Who are "African-Americans" and why bother with it now?

[question everything]

I think that intuitively we think of African-Americans as descendants of those who were forced on these shores. Who were not part of any wave (or trickle) of immigration, hoping to build a new life here. We also think of them as black. And we know that even after emancipations they have suffered through bigotry and discrimination, and still, as a group, are at a lower economic level than other groups.

Because, of course, there are many who came here from Africa on their own free will. Arabs from North Africa and Whites, like Teresa Hinze Kerry and actor Charlize Theron.

Here, in Minnesota, there are many people from Somalia. They entered here as refugees, they are black and, I am sure, encounter instances of hatred and bigotry. Yet, I would think that as a group they may not necessarily align themselves with the goals and aspirations of the established African-Americans, the descendant of slaves.

And then we have leaders like Colin Powell and Barack Obama. Two individuals that are looked at as great African-American role models. Are they?

Certainly Barack Obama was elected by many African-Americans who admire him and consider him as a great Representative of the African-American community, who would represent the aspirations and needs and goals and hopes of his community. Yet he is not a descendant of slaves, and, I think that at some level he wishes to not be viewed as an "African-American" senator, but simply as a Senator from Illinois. Indeed, there was one hint about this in the Newsweek cover story about him from two weeks ago.

Why is this important now? (And I hope that by now I am not causing anyone to fume and to be agitated)

Because all of us were enthralled by Obama's wonderful speech at the Democratic convention. Many of us are looking at him as the hope for the future - if not for 2008 than for 2012 or 2016. If not a President than a leader in another capacity. And I think that it will be important for us to understand that he may not wish to present himself as an African-American, but simply as an American. And that it will be important for us not to be disappointed by such an attitude, or, worse, for the real African-Americans among us (I am white) not to feel betrayed.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[question everything]

2. That was not my intention

Of course there are problems that cannot be removed by a magic wand, or even by an act of Congress. I just don't think that "grouping" all people with black skin is a way to do this, either.

But I may be wrong and am hoping for more constructive criticism than just labels. Can you do better? Please?

[goclark]

3. Have you read his book?

I believe it is on the best seller list.

As an African American I want Sen. Obama to stand up for justice. He has led a multicultural life and he knows the urban sorrows. We hope that he helps to solve issues such as AIDS and poverty.

I have the same expectation for every other Senator or congressperson on January 6th and beyond.

[question everything]

4. Thank you. I agree with you

that we face important issues common to all Americans, yes, including the ones who voted for Bush.

I will look for his book.

[RandomKoolzip]

5. One of his parents is Kenyan, correct?

Then he really IS African-American.

[Kahuna]

15. Riiiight!

:thumbsup:

[question everything]

50. Please read my post again

I wondered whether we have been using this term for the people whose ancestors did not come to these shores of their own free will, who are descendants of slaves and who have to overcome great discrimination and bigotry on personal and economical levels.

His father freely came over to study in the University of Hawaii, later left for Harvard and then back to Kenya.

[SemperEadem]

56. No, he's Kenyan-American

Africa is a continent. He knew the country of his origin. African Americans don't. Records on our births, deaths and marriages weren't kept--just bills of sales, and they were negligently kept at best.

[slay]

6. It's the message that matters, not the color of one's skin

And Obama has a powerful, positive, intelligent message. :)

[question everything]

51. Agree. And I hope that "professional" politicians

and community leaders won't try to shackle him. And this was a comment that he himself made to the Congressional Black Caucus.

[quiet.american]

7. "Blacks" vs. "African-Americans"

This topic reminds me of how these terms changed in the media once Bush hit office in 2000.

Almost overnight, mainstream media went from taking pains to refer to "African-Americans" and simply started using "blacks," or "the blacks."

Quite frankly, I was never particularly enamored of "African-Americans" or any other Hyphen-Americans -- I prefer plain old "Americans" in the spirit of unity within diversity -- but the way the media seemingly gleefully abandoned it immediately after President Clinton left office has been disquieting.

[cattleman22]

36. The term seems innacurate.

When I hear the word african American, I think of both Arabs and blacks. I have heard the term sub-saharan African American, but that seems like too much.

[angee_is_mad]

8. Listen CARefully

First point, Barack proudly identify himself as African American just like Halle Berry, Jasmine Guy and many other biracial people in this country. Barack is African American in the truest sense. His father was African and his mother was American, so there!

