Please, DUers: Toughen up. Thicken your skins. Lose the naivete.

[BurtWorm]

I understand the disappointment a lot of you are feeling, sort of. It sucks to realize how useless our representatives in Washington are to us--especially to us on the left. But think about it: did you *really* expect anything more than what we got today? *Really?* From the same jelly fish who brought you the Iraq war, the Patriot Act, and all the other wonders of Bush-age politics? From the same jelly fish who brought you John "Jesus Boy" Ashcroft in 2001 and who are on the verge of bringing you Alberto "The Torture King" Gonzales?

You just have to laugh at them all, then hope for the best and expect the very worst. Considering all the good they've done for us in the past, it's truly a miracle that we got anything out of them, let alone a nice little shower of pee on the Republican parade.

[Hobarticus]

1. Yeah! eom

[blondeatlast]

2. True enough, BW. I just wish they knew that WE have enough spine

to go around for them.

[BurtWorm]

4. They need to feel our contempt when they act contemptibly.

But also to feel our appreciation when they earn it. Barbara Boxer, in particular, needs to feel our love.

[ewagner]

3. I wondier if

Conyers, Boxer, Tubbs-Jones and those others who stood up, didn't give us something valuable today.....like:

Bush has now been elected BY CONGRESS rather than popular vote.

Bush's MANDATE is tarnished.

Bush's LEGITAMACY has been questioned.

[BurtWorm]

5. Exactly! This is a teeny tiny bit of payback for that bullshit impeachment

thing they pulled in 1998-1999. They still owe us, with interest.

[jswordy]

8. Since I never wore the tinfoil hat about Kerry...

...and I have been through this kind of process on various issues many times, today was no disappointment to me.

Love your ideas, ewagner. Those are the concepts of someone looking to the future, not bitching about the past.

We need to look to our political future, and now that this chapter has closed, maybe we will be freer to do so.

[Nite Owl]

9. That is what I see

now his man date is tarnished. He so wanted to be legitimate this time and now there is still a ? over his second term too.

[redqueen]

6. Good advice.

Thanks BurtWorm.

[andyhappy]

7. whatever

I am sick of trying to look on the bright side of a piece of shit

screw the democrats.

Bush bends over backwards for his evangelicals but we can only find 1 democrat to put her neck out for us libs.

thank you barbara! I am sorry that your party sucks.

....seriously...what is the bright side to Boxers whole party letting her put her neck out all by herself.

[BurtWorm]

10. The bright side: They forced Bush to be elected by Congress.

Ha ha! He can't even claim popular vote anymore!

PS: You really thought these Congress wienies were going to make you happy? Are you used to being made happy by these Congress wienies?

[blondeatlast]

11. And we nustn't let it be forgotten. Not at all. nt

[andyhappy]

12. ya think?

Maybe us DU'ers think so, but thats about it.

does this mean there is going to be a formal investigation into our voting process?

Seriously, what does it change?

[BurtWorm]

14. It establishes a little ledge for future Democratic actions

against the Republicans. And if you send words of thanks and encouragement to the ones who said even a little FUCK YOU to the GOP, they might get the idea to do it again. If you don't make that effort, then you really can't expect them to make any effort on their own.

[andyhappy]

16. Boxer will always hold a special place in my heart!

I really am proud of her.

but whats up with the rest of the party? Why do they consider it 'political suicide' to stand up for one of their own?

Ask me I think its political suicide to not have a spine.

[BurtWorm]

19. We have to stiffen their spines.

We have to reward them when they're good and let them know when we think they did bad.

[jswordy]

13. "screw the democrats"

Heheheh...

It's OK to run off and pout.

But let me ask you...

What OTHER national party that is truly viable and has a real chance of winning national offices can carry forward any portion of the liberal agenda?

Let me know, and I will join it! I'm disgusted with the Democratic party, too, bigtime. The DNC has to prove something to me now.

But that aside, if we frame our debate under that question above, perspectives change!

[andyhappy]

15. I dunno...

I really dont know. Wish I did...

its starting to seem like voting for a democrat is like throwing away a vote on a green.

I would rather vote my concsience than play politics.

I still want to know what was accomplished today aside from Boxer being left out to hang by her own party.

You can't even get the right to admit the torture thing is messed up...they ALWAYS stick together and thats why they keep kicking our ass.

andy-not-so-happy

[LibDemAlways]

17. "They always stick together"

That's the gist of it. While repukes march in lockstep we have assholes like Dayton speaking against Boxer on the senate floor. It's goddamn shameful that she was by herself and that her colleagues who bothered to speak talked more about the need for election "reform" than investigating and rectifying the fraud perpetrated Nov. 2. As long as the repukes control everything, there will be no election reform - ever.

It, sadly, is going to be up to the people to rise up against these thugs if we are ever going to get our Democracy back.

[BurtWorm]

18. We need more information on how alone she was left, really.

Actions like today's are usually carefully organized to get the biggest bang for the buck. The bang is the hiccup they caused in the Bush coronation, and they accomplished this without endangering any Democrats in the politically precarious Senate. It's kind of brilliant, if you think about it. Of course, it would be wonderful if they'd grow a spine and get as mean as the Republicans do. Maybe if we keep on them, they will. This is a sign that they actually might. But they won't if we don't crack the whip.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. That's what I want.

I want Democrats with some freaking FIRE in their bellies. I want some Democrats who can maybe step back from the repukes enough to see them for what they really are and see that they are not just some opposing party, but a group of people doing dangerous things, such as trying to tear down our civil rights, for crying out loud!

The thing that gets me is the Dems still act like this is NORMAL politics, like this is business as usual and the bushies are NOT business as usual.

And I don't care HOW few Dems there are, I wouldn't care if there were ONE freaking Democratic senator in the WHOLE of Congress, I'd want that one to fight like the devil (and you can fight like the devil and still not get in the mud).

Grrrrrrrrr.

I agree with whoever said it above: I'm beginning to think a vote for a Dem is as much of a throwaway vote as a vote for a Green. And hell, I might as well vote for someone who I know would fight instead of same old same old go along to get along.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. Can someone please just give me a quick objective

run down of what happened? I understand a lot of Dem senators weren't there, but what transpired? I just got on the computer and reading all these threads, I get about 1/8 of the view.

[BurtWorm]

23. Barbara Boxer objected to the Ohio Electors during the Joint Session

when the results of the election were supposed to be approved by Congress. This forced the two chambers to convene separately for a procedural two-hour debate on the reasons for the objection. Several Dems made supporting speeches behind Boxer in the Senate, but when the vote was actually cast, only Boxer voted to object to the electors. I don't know what the vote in the House was, but considerably more Dems there (though probably the same percentage overall) objected. In essence, however, this meant that Bush's EC
"victory" was nullified and he was elected by Congress--only the third time a "president" was so elected. It's historical, in the same way Clinton's bogus impeachment was. In my view, it's a little payback, and it's WAY too early to tell if the Dems will be satisfied with it. The fact that they were willing to rock the boat this much could be a good sign for future actions.

[Bouncy Ball]

24. Ok thanks!

Good summary, I appreciate it!

Well, I guess I'll be sending a check to Barbara Boxer.

[AngryAmish]

22. I've had enough - Our enemies must be crushed

Driven into the ground.

[Bouncy Ball]

25. Thank you, DAMN.

Dems need some fire in their bellies. I know some of us on DU have enough to go around, too bad we can't mail some to some Dems in Congress who seem to need it.