Hillary for President

[mourningdove92]

It will take another
Clinton to Clean Up
Another Bush Mess !

[MrSlayer]

1. President of what?

Certainly not the U.S.A., it will never happen nor should it be attempted.

[cali]

2. Hillary, who voted for the IWR, who's

scurrying to the right on immigration as fast as she can, who's supporting bushco on far too many issues- no thanks!

[Placebo]

3. Hillary '08

:) HILLARY ALL THE WAY!!! :)

[bigwillq]

4. I don't think so

I like the job she's doing in the senate but I don't think she could win the general election.

[Maat]

6. I agree, bigwillq.

Plus, and I don't want to get flamed, but she pretty much supports Ariel Sharon's moves - even if they essentially involve what I believe to be war crimes. U.S. Law does not permit you going in on a regular basis and demolishing people's homes (even if YOU believe you have a good reason). Just my humble opinion.

[msgadget]

51. I don't even like the job she's doing in the Senate.

Why's she so popular - is it from her suffering 8 years of hell?

[justinsb]

5. hmmm...

No thanks, I'm not a big fan and I don't think she could win anyway.

[Ken Burch]

7. Hillary the Death Penalty Queen?

No fuckin' way.

She ain't a Democrat, dude.

[Placebo]

8. No...she's not a Democrat!

:eyes:

[mtnsnake]

13. message deleted

on edit: responded to wrong person at first

[mtnsnake]

14. She's not a Democrat?? Sorry, but that's just not fair

Everytime I've heard her speak, she sure sounds Democratic to me. She might not be quite as far to the left as some, but she's a hell of a lot better than most of the other "potentials" we've got out there right now. I'm not saying she's my first choice or anything, but I'd feel real confident with her leading the way. Hillary's a brilliant lady, and she gives me the impression that she feels the words "second place" aren't in her vocabulary.

[Shanty Oilish]

27. more of a Dem

More of a Dem than many professed Dems, including her husband. People here who imply she's a sellout, I wonder if they feel the same about Mister Clinton. One could cite so many occasions when the beloved Big Dawg made decisions unpopular to Democrat hearts. And IIRC he didn't seem all that electable before he won.
Ah, but Mrs. Clinton is...different. :eyes:

[Ken Burch]

67. I always felt that Clinton wasn't a Democrat.

That's why I spent ten years in the Green Party. Why on Earth should any progressive have stayed a registered Democrat from 1993 to 2001? We were out in the cold, and the policies were indistinguishable from Republicanism.

Remember, this is a man who flew home in the midst of the '92 campaign to be present for the murder of a mentally retarded black man. This is the man who sent the Haitian refugees home to be tortured by the Tonton Macoute(an act that was of no political benefit to the Democratic Party whatsoever.)
This is the man who sold out gay people who were serving their country in the military, when the majority of the American people supported lifting the ban. This is the man who signed Rush Limbaugh's wet dream of a welfare bill. This is the man who let the Republicans completely control the political debate even in '93, when there was a Democratic Congress and he had a mandate for liberal policies.

And no one in the party other than Paul Wellstone stood up to him on anything.

I was never a defender of Slick. And Slick wasn't a Democratic president. We'd have lost nothing if he'd been impeached or even if he'd lost to Dole in 1996. No policies would have been changed by either event.

Get where I'm coming from yet?

[Miami Liberal]

25. Umm, I guess I didn't get the memo about Hillary changing parties.

:shrug:

[Shanty Oilish]

9. Suits me!

She's qualified. Very qualified. She's liberal. Smarter than---well, I won't name names. What more do people want? I don't understand the opposition here.

[Clark2008]

68. Someone who won't polarize half the country

(If you'll notice, it's those of us from the borderline "red" states who are against this move).

Besides, it won't matter who runs in 2008 - unless the voting problems are fixed, a Republican will always win.

[Annus Horribilis]

10. I Don't Think She Can Win

We need a governor from the south, not a north-eastern senator.

[MLE]

11. yeah!

I like Hillary. The Democratic party is really struggling to find some good leaders right now, and she's someone who's pretty well known. Plus she's a good campaigner, not as good as Bill, but still good. She'd definitely have a chance, but I suppose it would depend on who the GOP puts up.

[Pepperbelly]

12. What makes you think she wants the gig?

Her last experience near the White House wasn't exactly pleasant and for some reason, the righties hate her jest as vigorously as they hate Bill.

