Only the Muslim world?

[question everything]

Newsweek has a story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6700425/site/newsweek/ about a few Muslim feminists who are rocking the boat.

The story starts with this sentence: " For more than 30 years, much of the Muslim world has been sliding backward, away from modernity" and I could not help but thinking that many communities in this country have been sliding backward, too, but, of course, it is a lot easier to point a finger at others.

[mairceridwen]

1. Afgahnistan

Before the taliban, used to be a good place for muslim women. Actually, there are lots and lots of feminist-type and other subversive organizations/groups in the supposed "backward" cultures and always have been...well maybe not always.

Did you know that a couple hundred years ago, Turkish women could divorce their husbands if they didn't keep the home stocked with plenty of coffee? It was believed to be an aphrodesiac.


mmmmmm...turkish coffee

[Kali]

2. Turkish women still have pretty

tight reign on their men in a lot of ways, though I wouldn't want to be a rural woman.

Turkish coffee = can you say mud?
Turkish chai/tea = heaven!

[mairceridwen]

3. my name is mud

where do you get your turkish coffee from? i haven't had any since i moved away from boston and the little cafe across the street that made it special (more turkish than not) for me and gave me free refills.

[Kali]

4. actually, there

in Turkey. I am more of a tea person anyway, but don't really care for thick coffee "shots" - have you tried Greek? Pretty similar I think. I brought some tea back with me but there are lots of on-line markets try googling Turkish Coffee.

[mairceridwen]

5. actually

I am more of a tea person too which is another reason I haven't chased down any turkish coffee 'roun these parts. Actually, I am kind of a tea-nut. What kinds of tea do you like? Have you tried pureh (that may not be spelled right) yet? It's supposed to treat all that ails, but it doesn't sound that good. I have some, but still haven't had any.

[Kali]

6. oh I'm definitly not a pro

I just like the taste of teas better than coffee - drink both but tend to adulterate the coffee with a lot of sugar and fake powder creamer - everyone tells me I wouldn't know good coffee if I drowned in it! I like black tea and drink a lot of it hot in the winter - Just learning about stuff other than Liptons! I just tried some from Russia the other day and it was really good - it may be Turkish too, they grow a lot in the eastern part the country. In the summer I live on sun tea (usually liptons, but may start trying some others) I love the way it smells. And it might actually be good for you, that's a kick for me. Green tea is too bland, although when the weather is hot and humid a warm glass really cools you off.

[mairceridwen]

8. hot tea

is cooling in the summer time. no one believes me.

i often drink jasmine green tea which brightens the flavor tremendously. i do like the earthy flavor of green tea, but i do have to be in the mood for it

sun tea is good too. here in atlanta there is lots of sweet tea, which i liked for a while but now it's too sweet and makes my teeth ache and my tummy hurt.

for Black tea, I really like Barry's, an irish brand.

[RafterMan]

9. Turkish apple tea

There's nothing like it.

[Kali]

15. eh for some reason I didn't really care for it.

I tend to NOT like tea that isn't really TEA, though I drank a lot of chamomile when my oldest child was nursing in an attempt to deal with his colic - and I like some flavored teas - have had good peach and rasberry, but have also had some AWFUL ones.

Now for Turkish beverages lets not forget Lion's Milk - Raki :evilgrin: Sherefe!

[Lexingtonian]

7. yeah, that's how it goes

There's a brief (10-15 year) embrace of the Modern world- technology and other goodies- until someone starts challenging the political arrangements and polarization begins until It's Backlash Time. Then there's a generation or two during which the reactionaries dominate, the young learn both sides and stop believing all the retrogressive crap, and historical change patterns of the kind in the end the reactionaries break down bit by little bit- usually the last 10 years of ~ 75 they're in a crumble and the rear guard/obsolete nature of their efforts is obvious.

Afghanistan. Iran, Palestinians, Israelis, Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, the U.S. ....

It's the problem of the Modern World. It takes about three generations to get through the full cycle (i.e. the people of the society who grew up outside the Modern World and half of the first generation into the Modern changes have to die out before there's a Modern-accepting majority). The U.S.'s collision with Modernity began in ~1942-45, Western Europe's in 1945, the Near East's and East Asia's in 1948/1950. (Russia and Eastern Europe are off cycle, doing some other 75 year thing from 1917-1992 that doesn't fit nicely to Modern issues, but could have ratcheted in with Western Europe in some substantial way recently to form a lag time of maybe 1 generation/25 years.)

Arguably we're ~15 years from the full resolution of the present mess of Modern Age issues inside the U.S., and if the pattern holds up in detail there's 0-5 years to go until domination by the reactionary side breaks down.

There isn't a 'sliding away' from Modernity to the process- it's that a few facets are dealt with in the beginning and accommodated, but as the facets grow in number with exposure to Modern world conditions the difficulty of accommodating them grows until a majority is willing to reject them all politically. And accept all that can be dealt with privately, in the standard hypocrisy of anti-Modern conservatism. When Modern things grow large enough in the arenas of private life (ethnic and religious minorities, women's rights within a marriage, divorce settlements, gay relationships, intermarriage, taxation/state subsidy matters) the parts become violent in private life and break out into the political arena again as one side or the other resorts to government intervention to legalize or suppress it.

It's not just the Muslim world. Of course.

[JCMach1]

10. Sorry, but women are moving forward here 'FAST' don't believe

the general party-line articles about this part of the world you get in the west.

[Bridget Burke]

11. Yes--there's no "Muslim World"

There are numerous countries with Muslim majorities--& they differ from each other in many respects.

And there are many countries with growing Muslim minorities. I hear some Europeans complaining about how Muslim women are treated in their countries--but the Muslim ladies I've met here in Houston tend to be educated & not oppressed.

[Kali]

14. I have not visited your country

though there were a LOT of (MALE) students from there when I was in college, but my impression is women are pretty far from any sort of social or political equality yet. Perhaps you could give some examples?

[ArkDem]

12. Here is a good example of how women are advancing in

Saudi Arabia:

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=52824&d=13&m=10&y=2004

[enfield collector]

13. looks like they're making "real progress" /sarcasm