If Kerry had REALLY pulled out all the stops, what types of ads would

[NAO]

we have seen? Would it have made a difference?

I can think of a few ads /campaign themes I'd have like to have seen Kerry produce:

1. In response to the "what did he do for 20 years in the Senate", I'd like to have seen ads where Kerry talked about Iran/Contra and BCCI. Of course, he would have been talking about his accomplishments, and the indictment of Bush Sr. as a lying, traitorous criminal would merely be incidental. Kerry could also have talked about the convicted criminals who are now serving in Bush's cabinet.

2. I would have like to seen the physician who did that piece on Bush's early onset senile dementia be featured on TV ads, with clips of Bush rambling, misspeaking and generally looking like an idiot. I would have like to have seen Kerry make a genuine, serious issue out of Bush's mental health and fitness for command.

3. In response to that last minute OBL appearance, I'd like to have seen an ad documenting Bush's ignoring of OBL before 9/11, his reading of "The Pet Goat" on 9/11, his statement that "I'm not really concerned about OBL anymore", then cut to the clip of the recent OBL tape. Kerry says, "America deserves a President who is concerned about OBL, if we had one this recent tape might not have been made". A nice clip of Bush lying about the "not concerned about OBL" during the second debate would have been good too.

4. In response to the SBVFT, I'd like to have seen Kerry dig up some of Bush's associates from the early 1970s to talk about his drunkenness, his cruelty, and his stupidity. An appearance from that college professor would have been nice.

Maybe I'm dreaming, but I just suspect that if Kerry had been willing to play mean and dirty, and REALLY pull out all the stops, and poured millions into creating contempt, disgust and loathing for Bush (not hard to do, even sticking to the facts) things might have turned out differently.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. Until Democrats fight dirty, they will keep on loosing!

If Democrats do NOT fight HARD and DIRTY in 06', I expect the Rethugs to get their 60 seats in the Senate!

[mzmolly]

2. Great ideas. 5. I'd like to have seen Kerry show Bush's 911 failure

in no uncertain terms. The RNC expolited Bush's failure that day, and the Democrats were silent. Nothing angers me more.

[NAO]

6. Yes, Kerry could have brought 911 Truth Movement to Mainstream

Featuring TV spots with David Ray Griffin, the eminent theologian, (that would have brought 'religion' into the Democrats efforts, for those who think that's important) and author of "The New Pearl Harbor" 9/11 Family Members, and other prominent 9/11 Truth Movement people.

If the press were forced to cover even 10% of the unanswered questions about 9/11, it would have been the end of Bush. It is only by unanimous silence/complete ignorance/media buzz saw that the official 9/11 story as not laughed out of existence.

http://www.911truth.org/

http://www.unansweredquestions.org/

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/index.shtml

[AzDar]

3. Recruit Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons...have him say, simply:

"Worst. President. Everrrrrr."

[DrCorday]

4. Two things...

I would have liked to see more about how our economy's totally falling apart. Today I read (http://slate.msn.com/id/2111504/) that even criminals are worried about the stability of the dollar. Soon we're gonna need another gold standard to save us. But I'm not sure that would have sold anyone.

Also, the Repukes like the drunkenness, it underscores his "born-again" christianity. Such bull. I mean, come on, the man is a drunk! Why is it suddenly good to be fucked up and be president? It isn't. (I didn't wanna look like a freeper and answer arguments with questions...)

This is what they say to his stupidity: So he's not that great at English, that doesn't mean he can't be a great leader.

I'll let you guys take that one. (It's obvious...)

[NAO]

7. Physicians could have talked about long term brain damage

that results from alcohol abuse. Born-again or not, years and years of heavy drinking take a toll on the physical organ of thought and judgment.

And it is a matter of public record that Bush frequently displays difficulty with thought and poor judgment.

[LoZoccolo]

5. "ALERT! ALERT! The BushCo PNAC dominionists are taking over!"