[peacetalksforall]

15. NOOO WAAAY!

I admired her and supported her for 12 years or so.

Then came her vote on Iraq and a few others.

No way!

[Lenape85]

16. NOOOOOOOOOO

All the right-wing talk show hosts will have a field day if that happens.

[MLE]

19. yeah, that true but...

they're all nuts and they seem to go off every time any Democrat does anything. I say let them make even bigger fools out of themselves.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

17. Another liberal senator from the Northeast with tons of baggage.......

A snowball’s chance in hell but so what. Let’s keep shooting ourselves in the foot until we don’t have a leg to stand on. Go for it, I'll take 2008 off and get rested up to try to defeat the repuke incumbent in 2012. I would like to see her win but I would hate to see how screwed up the idiot has left this country to allow something that unlikely to actually happen.

[Ken Burch]

18. Your suggestion as a nominee, then?

[Disturbed]

20. Hillary is the top choice...

of the Rethugs. They know that she would lose.

[Pepperbelly]

22. I reiterate ... why does ANYONE think that she wants the gig?

I have never heard her express interest in the job. She kids around some but I think that is mainly to jerk the righties arournd a little bit.

[tritsofme]

26. Mark Warner, Evan Bayh

Southern/Midwesterners with executive experience and the potential to appeal to a large chunk of centrist voters.

[moggie12]

38. Bayh's my guy

Okay, granted, I'm apparently more centrist than many on the DU, but take a good look at Bayh. He could easily beat Bill Frist or some other more extremist Republican right-winger (if Republicans run McCain or Hegel, we're probably dead meat no matter who we run).

[saracat]

72. Ick!

[iwantmycountryback]

40. Wes Clark, Mark Warner, Russ Feingold, John Edwards, Ed Rendell

Is that good enough? Hillary's only a decent senator at best for me and she would never win the presidency.

[tritsofme]

43. Feingold is a great man

but I don't know if it would be wise to run another senator so soon.

JFK was the last Senator to win an election, and there were precious few throughout our history.

From what I've heard, Rendell has some skeletons in his closet.

Who knows what Edwards is going to do out of public life for the next 2.5-3 years.

[Ken Burch]

64. Feingold tops my list, I could live with the others

for the ultimate regional/racial balance, an Edwards/Obama ticket would be cool.

[itzamirakul]

21. Hilary for President..

HELL FCUKING NO!

And she is my Senator, unfortunately. No guts!

Let her stand up with Conyers and then maybe I will reconsider otherwise, she can just go Cheney herself.

[fujiyama]

23. I don't think she'll be the nominee

She has some support among the bigwigs in the party, but ultimately I don't think she'll get it, or SHOULD get it.

She'd be a terrible choice and lacks both "electablity" and well, I'm not really all that impressed with her record thus far.

I don't see why people think she'd be a good candidate. Fortunately, I've seen a lot of opposition to the idea already.

[catbert836]

24. I don't support her. I don't think she could win.

It's weird, IMHO, that so many Republicans are scared to death that she'll win but the Dems don't want her to run.

[Dr Fate]

28. I only support people who tell the truth about Bush.

I've never once heard Hillary refer to Bush as a "liar", which he is, or "the most corrupt and dishonset President in the history of the US"-which he also is.

I dont need a candidate who needs to make excuses for their own behavior. I need honest, truthful, agressive & BLUNT Democrats. Hillary is not one of them.

[lojasmo]

29. She'll never get my vote, nor my work, nor my endorsement Here's why...

Yea Patriot act

Yea IWR

Yea NCLB

[Pepperbelly]

30. Since you're in Minnesota, she probably doesn't give a shit.

It isn't you she has to please to win elections in New York.

:D

[lojasmo]

31. We're talking about a national election, pepperbelly....

Minnesota is important in that case. hillary wouldn't carry Minnesota.

[Pepperbelly]

33. What I don't understand is why this even comes up as a thread.

So perhaps it isn't addressed to you at all. But I have not heard a single word from her or anyone associated with her that reflects the slightest interest in running for Prez. I don't mean in that coy way that pols have. Just an absence of anything that would lead me to believe that it is something that she intends to do or even wants to do.

It does keep the righties heads spinning and that is good in and of itself. Between you and me, that is pretty damned close to enough to make me support her if she in fact did want to run. Anyone that drives those deranged bastards so insane has good to be primarily good.

[lojasmo]

35. It's the right/media pundits who keep mentioning a Clinton run.....

I don't know why any reasonable democrat, let alone a progressive might want her to run....

Perhaps if only to cement the failure of the DLC to win a national election...

[Pepperbelly]

48. they do love to bash her ...

maybe even more than some of the people who populate this corner of the internets.

[lojasmo]

49. And yet they promote her....

Do I sense ambilalance?

[IStriker]

32. And she won't get mine. Do you think she cares about PA?

For the same reasons lojasmo gave and more. I don't want anymore DLC crooks. The Clintons don't even know anybody who is honest! The list of their crooked friends is endless and keeps growing. Add Franklin Raines to that mile long list.

[Lizzie Borden]

34. No.

Too much baggage. She's unelectable. Besides, FEINGOLD.

[iwantmycountryback]

36. Unless you want to lose

Nope. The only senator I'd like to see run is the one in my sig.

[MLE]

58. Feingold???

I really like Feingold. I'm happy to have have representing my state. But I'm not sure how he'd do as a presidential candidate.

[robbedvoter]

37. Nope.

[Zynx]

39. Look me in the face and tell me she would carry Ohio.

Hell, look me in the face and tell me she would carry Wisconsin.

[moggie12]

41. She'd be lucky to get 15% of the popular vote

When Hillary ran for the Senate in '00 she got approx. 55% of the vote whereas Al Gore won NY with 70% or so. For purposes of comparison, Chuck Schumer just got reelected with 71% whereas Kerry polled 58% in NY. And don't forget, Hillary was running against a real weenie who was a last-minute stand-in for Rudy Guiliani. Nothing she's done since being elected has improved her electability a whit. If she can barely win in NY, one of the Bluest of the Blue States, she's toast elsewhere.

[Bouncy Ball]

42. I'm sorry

but she's far too right leaning moderate for me.

If she were on the Dem ticket, of course I would cast my vote for her (but that's looking shakier and shakier the more Dems look like they are just letting the repukes take over) but I would prefer not.

Nothing personal against her, she just is too much of a conservative Dem.

Also I don't want ANYONE who voted for the IWR.

[saracat]

73. Me too! Bouncey Ball!

[Yupster]

44. If she runs, the

nomination will be hers with little effort.

[Redneck Socialist]

45. No thanks. n/t

[seabeyond]

46. hillary has back bush more

even during the election she and bill were backing bush.

no thank you

[zulchzulu]

47. Is she going to run as a Republican?

Her latest votes put her in the moderate Repug category. Other than that, she would make a great Secretary of Health/Human Services with the newly elected Kerry administration in 2008.

[msgadget]

52. Why that position

when she won't even consider every alternative to our current healthcare system?

[Ken Burch]

71. And is singlehandedly responsible for KILLING any hope

of universal health care by her refusal to reach out to or listen to progressives in 2003.

She conceded control of the debate to the Republicans without a fight.

Universal health care was the only possible victory that would have justified accepting all the retrograde positions Billary took. After that, it was just compromise for compromise sake, and surrender for surrender's sake.

[OneBlueSky]

50. oh, God NO! . . . she's DLC all the way . . . Republican lite, and . . .

thoroughly in the back pocket of the banking and credit card industries . . . she was fully supportive of the effort to amend bankruptcy laws to further tighten the screws on individuals while dramatically benefiting creditors . . . if she's the nominee, I'm voting for a third party . . .

[New Earth]

53. as shallow as it sounds

i don't think i could listen to her voice more than i have to.

[AntiCoup2K4]

54. I'll vote for Hillary when Hell gets an NHL franchise

And just because Satan's kid plays for Buffalo don't mean it's gonna happen.

[Ed C. Finley]

55. As someone who disliked clinton

I think that Hillary would make a great candidate, especially if she hammered the repubs on the job loss and environmental impact of unlimited immigration. A lot of repubs are pulling their hair out over this issue tha bush and rove are snubbing them on.

There is one more strategic reason for hillary in 08. She will get the womens vote, not just democrat women, but republican women too. The repub women will vote for her just so they can tell their daughters they voted for the first female president and so helped make history. They will justify their vote by telling themselves they can vote against her in 2012.

As for me (middle aged white male) if she gets behind the cut immigration movement, I'll vote for her even if I disagree with her on everything else. At 300 million people this country is full enough.

