Local guy said "if they don't want to swallow the DLC....stick it to them.

[madfloridian]

Neither of these guys are officials in the party now, because of lack of accomplishment. Grizzard was not elected locally at all this time. Guess he did not get to "stick (the DLC) to them."

http://www.tnr.com/082800/foer082800.html

SNIP..."And the centrists know it; throughout the convention, their triumphalism is palpable. "We've been responsible for the rank and file coming back to this party," boasts DLC founder Al From. "Even if we lose this election--and I don't suspect we will--the movement won't go away." Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, the DLC think tank, says of the relationship between centrists and liberals in the party: "It's a role reversal. We used to be outside taking shots . Now we're enthroned and they're constantly attacking us."

(Grizzard and Poe are out of the party leadership now, and new blood are coming in. )

This paragraph speaks of Rosenberg with the Florida delegation.

SNIP..." Everywhere we turn, it seems, he's running into a congressional candidate or city councilman or state representative or another "one of the bright young stars we're working with." Making his way through the Florida delegation, for example, he's greeted by the state party chair, the head of the state DLC, and a gruff lawyer from Lakeland named Bob Grizzard. Defiantly wearing a t-shirt from Clinton's 1992 campaign over his checkered oxford shirt, Grizzard tells me he's a "proud member of the DLC." When I ask him about the prominence of liberal speakers on the convention docket, he says, "We're the party of diversity and inclusion," then pauses before adding, "and if they don't want to swallow DLC, we'll stick it to 'em." A minute later, he grabs the shoulders of an African American delegate and pulls him over. "He's not quite with us yet," Grizzard confides to me jokingly, "but we'll give him time." Grizzard's friends are a little embarrassed by the gesture but share his triumphalism nonetheless. "The DLC is the wind in our sails," says Bob Poe, the state party chair...."

[LoZoccolo]

1. This article is old, it's over four years old.

You keep posting old articles.

[Tinoire]

4. Which is what makes their words even more chilling.

And painfully so.

I appreciate revisiting these things. Some people are not quite aware of just how low these snakes in the grass are. Or of how many and how deeply entrenched they are.

Thanks for posting this MadFloridian.

[madfloridian]

7. Thank you for the back up, Tinoire. Old articles best show intent.

Thanks for covering my back on this. I know this Grizzard guy, and he has hurt the party here. I remember trying to talk to Poe on the phone at party HQ....he was absolutely clueless.

[Tinoire]

13. I don't know Grizzard but I do know the latest neo-con the DLC has

brought on board. Marshall Wittman. Wonder who's coming back next, Richard Perle? Wolfowitz? Feith?

2 time PNAC signatory (at least)- once in Sept 04
Neocon co-chair of "the Project for Conservative Reform".
Aide to Alan Keyes
Campaign Mgr for NeoCon John McCain
Director of Legislative Affairs for Ralph Reed's Christian Coalition
Hudson Institute
Heritage Foundation,
Administration of President George H. W. Bush.


And now? Back to the loving, welcoming arms of the neo-Liberals in the DLC.

Now he is

Also a Sr Fellow at the PPI since Sept 22, 2004:

Marshall Wittmann
Senior Fellow

Marshall Wittmann is a senior fellow at the Progressive Policy Institute. Previously, he was Director of Communications for Senator John McCain (R-AZ). Mr. Wittmann has served in various positions with the Hudson Institute, Heritage Foundation, Christian Coalition, and in the administration of President George H. W. Bush.

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=87&subsecID=112&contentID=252919

DLC | Bio | October 1, 2004
Marshall Wittmann
Senior Fellow, DLC

Marshall Wittmann is a senior fellow at the Democratic Leadership Council. Previously, he was Director of Communications for Senator John McCain (R-AZ). Mr. Wittmann has served in various positions with the Hudson Institute, Heritage Foundation, Christian Coalition and in the administration of President George H. W. Bush.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252917&kaid=86&subid=191

Entire thread on this here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1440617

[madfloridian]

16. Yes,that bothers me. Local editor called Grizzard the last of old guard.

Wittman sort of bothers me. I found Wittman's biography at Jewish World or something like that. I stashed it somewhere, will find it tomorrow.