Your neighbor who goes to a Southern Baptist church, will stop at nothing to put you under the fascist dominionist regime, funded by war profiteers who engineered 9/11 and faked the Pentagon attack (cuts to that picture where it shows the plane bigger than the wreckage) to start their program of world domination. The connections are there for anyone who does not want to deliberately be blinded by themselves, or do whatever it takes to consume and keep their SUV filled! Anyone who disagrees is in cloud cuckoo land, or themselves a part of the dominionist conspiracy of left-behinders of which all 25 million fundies belong! I can put a stop to these crimes, if not completely secede us from the red-state redneck backward-ass bucktooth hick rubes completely!

I believe there's plenty of space between Mary Beth Cahill's dismissive treatment of the whole Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign and some of the more outspoken DUers. Or Mike Malloy. I think we need to find the best place in there, and it might take some time.

[Crunchy Frog]

17. No, I don't think that would have been particularly

effective. Too hyperbolic, too nuttily consiracy sounding, and too complex for the majority of voters to get. Also simply not necessary with everything else that we had available. Not saying that some of that stuff isn't true, just no way to get it accross effectively, and not necessary.

That sort of tactic seems to work better when the Rethugs use it, ie, "The Democrats are going to ban your Bibles, and are going to convert your children to homosexuality."

[LoZoccolo]

28. That was sarcasm.

The part at the bottom isn't, but the part in italics is.

[Debs]

8. I think an ad saying

George Bush is a liar, followed by him lying, and incontrovertable evidence of the lie, they had at least dozens to choose from

[Dr Fate]

10. Thank you. So simple, and truthful. But no DEMS had the guts to do it.

Why DEMs refused to tell the truth about Bush is beyond me. Too scared, too corrupt themselves, or both.

Hardly "leaders" though-certainly not fighters.

[Dr Fate]

9. Democrats- tell the SIMPLE TRUTH about Republicans??-Ha ha ha!!!!

Surely you jest.

Call Bush a "liar?"- its the truth. But you never saw Kerry do it.

Call Bush a "criminal?"- its the truth- but we never saw a top DEM do it.

Asking the Democrats to work up the guts tell the simple truth about Republicans is like asking Republicans to tell the truth about anything else.

The only difference is that DEMS refuse to tell the truth out of fear & corruptness and an inability to work the media properly.

Republicans refuse to tell the truth to remain in power.

Which is more noble?

[HeatherG.]

11. What Could Have Been Done

They could have used old footage of Bush campaigning in 1999 and all the things he promised then. That would remind the voters of all the broken promises. It would also show that he lied about the way he was going to run the Country. I could use some help getting more negative reviews for Unfit For Command on Amazon.com. Websites like the dailyhowler can help you articulate your points. Bob Sommerby of the dailyhowler did a good job debunking.

[Dr Fate]

12. But that would involve telling the TRUTH about Bush/Republicans.

And Democrats refuse to do that.

They cant even call Bush a liar, corrupt, and a criminal- all truthful statements that can be backed up with literall hundreds of examples.

But Repubs havd absolutley no fear in calling Clinton all these things and much more. Republicans are braver for some reason- and its not even always the truth when the say it-

DEMS dont even have to make stuff up- but they are still afraid of telling the truth.

Its hopeless untill DEMS can go on TV, stand solid, and speak a few simple lines of truth about Republicans.

[illflem]

13. Problem in dropping down to the Republican level

is that will always win since they are the experts at lying, spinning and cheating. The Demos have morals which prevent them from sinking to this level.

[Crunchy Frog]

16. No need to lie, spin and cheat.

As Dr Fate says, just tell the damn truth. Telling the truth is not sinking to a lower level, it's rising to a higher level.

[calimary]

29. Okaaaaaayyyy... and those morals that kept us from sinking down

to their level got us straight back into the White House, didn't they? How'd that taking-the-high-road strategy work for ya?

We SHOULD have fought dirtier. Not only all the suggestions above, but a spot about the Pet Goat. He's keeping us safer, 'eh? He's on the case, 24/7, 'eh?

I'd have liked to have seen a montage of all the mean-spirited shit he's done from mocking Karla Faye Tucker to putting down the bald reporter, having the frat brothers talk about his branding them with a burning wire and show the scars they still have, and talk about the filthy air in Houston and the pollution elsewhere in Texas. There should have been LOADS of replays of that dickhead's news conference moment wherein he whined that the questions should have been given to him in advance, and then he hemmed and hawed when asked if he'd made a mistake and the pathetic, disgraceful response he gave.