So far she is making good progress.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

61. Probably not serious about the immigration issue

I do honestly think that we need a measure of immigration reform here in the United States, and a frank discussion of the issue. But I doubt that Hillary's very serious about it-- the details of her plan show that there's less than meets the eye. Much of it appears to be the same sort of guest worker, partial amnesty proposals that Bush has already been pushing. And there's not much in there about the main concern-- the number (1-1.5 million) of legal immigrants who are allowed in each year even if they don't have marketable skills. Why, furthermore, has Hillary not taken any specific steps in Congress to tackle this issue, if it's one of her priorities? Again, I doubt if there's much to back up what she's saying on this issue, which is rather paltry at that. Al Gore has undertaken a more serious examination of immigration and its environmental impact; he may be more inclined to take a sober, well-contemplated, sensible position on this.

[Gyre]

56. You're high.

But entitled to your vision. God save us from it's fruition.

Gyre

[OnionPatch]

57. No, no, and no no no

and no again.
Edited to add a few more "nos"
No no no no no

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

59. Skeptical esp b/c of Iraq War Resolution

I used to be an unabashed Hillary Clinton booster until the Fiasco of 2002, aka Hillary's vote and actions with regard to the Iraq War resolution. It wasn't just that Hillary voted for the war authorization (and we all knew where that was leading); I know politicians will fudge a bit here and there and I can tolerate some of that. What really rankled me was the way that Hillary just obsequiously tried to out-neocon the neocons on Reasons Why We've Gotta Bomb The Stuffings Out of Iraq. All this drivel about how Saddam was dangerous, a massive threat to us and allies (obviously false from the get-go), how Iraq was the central battle in the war on terrorism, how (even as Osama was laughing at us in his cave) Saddam was our most dangerous foe, i.e. similar claptrap as the lunatic ravings Dubya used to hoodwink the American public into going to war. Hillary's words of support were repeated ad nauseum (and nauseatingly) by the Repugs and talk radio to support Bush's cause, and thus her seemingly vocal support became a major contributor to the swing in public opinion that favored an invasion of Iraq.

Remember that at that point in 2002, the US public was still very uncertain about the value of invading Iraq, and Congress was leery with even many Republicans shying away. It was those voices from those seemingly "neutral" or "in the opposition"-- Tony Blair and Hillary Clinton being prominent examples-- that got the madness of that war resolution passed. Hillary could have handled that much more tactfully and sensibly. Even if she'd still voted for the resolution, I'd have respected her more if she'd posed some of the tough questions that needed to be asked at that crucial point, expressed some reluctance, clarified some of the confusions-- debunking the commonly-held myth that Iraqis were among the 9/11 hijackers for example-- and provided a well-reasoned, sensible stance. Instead, she just succumbed hook, line, and sinker to the neocon GOP line-- an utter failure of leadership IMHO.

Compounding the aggravation for me is that Hillary's move was not only ethically stupid, but politically bumbling as well. As a friend of mine noted, Hillary had nothing to gain from that vote (and her statements of support) since she wasn't running for office in 2004. A vote in favor of the Iraq War (though not those fulsome statements) would have been at least acceptable IMHO if she'd been running in 2004, since voters may still have been caught up in the heat of the moment and confusions about Iraq. But Hillary wasn't running again for any office until 2006, at which point the unvarnished, ugly truth about Iraq (which we all could easily anticipate from the get-go) will have emerged in all its awful manifestations, and for which a "no" vote on the war resolution would be a political advantage. The vociferous hawks supporting war with Iraq wouldn't vote for Hillary anyway, while those unsure about Iraq will be turned away from her because of her support for the war when the resolution was being decided. A Democrat in 2008 has the best chance of being elected if he/she at least raised questions from the get-go about Iraq, since he/she will be seen as having been prescient about the looming disaster. But the disaster of Iraq will be pinned on Hillary as much as Bush herself because of her fervent words of support for it.

I haven't totally rejected Hillary yet, but I am very skeptical, not only of her dedication to Democratic principles (and the good of the country in general) but of her political acumen itself. Being a good politician is a bit like being a good magician-- you have to be subtle about it and ensure that your thinking and actions behind the scenes aren't too obvious to the people watching. And with Hillary, it all just seems forced-- she seems to want the Presidency so much that she's making it blindingly obvious to everybody that she's a politician doing a politician's pandering in a bid to appeal to the gallery. I think she's smart, but she just doesn't seem to fit the part very well, nor does she exhibit Bill's charm, period-- she'll have to prove herself as intellectually and ethically sound in her judgments to win my support. I'm in a "wait-and-see" posture right now, like many other Democrats, and I want to see that she's able to subsume her ambitions for the good of the party and our principles, not use the party as a tool to further her ambition. I'm not yet convinced. I'm also nervous about 2006, frankly. Though she'll probably win reelection as Senator of New York, that's hardly a foregone conclusion, and if the GOP puts Rudy against her (or, even worse, Colin Powell), there'll be a bruising general election for senator that will cause severe damage to both candidates, perhaps wiping them both out for Presidential contention in 2008 and even thereafter as well. The election in '08 is just too important to nominate anybody based on superficial name recognition, which wears off quickly and is of little advantage a couple months into primary season-- we need to evaluate all the potential candidates in '08 with a cold, unsparing scrutiny about dedication to principles and quality as a candidate.

P.S. I should also note that the Democratic Party is blessed with many potential women Presidential candidates who might, in fact, be more capable of winning than Hillary-- less capable of inciting and uniting the opposition, yet still reliable and from a western, swing, or generally Red State. Blanche Lincoln, Janet Napolitano, Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, even Nancy Pelosi (with whose speeches I've become very impressed)-- I think they'd all make pretty good candidates. Moreover, the GOP is expecting Hillary and almost counting on her nomination to fill their campaign coffers; somebody like Napolitano or Lincoln would throw them a curve. I still think that, for now, Democrats like Evan Bayh and Al Gore-- with solid records and (esp. in Al's case) a crucial prescience on Iraq-- may be our best horses for 2008. But I still believe that Lincoln, Napolitano, and the others deserve serious consideration at the top of the ticket or as running mates. We need to increase their name recognition and sound them out as potential candidates.

[amjucsc]

60. We're going to need a southerner or a midwesterner...

And Chicago won't cut it.

Someone who can make us competitive in states like AZ, MO and WV. If we don't broaden the states in which we're competitive the electoral map won't get any better.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. OK by me. How about Cynthia McKinney or John Lewis?

Both southerners.

[amjucsc]

66. Hate to say it, but...

I'm still not sure the country is ready for a black President. I'd like to be wrong...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. That would be the final DLC nail in the coffin.

Maybe she could get Lieberman to run as VP to supply the extra momentum to the graveyard.

[cornfedyank]

65. if this cuntry was not ready to hear J.K.

hill does not stand a chance. How does one use logic against us first wannabee fools?

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts....i believe that was said by danial patrick moynihan, a man who wrote his own speechs.

on edit: i hope for sanity before '08.

[cornfedyank]

70. maybe in a threeway race. n/t

[sendero]

69. If we nominate Hillary...

... the Democratic party really will be over, for a very long time.

Let's forget her politics (she's no liberal IMHO), let's imagine how her nomination will motivate the winger base without doing much for ours.

Hillary would be a disaster, and I'm hoping people wake up. The only reason I could see for wanting her is to poke the eyes of the right, but more than likely they'd win that battle handily.

[leesa]

74. Not interested. Besides, if we don't fix the GOP-owned elections

it won't matter one bit who we run...ever.

[mstrsplinter326]

75. Please be serious. Absolutely Not.

[formernaderite]

76. uhhh...no thanks...

since there won't be an ABB vote, I'll feel perfectly comfortable voting Green.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

77. No

She has shown a distinct lack of spine in Congress.

Besides, first things first. Right now it feels as if people are desperately throwing out names of politicians they've heard of. It really does sound desperate, but not tactically smart.

Let's get more Dems into the House and Senate in 2006, and THEN start thinking about 2008.

The ideal candidate for 2008 may be someone who isn't even on the radar yet.

[Selwynn]

78. If hilary is the nominee, I won't be voting democrat.

[HughBeaumont]

79. A gigantic HELL NO on that one.

We would lose Ah-High Ah, Flah-duh and Wis-Kan-sen instantly. Wouldn't convert ONE red state. Pro-corporate, Pro-job-outsourcing, polarizing, too much baggage. The Reich-wing pundits and the lesser-educated and over-idealistic Dems are the ones who are pushing her the most. Don't fall for it. Hillary is BAD news for a candidate.

[kerrygoddess]

80. The Repub slander machine will make it very ugly for Hillary

Not to mention this country is simply not ready to put a woman in the WH. I hate to say this, because I believe women need their day here. But, given the backpeddling we are doing because of the Fundies, it won't happen.