I am a blk woman who lives in the south. There are a lot of southerners(whites) who do not like that word. Their explanation is that they do not believe in hyphens, because everyone is American. I ask these same people do they have a problem with Indians being called Native American? So why is there such a problem with blks referring themselves as African Americans?

AS a blk woman I do not know what country my ancestors came from unlike a lot of whites in this country. Hell, Native Americans know their tribe. I might not know what country my forefathers came from, but when I like in the mirror I sure as hell know what continent.

Finally, I refer to myself as black, but I definitely have no problem being called African American.

African American is the word that blk Americans came up with to identify themselves. The use of the word could be the first time blks used a word to identify themselves and not have the white establishment choose a label for them. Isn't it ironic that when blks choose their own labels there are questions about it?

Where is the outcry, when Indians refer to themselves as Native American?

Finally, you sound like alan keyes. He tried to use the same argument when he was running against Obama.

[Kahuna]

12. Comparing, "Native Americans" and "African Americans" is like

comparing apples to oranges. Native Americans are correctly identified as being the indigenous Americans. They are. Black Americans are not immigrants from Africa. African immigrants are, "African-Americans." Many of us (both American born and immigrants) are mixed blood. We could just as well call ourselves, Native Americans, or white for that matter, because we are a part of all of those races. In fact, black Americans are a race that is uniquely contrived in this country. Being that we are neither, all African, Native American or white.

As I recall it, American blacks were satisfied with being referred to as black. Then in the 80s, Jessie Jackson, Louis Farrakhan and some other people, made a big pronouncement about what blacks should be called instead of "black." As I recall, one of the options was, Bilalian, (FCOL). So, it was a something that was contrived to really bring American blacks and black immigrants together to form a stronger political coalition.

[angee_is_mad]

19. So, you do not

like being identified as African American?

[Kahuna]

23. Actually, I don't. I'm not African. I'm black....

But, I'm not African. My ancestors, black, white and African go back several generations in this country. Why would I want to be called a "nationality" that I am not? I'm an American whose race is black.

[ecstatic]

30. It's ironic that you're uncomfortable with the term African American

because you're not from Africa, yet when is the last time you've seen a "black" person who was actually "black" in color? LOL. None of these terms are going to be 100% descriptive. That's just the way it is! Really, I'm OK with whatever the label is now and/or becomes.

[Forkboy]

44. That reminds me of my old neighbor

A black woman in her 60's.She hated the term African American.She used to always yell,"I'm from Europe dammit!". :)

[Quetzal]

34. Americans had a debate over the term hyphenated Americans in the 1920s

I am a blk woman who lives in the south. There are a lot of southerners(whites) who do not like that word. Their explanation is that they do not believe in hyphens, because everyone is American. I ask these same people do they have a problem with Indians being called Native American? So why is there such a problem with blks referring themselves as African Americans?

Woordrow Wilson criticized Americans that kept ethnic and cultural ties with their native homelands. These "Hypenated-Americans" should not be tolerated in American society he felt.

Woodrow Wilson saw the eruption of war in Europe as yet another threat to the national unity he so cherished. As the conflict increasingly polarized American public opinion, he declared, "A new sort of division of feeling has sprung up amongst us." He warned the public that hyphenated Americans had bred a disloyalty that "must be absolutely crushed." To counter such disloyalty, he discouraged immigrants from clustering in ethnic enclaves. "I am always sorry," he said, "to see groups derived from particular nationalities separate themselves into little communities of their own. That is importing their own communities into America and not contributing themselves to be Americans." He insisted, furthermore, that "no man is a true American who does not realize that all the objects of our national life are common objects." National unity therefore depended on the complete assimilation of hyphenated Americans. "We must all be the same kind of Americans in order that we may do the same kind of American things."(31)

At the heart of Wilson's concern lay his belief that internal disunity threatened to undermine America's democratic mission. Forging unity out of diversity struck him as the fundamental challenge to America. America's "problem is largely a problem of union all the time--a problem of compounding out of many elements a single triumphant force." Only a united America could assume its rightful place as world leader. "Let us first heal our own divisions. Let us first see that we are a united and irresistible nation, and then let us put all that force at the service of humanity." All forms of diversity, he contended, must give way to a homogeneity of spirit: "Out of a heterogeneous nation we have got to make a unit in which no slightest line of division is visible beyond our borders."(32)

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2004/is_n3_v43/ai_20378614/pg_5

However, the revolutionary educator John Dewey did not shy away from the debate regarding hyphenated Americans and in fact reframed it.

