Democrats need to focus less on George W Bush...

[kentuck]

...and more on the real enemy. No, not the terrorists. The real enemy of Democrats and the American people are radical conservatives that have taken over our House and Senate. George W Bush is a weak and simple-minded figure-head behind their radical agenda. He is no leader. He follows their advice and counsel.

For example, Senator Bill Frist, the Majority Leader, wants to do away with the "filibuster" rule so they can push through whatever radical idea that has been lying dormant in their warped and sick minds for the last 50 years. He has already appointed Sam Brownback and Tom Coburn to the Judiciary Committee and that is the Committee that determines judicial nominees. Both are radical anti-abortionists and God knows how far their beliefs will take them.

As the Democrats focused on George W Bush in the last two elections, the radicals in Congress were tightening their grip around the throats of America. Their radical agenda stayed out of the sunlight as Democrats focused on the incompetent and incurious Bush. And now they are ready to strangle the last breath out of the Democratic Party.

That is why we need to focus on the real enemy more and on the "trojan horse" leader a little less. George W Bush is a lame duck already - even before he is nominated for his second term. The Congress is supposed the House of the People. The Democratic Party is supposed to be the Party of the People. That is the way it has always been and the way it should be now.

[Kolesar]

1. Kevin Philips noted that John Kerry "didn't get it"

Kerry did not get that he should be running against the radical right wingers that have taken over the republicans and the bush government. Philips predicted that JK would lose on that account.

[flordehinojos]

2. but you can be darn sure that thetrojan horse leader will do everything in

his power to keep us and the rest of america focused away from the real enemy (the radical and conservatives who have taken over the House and Senate) so that they can devastate America and undo our Democracy.

[kentuck]

4. He is good at that....

No doubt. He's a snake in the grass. But he does what he is told.

[checks-n-balances]

3. You're right, and I wish we had done more of that in '04 already

It's the whole party we're fighting, not just an individual or even the BFEE, as formidable as they may be. GWB is too "likeable" and that was a factor in his garnering as many votes as he got (whatever the accurate number actually is). Lots of people are not going to surrender their visceral loyalty to this individual, but perhaps if they realized what the other branches of gov't are doing, especially Congress and the Cabinet, then maybe they will wake up.

Lots of eyes would be opened if CSpan could re-run Medicare bill proceedings from this past year when the rethugs railroaded their agenda through in the middle of the night, under the public radar. Just an example of their shady ways that have an ugly face when exposed to the light of day...

[Truman01]

5. I dissagree about our real enemy....

Couldn't agree more about not focusing on *, this board attributes everything to him or Rove, believe me he isnt all that. Our real enemy is us.

We are not the party of inclusion anymore. I'll get flamed for this post becuase I dare to disagree and say we have something to fix in our party. Everyone doesn't agree with the far left Liberal agenda, but that doesn't make them all bad. Until we stop jeering at Southerners as stupid rednecks, and religious people in general as dangerous, instead of embracing religious people who will embrace us and putting away our regional arrogance, we will continue to lose elections.

The right wing, as much as we hate them, HAS included the center of the GOP in their cabal. If you don't believe it, look at how moderate to liberal some of the GOP Senators are. The fundies are playing nice in their sandbox to stay in power.

All we can do is snipe and say how stupid people are who don't think like we do. On another thread I was amused to see that someone found a thread where a poster from Nov. 2nd had the audacity to say this election was being stolen. He was chided and called a TROLL. People here didn't like what he was saying, so instead of listening and elvaluating they took the arrogant position of calling him a Troll.

We need to be the party of the big tent. Say what you want about Ohio or Florida, if we had won one or two states in the south we would be in the white house and * would have gone down in defeat the first time.

Before you flame me, why don't you think about it. Tennessee would have put Gore over in 2000, NC and AR, TN, or VA would have put us over this time. Yes if all the conspiracy theories about fraud are true we might have lost anyway, but if they are really that powerful and good, what makes you think that a few of us, or even a lot of us are going to make them run scared? Where are we going to defeat them? The Senate? The House? The Ohio Supreme Court? The US Supreme Court?

Our arrogance, and refusal to deal with reality has lost all of those places for us. We need to stand up, look in the mirror and fix ourselves.

Tc

[tx_dem41]

9. Spot on post.

The obsession with Bush on this board gets us no where. I have to chuckle that most people on this board seem to have more respect for Bush's abilities than anyone else in this country or world.

The Democratic party needs to propose alternatives to the Republican agenda instead of just being in an knee-jerk, anti-everything mode. This country needs coordinated leadership and we have to start showing that our party can provide it.

[Truman01]

10. You better be careful Mr. Troll. :-)

The Democratic party needs to propose alternatives to the Republican agenda instead of just being in an knee-jerk, anti-everything mode.<<<<<<<<<<<,

This is one hell of a line.

TC

[tx_dem41]

11. I have already been called that once this morning..

and its just 9:20 AM....sigh.

