads still are saying if the DNC chair goes to Dean it will be a big lurch to the left. This just shows how clueless they are about his record and stands on issues.

[imenja]

5. He also made it clear he would not seek the presidency if DNC chair

I know there has been some speculation about that. DNC was clear on the subject.

[madfloridian]

7. Give a quote, please, where he "ran" from it.

He said you could call him anything....he balanced budgets...etc.

Please give a source for saying he ran from it. It was not even implied. He has always said it about the same way. I balance budgets, I want health care...if that is liberal then I don't mind.

He has often said the word may be too damaged to rehabilitate, and now he seems to using the word reform. And I sure do like that word.

REFORM.......

[Radical Activist]

9. Here's the link

He certainly had a strong reaction to being called liberal.
http://movies.ziaspace.com/Dean.wmv

[madfloridian]

12. Here is the transcript link.

Please find the words and post them. Then I will believe you. I have the MTP taped, but the transcript is easier to see on a forum.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ID/6702005/

[Radical Activist]

14. You can't read it yourself?

If you want to discuss something fine, but I have a feeling you will just bicker and contradict every little thing I say.

Russert asked the question about Dean's liberal image in the primary three times before Dean addressed the issue directly. This is the most he had to say, and he still refused to define himself. If Dean doesn't know what his record makes him, how is anyone else supposed to know?


MR. RUSSERT: Some mainstream Democrats, Governor, have said when Howard Dean ran, he said he represented the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, and that the Democratic Leadership Council, which was headed by Bill Clinton, was the "Republican wing of the Democratic Party." Is a liberal from Vermont the answer to the Democratic Party's problems when there are so many red states throughout the country that seem to be resistant to liberals from the Northeast?

DR. DEAN: Well, first of all, I'm not running for president, I'm running for DNC chair. So it's the candidates that make the difference in terms of the political message, not the DNC chair. But secondly, here's my record in Vermont, balance the budget, everybody under 18 has health insurance, enormous investment in early childhood so that we've reduced our child abuse rate and eight consecutive endorsements from the National Rifle Association. Now, I don't know if that makes me a liberal or centrist or a right-wing conservative, but it's not exactly what you would call the classic profile of a Northeasterner. I come from a very rural state, and I get rural politics, and I get agricultural politics, and I think that's important.

[madfloridian]

16. See, you just proved yourself wrong on your statement above.

Dean: "Now, I don't know if that makes me a liberal or centrist or a right-wing conservative, but it's not exactly what you would call the classic profile of a Northeasterner. I come from a very rural state, and I get rural politics, and I get agricultural politics, and I think that's important."

He was not running from anything.

You need to be more accurate about your statements.

[Radical Activist]

19. Did he defend liberalism? No

Did he define himself? No. Once again he remained vague. It's like he's walking a tightrope to keep people on the left and the middle at the same time. Why doesn't he know what his record makes him? I know he's not stupid.

[madfloridian]

21. Why do you love labels so much?

If you are such a radical activist, why must things be labeled, put in a box and tied with a pretty ribbon?

If you had paid attention during the campaign, you would have seen that many of us who supported him could not be labeled, nor can he. Nor does he want to be..

Nor should he be labeled, nor should I be labeled.

[Radical Activist]

22. I like consistency

I like people who stand up for what they believe in. I don't like people who refuse to define themselves in an effort to be all things to all people.

The "sound more liberal in the primary and run to the middle for the general election" game is as old as the Democratic Primary process itself.

Now you can go ahead and tell me how Dean doesn't change any of his positions and how he never misleads people and so on.

[madfloridian]

25. You do this on Dean and Clark threads all the time.

It is so obvious. It is harmful to healthy discussion and peacemaking.

[Q]

33. Has Dean ever called himself a 'liberal'?

One can only 'run' from something which they once supported and then disavowed. I'm not so sure that Dean has ever campaigned as or called himself a liberal.

It sounds more like you're just trying to label him and then accuse him of running away from your label.

I like to think of Dean as more of a 'reformer' than left or moderate. But a reformer is exactly what the fence-sitters, moderates and enablers don't want mucking up their plans for a RWing Dem party.