Such terms as Irish-American or Hebrew-American or German-Americans are false terms, because they seem to assume something which is already in existence called America, to which the other factors may be hitched on. The fact is, the genuine American, the typical American, is himself a hyphenated character. It does not mean that he is part American and that some foreign ingredient is added. It means that...he is international and interracial in his make-up. He is not American plus Pole or German. But the American is himself Pole-German- English-French- Spanish-Italian-Greek-I rish-Scandinavian- Bohemian-Jew—and so on. The point is to see to it that the hyphen connects instead of separates. And this means at least that our public schools shall teach each factor to respect every other, and shall take pains to enlighten us all as to the great past contributions of every strain in our composite make-up.5

http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/Educational-Theory/Contents/43_4_Putnam.asp

It is sad, however, that he didn't include African-Americans (or Blacks - whichever one you prefer) into his educational construct. Question to those in this thread - when did the term "African-American" become a part of the American dialogue? Was it a term popularized by those involved in the Marcus Garvey "Back to Africa" movement? Did W.E.B. DuBois use the term African-American? If not, would he do so today?

[question everything]

52. Interesting history lesson

And I think that this was the reason why the 2000 census had a multi-race option. One notices that when one lives in states with large population of immigrants like California or New York. There are so many whites who marry people from Asia, many black who marry Hispanics, and native Americans (well they were called Indians by mistake, really) who marry blacks so to what race do they children belong?

I think that the term "African-American" was coined in the 60s. These were the years when the desire for a melting pot was replaced with the desire for promoting the identity of the different ethnic groups, I think it came when the civil rights movement abandoned the nonviolence approach of Dr. King and was replaced with a more demanding one of the Black Panther and Black Muslims.

[Slickriddles]

54. Wilson is not the best authority on questions of race

He love the movie "Birth of a Nation" which cast the Ku Klux Klan in a heroic light. He was pretty much a white supremacist. See the book "Lies my Teacher Told me" for more details. He was specifically against Irish-Americans and German-Americans because they wern't crazy about going into WWI on England's side. You are on better ground with Dewey.

[cattleman22]

37. RE:"Isn't it ironic that when blks choose their own labels there are...

questions about it?"



The question for me is why choose the term African American when it is ambiguous as many Arabs are also African Americans.

[rehema]

9. Colin Powell is NO Role Model

Several years ago he said Blacks born in America were lazy.

[Undercover Owl]

13. Colin Powell is black?

Colin Powell is more white than black, dontcha think?

[Kahuna]

17. Colin Powell is mixed. His parents are West Indian...

So, he could be mix of African, European, Asian and Native American.

[angee_is_mad]

22. As most African Americans

but I believe you said that in an earlier post. I also should mention I have a few African friends- Ivory Coast, Nigeria, and there are mixed blacks over there also.
In this world there are probably more mixed blacks than pure blacks.

[Kahuna]

31. I would agree that especially in America..

you would be hard pressed to find an American Born black (going back a few generations) who is pure African. The MAIN reason why I think it is not correct to call us, African Americans. To me, Africans who live in the USA, are African-Americans. That's the way it used to be anyway.

[American liberal]

49. that's part of my point, too

White people make up only something like 12% of the world's population. We're all going to be brown eventually.

What cracks me up is like on an Oprah show a while ago, she brought on a white family with racial issues, if I remember correctly, and brought on a small group of black people who were RELATED to the other guests! Cracked me up!

Lucy (the prehistoric woman from 3 million years ago) was black. In fact, scientists now believe that the whole of human life started on "The Dark Continent." Therefore, we're all black, if you really want to be nitpicky about it. :)

But because I'm sick of labels and being a "credit to the race," I'm with Obama--I hope he's the best damn Senator we've ever had from Illinois, not the 5th black Senator in the history of the United States. I love him because of his position and what he stands for, not that his dad was Nigerian. I just wish that the rest of society could be as enlightened as me and frenchie cat. :)

Peace,
AL

[Kahuna]

10. You are correct. "African_American" used to be a nationality. Not

a race. Jesse Jackson and his cronies dreamed up "African-American" as a race so that American born blacks and black immigrants would be able to have a larger black coalition, IIRC. Anyway, by doing so, the stronger coalition is a reality in my neck of the woods. However, technically, "African-American" is a nationality which would denote an immigrant from Africa. And don't let any one call you a racist for saying so.

