Obama lovers

[Guaranteed]

What is it that you like about him so much?

When someone says they don't like Obama around here, others are quick to jump on them.

But what has he done FOR us, other than the convention speech? Why the Obama worship?

[Guaranteed]

1. Do I hear crickets chirping?? nt

[NYCGirl]

2. I can't say I LOVE him, since I don't yet know much about him,

but I think Barack Obama has enormous promise, and I'm more than pleased to watch his progress.

[Guaranteed]

3. Why?

Why do you even think he has so much promise? What has he done?

[NYCGirl]

7. A great background (like the media pundits are saying today about

Gonzales but without the torture memos :evilgrin:), a good rep, a fine speaker, and telegenic to boot!

[saracat]

6. Promise? He sold us out at the first opportunity!

He said "he wouldn't question the legitamcy of this election" Hesaid "Bush got more votes in Ohio" I can't think why he was speaking.He might as well have spoken for the repugs! He did talk anbout an old women voting and touched on election reform. Big Deal. He is an Ass kisser.Proved in his first speech!

[NYCGirl]

9. What he said was "Bush got more votes in Ohio BECAUSE

voters were disenfranchised". You're mischaracterizing it.

[saracat]

13. No he didn't.He talked about dienfranchised later.

He said he believed Bush won Ohio and he got more votes.

[Radical Activist]

15. Didn't nearly all the speakers?

Why are you holding Obama to a different standard than Conyers who said the same thing and has been leading this?
It looks like you have some other issue with Obama you're not talking about.

[matt819]

21. The issue is not only disenfranchised voters. . .

Indeed, I would argue that the issue is not disenfranchised voters at all. The issue is fraud, but we can't seem to get our head around that one, in the same way that news reports can't seem to use the word torture in connection with the acts perpetrated in Iraq, etc.

The truly sad part about what we've become as a nation is that it doesn't matter. This administration could come right out and admit to fraud. Hell, they can trot out the programmers and demonstrate it on prime time TV, and it won't make a difference. The republicans think it's okay == what's a little fraud among like-minded fundamentalist evangelical christians -- and the dems will somehow try to negotiate a solution.

A somewhat unrelated anecdote. In my twenties (too long ago, I might add), I played Dungeons and Dragons fairly regularly with a group of friends from work. The standing joke at the time was that whenever I had to confront some evil wizard, I wanted to negotiate (at the time I was not a democrat, but clearly the notion was already there). My republican friends (at least I think they were republicans, and that was a time when you could be friends with someone in another party) would do what they could to destroy me, negotiations and compromise be damned. Sound familiar? That's precisely what is going on today. And this country, and the world, is far more hostile and insecure.

[AP]

46. Your post is almost Orwelian. He spoke for five or ten minutes. He spent

most of the time talking about how voters were disenfranchised it. He introduced that part of his speech with the rhetorical device of saying that he believed bush had more votes that were counted. His speech was about how voters whose votes should have been counted never got a chance to cast their votes.

You're admitting that his speech was about this while trying to deny that this is stuff that Obama said.

[Guaranteed]

58. I'll ADMIT that I didn't even see his speech.

But he hasn't gotten good reviews from a lot of DUers. Typically, if it was a good one people here would have rallied behind him.

If someone has a transcript of it, I'd like to see it.

I want to see what he said.

His lack of a "yes" vote, though, doesn't make me feel good, to begin with. His speech had better have been really something.

[AP]

61. That is DEFINITELY Orwelian. It's called the BIG LIE. Repeat something

that isn't true enough times and it becomes true.

Why do you trust people who wont give you the context of the speech, but distrust Obama and everyone else who provides the context?

[Guaranteed]

67. I'm not lying, and I don't suspect that other DUers are, either.

It sounds as if DUers were looking for something that Obama didn't give them.

Further, why don't YOU give me the transcript?

DU united behind Obama after his convention speech. Why wouldn't they this time, unless something was lacking?

[AP]

94. It's strange that you would be the most vocal critic...

...while admitting that you don't know the facts and while relying on the opinions of others who seem to be much less passionate about this than you are.

- you're relying on double hearsay;
- you admit you don't know the facts;
- you're posting way more often than the people who you say are encouraging you to have your opinon.

It's a very interesting set of circumstances.

Incidentally, I actually watched Obama yesterday.

[Darknyte7]

98. Keen observation...

I thought his speech was good. Not great, but good.