[IndianaGreen]

8. Dean never said he was a liberal. Kucinich was the liberal!

Dean has always been a centrist, but a centrist that opposed the war in Iraq, opposed PATRIOT, and supported civil unions.

Kucinich was the real liberal in 2004!

[Radical Activist]

10. I'm not Bush-lite. I'm from the democratic wing of the Democratic Party

Those and similar phrases give a clear impression. That is what they were intended to do.

[IndianaGreen]

13. The "democratic wing of the Democratic Party" as opposed to the GOP

wing of the Democratic Party. You know who they are! The ones that stood in the Rose Garden next to Bush as he signed the IWR. The ones that stood next to John Ashcroft as Bush signed PATRIOT.

[JaneQPublic]

28. Dean labels himself a social progressive/fiscal conservative

He always has, and still does.

Here he is speaking on Larry King on October 1, 2003:

DEAN: I am fiscally conservative, and I'm very proud of it. I think that what we need in this presidency is the opposite of what President Bush is. He is a borrow and spend, borrow and spend, credit card president, who is not conservative about money at all and not socially progressive. I'm socially progressive. I'm fiscally conservative, and I have a record to show it, and I'm very proud of that.
http://www-cgi.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/01/ltm.04.html

What he said on MTP Sunday is no different that he's been saying all along when someone tries to pin identify him as liberal. Here he is on Larry King again, in August 2002, saying pretty much the same thing about being liberal that he said last Sunday:

DEAN: ...You know, they all say, Well, he's so liberal. Well, if liberal is balancing budgets, please do call me a liberal. No Republican president has balanced a budget in 34 years in this country. If you want jobs and investment in this country, you're going to have to have a Democrat because the Republicans simply can't handle money.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/04/lkl.00.html

But, hey, if you want to fault the guy for "running from the liberal label" when he never claimed to be liberal, be my guest.

(Edit: to add link.)

[Cheswick2.0]

32. compared to everyone else in the race but Sharpton

he was right.

[baba]

34. Being moderate does not mean Bush lite!

There is a huge difference.

[wyldwolf]

36. But he didn't oppose the war, just Bush's plan and execution

[IronLionZion]

11. Dean thinks independently on the issues

some of his views are liberal, some are moderate, some are conservative. Who cares? The labels are stupid and meaningless anyway. The conservative to end all conservatives - Thomas Jefferson, was surprisingly similar to a flaming liberal - Michael Dukakis.

Some people assumed he was liberal, and those people are responsible for their own assumptions. The liberal corporate media really hammered in the liberal meme because of his opposition to the Iraq war. That and a lot of his own supporters really wanted him to be a flamin lefty, so they pretended he was.

[madfloridian]

15. Dean often said if they call me a liberal...they are too far right.

He said it often. Never claimed to be a liberal or anything else...he is just practical in his decision. He says if the party is accusing him of being too liberal, then it shows how extremely right they have become.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Julien Sorel]

18. Dean identifying with Barbara Boxer during the primaries

was the kicker. Barbara Boxer, he said, was "another Democrat from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party." Boxer is about as liberal a statewide politician as there is in this country; for Dean to have pretended some political kinship with her is laughable. But he wasn't running to the left in the primaries -- heck no. He meant something else by implying that he and Boxer were on the same political page.

[Radical Activist]

20. I didn't know about that at the time

Now what else could he have meant by identifying himself with Boxer in that way? Funny.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. He also identified with Wellstone

Granted he's not nearly as liberal as Wellstone, but they were both good on their war position.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Completely out of context

"I'm not what you would call a stereotypical northeastern liberal, I've balanced budgets, provided healthcare for everybody under 18, signed the first civil unions bill, and got 8 consecutive endorsements from the NRA." It's not running away from the liberal label, he was just telling the truth, which is that he is not what people stereotypically view as a "northeastern liberal".

[Radical Activist]

26. Russert asked three questions

in an effort to get Dean to reconcile his liberal image through much of the primary and the moderate approach he's taking now and as Governor. He avoided answering the question directly the first two times and this was the most direct answer he gave. I'm not sure what else Dean might have said in response.

[madfloridian]

27. Because the labels don't fit.

None of the labels fit. Nor should they.

You are getting a little obvious.

[Pirate Smile]

38. The liberal image was laid on him by the media. It was inaccurate then

and it is inaccurate now.