[salin]

13. agreed, but there is more

the behind the scene players in the GOP in washington have been very effective over the period of thirty years at refocusing public perception about various issues. Simultaneously the hardball and money tactics by the house gop (esp the DeLay and Norquist contigencies that have been very successful at remolding the power structure per lobbysts, strategists, and other behind the scenes big power structure) and their success have emboldened them to take leading by excessive abuse of power to new heights.

So yes, we have to show the ability to lead. We have to promote a vision of America and leadership that is an attractive and viable alternative.

But we also have to recongize the power structure that has been built among numerous conservative constituencies over a long period of time and counter that - and do so with a similar long-term vision/strategy. We have to recognize the changes in the practices in Congress so that that we effectively counter some of their power moves on issues that are of great import to most americans - bread and butter issues... like Social Security. The changes - particularly in how the house operates - are very hard to counter but have to be done. For example - it used to be that the conference committee process was a real policy discussion and compromise session(when a bill had passed in the house and a similar bill had been written in the senate and reps from both parties and both houses come to hammer out the differences to get a final, single form of a bill that would then be voted on by both houses). Frankly, I think that good policy often resulted (as different sides often to have valid points/concerns.) But in the past session - conference meant complete overhaul of the bills and the resulting bill, often written not by congressional staffers but by lobbyists, looks nothing like either original bill. What does this mean? For the really important issues- the battle has to be before the original bills go to final form (and have a chance for "conference committee") and the fight has to be for PUBLIC PERCEPTION of issues. We have to create an effective bully pulpit to promote alternatives - and opposition to specific provisions - that in turn put pressure on the house and senate GOP. Bush isn't up for reelection - but these folks are. If the public perception is TOO strong against their positions - they KNOW it will hurt them in the polls and there will be no Bush coattails in 2006.

Point- strategy also matters and we have to get a heck of a lot better at it.

[tx_dem41]

14. Spot on as well!

You are more eloquent and less lazy than I when it comes to posting. Thanks, for your contribution.

[salin]

16. Thanks, as well...

had to read several of your posts to see where you are coming from. Sometimes we percieve a short post to suggest something different than what was intended - and sometimes there is a short attention span here at DU. But in terms of following different public policy issues and related news items I have found that this forum is unparalleled. Am about to celebrate my third anniversary - and while I have always followed political news closely (or at least I have since I did a three year stint in DC on and around the hill) I have not found the ability to tie so many related items together, nor found others with long memories that can help put a bigger picture together.

Btw, folks forget something very important, I think due to the great disappointment of the last elections... first let me reflect on that. Personally - given what I perceive as a very effective echo chamber on the right on talk radio and conservative news (particularly Fox but to a lesser extent on MSNBC where we have read about the 2:1 ratio required on various talk shows of conservative to progressive guests)... that make the ability to quickly amplify a single message much easier for the GOP (and thus make it even MORE important that while we may not have the same echo chamber - more simple, unified, and able to follow responses (eg less nuance) even more vital for us)... given this - many elections were exceptionally close. The republican majority is actually quite thin. And were it not for the easily manipulable fears surrounding 911, I really doubt that we would have seen the results we just saw. Given what I think is a very distinct disadvantage... (per shaping public perception) things are really quite close in terms of the politcal split. At least in my opinion. I think that is because there is a great illease with some of the bush policies and gop actions in congress that DO hit people in the pocket book... and as a result the "majority" status is relatively shakey.

Back to my point... people forget the great difficulty bush and congress had early in his administration. Go back to about March 2001. They quickly rewrote relatively popular Clinton regs (osha work rules, water quality (was it mercury levels or another chemical), and safety of meat that could be served in school lunches). Then they did a whirlwind tour of europe... pre Kyoto vote... bush claimed he was going to "listen and collaborate" but the reports were clear that he was bullying and not listening. Then they voted against Kyoto with real lame rationales. His "support" (thin to begin with) dropped further. They were preceived as amateurish and public perception was low. Next came the showdown on the California energy "crisis" (that we now know was primarily manufactured).... the "conservation is for sissies" message of Cheney and hardball we won't do anything in dc (and then they caved) of bush wasn't bought by anyone but the true believers who accepted the "they didn't build enough power facilitities (not true), and its the environmentalists fault (also, now, proven to be untrue.) Why did bush eventually cave on quasi short term price controls? Congressional pressure by western state republicans who KNEW he wasn't very popular and wouldn't help them with reelection.

Then he got his major big win on tax cuts... followed by the defection of Jefforts and resulting loss of the Senate. And things got even harder for them.

Then came 911 and things did significantly change.