[ecstatic]

16. Why African American and not... say... Nigerian or Kenyan American

for those who are actually from Africa?

[Kahuna]

18. People who are really from Africa do prefer being called by their

nationallity. A Nigerian would moreso consider himself, Nigerian than African. The same way we consider ourselves as "Americans" instead of North Americans.

[question everything]

53. Thank you for your kind words n/t

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

14. Are you scared we will taint Obama's legacy by viewing him as

African American?

I'll leave that part alone for now.... But referring to a person simply as "black" may not provide all the information necessary. Blacks come from all over the world. I'm black, and American born, but my mother, who is also black, is from South America. African American is a *broad* term that describes my ancestors unique experiences in this country. A person who moves to this country directly from Africa should probably hyphen their ethnicity with the specific country name that they come from. Now this probably won't be convenient for those who would like to box everything and everyone into a neat little package, but oh well.

[Kahuna]

21. We're supposed to be talking about race. Not nationality...

That's why it's incorrect to call American born blacks, "African American." African American is a nationality. Not a race.

[ecstatic]

25. not necessarily

Africa is not a nation...it's a continent and it can be used to describe someone's race... Can't it (i.e., I'm of African ancestry)? I'd much rather use that label than some of the other, more scientific names I've seen thrown around.

[Kahuna]

28. You know what. You're right. And that ,makes it doubly ridiculous..

for American blacks to call themselves AA. If you feel comfortable calling yourself, AA, more power to you. I do not. Because it would be a big lie. I'm American, I'm mixed race like most American born blacks. I love all of me. I embrace all of my heritage. Not just one part. By calling myself, AA that is exactly what I would be doing. Denying part of myself.

[karlrschneider]

20. There is no such thing as an "African American"

any more than there is a "European American" or an "Asian American."
These are all horse-shit adjectives invented to appease or comfort some segment of the populace and have no real meaning.

And to expand the discussion, it should be noted that there's really no such thing as even a "native American" because we simply do not know PRECISELY who inhabited what is now North America several thousand years ago. All this discussion is just bullshit, really. My ancestors came from Germany (I only know about 4 generations of ancestors) and it would never occur to me to refer to myself as a "German-American".

My point is this: GET OVER IT! You aren't responsible for your ancestors, whoever the hell they were! Not ONE GODDAMN human on the planet bears any responsibility for what your great-great-grandparents may or may have not done. They are dead forever and nothing you can do or say can ameliorate whatever sins they may have committed.

And in 500 (or more probably 100) years, it's unlikely that whatever is left of the hominid species will have even heard of you or me, let alone 'care' about us. IMO, the sooner "we" become extinct, the better.
And here's the obligatory :grr:

[angee_is_mad]

24. dang!!!!!

you definitely got on your soapbox. Thanks for educating the blacks on here!

[Kahuna]

26. He was trying to educate everybody. And he has a point.

nt

[angee_is_mad]

32. Like you

I identify myself as black, but I have not problem with anyone referring to themselves as African American and I have no problem if someone refer to me as African American.
I have more pressing issues to be concerned about than debating the pros and cons of a word that has no negative connotations to it.
I just know what you better NOT call me!

[ecstatic]

27. if all labels were removed, how would we keep up with racial disparities

resulting from racism? Institutional racism would soar. For now, if 50% of black males are unemployed in this country, I'd like to know about it.

[Kahuna]

29. Huh? You've brought up totally new topic...

The topic here isn't not using race as an identifier. It's whether African American is the most ideal way to identify black Americans.I

I actually liked "afro-American" which proceeded, AA. Afro-American is acknowledging my African roots without denying my American heritage. It was like saying, I'm half and half. That was cool. Black is cool with me as a race.

[Blue_Tires]

39. wow

time to start calling myself 'black' again if it makes others lash out like that...lol (settle down, karl :D)

[H2O Man]

58. Actually

while you may not know "precisely" who inhabited North America thousands of years ago, most of the world does. And "Native Americans" certainly do.

[FrenchieCat]

33. I have a slight problem with all of this, and yet.....

no real problem with any of it.

I have mixed feelings about this subject....quite literally. Personally, Black was just fine by me, and I was never quite sure at what exact point we traded Black for African-American. There was always something about African-American that made it a hard fit as a label for me for good reasons.......because although I call myself Black, I was not born in America to Americans.....

I was born to a Black man from Martinique and a White Frenchwoman. Therefore, I should be called a French-African. But the problem is that there is no such label used in France. There are so many Western, Eastern, and Northern Africans, and Carribean Islanders in France, until they just call themselves by the name of their specific country of origin. Algerians are just that.....Moroccans are just that.....Nigerians are just that, and on and on.

Black people originated from Africa, so the "African" part is not a real issue for me....cause Martinique was definitely a "stop-over" during the slave trade....so my Papa, although is of some mixed heritage can truly trace roots back to Africa.

My Mom, born in Nancy, France....in the Alsace-Lorraine region...is really of German descent--her maiden name is Ruesz (that's the part of France that kinda of went back and forth between France and Germany during the World Wars).

When I look back though....I always enjoyed the Black pride that emerged from those liberating anthems of the late 60's and early 70's: Black is beautiful; say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud; Black Panthers and their Black Power were not to be fucked with (and I immigrated directly from Paris up close and personal to that scene in Berkeley/Oakland in the early 70's).... Black Muslims were respected as leading an alternative lifestyle and religion as opposed to how they are now portrayed (Muslims back in the days were always the extra clean cut ones and were very enterprising and independent). the Black Civil Right movement....and the great Black leaders like MLK jr., Malcom X and Andrew Young who were very strong Black men and positive role models. Those Black leaders totally energized the Black communities with their truth-telling to White America.

However, I think that at some point, Black people may have just wanted to get away from the adjective that describes most Black nouns as negative in the English language ,e.g., the Black Hats vs. the White Hats....a Black day...Black Tuesday.....Black mood, etc., etc....vs. The always "good" "White" stuff.

What happened then is a Motherland Movement that may have gone a bit more to the extreme than I would have chosen. That's when we started seeing a lot of Black children being named African names (which later morphed into made-up names; some I will say are quite beautiful and distinct, while others are true guessing games when it comes time to spelling them).....African Garb became quite the rage, and the "natural" hairstyles, braids and "dreads" became symbols of black hair beauty, freedom and pride.

I find it hard to call myself an African-American and easy calling myself Black. For clarity, I consider my race to be Black and my nationality to be French.

But in the end, it's neither here nor there. Whatever helps us Black folks/African-Americans as a group lighten the baggage that has been placed on our shoulders is just fine with me.

One thing I know for sure.... I don't want to be categorized as Biracial. I believe that categorization to be just an illusion to help the White man divide and conquer. It actually harkens back to the slave days.....when there were the Creoles, the mulattoes, the Quadroons, the Octoroons, etc... Labels which sounded very exotic and mysterious .....but in the end, if you asked any of those groups for their birth certificates, it said the exact same thing on all of them--Negro.

[cattleman22]

40. Interesting point about biracial.

"One thing I know for sure.... I don't want to be categorized as Biracial. I believe that categorization to be just an illusion to help the White man divide and conquer. It actually harkens back to the slave days.....when there were the Creoles, the mulattoes, the Quadroons, the Octoroons, etc... Labels which sounded very exotic and mysterious .....but in the end, if you asked any of those groups for their birth certificates, it said the exact same thing on all of them--Negro."



I did not think of it that way. Would you feel the same way if one of your parents was black and one of you parents was another race but not white?

Do you only identify with you father's race?

[FrenchieCat]

41. I can't really speak for others of mixed race.....

Mixed with Black or otherwise. I happen to take pride of my Blackness....but not everyone does.

I will also say that the reality of a Western society that has legislated, and to some degree still upholds the "one drop" rule may have had an effect on my identity choice. Of course, I may have an unfair advantage that allows me to have both a distinct nationality (therefore claiming my "White heritage") while also maintaining a racial identity.

But we cannot deny that Black people have consistently been treated as being the "lowest" on the todum pole of the racial stick...so for some, anything "but" Black is actually an excuse that assists them in raising themselves on that pole....but in reality, it only helps to confirm and prolong the stigma of self hate that has been encouraged by this White society....and whom more than we would want to guess have bought into.

When I think of other mixed possibilities such as Eurasians and Whitespanics; because the minority groups for which they may be mixed with are not seen in quite in the same light as Black people in this western world, I don't think that they carry quite the same baggage of self hatred (although I am sure that some do).

What I have just stated may not make sense to some.....but the pragmatic truth isn't necessarily always based on reasonability or logic. That is why race is oftentimes a difficult issue to confront and discuss....

[cattleman22]

42. Thank you for your open discussion on this topic

One of my friends went to a high school in which she was teased for acting "white" because she studied hard and earned good grades. She is a fairly light skinned, black person. I wonder if this attitude of denying any whiteness is linked tenuously with one drop rule you spoke about.

[FrenchieCat]

45. No, I don't think

that denying whiteness in one's comportment has much to do with one's possible mixed heritage within the Black community. I think that most American Black people/African-Americans can claim white ancestory somewhere in their bloodline.

In fact, being of "mixed" blood was never considered a drawback that I can recall. Black Folks, for the most part, have not had a problem with this. As proof, I offer that characteristics such as "good Hair", light eyes or fair skin actually have connotated positive attributes of beauty in the Black community.

"Acting White" is a different issue althogether, in my view. It has more to do with terms translated by some in the Black community as acting "uppity" or appearing "snobbish". There is a definite discussion going on in the Black community about this particular issue, which is complex enough in itself.

There is a very interesting recent thread dealing directly with this issue here.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=258&topic_id=288&mesg_id=288

Read it.....as it will provide some insight and the different takes that this one issue generates.

[American liberal]

46. here's where we disagree on "labels"

"...so for some, anything 'but' Black is actually an excuse that assists them in raising themselves on that pole....but in reality, it only helps to confirm and prolong the stigma of self hate that has been encouraged by this White society....and whom more than we would want to guess have bought into."


Coming from MANY heritages by virtue of birth and adoption (Southern black, Northern white, Jewish, German, American Indian, Polish, English, and a sprinkling of a couple of other European countries), I consider myself bi- or multiracial as my way of embracing my entire heritage, which has nothing to do with trying to assert myself as less black than other people of color. Quite the opposite. When I have to fill out forms and there is not a choice for bi- or multiracial, I write in the category and put a check mark in that box.

I understand and am aware of the "one-drop" rule in this country. My brothers all consider themselves black. They are all college-educated professionals who own their own homes, pay taxes, etc., and have each had the experience of being pulled over or hassled by the police for "driving while black."

I use the term African American when writing professionally or to follow style rules for my editing work, but I have never felt comfortable claiming that label for myself. It doesn't fit who I am, because, although I am descended from slaves (my father, who died a couple of weeks ago at the ripe old age of 98, his grandmother on one side of the family was a slave, his grandmother on the other side of the family was a Choctaw Indian), I know nothing more of my African roots personally than what I've read in "Middle Passage" or watched on "Roots." While I am proud of my black American heritage and what we as a people have endured and overcome, I cannot trace my heritage back to the slave ships as other black Americans have been able to do. But that doesn't mean that I deny that heritage just because I eschew the African American label.

I feel like I'm not quite putting my finger on what I am trying to get across about my feelings of the term African American. Here's another angle from which to approach it:

I have spoken with people from different countries in Africa who are black and have learned that many of them are insulted by the label African American, because the experience of black Americans who descended from slaves is far removed from the modern-day experience of black Africans. Therefore, I only use the label for professional reasons or if I need to be PC in my conversations.

I love my perspective. It makes me me. I consider myself to be sensitive and tolerant and accepting of others' differences because I have experienced firsthand what it feels like to be called names because I look different from most of the others in my community. Because I have been followed around in stores or received crappy service in Red states because of the color of my skin, I understand the internalized self-loathing that many black Americans have experienced at some point in their lives. Like how women of color suck in their lips when they pass other black women on the street in unconscious shame (watch for it sometime, if you live in an urban area. It happens ALL the time. I do it myself on occasion.) Or straighten their hair, something else I've never done.

I understand that the incredibly blessed life I have today is based on the legacy of lynchings and sit-ins and hoses and dogs and civil disobedience and that racism is deeply deeply embedded in this country, and, although we have made amazing strides toward eradicating some of its uglier manifestations, we are only two generations removed from the Voting Rights Act and the assassination of JFK, MLK and RFK. I know we have a long, long way to go to shake off the remnants of a 400+-year legacy--blacks and whites. I consider myself and my family an example of the ideal: black or multiracial Americans who are trying to live MLK's dream one day at a time and who refuse to be boxed into society's category of what and who you think we should be.

Mostly, I eschew labels. When I am in a feisty mood and am asked about my heritage (and I'll bet I am asked about my heritage 1000 times more than blond-haired, blue-eyed or afro-haired, dark-skinned Americans), I will call myself an American and turn away to talk to someone else. Other times when I am willing to have a conversation with people about what makes me me, I will call myself an American first then explain the many components of my heritage and why I think my multiracial background makes me especially special in this incredibly race-conscious society.

Someday, the whole world will be brown and we will no longer feel a need to distinguish people by the color of their skin. Until then, I'll keep on keepin' on.

Peace,
AL

[FrenchieCat]

47. I understand where you are coming from....

and I did predicate my statement with "...so for some,..." for a reason.

Also if you read my next post after the one you are responding to, I again state that I cannot speak for others of mixed race....Black or otherwise. In fact, I can't speak for anyone else, period.

You have the right to approach the race issue as you see fit for yourself....cause in the end, it's about what is comfortable for you....

The issue is certainly complex, and I can't claim to have any answers except for my own....based on my experiences.

As the child of an interacial union of the 1950's, I am from the old school and what I have stated is certainly factual in some cases.

Thank you for sharing your story and adding dimension to this topic.

(edited to add)....Actually we share much in common. My now deceased mother-in-law passed away in 2000 at the age of 98. Her father was an ex-slave and her mother was a Chocktaw Indian. The experience of knowing her and listening to her recollection of her childhood past made me realize that those who want to claim that slavery is far in our past are actually not understanding that it was not as long ago as all that. In fact, the Civil Rights act was even more recent. Having met the child of a slave really brought that home to me. Considering that I am just in my mid 40s, it is pretty fascinating to have had that experience.

[Slickriddles]

55. Frenchie Cat putting it all in perspective

I loved this post cause it just indicates how these various labels came about and what they signified at different times. Let me add some stuff from an Irish-German-Scotish- American point of view. I also have taught US history at a Community College and that raise some points. I never refer to myself with all that hyphenated baggage above. But I wanted to say I'm caucasian without saying "I'm white." None of this I think is about race. Many posts upthread have hinted at the fact that race is really not a viable category. As long as people can procreate they are of the same "race." And it quickly gets very confusing. It's mainly based on appearance and therefore is not at all a scientific category.

When I teach I need a name for the group of people brought here, mainly from West Africa, subjected to slavery, then emancipated but subjected to another 100 years or so of legal segregation, and in today's America still suject to oppression in various forms. Sometimes I use African Americans and some times I just use Blacks when I am lecturing. What's important to me is that my students who are mostly white understand that African Americans have a distinct history unlike that of any other immigrant group. In some sense Blacks in America constitute a distinct nationality. I suspect that is in the process of breaking down, but I don't think we are there yet.

[bobbieinok]

35. the term that just really drives me crazy is 'people of color'

[semillama]

38. Wasn't there a great Bloom County sunday strip about that?

I seem to remember a great wordplay on this issue.

It seems to me that "American" or "North American" (Or even "norteamericano") will be the ethinc term for people from NA in the future. I mean, assignation of race in this country is pretty arbitrary based on the shade of their skin. I've seen "white" people with very light, European skin (irish, even!) but with facial shapes reminiscent of some Africans. I've also seen "black" people with very European features.

I think in the future, the norm will be people like Gary Dourdan from CSI.



I mean, I wouldn't mind looking more like him than what I currently look like: a shorter, plainer Richard Dreyfus.

[moggie12]

43. Your point was how he sees himself, not 'label", right?

I got the impression that your question wasn't about terminology (i.e., "black" vs. "African-American"). It was that Senator Obama may see himself as an "American", not necessarily an "African-American", right? I read that Newsweek article too but tossed it out already -- that was the impression I got, too, from reading it: He wants to be seen as not as the "African-American Senator who is the leader of African-Americans" but as "the Senator from Illinois." That was your question, right, whether some African-Americans wil be dissappoitned by such an outlook? I would be very interested hear what DU'ers, especially African-Amercian DU'ers, think about your question.

[msgadget]

48. Why is this important now?

For me it is important to have more liberal people of color in political office because the ones to whom the president gives power work under the misguided premise that race is no longer a legitimate issue in this country.

I won't even get into the 'African American' non-argument because it is not for me to judge the labels people are comfortable with.

Are you from Africa?

[Zinfandel]

57. Would Barack Obama stand up today if he was able to?

I think so...a lone Senator.