Very interesting.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. Wittman *sort of* bothers you?

All those conservative think tanks and the Christian Coalition?

What qualifies him to be associated with an allegedly Democratic think tank, unless he has made a full confession and reformation like David Brock?

[madfloridian]

56. Yeh, I know. I am trying to be fair, but doubting.

I found an article about him today, and he has done a lot of changing and then changing again. First liberal, then disillusioned, then right wing, then disillusioned. Then middle of the road, he calls it....

His writing is good, but a lot of it is way too conservative for me.

Yeh, I have my doubts. David Brock sounds a lot more like a heart-felt Democrat than Wittman does.

[Robeson]

18. Wise words....

...it never hurts to go back and read original intent. If one had read Mein Kampf, they would never have been surprised about the actions of Hitler in later years.

[Guaranteed]

15. Yes. Use your mind. nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

21. No, wyldwolf, I missed this one. We need to speak out now.

I am sorry, go after me as much as you like. Our party is in trouble now because of the years these guys took the reins....and we were not aware. I know the two mentioned in the article, so it brings it home a little.

Is it divisive? No more than their tactics have been.

[wyldwolf]

22. it isn't always about you.

Why is it that everytime someone disagrees with you, it becomes an attack on you?

And in this case, whether you saw the article before or not, continually posting such things is really pointless.

You're not going to change any minds, and your Google data-mining for anything related to the DLC isn't going to help your cause.

We get it. You hate the DLC. Just put in in your signature to remind everyone so you can branch out a little in your posts.

[madfloridian]

23. No, it is not about me. It is about this country. The DLC has harmed us.

And how we are now a one-party country basically. Sorry, but this won't work anymore.

I do not like the DLC, you are so right. I think they have taken us where we do not need to go. You go with them, I won't.

[wyldwolf]

24. like I said. We understand that you feel that way...

..we understand that others feel that way.

But your posts have become mirror images of each other. Never any new info. Just regurgitation - and in this case 4 year old regurgitation.

If one were to judge the party by DU (and God help us if anyone ever did), they would see a party easy to defeat if only because of the infighting.

While you're trying to slay your DLC dragon, you may let the real enemy in the gates.

[madfloridian]

26. "mirror images" "regurgitation" "real enemy"

Well, if you think I am the "real enemy" then God help us all.

[wyldwolf]

47. where did I even imply you were the real enemy?

:eyes:

[Q]

29. Very predictable...

...but such is life.

There are many DUers who are newbies that know little or nothing about the DLC. Many more of us didn't know anything about them until after the 2000 campaign when they started trashing Gore.

Why is it that some don't want Democrats to know about their own party's little 'shadow government' trying to call the shots behind the scenes?

Could it be that...like the Neocons...their agenda would never be accepted by the majority if all the details are known?

[Sugarbleus]

2. I told yous so!!

:puke:

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Ok the DLC has LOST the last six congresional

cylces

They refuse to face the elephant in the room (fraud) but they think we will just take it?

Who the hell are they kidding?

Hence why I will be running for state office in this state my objective to build this as a progressive party from the ground up

[Tinoire]

8. You will need a resident researcher. An Assistant.

Remember me. ;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I will,

and it is time we retake the party from these snakes... let them go where they belong... the RNC

[Tinoire]

17. Yikes...

Made a post somewhat to that effect earlier. I have no problems with Republicans who want to be in the Dem party because they've "seen the light" or whatever but I do have an enormous problem with Republicans coming over and trying to remake our party in their own image simply because they're having a personality difference with Bush. I think the phrase I used was 'repent in silence'.

Harsh I know but the future of my party is at stake.

[Capn Sunshine]

46. The DEMOCRATS lost

the DLC is a private insider club, with far less influenec that folks ascribe to them.

[bobbieinok]

54. we may never know who won and who lost in 2004

[madfloridian]

5. I referred to the fact that they are out now. Grizzard just out this time

This month. Have the policies changed? Did it change that Poe and Grizzard failed the party in Florida.

Please go and ask the administrators if I may post old articles. Of course I do....it shows the intent and beginnings of why we are where we are now.