But in this past year, until the election drew close... the ability to manage the media (eg when a negative story cameout - getting rid of it quickly - within a few days so it didn't cummulatively form a negative impression of bush and the gop) sorta dried up from about the Capture of Saddam (december 03) probably until the GOP convention. We can debate how they regained traction... that isn't the issue for me. The issue is that the public perception is reportedly declining again... making bush weak - especially on issues that he needs the congressional gop to back. Remember how long and hard (and later filled with backlash) they had to work to get their folks to pass the Medicare prescription bill? And that they failed several times on their energy bill? Why? Defections and possible defections because local constituencies weren't sold - and the fear of elction backlash was growing. I think that we are bakc to that point. And the impact of the Iraq war (and growing public sentiment that it wasn't worth it) further weakens the WhiteHouse bully pulpit. This, imo, will only escalate after the Iraqi elections (hard to figure out anyway that it might play out that will follow the line bush pushed to his supporters starting in June - that we would begin to cede power in January...)

Point, there are weaknesses, stratically that will soon be easier to exploit. The signs, imo, do not point to an overwhelming strength in the WH. It is the congressional GOP who are ruthless... and are the ones to watch. They are also the ones- if public perception can be brought to bear - that will have a harder and harder time keeping ranks. Fear of losing personal power - and NOW being the party beholden to special interests s (think democrats in the eighties) and interests that are often at core at odds with one another. If we do strategy well, this too can be exploited.

Finally, the emboldened (some in the admin, others in congress, and some of their loudest mouths in the echo chamber) are pushing very hard on policies that frankly run against the interests of a whole lot of people. They feel no restraint - and thus seem to be ready to go to the limits. In doing so, they provide the opportunity to the democrats to become the true opposition that is fighting in the ecnomic interests of americans. As more pain gets felt locally (and that is happening)... the more ability to return to the image of the dems for the people and the repubs for the biggest corporations people be damned. And they are handing it to us by the very things they are pursuing. Ironic, eh. If we don't lose sight it could be the GOP itself that reframes the power of the democratic party as the true populist party that promotes the interests of the people, of small and midsized business, of economic engines, etc.

[Kolesar]

Who is " jeering at Southerners as stupid rednecks"?

When you say "we" don't include me in this broad swath that you perceive the democrats to be. You ought not include any of the Democratic party leaders in that swath, either.

To my question, I suppose you are going to answer "people on DU", to which I would answer that DU is only a message board and only a few hundred people participate in it. The opinions of a handful don't represent the party.

[Kolesar]

18. Who is " jeering at Southerners as stupid rednecks"?

When you say "we" don't include me in this broad swath that you perceive the democrats to be. You ought not include any of the Democratic party leaders in that swath, either.

To my question, I suppose you are going to answer "people on DU", to which I would answer that DU is only a message board and only a few hundred people participate in it. The opinions of a handful don't represent the party.

[Truman01]

20. I imagine you are right, but the ones with the big mouths

are they ones who do the jeering. The ones who disagree rarely protest. Look at Merh here on this thread, or the other guy that posted Fuck the South. They give us all a bad name.

TC

[Q]

6. Bush is the LEADER of the radical conservatives...

...so how could you possibly ignore him?

Besides...the Dem party has ignored him since 2000. You can see what that brought us. And because they have ignoed him...he has been able to get away with some of the worst crimes every committed against humanity and this nation.

You should be advising the opposite.

[kentuck]

7. Ignore?

No, not ignore. But focus more on the radicals that are pulling his strings.

[Q]

8. Have you ever considered...

...that we're being led to believe that George* is just a puppet and has no real power? Bush wants you to think he's so stupid and naive that he can't be held accountable because it's the fault of the 'string-pullers'.

George may not be planning everything...but he's definately the leader of the 'radical conservatives' and he must be held accountable first and foremost.

[tx_dem41]

12. Why does any of that matter, when the goal is to convince the public...

...that the DEMOCRATS can offer the best leadership for this country....providing we can come up with a sound, principled, and attractive alternative.

[bklyncowgirl]

19. You gotta do both. nt

[kentuck]

15. It is the radical Congress and Senate that will pass the laws..

That's why they are the most dangerous.

[salin]

17. agreed- but I think they are also the GOPs biggest

liability. See my earlier posts on this thread as to why I say that. :hi:

[sampsonblk]

22. They aren't pulling anymore - he doesn't need their votes

From now on, its him. Can't blame any radicals anymore. If he doesn't want to do what they say, he doesn't have to. His in-party popularity is so high, he is King of the Right Wing. And there's nothing they can do about it.

He is bullying his own party, as well as everyone else. The others aren't nearly as big a deal. Notice he isn't trying to kiss up them - they are trying to kiss up to him.

Bill Frist? Bush can crush him like a grape at any time. (Ask Trent Lott) The GOP faithful worship Bush. Would Delay or Frist want to fight against that? And risk ruining their careers?

Bush is the new dictator of Washington.

[InvisibleBallots]

21. I agree 100%

:bounce:

[PopulistDemocrat]

23. and focus more on overturning NAFTA

and ending free trade with slaves states such as China.