[NoPasaran]

29. Is there actually a point to this?

Or are some people just chilly and wanting a good flame war to warm things up?
:shrug:

[Forkboy]

30. Deanophobia...the disease with no cure

[Cheswick2.0]

31. D'oh

Here we go again. :silly:

[thedailyshow]

35. Dean was never a liberal---his record is actually that of a centrist

[quaker bill]

37. It makes sense. Dean never was a "liberal".

How this remains news to anyone is beyond me.

[bemildred]

39. Fuck labels. nt

[Leilani]

40. I liked the interview & started a thread about it.

I've always liked Dean's position on guns, which is not standard liberal knee-jerk position.

Rural states just get nuts about gun control, & I don't blame them.

[mandyky]

41. Many, many Dean supporters knew Dean was not as liberal as MSM

claimed. Dean is more of a populist than liberal. I don't think he was running away from anything on MTP. I think what he is trying to do by subduing himself is to undo the other MSM meme that he is nuts or a loose cannon, esp after the Scream speech.

[sonicx]

42. i care more about issues than labels. nt

[youngred]

43. Anyone who believed Dean was really liberal

hadn't done their homework.

He was appealing because of the fresh message he brought and the fresh ideas, but a liberal he never was nor claimed to be.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. he is liberal where it really counts

he is pro-choice, he lowered child abuse rates, he lowered unemployment rates, he provided almost universal healthcare, he signed the first gay union legislation in the country, He was against this unjust war in Iraq, he is against NCLB and the Patriot Act.

He balanced the budget in VT. and he is a populist.... my kind of liberal.

[youngred]

50. I like the v. 2.0 Ches

most dems are pro-choice, lowering child abuse rates are hardly a product of a governor, lowering unemployment rates probably had something to do with the whole nation's unemployment going down, he didn't provide nearly universal healthcare, signed the gay union bill under duress after initially opposing it, was against the Iraq war later than some, but still came out against it and many dems are against NCLB and The PATRIOT act. I believe vermont already had a balanced budget and while he has used populist tactics he isn't necessarily a populist.

He's a moderate reformer from outside the beltway, but let's not make him what he's not.

[XemaSab]

44. There's a difference...

...between being a moderate, and bending over and taking it up the bum from this administration.

This is something SOME folks haven't learned.

I got this e-mail from DiFi today:

Thank you for writing to express your views on the
Fiscal Year 2005 Omnibus Appropriations bill. I
appreciate hearing from you and welcome the
opportunity to respond.

On November 20, the U.S. Senate voted 65 to 30
to approve the Omnibus package, which provides $388
billion to fund 13 Cabinet level departments and many
smaller agencies. While the Omnibus Appropriations bill
is far from perfect, I voted for the legislation because I
believe that, on balance, it is beneficial to California and
the Nation.

(blah blah blah)

While I voted for this legislation, I am troubled by
some of the bill's provisions and by the process in which
it was considered. One of the primary responsibilities of
the Congress is to appropriate funding for federal
government activities. This is done through the 13
annual appropriations bills. In recent years, however, the
process has broken down and many of the bills are
combined into an end-of-the-year omnibus bill. The
result is a limitation on the Senate's ability to
appropriately consider how federal government
departments and agencies are funded.

As a member of the Senate Appropriations
Committee, I am committed to my responsibility for
oversight of federal spending and the Congressional
budget process. I hope you will continue to keep in to
keep touch on issues of importance to you. If you have
any further questions or comments, please do not hesitate
to contact my Washington, DC staff at [phone].

Sincerely yours,

Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

I don't think Howard's one who has a lot of practice in grabbing his ankles like our friend Dianne does.

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. I think that whatever Dean says, there are some people who will read

too much into it.

[madfloridian]

46. It is called Deanphobia. They can't help themselves.

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. Hey there!

:hi:

[eridani]

49. He was never liberal

That's why I was a Kucinich supporter. However, right at the moment I'm more interested in where Dems are on the wuss vs. real fighting opposition continuum than where they are on the center vs. left continuum, which is why I'd like Dean to be the DNC chair.

[RetroLounge]

51. Wow! More Deanphobia from the usual suspects.

Maybe Stem Cell Research can cure Deanphobia someday...

RL