[LoZoccolo]

6. Never mind, I'm sorry. n/t

[madfloridian]

10. Thanks.

This one hit home because I know them. It was a bitter battle here this time.....4 of 7 elected were Dean supporters, showing fatique with the old guard.

[LoZoccolo]

9. But you should see my triangulation thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1441401&mesg_id=1441401

[madfloridian]

11. Well, I don't triangulate much yet, but I will take a gander at it.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

12. Oh, this part is really bad.

No place to backslide to....right..there is not a solid foundation left.

SNIP..."What's more, it's not clear that there's any place to backslide to. Throughout the convention, it becomes increasingly evident that even party liberals have mostly acceded to the New Democrat ascendance. Walking down a corridor, Rosenberg engages in a meaningful exchange with an aide to Dick Gephardt. Back on the floor, he shares a friendly handshake with liberal pollster Stan Greenberg. In a DNC skybox above the convention floor, a union official grabs him. "Hey, you stinkin' guy, are you trying to elect all those conservatives still?" But he quickly pulls Rosenberg aside and starts gossiping and joking before asking a favor: "If we can only get Lieberman straight on vouchers, we could get excited. Can you talk to them about that?"

[madfloridian]

19. Platform: "It's a document devoid of any of the old liberal hobbyhorses"

The thoroughness of the DLC's victory is apparent in this year's party platform--written by a former editor of the DLC journal Blueprint. It's a document devoid of any of the old liberal hobbyhorses. There's no call to reduce defense spending or hike taxes and no complaints about globalization or the death penalty. Organized labor and other interest groups were able to score only miniscule concessions--such as replacing the words "free trade" with "open trade."

The DLC's triumph was further cemented by Gore's choice of a running mate, which allayed lingering fears that the vice president might not run a centrist campaign. Rosenberg, in particular, is effusive about the selection of Lieberman, who helped him found the New Democrat Network in 1996. "I don't mind saying," he confides, "that I had doubts about Gore and the direction of his campaign." Or, as Will Marshall puts it, "The selection of Senator Lieberman decisively pushed Gore into the camp of New Democrat reform and against the temptation to backslide."

[Walt Starr]

27. So basically, those who say the DLC have no real power

are blowing smoke out of their asses!

[Q]

33. Their power is not out front where everyone can see...

...they're the 'Trojan Horse' inside the party...making deals and manipulating Democratic policies and politics behind the scenes. They're like Rove in that they don't have to be in a leadership role to steer the party.

[wyldwolf]

25. .

[Q]

28. PNAC Marshall: "Now we're enthroned.."

Wow. Even if they lose they 'won't go away'. A losing strategy won't discourage them from keeping their tight grip on a party who doesn't want them.

These words and thoughts could easily be associated with the arrogance and entitlement of the religious Right and the Neocons. You're either with us or against us...and if you're against us we'll 'STICK IT TO YOU'.

[madfloridian]

30. "Now we're enthroned and they're constantly attacking us."

Yes, they still think they are enthroned. And they may be.

[Walt Starr]

31. Maybe at the '08 convention they'll be saying

Where did all our voters go?

Especially if the Green Party candidate gets more votes than they do!

[greenohio]

32. It had been 5 minutes since we attacked the DLC.

I was getting worried. It just didn't feel like DU without some Dems attacking fellow Dems. Thank you, I feel better now.

[Q]

34. You question the motivation of those who 'attack the DLC'...

...but what is YOUR motivation for following these threads around and ridiculing those who participate in them?

Just wondering...

[greenohio]

35. Tired of people picking on Feinstien, Rendell, Bayh, Cantewell

Stabenow, Warner, etc...

What really sickens me is that Dean attacks them, and then has very similar positions. His supporters turn a blind eye to his "fiscal conservative" side, his NRA support or now his "pro-life" language. Why? Because he attacks the DLC. So whenever I point out that he has positions similar to the DLC, which is true, people think I am attacking him (because the DLC is Satan.) When in fact I am making the point that we need to stop attacking the DLC.

[madfloridian]

36. Then stand up for their views. Present their viewpoint.

And stop attacking those of us with different views. It is getting out of control.

Research the stances of your candidates or politicians and present them in a fair and honest way.

