A cue from the West Wing?

[question everything]

No, really this is about politics.

If you watch this, and the series is a year behind real time, we are going to start a new election cycle, primaries, etc. And the spot light is on the Republican candidate - played by Alan Alda - who is described as a moderate California Republican.

And we discussed this and I know that if there is ever a Republican presidential candidate from California, that party will win easily. But then, I doubt that the Republicans are going to nominate a moderate any time soon. After all, the Jesus brigade is now ready to demand its payola.

[w13rd0]

1. And in the last episode...

...Josh did his "smoke filled backroom" and decided on Jimmy Smits character as the Democrats "dark horse" candidate. A maverick from Congress that counts health care as his "signature issue" as the filing deadline approaches. Of course, Russel and Hoynes will likely bend over backwards to torpedo Josh, since he spurned their advances.

[LizW]

7. I like that part of the story

Remember that Josh left Hoynes to go to Jeb Bartlett's campaign way back when (they did a flashback episode one time). The reason was that Josh is a true believer; he has to be with the candidate who is "the real thing". He went and got Sam from some high paying private legal practice and told him he had found the guy they had to work for.

He had almost changed and I was so glad Leo told him to go find the guy. The other Democratic possibilities are crappy and Josh would have had a hard time working for either of them.

I wonder how he's going to convince the Smits character to run, though.

And yes, I know these aren't real people. ;)

[question everything]

11. This was a great episode. He was standing in the rain calling Sam

There were some similarity between Bartlett and Clinton and Gore. All highly intellectual people and proud of it. I doubt that we will ever have such a person in the White House.

Josiah Bartlett - isn't this the name of one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence? - is a Nobel prize winner in Economic, a former college professor and a former Governor of - not sure - New Hampshire?

This has been our trouble in real time: finding good, solid candidates with some track record and real agenda and the ability to deliver it.

I think that Edwards can still make it if he will really work on an agenda that covers all areas. Positive items, not just attacking Republicans which is just too easy. A real desire to do good, not just to advance one's ego.

[mcscajun]

13. Yes, Josiah Bartlett signed the Declaration of Independence...

...and the early episodes established that Jed Bartlett is a descendant.

[question everything]

18. Thank you. I did not remember that

And, of course, they talk so fast that I often miss a word here and there...

[VolcanoJen]

22. And how come they've turned Will Bailey...

... into such a power-hungry jackass this season?

It's been interesting, watching Will flex his muscles. I don't like him this year, but I don't like tennis-playing Bingo Bob, either.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. Will Bailey isn't a strong character

They probably sent him to Russell's office because they knew that he couldn't be a replacement for Sam.

[zann725]

32. I never liked him. He doesn't seem to be an 'ensemble' actor...

OR character. All the other actors (no matter how much notoriety) all seem to comfortably share the stage and storyline...but since Will entered the 'scene'...he seems to want to steal every scene. And quite frankly, I find him obnoxious. I miss Sam Seaborne.

[VolcanoJen]

34. Sam cannot be replaced!

I had high hopes for Will when they first introduced him, though. Remember when Sam passed a note to Toby and Josh which read, simply, "He's one of us"?

Well, he's not one of us, and that became abundantly obvious in the last episode, for certain. He was completely unapologetic about Bingo Bob's grandstanding press conference. Sam would have put the country and his president first.

It's been an interesting turn for Will, though. He's easily my least favorite character.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. The scene where he gets Sam to join him is incredible

Josh is wandering around in the pouring rain trying to find Sam's law firm. Sam is in a meeting and getting scolded at for doing something ethical. Josh walks in the door without saying anything he just smiles and Sam gets up and walks toward the door. They ask him "where are you going?" Sam replies "New Hampshire".

[zann725]

33. My three favorite episodes are "Let Bartlett Be Bartlett"...

...about not setting-the-bar too low. And episode where they all gather round at the end and solemnly proclaim, "I serve at the pleasure of the President."

And "Two Cathedrals"...about the funeral of Ms. Lannahan, and Jeb's decision to run for a Second Term.

And MY MOST FAVORITE, (about the process of Filibuster). How the Senator whose son is autistic stands for hours on end without a rest to keep the bill open to add a provision for autistic kids.
When the other Senators ("grandfathers all") come to the Senate floor to help him filibuster...it ALWAYS gives me chills.

[displacedyankeedem]

40. The Stackhouse Filibuster?

Yeah, that one warms my heart too, especially with the innovative story-telling through te e-mails.

[Cheswick2.0]

44. yes I love that episode too

remember CJ (I think it was CJ) keeps saying "let him ask a question" and he lets the other guy ask him a question? It makes me wish we had such a congress. Robert Byrd is the only one who seems to have that kind of statesmanship anymore.

[Hippo_Tron]

2. Very good point, except Alan Alda's character doesn't exist IRL

There's no such thing as a decent Republican, which is what Alan Alada's character is portrayed as. BTW they're actually a year ahead. In the West Wing world, presidential elections take place in the years that our midterm elections take place. Bartlet was elected in 1998, and re-elected in 2002. In the show it is 2005, the upcoming election is in 2006.

[zann725]

3. Now that Sorkin no longer writes the show...

they're more in the 'twilight zone' than in any particular reality-based year.

I can no longer watch it. So sad.

[Gin]

4. Before too long....Rush will be on.........it's not the same show....too

bad.....I really enjoyed it.

[MaineDem]

8. The last few episodes have been back to standard again, IMHO

I was very disappointed in the show last year but I feel it's improving again.

[Oreo]

10. I completely agree

The last 3 episodes are very much back to the standards of the Sorkin days. I haven't looked forward to seeing a new episode like this since the pre-Zoe kidnap days.

I think Smits will be president and he'll keep the same staff. No way they'd turn this into a republican show! I actually think it's a good vehicle for educating people on real issues.

[Killarney]

27. Yeah, it'll be Smits v Alda and Smits will win

and Josh will be the new Leo.

And Josh & Donna will bang.

My theories. :)

[zann725]

35. Ugh! I could only ever vote for "Bartlett."

Besides, since I believe in the rights of Disabled people, and greatly admired F.D.R., I was hoping they'd use Bartlett's Multiple Sclerosis in a positive way...showing him functioning as a President, even in a wheelchair. Storyline aside, medically he should NOT have deteriorated as quickly as he did. That's particularly troubling, and unrealistic (plotwise) to me.

[zann725]

25. Not the ones I've channel-surfed through.

Hasn't Bartlett's MS suddenly spread quicker than a rumor through a blog site? Aren't they essentially writing him out soon?

[Cleita]

16. They also talked about Bartlett running for a third term, something

we can't do because of two term limits.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Josh was saying "I wish Bartlet could run for a third term"

In response to the fact that neither Hoynes nor Russell would be as good of a President as Bartlet.

[Cheswick2.0]

19. Yes I noticed that they are having an election a year early

I think they want to change the cast and didn't want to wait. The show is not as good as it used to be, but this year is better than last.

[zann725]

36. I heard Sorkin quit because the Right wanted to dictate plot lines...

and did not like his liberal views.

That's probably why they're speeding up Bartlett's M.S., so they can usher in a more Repug President to replace him.

[liberalpragmatist]

23. I get the impression they're purposely vague on the timeframe

I've never seen anything suggesting what year it actually is. It's always just somewhere "around" current days, maybe a couple years in the future or a couple years back.

It does sort of seem like the midterm and presidential races are flipped, but then again, they make historical references to other presidential campaigns, so it wouldn't really make sense for the show to have the presidential races suddenly shift at some point in history.

One fan site suggested that in the West Wing world there's a provision in the 25th Amendment for a new election for a four-year term after a vacancy. So for instance, if a President dies in office before the midterms, there's a special election in the next midterm race for a full four-year term (I've seen some legal scholars advocate this in real life). If the President dies within 2 years of the regular election, there's no special election, just the regular one.

[liberalpragmatist]

24. delete

nt

[zann725]

37. I also heard if a President-elect dies before Inauguration,

the candidate with the next highest amount of votes wins?

Would that mean ??? the Alan Alda character?

[ticapnews]

42. The West Wing timeline has been established a few times...

most memorably (for me) when Bartlet is supposed to speak at the 60th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor at the Smithsonian in 2001 (The Women of Qumar).

If you are interested in seeing where the story is going to go you can check http://westwing.bewarne.com/extras/spoilerblog.html for a bunch of spoilers about plotline and some interesting character development...

[SharonRB]

5. What's up with Donna?

Do you think she's gone for good or that she'll be back? I have a couple of theories:

Josh will run Jimmy Smits' character's campaign and will ask Donna to help him run it. He will win and she will wind up with a higher position in the new administration.

They've removed her from her position as Josh's secretary so they could finally start a romance.

What does anyone think?

[question everything]

9. Frankly, I never understood her role and her acting ability

Like Mary Louise Parker she was always a one expression character, really a gopher for Josh but, hey, she was blond.

Remember the first episode they had a great political strategist, a fire cracker who was... brunette, and they got rid of her. Then they had a blond Republican staff - now in CSI Miami - and now a new blond as Press Secretary but, hey, I loved Kristine Chenoweth in Wicked so was glad to see her here.

[zann725]

38. I liked the Mary Louise Parker character. She was so 'ballsy'...

and a perfect match for the "emotionally compartmenalized" Josh.

Plus they were able to discuss a lot of Women's issues due to M.L. Parker's position as head of Women's Org. Plus she has that vulnerability, which gave her "toughness" a real ironic kick.

[PittLib]

45. "We have to think of celebrated heads of state ...

or especially great communicators - did they have brains or knowledge? Don't make me laugh! They were POPULAR! Please! It's all about pop-u-lar"

I saw Wicked with a friend who coincidently won a signed West Wing script during a local theater fundraiser raffle. Kind of ironic since he's a moderate republican who decided to vote for Kerry shortly thereafter. I'm chipping away at him. The night before seeing Wicked, I made him go with to the "Retire Tom Delay" fundraiser in NYC with Al Franken and Howard Dean ... he talked to Dean more than I did.

[mcscajun]

14. Spoiler!

Donna has gone to the Vice President's office...we'll see that shortly.

[SharonRB]

15. Thanks!

How did you find that out? I didn't think they'd take her off completely. They certainly had their chance when she was in the car bombing if they had wanted to do that. This should really start some fireworks between her and Josh if she's defected to the VP's office!

[mcscajun]

21. Got the info from a West Wing board before the season started.

And yes, it seems likely they've split up Josh and Donna professionally so they can explore the personal.

[Cheswick2.0]

6. here's a scary idea

The Jesus brigade will be happy to vote for a moderate republican as long as he/she mentions religion a couple of times. They will vote for who ever the party machine tells them to vote for, just like democrats did this election.

[lojasmo]

12. Yup. The fundies will get their payola in this admin....

McCain will be the one next....he could easily win Ca.

Edited to say: unless we nominate a truth-telling ass-kicker.

[Cleita]

17. In real life there will be no moderate Republican.

If that were true McCain would have been the nominee in 2000, not Bush.

[TheWraith]

41. Nah.

The fundies can't get it up unless they've got a real live fellow Nazi to vote for, otherwise they stay home--ala 92 and 96.

[Lugnut]

20. I almost quit watching West Wing

In fact Imissed a lot of episodes last season. I'm glad I gave it another chance because I think this season is better.

[liberalpragmatist]

26. Whatever happened to Moira Kelly's character?

Remember she was some staffer in the West Wing, who was actually Josh's former love interest. I remember there was an episode where it emerged that before Bartlet won the presidency she had done opposition research on him which was no coming to damage him, but they never really elaborated on whether or not that was the reason she left. She just disappeared without explanation.

Of course, it's a workplace show not a family show. Nothing irritates me more than when a family sitcom abruptly drops characters - remember Family Matters or even Happy Days (brother Chuck?). In a workplace setting it's more believable.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. West Wing characters don't laeve with an explanation usually...

Why Sam didn't come back after he lost the congressional race (or whether he won) is still a mystery.

[zann725]

39. Wish he would come back. He added a lot of stature to the plotline & show

(Plus alright....he's easy on the eyes.)

[ticapnews]

43. Sam lost the election...

it was established in his final episode when Toby says "they're going to throw rocks at you" but he wanted to be standing next to Sam when it happened. He was down seven in the polls with a few days left, so it is safe to assume he lost by double digits.

Rob Lowe left the show because of contract/storyline/ego problems.