[Guaranteed]

100. Sure makes it easy to do that when he votes "nay," don't it? nt

[AP]

101. If the "ease" of making arguments is your primary concern

and the difficulty of supporting them isn't, you're doing just fine.

[Guaranteed]

102. I think maybe actions just speak a whole lot louder than words,

as they say. :)

Still waitin' on all those words, by the way.

[AP]

103. Would that that were the case, because you have a history of Obama's

actions (including yesterday's speech) which you have to ignore in order to make this "easy" argument.

It seems that you're hoping that your words speak louder than Obama's actions.

[Guaranteed]

105. Haven't seen the speech.

Would love to.

He's in a different league, now. Just hoping he's up for it.

Not a good start, though.

[AP]

108. Orwellian.

[dogman]

27. You're joking, right?

He is a new Senator and has said the same thing Party leaders are saying, including the latest party leader and a Senator who is his senior, Kerry. Maybe he still believes what Kerry says.

[mattclearing]

4. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.

I like Obama, but you have to wonder why he didn't step up to the plate for the uncounted disenfranchised black voters in Ohio.

[Guaranteed]

5. Yeah, I wonder about that too,

in PARTICULAR.

On edit: Has he done enough for us already- in TWO DAYS- that we can allow him to fade away into the cowardly obsurity that is the Democratic Party?

[mattclearing]

I like that he's there, but ultimately he has to prove his worth.

I'll be watching, but I can't believe he's the real deal after this. In fact, I'm pretty disappointed in the Party.

This is a great day for democracy, a great day for the people who made it happen, but it does show just how much work still needs to be done to get our party back.

[Radical Activist]

16. Um. he didn't? You mean he didn't speak?

Because gee I thought he did while most of the Senate did not.

[Telly Savalas]

33. Didn't he do that in his speech?

That's the impression I got from reports here. Anybody got a link to the text of it, so we can all decide for ourselves?

If your referring to his failure to vote for the objection, what difference is there between a 74-1 and a 73-2 defeat of the measure?

Furthermore, why is everyone picking on him and not the other 98 Senators who failed to support the objection?

[Orangepeel]

40. because he's the Senator from Illinois?

if you want to hold any Senator to a higher standard than the rest, pick Durbin.

[AP]

48. Orwellian. THAT'S WHAT HIS SPEECH WAS ABOUT!!!!

Where am I?

[mattclearing]

90. Sorry. I meant voting.

I had just gotten back from the rally when I posted this, and we were given the impression that Obama would be voting to reject the Ohio electors. I did not see his speech, or I would not have said this.

[Raskolnik]

8. Look at his record in the Illinois Senate.

And you'll see that it is something to be VERY proud of.

Or perhaps his work in Chicago in registering tens of thousands of voters in the 90's?

Or perhaps the early, vocal, and well-reasoned opposition to the Iraq war?

Need more than that?

[Radical Activist]

17. Thank you! Someone who has a clue

and knows what they're talking about.

[Guaranteed]

37. So, when did he change his mind about the whole black

people voting thing?

[Raskolnik]

44. Now THAT is lovely.

Did you hear Tubbs-Jones in her comments today? Tell me exactly how Senator Obama's comments differed from hers.

She stipulated that this challenge was not meant to overturn the election results. She said that this challenge was about drawing attention to inequalties in the electoral system.

And Obama disagreed with her in what way?

[Guaranteed]

54. I totally agree...but did he do that?

Did he VOTE that way?

[Raskolnik]

77. The point wasn't to "win" the vote.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, in a position of power thought that this vote would go a different way. The point of the Boxer/Tubbs-Jones challenge (which sounds like either a middleweight card in Vegas or a new cop show) was NOT to overturn the election results.

The point, which Tubbs-Jones made very clear in her statment, was to spark a debate about election policy. Tell me how Obama failed in that regard.

[theboss]

50. Oh, that is simply ass-hatish

What would you have him do? On his first day in the Senate, he should strip naked, handcuff himself to his chair, and state that he is not leaving until Kerry is made President?

[Guaranteed]

55. Stand up for black voters and vote with Boxer.

I liked that at least SOMEONE stood up, but there should have been more.

And Obama could have used his star-power to do something.

[theboss]

68. So, it could have been 72-2 or whatever

This wasn't the vote to start his career on. I was impressed he spoke at all. I am sure when real reform comes down, supporting black voters, he will be right in the middle of it.

Give him more than a day to prove himself.

[Guaranteed]

73. I'll be watching him, for sure. And the end result of the vote didn't

matter.

But we needed to show the fascists that we have the ability to stand up to them- that we have principles that we live and VOTE by.

I DO think that Boxer got hung out to dry by her colleagues, and that's a shame.

[theboss]

74. Boxer knew what she was doing and knew the vote beforehand

I am amazed that people think that Boxer was betrayed. She knew all along what the final vote was going to be and probably had no problem with it.

And I think that doing something that had not been done since 1877 shows some chutzpah that has been lacking from the Dems for years. You may not see todays events again until 2133.

[ChiciB1]

10. I Called his office and let them have a mouthful

but I do realize he's rather new. However, he NEVER set himself up as a LIBERAL in any way shape or form. Only as a Democrat. I do wish someone would have stood up for us. I've been calling soooooo many Senators one by one. E. Kennedy's office put me on hold when I told them I was calling from Florida.... they never came back!!!!!

[AmerDem]

11. The only thing he's done

has been to sign a million or multi million dolar book deal. Clearly he showed he was A typical status quo today. Another pumped up inner circle party leader.

I've had enough with my party, Honestly!

[Radical Activist]

14. You don't know what you're talking about

What has he done? He has been a community activist fighting for low income neighborhoods and civil rights in Chicago. He has been a consistent progressive who sponsored a lot of great bills in the Illinois Senate. He opposed the Iraq war early during his Senate primary. He has done a lot of good things and he will continue to do so even if you are too negative to give him a chance.

And today he was one of the few people who stood up to speak out about election fraud in Ohio. I'd say he's off to a good start.

[Withywindle]

24. And don't forget his work on the death penalty...

...and racism in the Illinois justice system. Of course, lots of people worked on that; big big issue here.

What I want to question is why a first-term, in-there-for-two-days Senator has already had so many of his own bash threads? He's been doing good, solid, progressive, unglamorous grunt work in the IL Senate for years, as well as teaching constitutional law at the U of C.

I guess people not in IL think he came out of "nowhere" because he wasn't on THEIR radar and it makes them suspicious. Well, the major alt-weekly here in Chicago did a cover feature on him back in 1995!

[Radical Activist]

31. He was also the Senate sponsor for universal healthcare in Illinois

On progressive issues he was always there.

[AmerDem]

25. where was he today

He spoke so well about Jones and Boxer but than decided to vote No. I really don't need to hear stories of past community service etc. We are talking at this moment. The man is now part of the same inner group of leadership that brought our party to what it is today. When he stands up for things he knows are right without worrying about backlash, I'll start listening again.

Look back on our history. Great people and the gains they made didn't happen because they chose the path of least resistance.

[Radical Activist]

30. What exactly was voting yes going to accomplish?

Obama helped raise the issue by speaking. Few had the guts to do that. I think you're very quick to judge.

[Guaranteed]

36. WHAT WAS VOTING "YES" GOING TO ACCOMPLISH?????

Are you SHITTING me?

You're calling US defeatist??

[reprehensor]

86. Give 'em hell.

Democrats left Boxer standing alone with her single vote. It's a disgrace.

It's also a green light to make it even worse next time.

[Raskolnik]

18. That's just lazy.

And rather silly, given the fact that the information is readily available.

Good luck.

[AmerDem]

26. LOL

Thanks for your empty generic reply. It's so packed with detailed specifics I don't know where to start.

LOL

[Raskolnik]

32. You posted "The only thing he has been to sign a...book deal"

Since you are either unable or unwilling to find information for yourself, lets do a quick review:

Obama was the first African-American editor of the Harvard Law Review. (not much of an accomplishment, so I'd understand if you didn't know about it)

Obama organized and led an effort that registered tens of thousands of people in predominately poor and/or minority areas of Chicago in the early 90's. (once again, I'm sure you're not impressed with that, since you want him to care about elections...)

In the Illinois Senate, Obama sponsored and passed legislation that reformed the death penalty and extended health insurance to tens of thousands of poor children in the state. (man, he reall *hasn't* done anything, has he?)

Would you like me to continue?

[AmerDem]

38. Did Mr. Wonderful stand up today?

I'll give you a list of every other one of our so called leaders highlighting just how wonderfully perfect they are. It all looks superb on paper. The problem is people of real character stand up without worry of backlash or how the opposing group tries to smear them. You see qualities like this are the making of real heros not propped up paper champions!

[Raskolnik]

42. So in other words...

You concede the point that you were full of shit when you said he hadn't accomplished anything other than signing a book deal? If your real problem with him is the vote today, then talk about the vote today. Don't try to dismiss the man's accomplishments up to this point.

"The problem is people of real character stand up without worry of backlash"

Now that's just a childish statement. Two of my heroes, Paul Wellstone and Paul Simon, were unarguably two of the most dedicated, honorable men that ever served in the Senate. You know what? They chose their battles carefully. They stood up for principle when they needed to, and they were able to because they spent their political capital wisely. They didn't come out ON THEIR FIRST DAY IN THE SENATE and pick a fight that they had absolutely 0% chance of winning (and that would prevent them from accomplishing other important tasks). They did that not because they were spineless, but because they had a brains in their goddamn heads and gave thought to something other than if people's feeling were hurt at that moment. God Bless them for that.

I see a lot of Wellstone and Simon in Senator Obama.

[Raskolnik]

34. You also posted: "Another pumped up inner circle party leader"

This is particularly laughable. Go back to the beginning of the Illinois primary. What "inner circle" party leadership put their weight behind Obama? Maybe you're thinking of that juggernaut Rep. Jan Schakowsky? I guess that's inner circle all right.

Obama did have the backing of the Daley machine, though. Wait, I guess that was Dan Hynes. Man, where WAS all that inner cirlce juice last year when there would be twenty five volunteers showing up in a church basement to here Obama talk?

Seriously, do you make *any* effort on your own to figure this stuff out, or do you just make snide comments after you've been foiled in your research?

[Radical Activist]

12. What has he done against us?

I jump on people who criticize him because they do it without basis. On what basis am I supposed to believe he's a DLC sell-out who will let us all down? I guess I should accept that because some people have a negative defeatist personality complex or they are trying to boost someone else instead.

I object because I'm from Illinois and I know something about Barack Obama. I know he was a community activist in poor Chicago neighborhoods. I know he has a solid progressive record in Illinois standing for things I believe in. I know he opposed the war in Iraq early during his primary fight for the Senate, before it was clear if that would get him more votes or not. He is a rock star here in Illinois and the attacks against him are completely without basis in reality.

[Rockerdem]

In 2012, a Dean-like candidate will have some powerful video

There will be ads of Obama proclaiming Bushs victory in OH. It will turn the stomachs of the party activists that staff primary elections. He can overcome it with heavy lifting in the next few years. But if he thinks that the road to the White House is determined by the number of his appearances on Capital Gang (RIP), hes in for a big surprise.

[Raskolnik]

20. "Obama proclaiming Bushs victory in OH"!?!?!?

You say it like Obama put on his cheerleader outfit and spelled Bush's name on the Capitol steps.

Obama *admitted* that Bush won the election. Obama *recognized* that Bush will be the President for the next four years.

If you want your representative in Congress to pick fights they can't win at the expense of the real issue of election reform, then good luck with that. Me, I'm happy as a clam that Obama will be getting real work done.

[Radical Activist]

28. If we're still fighting about whether or not Bush won Ohio

in three years then we're all a bunch of losers. God help us if that happens.

[theboss]

69. I agree

I'm not saying "move on" but at some point, we have to fight a current battle.

[Kilkenny5]

19. Thank you for speaking the truth, Radical

n/t

[Guaranteed]

35. I'm from Illinois too.

And apparently this guy doesn't give a shit if black people don't get to vote in Ohio? How is that progressive?

[Malva Zebrina]

22. It isnot a good idea to fall in love with any politician

to the point of complete and total adoration,ignoring facts while you are at it.

It is NOT a good idea if you think your own integrity and sense of balance takes precedence over the marketing or over the sensationalism of a particular man or woman.

And that goes for any human being one wishes to bestow sainthood upon out of the need, perhaps, to align with the most popular celebrity.

Think for yourself, instead of lapsing into the groupie syndrome.

[jonnyblitz]

60. exactly. n/t

[faithfulcitizen]

23. okay, obama lover here, what did he say/not say...

today, sorry i missed it? is there a transcript?

[karlrschneider]

29. I'm not yet prepared to hate him but I sure didn't like his comments that

he had absolutely no doubt Chimp won. I hope that faint aroma I'm sniffing isn't Eau de Uncle Tom...

[TabulaRasa]

39. I don't know

As he was rising, I thought he might have become an inspiring, progressive leader in the senate, like Wellstone. But after his convention speech, I don't like what I've been seeing. After that, people started talking about him as a future presidential candidate, and he started to behave more and more like a lame DLC insider. He's giving off the vibe of a sell-out, who's more concerned about his political future than anything else... appearing on talk shows, schmoozing with Bush and other dickheads. And as others pointed out, past behavior doesn't always tell you who someone is. I made the mistake of assuming that was true for Kerry. I still thought he was the same man he was when he got back from Vietnam, a man of passion and integrity. He proved that that was not the case though. The Democratic Party has a habit of taking in people with a little bit of decency, and churning out fake-smiling Democratic turds. I hope I don't have to watch that process again.

[IndianaGreen]

41. Obama will end up being another version of Harold Ford

photogenic, smart, articulate and... equally useless!

[Kilkenny5]

43. BO-RING! BO-RING! BO-RING!

The poor liberal left (not Democrats) are screaming tha Obama isn't Bertrand Russell/Amiri Baraka/John Reed rolled into one.

Well, it's not going to happen.

Obama is a consensus maker. Until everyone in this thread realizes this, we will still read the same sanctimonious, inane comments about how "Obama isn't liberal enough" or that "Obama's no Wellstone."

Get over yourself and fight the real enemy: Black Box Voting machines.

[Guaranteed]

57. Did he?

If he's not fighting with us, how exactly should we view him?

[Geek_Girl]

47. I wouldn't compare the 2

Obama is just getting started. Give him a chance, yeah it's nauseating to see him schmoozing the media but so what. Let's see how he votes in the Senate.

[Geek_Girl]

45. I don't know much about Obama

Because he's just starting out. But he's very charismatic inspirational and good looking and :tinfoilhat: I suspect that the democratic insiders in Washington are grooming him to be president. Which is either a good thing or a bad thing I guess will just have to see.

[AP]

49. "Though his potent brand of liberalism is extreme,...

we believe that given the choice between Barack Obama and Alan Keyes, Obama is the best man to represent our state. His experience in the State Senate will serve him well in Washington, as Illinois seeks to reverse a history of being a "donor state" - contributing far more in taxes than we receive back in federal funding."


http://www.journalstandard.com/articles/2004/10/28/opinion/opinion01.txt

[AP]

51. "Obama is more liberal than Senators Kennedy, Boxer, and Clinton!"

Location: United States   Joined: 27 April 2003   Posts: 32   Profile Search Quote


Quote: Originally posted by scott on 30 July 2004


Obama is the Chairperson of the Committee on Health and Human Services. Last year alone, he sponsored 26 bills that passed the Legislature.

What were the bills, I shudder to ask?  I know a bill he held up this year as Chair of the H&H Committee - the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which he also voted against twice while a member of the Senate Judiciary Commitee.  Obama is more liberal than Senators Kennedy, Boxer, and Clinton!


When I first heard Obama was running in the primary, I laughed because I knew he would be in the Socialist Party were it viable in the U.S.  Because of that I expected him to sink fast.   I never dreamed he would dazzle the people so brightly with his charm that they would overlook his incredibly scary voting record.  Illinois is soon to have more liberal senators than Massachusetts.

http://www.illinoisleader.com/discussion/display_topic_threads.asp?ReturnPage=Thread&ForumID=40&TopicID=2708&PagePosition=0

[Guaranteed]

56. I'm glad he's got a good record,

but it doesn't change anything since he's gone national. That's no excuse to start backing down now.

I'm not calling him a failure- yet. I just want him to put up before he gets a big head. No free rides.

[AP]

59. You think the things that motivated him in the past no longer motivate him

?

How does that make sense? Why would he build a record as a liberal only to run from it later?

[Guaranteed]

62. Again, he's gone national. And that would be his, and has been others',

excuse.

You KNOW how the Democrats have been acting. We need to nip this shit in the bud.

They're addicted to cowardice. We need to light a fire under his ass NOW, before he compromises his integrity and boxes himself in like Kerry did.

[AP]

63. That is not a logical argument.

[Guaranteed]

65. I don't care if it's logical or not.

I'm from IL, anyway.

The point is that under a national spotlight some will cower- and they do.

I hope he will not, and we need to make sure that he doesn't.

[theboss]

52. How about we give him a week in office before declaring him a failure?

Good Lord. "He was sworn in yesterday. The world still sucks. Get rid of him."

[lukasahero]

96. Thank you! eom

[jswordy]

112. How about we give him a week in office before declaring him a success?

Heheheh...the jury is still out, folks. i know we are DESPERATE for heroes right now, but...

[AP]

53. Obama on the issues:

The Economy: Obama really, really dislikes Bush's tax cuts, which he characterizes in much the same way people characterized Reagan's tax cuts in the 1980s. He is also an advocate of corporate responsibility, offering corporations incentives for investing in distressed areas.

Healthcare: Obama is a major supporter of single-payer, universal healthcare.

Education: Obama, like most of the Democratic candidates, vehemently opposes school vouchers.

Foreign Policy/War on Terror: Obama very stridently opposed the war in Iraq and favors the repeal of the PATRIOT Act.

Abortion: Obama is pro-choice. His advocacy of female reproductive rights is not as impressive as Hynes', but his legislative record does show some initiative.

Affirmative Action/Gay Marriage: Obama is a strong supporter of affirmative action. His stance on gay marriages/civil unions is not clear. He does support equal benefits for "domestic partnerships."

http://www.gapersblock.com/airbags/archives/profiles_of_candidates_for_senate_barack_obama_democrat/


These three previous posts are all from RW web sites. Are they smarter than liberals? Or is this part of a two-prong attack on Obama. Cast him as too liberal in the RW media and too conservative in the LW media?

[Guaranteed]

64. That is EXCELLENT.

That makes me feel great.

But I want to SEE it. No more bullshit.

No more bullshit.

[theboss]

66. It's been ONE day!!!

Good grief. Are you a Nebraska football fan too? "One loss, coach, and you are out on your ass."

[Guaranteed]

70. Well, then, we should have started yesterday. nt

[ElectroPrincess]

89. Yeah, Go Big Red! Sure, we fire the coach every week but do NOT

quit the team. That's a big difference ... at least in sports, if a coach doesn't win, is does get the axe. <eg>

[ElectroPrincess]

85. There's a possibility he'll change especially if KKKarl Rove gets to him

over a number of years to opt for the republican side of the aisle. :evilfrown: If I were him the LAST person I want to be seen smiling and chuckling with is KKKarl.

[nevergiveup]

71. This is why Conservatives keep whipping our ass

Obama is a breath of fresh air in a tired, old and frustrated Democratic Party. He has only been sworn in for a few hours and there are some here attacking like piranhas. For God's sake calm down and give the guy a chance. In this life you can't always immediately have your cake and eat it too. At this point in the game, we should all be delighted with the cake.

[Guaranteed]

72. What CAKE??? Where's the CAKE??

You're talking about all this cake flying around, and there's no cake!!

That's the point!

And this is NOT why conservatives keep whipping our ass. The NEO-CONS keep whipping our ass because we DON'T do this. We DON'T put enough pressure on our representatives to STAND UP AND MAKE A FREAKING ARGUMENT.

We let them get away with being pansy-asses all the time.

[Kahuna]

79. It's very disturbing. I really am becoming very disturbed..

that the sole black Senator is being singled out for all of this negative attention. Some people need to examine their souls and ask themselves why, Obama is deserving of all this negative attention. Because, I just don't get it.

[kamqute]

75. LOL

We will have a new suppression, not a red suppression, not a blue suppression, but a new, bipartisan suppression effort, which will bring us together and..why are you all in the white hoods staring at me? AH! RUN AWAY!

[jojo54]

76. I don't like him now

after this afternoon's senate vote to uphold the election objection. He and 90% of the other Dems (both House and Senate) that talked said they felt the monkey won the election, but would keep on fighting for the "most fundamental right of the greatest democracy on the face of the earth!" Give me a break - isn't that a little like saying "well the kid shouldn't have set the fire, but he DID have the matches"?!?!

[Kahuna]

78. I find it interesting and puzzling that the sole black senator is

singled out over and over for derision. Can the Obama hatas please explain this obsession with Obama and explained why he who is brand spanking new on the job is being singled out so much?

[jonnyblitz]

80. self delete

nevermind

[Guaranteed]

81. I find it interesting and puzzling that the sole black senator wouldn't

stand up for the black voters that were disenfranchised in Ohio.

[Kahuna]

92. Well, you all need to stop holding blacks up to a different standard..

How about that? Think about it what it says about you that you apply a different standard to a black man in the year 2005. It's not all that pretty when you think about it.