Be mature in your postings about them.

[greenohio]

38. Mature like the anti DLC traitor postings?

Out of control? I would say the anti-DLC-mania is out of control. Did you post something years old to make your point? Should I do the same with Howard Dean?

[madfloridian]

41. Whoa, here, are you calling me a traitor? A traitor to what?

You go after Howard Dean all the time. Yes, Dean is very much a centrist in some of his views, but he is dead set against them in others.

SO, if we are upset with the DLC we are traitors?

[greenohio]

42. "Dean is very much a centrist in some of his views"

No. DLCers are called traitors routinely here. I never said Dean supporters are traitors. It is the anti-DLC crowd who use that word. They call them traitors, republicans, or do I need to provide links?

Is it ok to call DLCers traitors or republicans?

[madfloridian]

43. You need to use the word "traitor" very moderately.

It is strange you are choosing that word which makes everyone feel uncomfortable.

[greenohio]

48. I agree. Is it ok to call DLCers traitors?

[DemOperative]

53. Are you a member of the DLC?

I am. Are you? I'm really disappointed in the whole thing, and there's no actual leadership , they are just parroting what their members and lobbyists want them to say. They take the lead on NO issue.

Sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Harly the evil cabal they are made out to be here.
You take a list of registered democarts, and call one at random, and ask him to name a member of the DlC.

They'll probably say "Colonel Sanders"

[greenohio]

58. No I'm not. I just don't think demonizing Dems, even if I don't agree

with them on everything is the way to win. Kerry was DLC. He was our candidate in this last election. When you talk about DLC you talk about Dems that include Kerry, Rendell, Feinstein, Dodd, Cantwell, Stabenow...

[Walt Starr]

37. Interesting

You didn't name a single Democrat I would ever vote for in any form.

[Q]

39. Perhaps you're just as tired...

...as those trying to warn Democrats about the true intentions of the DLC? Everyone is tired of the BS. But it's time we talk about it?

Does one have to be a 'Dean Supporter' to be concerned about the DLC? I think you'll find that many of us haven't supported him in the past and rarely mention him in other threads. We're here because we think the DLC is a danger to the future of the party and America. That some of Dean's positions are similar to the DLC's is besides the point.

[greenohio]

40. That some of Dean's positions are similar to the DLC's is besides the pt

is exactly the point.

If you attack the DLC for a position and not give Dean the reformer the same scrutiny, then you are a hypocrite. Period.

[Capn Sunshine]

45. Please give me one quote where Dean attacks the people you mention

Or the DLC. Unless you consider "republican lite " a scathing attack.Even then , I don't recall "attacks" upon anyone by name coming from Howard Dean. could you provide some links?

No the DLC is out of the loop, a legend in their own minds.

As Dean just said last Monday, " I don't think the average American knows what the DLC is, nor do they care"

[greenohio]

49. Google too complicated? You type in what you want to search for

then you hit the search button. Links to sites that contain your criteria come up. They offer training at your local community college.

[madfloridian]

50. Wow!

.

[Forkboy]

51. You're suprised by that response?

I'm not.

[DemOperative]

52. He's not the one offering up specious BS about Howard Dean

He asked for a link or proof. And you answer with insult. I guess we know what's what all right.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. The DLC(R) party. Love it, leave it, or get it "stuck to you".

Time to go and join the opposition to the one party state. Green for me.

[loudsue]

57. We'd vote OUT all the DLCers in the Dem party, but we obviously

DON'T GET TO COUNT THE VOTES!!! The 'CONSERVATIVE/NEOCONS' own the machines that count the votes.

Until THAT SINGLE ISSUE is corrected, and ALL votes are counted fairly and honestly, then we're going to keep seeing DLCers win enough DINOsaurs into the party, that will keep the country turning toward fascism.

Kerry Kaved. Howard Dean is the one who is rising to the occasion. Someone doesn't have to be a hard left card-carrying radical leftwinger to see that the Democratic Party has been infiltrated. Dean just understands the score. And the fact that he IS centrist on a lot of his policies, it SHOULD make people wake up, and see just how far to the right the Dem party is being pushed by the DLCers.

:kick: