Kucinich Supporters: How do you feel about your guys throwing in

[BurtWorm]

Poll question: Kucinich Supporters: How do you feel about your guys throwing in

with Edwards or Kerry in Iowa?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. neither option

Kucinich didn't "throw in" anything with Edwards. Neither Edwars nor Kucinich was expected to do well, so they came up with a one-night strategy to make sure they got as many delegates as they could. Who knew Edwards would do so well?

I chose "other" because neither option is right, imo.

On Edit: I can't stand the idea that Kucinich supporters would naturally choose Dean as a second choice. Why? Dean isn't anti-war now, and has never been anti-war, and his platform is closer to Kerry's or Edwards' than Kucinich's. Plus his economic record is way too right wing for me. Dean's seems more like a Libertarian than a traditional Democrat.

[Sly Kal]

18. by your standards K isn't anti war either

only anti this war, which is what Dean is.

[wheresthemind]

22. you got it wrong...

Dennis was consistent in his opposition to the war, Dean was not.

Dennis is for ending the occupation, Dean is not.

Dennis has been a leader in the anti-war movement for a long time.

[youngred]

2. Pretty lame poll

no good answers.

Would people stop assuming that this was was Kucinich getting revenge on Dean, or selling out, or selling his people out. That's such utter crap as to be ridiculous

[redqueen]

3. Their right to do as they see fit

I thought it was brilliant strategy... help a friend out and keep the field competitive going into NH. I would love to know how much of Edwards' showing was attributable to the help of the Kucinich camp.

I'll bet that's what the other campaigns are thinking about right now! :)

Go Kooch!

[MuseRider]

4. Exactly.

I spoke with a friend who has wavered with DK off and on. He was really wavering about this. I told him that I thought it was brilliant and left him to puzzle for a while. He will be with us till the end but yesterday really confused him.

[redqueen]

5. Good

Nothing tests resolve like crisis, and that last-minute news flurry really had a lot of people genuinely confused, I'll bet.

What the media (and other campaigns) learned last night was that Kucinich support runs deep, and we are not easily flappable. Glad your friend hung in there!

[AP]

12. On CSPAN we saw how this worked. I believe, in the first 5 minutes...

...the K people sent a messenger to the E group and asked for ONE person. E's group gave him up without even questioning it.

By the time that one person got to the K group, 6 or 7 people bailed so the whole group broke up (organizing anti-authoritarian liberal democrats is like herding cats).

Had the K people been a tiny bit more organized, they could have gotten a delegate. I believe Edwards had a few more people they could have let go without losing a delegate, and K could have picked up the Gep people.

[IrateCitizen]

6. No real problem with the Kucinich-Edwards deal

Let's be clear here -- this was a decision that was borne of political pragmatism. You know, that little thing that so many of the "realists" are deriding the "leftists" for not understanding.

It seems that Kucinich understood this quite well with this action. He threw his support toward Edwards not in spite of the Senator's stances on IWR or PATRIOT Act, but rather because of the economic populism that Edwards has been talking up lately. In this sense, Edwards is the other candidate who most closely matches DK's record and rhetoric.

In the end, DK ended up getting a few of his delegates inserted where they would not have been previously. And it is becoming apparent that his #2 goal, after than being nominated (an EXTREMELY long shot in the current political/media climate), is to force a brokered convention that will result in some progressive populism finding its way into the Democratic platform.

IMO, not a bad strategy at all. DK is in this for the long haul. I predict he'll remain in the primaries until the very end.

[plurality]

7. fine by me he's my #2 n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Correct answer is

d) "Loony leftist" Kucinich and "Too nice" Edwards show "Pragmatic centrist" Dean they understand politica; strategy.

All the Kucinich supporters I know of are pleased with the results.

[pop goes the weasel]

9. Why should it bother me?

Caucuses, like primary precinct meetings, involve give and take.

[Tinoire]

10. I'm fine with it

Kucinich supporters have spent months here trying to gently point out that most of is do not consider Dean truly anti-Iraq war and consider him too moderate.

Maybe this will finally put to rest the myth that we're purists. We're not purists- we're looking for the best balance.

The reality is that not everyone sees Dean as the answer to everything. This is a bitter pill for Dean supporters and I'm sorry about it. If I had been at that caucus and I was left standing alone and the Dean group needed one more person, I would have gone to stand with the Dean group (compromising my beliefs that Dean is not really anti-Iraq war, that he's pro-occupation and too Centrist) but the same goes for Edwards supporters or Kerry supporters because those candidates are more liberal than Dean on domestic issues that matter very much to us. Had they needed me, I would have helped them out and I know damn well that if the reverse were true and that there was a group of Kucinich supporters needing one more person, Blm or AP would have walked over to help us out.

I do not fault anyone in this. This is how caucuses work.

We are not sorry that Kucinich is still a viable candidate and that we are willing to do whatever we find morally acceptable to keep him in. We're just playing the game and we're out to win too.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. Some of these "Kucinich sold out" people

are either naive about how politics works or taking disingenuous digs at DK.

There is no such thing as a "pure" politician, and most DK supporters have been around the block often enough to know that. Every single politician in U.S. history that I can think of has made decisions that veer from the purist path.

It's funny that the Dean supporters who were bashing us for being "political purists" for not supporting their guy are now bashing us because our candidate, after more than thirty years in politics, proved himself to be (gasp!) "a clever politician."

I bet that if DK had made exactly the same deal with Dean, thereby dealing with someone who disagrees with him on most domestic issues, we'd be getting pats on the back from the Dean supporters.

[IndianaGreen]

14. Some people call us "single-issue" voters because we oppose the war

but they ignore the fact that we are overlooking several other issues that we feel strongly about. I could post a laundry list of issues that I feel strongly about, including abortion and gay rights, but the war and PATRIOT (they are part of the same problem) are the issues that trump all others.

In other words, there are 10 issues that I disagree with the DLC Democrats, but only one issue that is a show stopper.

[AP]

17. So you'd vote for Bush, but for the war?

List the things you hate about Bush and we'll rank which ones are the most dangerous for America and for humanity and for our futures.

I guarantee you that Iraq is going to fall under a much bigger umbrella about which the other Yes-IWR voters care WAY more than Dean seems to care.

Low wages and regressive taxation are two of the biggest tools for transferring wealth up an increasingly steep and narrow pyramid and Dean couldn't bother to even come up with a tax plan before the first caucus.

That's CRAZY!!!

[AP]

15. For caring to get a delegate, DK is the best kind of politician.

This isn't even a case of purity vs compromise. It's a case of a man doing the job his supporters have asked him to do: to get a platform for his ideas and his message by WINNING.

[AP]

13. I think -- and I hope this doesn't sound like a platitude --

that if I knew I wasn't going to be a difference in the Edwards group, and K needed 6 people to get a delegate, not only would I have walked over to the K group, I would have been running around with the K supporter, herding the cats, and getting the 15%

[jsw_81]

21. Kucinich is not a viable candidate

His campaign was DOA six months ago.

[cheezus]

16. Good strategy

Do you think DK would have even been MENTIONED on TV on Monday had he not made that deal? I see it as a successful manipulation of the cable news cycle.

As far as deal making goes, that's what caucuses are all about. I don't know what's with all the posts bashing the process (sour-grapes dean supporters?), but I love it. It may not be "democracy in action", but it was certainly democratic politics in action. Obviously decisins in the country aren't made democraticly, they're made in committe, made by building consensus, made by compromise, made by people were chosen by people who were chosen by us.

[Sly Kal]

19. Kucinich will get creamed in a few more states

That will be the end of him. I thought it was a weird deal, but
:srug:.
I do know a few Kucinich supporters who were very upset.

[goodhue]

20. No, This Will Go to Convention

http://www.kucinich.us/pressreleases/pr_011904b.php

Kucinich: This Will Go to Convention
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 19, 2004

Democratic Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich had been showing at 3 percent in the polls in Iowa, but topped 15 percent or more in many precincts in order to win 1.3 percent of the total delegates. Had he failed to top a surprising 15 percent, Kucinich would have finished with zero delegates as expected. The polls did little better at predicting the results for the other candidates in the Iowa caucuses, and tonight's results may have raised more questions than they answered about the final outcome of the Democratic nominating process.

"This is the beginning of the campaign," said Kucinich. "We've got 49 states left to go. The media had long ago predicted the winner of the entire process and even the loser of the general election, and tonight's caucuses have the pundits scratching their collective scalps in bewilderment. I moved from ninth place to fifth and won delegates despite the 15 percent threshold.

"The longtime poll leader dropped to third, which some pundits are erroneously crediting to Dr. Dean's status as an anti-war candidate. Dr. Dean did not consistently oppose the initial stages of this war and he has said that he will keep our troops in Iraq for years.

"As I climb higher in New Hampshire and each successive state, and as the situation in Iraq continues to worsen, Democratic support for peace will be reflected in my campaign's success. I predict a brokered convention in July. By the end of this month my campaign will have raised over $10 million, including matching funds, and I'm just getting started.

"As part of my strategy in the Iowa caucuses, I worked out an arrangement with Senator Edwards that may have allowed each of us to pick up a few more delegates. Our supporters, of course, ultimately chose their own courses of action. But none were left with their only strategic choice being leaving their caucus and going home. John and I are friends and I wish him the best. But we have 49 states left to go, and we're each on our own."

For more information: http://www.kucinich.us

For Congressman Kucinich's Schedule: http://www.kucinich.us/schedule.htm.