[Guaranteed]

93. I am holding EVERYONE to same standard.

I am ROYALLY PISSED at EVERY SINGLE ONE of our representatives who sit there, day after day, and let our country become FASCIST.

I rail against them ALL. I am SICK of this.

[Kahuna]

97. But you didn't post a thread about the others. You specifically..

singled out Obama. And I don't recall seeing you specifically calling out the others.

[Guaranteed]

99. This was in response to another thread in which Obama had

been brought up and people all started defending him as if he was the savior.

I, personally, thought that was odd, considering that he hasn't done a damned thing for us yet.

So I made this thread- which is NOT a "call out" thread, actually. Read the OP. Maybe answer the question?

And, for the last time, I rail against all Dems who aren't pulling their weight, which is just about all of them right now.

[ecstatic]

83. Same reason why there is only one black senator on the Dem side

And the same reason why *some* Dems are now trying to crucify the only one we have.

[ecstatic]

82. Don't hate Obama, hate Kerry

He is the one who was in the Senate for 20+ years and who failed to report for duty. Obama is brand new. Why do you want him to stick his neck on the line for spineless Kerry?

[REP]

84. It's Not For Kerry -It's For the Party (and the Country)

Personally, I think anyone expecting Obama to stick out his neck on this was letting their hopes get in the way of the reality of the man. I'm not saying anything against him - he seems like a decent man, but not the firebrand some may have hoped for. Nevertheless, protesting the certification of the vote really isn't about Kerry the man or even Kerry the candidate, but as the Democratic Party's candidate and the unfairness of the elections.

[bklyncowgirl]

87. Can we give the guy a little time to build a record before we bash him?

So Barak Obama went along with all over Senators save one and voted to certify the election. Now people are all over his case.

I would have loved to see all the Democratic senators vote to deny Bush. It would have made a great statement of opposition but that did not happen. I would have loved to see Obama break ranks and vote with Boxer but that didn't happen either. I imagine, given the attitude of the leadership toward this that he was under a great deal of pressure to vote the way he did.

I'm not willing to write the guy off after this one vote. Let's see what he does in the next couple of years. Proclaiming one politician to be the answer to our prayers and then trashing them if they disappoint in the slightest is not a good way to build a party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. Too Many People Here Have A Masada Complex

eom

[Guns Aximbo]

91. I like him

I've met him and like him but he's a noob. He needs a lot more time (2 terms before he's ready for a run for higher office.

Also, Don't forget, their has never been a President elected who came from the Senate.

[NYCGirl]

95. John F. Kennedy was a senator when he was elected President.

But that was a long time ago.

[mtnsnake]

104. Here's why I like Barack Obama. It's very simple:

I like him not so much for what he's done for us yet, but for the future hope he gives us. I like him because he speaks like no other Democrat speaks. In the few times I've heard Obama speak, I've come away with hope, inspiration, and a sense of clarity...which is a far cry from listening to most of the other ones, with the possible exception of Clark. When Obama talks, I know what he stands for, period, and I like what he stands for. Let's just say that his speeches invoke the opposite reaction from Kerry's, which either put me to sleep or left me wondering WTF?

After Obama's convention speech, it was all downhill, AFAIC. I don't know if Obama will qualify for President or VP in the next 8 or 12 years, but right now I'd like to see someone tell me who gives a more inspirational speech than he does...and more hope for our party. Anyway, that's why I like him.

[ThorsHammer]

106. Well said; to me he just has that intangible "it" to stand out

[Throd]

107. How quickly we devour

those who stray from our ideological purity.  The "lefter
than thou" types around here are ready to show this guy
the door when what the party most desperately needs are new,
electable faces.  I believe that Obama and others like him
might bring more fence-sitters into the fold.  Had he given
some fiery denunciation he would have squandered his
credibility with much of the country and forever be
marginalized as a crackpot by the media.  Being pragmatic wins
in the long run.  Can't we all at least wait and see a little
while before a referendum on his performance?  I'm tired of
the same old dinosaurs.


Oh yeah, since I'm new here, could someone tell me what
ROTFLMAO stands for?  Y'all use a lot of acronyms.  It took me
a while to realize BBV wasn't Block Buster Video.

[Withywindle]

109. ROFLMAO

Rolling On the Floor Laughing My Ass Off.

Which is what most of this thread would be making me do if it weren't also making me sad and annoyed.

[propagandafreegal]

110. Obama wants to PLAY the game nm

[Zhade]

111. The hype?

A little early to even be able to judge, methinks.