EACH instance, each statistic, each fact that exposed his negligence, stupidity, arrogance, and lies should have been followed with "...and you're okay with this?" "...and you should reward this rotten behavior?" "...would you let YOUR kid act like this?" OR: "...would you have allowed Bill Clinton to get away with this?"

I would further have done a juxtaposition of Clinton lying about Monica and bush lying about the war and the WMDs, with headline after headline and statistic after statistic and debunked quote after debunked quote from him and dick cheney "we know where they are. They're in and around Tikrit" and the quotes from David Kaye stating "we were all wrong."

Shit - they had material HANDED TO THEM ON A PLATTER. And they ignored it. No wonder we lost. And performing this shamefully, frankly, we did not deserve to win. If we want to win, we DO have to fight dirty, and lower ourselves to their level. Time and time again, research, AND RESULTS - YES, RESULTS - show that negative campaigning WORKS, even while a bajillion voices piously denounce it and poo-poo it. Fuck it. It works. You don't govern UNLESS YOU WIN. Evidently many Democrats in the hierarchy are more comfortable being losers. Hope they'll enjoy being herded off when the trains arrive...

And as far as the swift boat swifties - WHY did we let them go unanswered and unchallenged for so long? We've now had TWO, count 'em, TWO mild-mannered, principled, mealy-mouthed women running these campaigns (into the ground). First, Donna Brazile (and 20 seconds spent watching her on one of the talking-head shows will show you why Gore lost) and now Mary Beth "don't worry, the swifties will blow over" Cahill. Why did we NOT get the character assassin squad out against John O'Neill and the rest of 'em to expose their lies, distortions, and conflicts of interest? WNY?

As long as we make nice-nice, we LOSE. Look how well the Neville Chamberlain schtick has been working for the Dems in Congress.

[mtnsnake]

14. I was simply ASTOUNDED that Kerry did none of this

It's absolutely mind-bongling that Kerry did none of the above mentioned commercials outlined in your post. All during his pathetic campaign, I kept asking myself what in the hell was he waiting for and why wasn't he dishing out some of his own medicince for the chimp. There was SO MUCH AMMO he could've had at his disposal with which to attack Bush on, and he never used it. What a waste!!!

I kept on thinking....well Kerry's saving it, and he's going to unload on him in the last couple weeks....but nothing ever happened.

WTF?!?!!

[Crunchy Frog]

15. I think he should at least have gone as dirty

as Pappy did with Dukakis. He should have just taken what was available. There was loads of stuff hanging around just begging to be made into negative campaign ads. Nothing too subtle; by and large the American people don't get subtlety.

Some ideas right off the top of my head:

1. They should have used footage from Bush's USS lincoln landing. The images of him in that ridiculous flight suit with the stuffed crotch were every bit as bad looking as the images of Dukakis riding that tank. They could have interspersed pictures of the Mission Accomplished banner with images of explosions and burning humvees in Iraq, flag draped coffins, and maybe of injured or maimed soldiers in military hospitals, along with statements such as "____ dead since Bush declared Mission Accomplished"

2. If the Repugs were going to exploit fear of terrorism, we should have too, but turned it around on them. An ad that interspersed images of someone whacking a hornets nest with a baseball bat, with images of scary looking anti-American demonstrations and violence in Iraq, with menacing images of Bin Laden still on the loose. They should have used footage of Bush talking about how he was going to hunt down Bin Laden and that was his number one priority, followed by footage of him talking about how he doesn't worry about Bin Laden, getting him isn't a priority for him.

3. They should have lifted, practically unchanged, that sequence from The Daily Show where Jon Stewart has Governor Bush debating foreign policy with pResident Bush. Maybe concluded it with some little remark about flip flopping.

4. They should absolutely have utilized The Pet Goat footage, with information about what was happening with the attacks, and what Bush knew at every stage. They should have had an expert sounding voice talking about how much every minute counts in that kind of emergency when it comes to saving lives. There should have been a real focus on the parylized, deer in the headlights appearance of the "Commander in Chief".

They shouldn't have made it personal. The overall message should have been "He's a really nice guy and would be great to have a beer with, he's just not competent to run this country during these complex and dangerous times."

I believe that when thinking about these things, we should ask ourselves "What would the Republicans do?". If an identical situation had existed with President Gore, what would the Republicans have done with it? We don't need to be nasty and dishonest the way they are, but we can accomplish the same thing by simply using the available facts and the available footage.

If we don't do this, it's like we're agreeing to use bows and arrows to fight against people armed with machine guns.

[Dr Fate]

25. Thats just old fashoined truth telling. We could not even do that.

Nothing "dirty" about stating facts...

The problem is simple- DEMS refused to simply tell the truth about Bush- and that is why I am so ashamed to be affiliated with the dishonest cowards who call themselves Democrats.

Kerry was a dishonest coward for not telling the truth about Bush. It's an awful thing to contemplate, but true.

[calimary]

34. What they should have done is HIRE YOU, Crunchy Frog.

You could have done some BRILLIANT campaign commercials. These ideas should ALL have been implemented. And about five hundred times EVERY day.

[zulchzulu]

18. Yes, negative ads win in the end...but a positive message is also good

Kerry's ads were pretty good and offered a positive message to Bush's utterly negative lies and distortions. People were so tired of the Bush ads by the end of the campaign that they didn't even watch them.

Here's a sampling of various Kerry ads (Quicktime):
http://www.kerrysupport.com/media/Kerry_ads.mov

I do wish he had gone more negative, but the 527s were doing that pretty well. Living in a swing state at the time, I saw all the ads on all sides and there was definitely a lot of slime oozing from my TV set.

[w4rma]

19. Really, I think the major problem is with the DLC wimps who attack

any Democrat who actually says something of interest. Al From and his minions are the reason the Democratic Party is having problems.

They are sneaky liars who blackmail other Dems into beating around bushes instead of telling the direct truth.

There are less of these DLCers now, tho.

[NAO]

20. These ads could still be run by DNC and/or 527s - Expose Bush

These ads could still be run by the DNC or by 527s.

Although it is too late for the 2004 election, and although I think they would have been more effective/damaging to Bush if run by a Democratic Presidential Candidate, there is still opportunity to drive Bush's approval ratings down and diminish the effectiveness of his second term.

One could always hope for a Nixon type situation where he would be forced to resign in shame and disgrace before finishing his second term. Yes, I would like to see that even if it meant "President Cheney".

BTW, how is that different than what we have now, except with that with an explicit instead of implicit Cheney Presidency we would not have the insult of the smirking chimp added to Cheney in charge?

Of course, the best case scenario is both Bush and Cheney implicated and the entire Republican party disgraced and discredited. Yep, that would be worth two years of President DeLay or whatever nut-job Repug is next in succession.

[Dr Fate]

26. Great idea, but DEMS are too scared/dishonest to follow your suggestion..

The DEMS will NEVER tell the simple, plain spoken truth about George Bush or Republicans- never, ever ever.

Telling the plain spoken, simple, honest truth about Republicans is too "radical" and "too much like Micheal Moore."

[KnowerOfLogic]

21. Kerry *couldn't* pull out all the stops, because he was too compromised

by his IWR vote and his and other top dems demonstrated willingness to march in lockstep with the other bush minions over the past few years. No campaign strategy could overcome that.

[NVMojo]

22. ad: In America, you can fight for your country but disagree with it too...

[the_bidenator]

23. To gain the support of most Americans...

Kerry would have had to kill a lion with his bare hands. Bush supporters would FLOCK to the left.

[Leilani]

24. I would have liked to see a commercial

with Kerry looking straight into the cameras, saying, " A famous Republican once asked, 'Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?'"

And then proceed to list all the things that had declined under Bush.

Also, a Flip-Flopper ad, with clips of Bush contradicting himself on really important issues.

Bush should have been criticized, been the object of humor & scorn, & generally undermined, in the majority of Kerry commercials. People should have been left doubting his capabilities, rather than the other way around.

[calimary]

32. BRAVO! I waited all campaign season to hear thos words -

"Are you better off than you were four years ago?" I waited and waited. I wrote to the DNC. I emailed everybody. This was solid gold. It was heaven-sent. It was utter perfection for the situation that jackass has created with his "stellar" economic policies. Perfection! And they completely ignored it. The results speak for themselves.

I tell ya, I am just truly at a loss. I'm in disbelief.

It almost makes me suspect that they really, deep-down, wanted to lose. Maybe to force bush to have to clean up (or maybe even nominally face) the mess he made. Maybe to get far enough away in time so that nobody in their correct mind could reasonably blame Clinton anymore without getting laughed clear out of town. I do not know. My husband has even speculated on this - that maybe the reason we're getting such a milquetoast response from the Kerry people about the vote challenges in Ohio is because he doesn't really want it. Perhaps the thinking is that bush should be left holding the bag. Unfortunately, I think he'll have too much time to do too much damage before people wise up. And if and when they do, it may be too late. It was a risk I sure didn't want to take.

But I tell ya, the way these people "fought," they really did not deserve to win. Especially when it was NO secret who and what they were up against, and how low the enemy is, and is willing to go. They weren't born yesterday about the likes of kkkarl rove. They knew what kind of shit they were facing. NO EXCUSE. NONE.

[Neshanic]

27. One where McCain tells off Bush about war record...oh wait....

[calimary]

33. And the Dems should have exploited the hell out of McCain, too.

REPEATED commercials reminding people of the smear job the bushies did on John McCain, who (somehow, incomprehensibly to me) is still widely admired. And followed by "...and you're okay with this? You're okay with rewarding the people who did this - with another four years? Isn't it about time that the bad guys stop winning?"

And YES. They should have been labeled "the bad guys." And it should have been pounded and pounded and pounded and pounded into the ground. That's how the message sinks in. They needed to be painted, portrayed, redefined, and repositioned as exactly what they are - "THE BAD GUYS." And we shouldn't have been afraid to say it.

The gloves should have come off. They didn't. And they were made of feathers and kleenex. And with no brass knuckles hidden ANYWHERE that they might have been useful. And that's how we went up against Brass Knuckles, Incorporated.

[cidliz2004]

30. What war did we win by changing the rules?

The American Revolution when we hid in the bushes and waited for the English Soldiers to march in to fight us and to take over? Wasn't it by changing tactics and fighting the enemy in a way that they were never fought the reason that we WON?


Until the Democrats REDEFINE the fight, we are fighting by the Repubs way, in the Repubs arena with the Repubs judges. Who ever thinks that we ever have a chance to win is just delusional.

Kerry let us all down by playing by their rules. He was the gentleman that they expected him to be. He didn't dirty his hands just like they expected him not to do. He conceded swiftly and with grace just like they counted on. So much for a good fight. He was weak when "selected" as the candidate and he showed his weakness when he put his tail between his legs and conceded in less than 24 hours. Sorry, but I want someone that has some PASSION for his beliefs and if Kerry is beyond that, then he NEVER should have run for office to begin with. It was a sham.

[PATRICK]

31. Kerry threatened to do some of this

plainly pre-empting Bush's predictable slime, but then very little effectively happened. Was "leveling with the American people" a similar exaggeration? I got that impression as well as limits in other areas when one would have hoped the war hero not the cautious bureaucrat would have recognized a battlefield- NOT the debating floor.

Kerry said things about getting tough, then it was as if some advisers worked him over into long periods of second thought and delay. To be fair the rapid response at times, early on was good and devastating, but suppressed relative to the uncritical play given to the smears. When the RW does not get inattention it shouts louder like any tantrum child. But Democrats? They go back to the discussion rooms and draw back. Politics is ruled by the bad seeds. There are no rewards for good behavior.

The fact that the facts are suppressed does not mean you "can't go there". On the contrary, I regard that a a license to imagine the worst.
Again, the campaign and the media is not the law court. It is one big bad jury packed with bigots.

[calimary]

35. Not only that, but neither Kerry nor anybody else among the Dems was

willing to use the word "lie." That's STILL happening. People are loathe to say bush lies, or lied. About ANYTHING. When the evidence is all over the place. He's just the biggest, stinkiest, suckiest liar who ever blighted OUR White House. And NOBODY wants to come out and say so. I do NOT understand it.